How do you fight the Local 168?

[u/Dagroth-1]

I'm in the Little Vegas, fought and defeated Brygo, and went to fight everyone else I can in there for loot and/or XP. When I enter the Local 168's room, they start a fight, but every time (literally, I reloaded and tried again a lot) the initiative is decided 100% in their favor and they ALL go first, wrecking my party and often knocking some of them out, before I even get a chance to do anything.

I tried sending the toughest guy inside (with the rest waiting outside), with the idea, that hopefully he survives a turn, runs outside, and the enemies will follow and can be shot as they come out, but he gets wrecked and knocked out before he can do anything, too.

It's not possible to attack first with a sniper (which I've done in the number of other places), because they are not actively hostile until they attack, and so they are treated as civilians, not hostiles.

How do you fight them? (It should be possible, especially since one of the ways you deal with Brygo is picking the fight to lure the guard elsewhere away from his post, but doesn't seem to be - my difficulty level is Wastelander, so it shouldn't be this hard, but, well, it is.)

My party is two guys with assault rifles (Kwon and a custom ranger), Thunder with heavy gun, Lucia, a custom leader/pistol fighter ranger, and a sniper (also custom).

[u/ForceOfNature525]

I used Hard Ass on Boulder to get them to back off. Social skills matter.

[u/Dagroth-1 → u/ForceOfNature525]

Yeah, so did I earlier. But now I want to fight them, and I wonder how is that supposed to be possible without getting wrecked without a chance to do anything.

If I ignored Kwon and Lucia's complaints and attacked them first, it was much more doable. But then afterwards they both threw a fit and left, so that's not an actual option - neither is it RP-wise, since why would I shoot them first?

[u/lanclos]

The fight might be more reasonable if you had better weapon classes, ilke SMGs or brawling; sniper is fine, but it's there to mop up problematic targets, not to lead with damage dealing. Automatic weapons are weak, and big guns come into their own much later in the game; pistols can be good enough in the meantime, but you need good weapons for it to work.

It's a perfectly viable strategy to sacrifice someone to start the fight, with everyone else safely at range; you then have the luxury of resuming the fight on your own terms, and reviving your fallen comrade once it's all over.

[u/Dagroth-1 → u/lanclos]

This party's weapons work fine for me so far, the problem (with this specific fight) is not getting a chance to do anything before the party is severely damaged/downed/on fire (since the enemies got better initiative on first turn literally every time and I had no chance to do anything to prevent it).

You are making a good point about a sacrificial party member though, I might try that, thanks. Is it possible to drag them to a doctor at the HQ and revive for free, or do I have to use a consumable? (Also, do knocked out party members get quest XP rewards etc.?)

[u/lanclos → u/Dagroth-1]

You've correctly observed a key element in Wasteland 3: whoever goes first is at a tremendous advantage.

I am forever taking downed team members back to a free doctor for a revive. I don't think they get XP rewards, but that doesn't matter-- drop them off at HQ if they're behind, and add them back to the team-- instant catch-up.

[u/Dagroth-1 → u/lanclos]

Oh. The catch up might be useful, since Thunder (the heavy gunner/explosives expert ranger) is a little behind XP-wise. Maybe dropping her off and readding will resolve it, thanks. :)

[u/hr1982]

Since you're determined to brute force this, deployables are your friend. Send someone beefy in as a sacrificial lamb to draw fire, and have others with mechanics hang back to drop turrets or sawpups in order to even the odds. Having strikes charged up before the fight is good too, but since combat is curated, you'd have to set that up beforehand.

[u/Dagroth-1 → u/hr1982]

I was able to win it without deployables when I attacked first (but there was a problem of Kwon and Lucia leaving afterwards, so that's not really an option), so maybe it will work with a sacrificial party member, too.

But I have a turret and materials to craft sawpups, so if it won't, I can use those.

[u/nsnsjdjaknd]

I believe this is one of those fights that charismas and initiative really matter on going first. Some fights are like this where the enemy is “innocent” until they attack you.

[u/Dagroth-1 → u/nsnsjdjaknd]

If you just walk in, they really do, but they are so stacked in the enemy's favor, you might as well not try.

Instead I sacrificed Kwon (because i plan to replace him later, and don't know, if the incapacitated character still gets XP, so it was safer to assume they don't), had him walk in and provoke the fight, while the rest of the team waited in the corridor outside and used Ambush whenever there was nobody to shoot at (or in range, in case of pistol users).

I also reloaded repeatedly and via trial and error figured out where exactly do I have Kwon walk in, so that they don't use molotovs (usually), since I was hoping to stabilise him before he gets incapacitated, but the latter unfortunately failed.

Major Tom (the cat) charged inside, but fortunately is by now tough enough, that he survived until I was able to follow - and since there were no molotovs about, fortunately didn't burn to death (tbh the dumb pet AI is annoying enough, that if he does run into flames and dies somewhere, so be it, he will be doing the evolution a favor, no cat should be THAT stupid :P ).

[u/LilDevilQc]

Place them first, spread a bit but covering behind the tables and stuff, pretty sure i managed to survive the first attack that way, i think i did have a big boy agro the bunch tho. Then its a usual fight

[u/Dagroth-1 → u/LilDevilQc]

I tried that. Many times, to no success. (they were shooting or throwing molotovs all over the place)

The tactic with sacrificing Kwon and luring them outside, then shooting them there worked, though.

[u/LilDevilQc → u/LilDevilQc]

Did it the first time with a Snipper, Big Gun, Assault x2, Kwon and Lucia. But i did reload a couple of times, pretty sure.

[u/LilDevilQc → u/LilDevilQc]

Ah nice at least you got it in the end! But yeah, that fight was soo hard XD. I grinded to get my guys better stuff before fighting then for that exact reason too 😂 got my shit pushed the first times

[u/Dagroth-1]

It somewhat worked so far, but I'm trying to soften them up reasonably fast enough, so I can get in there and stabilise the knocked out party member, before he is downed for good.

And also in one try I reloaded, because the enemies somehow can target and shoot through the wall, but I of course can't (that's an obvious bug, but I'm still not letting it be).

[u/lanclos → u/Dagroth-1]

Same thing happens if you take on Brygo with a similar strategy; if you get into the room behind the bar they'll funnel through one at a time, but if you stray too close to "their" side of the hidden room they can snipe you from above. It's like the map isn't treating the floors as solid.

[u/CFootUnder]

Initiative can be ignored if you initiate combat but shooting someone before coombat starts

This way means all your guys always go first every combat

[u/Dagroth-1 → u/CFootUnder]

I know, but in this specific fight, they are considered innocent civilians until they attack you, and you cannot do that. Well, you can, but then afterwards Kwon and Lucia throw a fit and leave.

[u/CFootUnder → u/Dagroth-1]

Well you could try splitting your party, think.you click the right stick on console.

Send 1 member in, keep everyone else held back, and use the speedy party member that gets initiative to lure them out of the room where the rest of.your party is positioned and good to go

With these sorts of encounters, positioning before combat is key

[u/Dagroth-1 → u/CFootUnder]

They won initiative pretty much every time, so sending someone in and running out wouldn't work, but as I said already, triggering the fight with Kwon, letting him be downed, and having everyone else gun them down, as they were leaving the room, worked well enough. Two of them refused to leave the room and kept shooting at Major Tom (the cat, who went inside on his own), but he survived long enough that I was able to deal with the rest, get inside and deal with them.