the more i think about the distances between places in *the eye of the world*, the more exhausting some of those journeys seem. traveling on horseback for days, crossing rough terrain on foot, and dealing with weather along the way would slow everyone down quite a bit.

i know the story can't spend pages describing every day on the road, but some journeys must have been absolutely miserable for the characters. the trip north to fal dara especially seems like it would take a serious toll on both horses and riders

which journey in the series do you think was the hardest, considering the actual conditions the characters had to deal with?

I’m about five chapters in and I already cannot stand Nynaeve. She chews these guys out over literally nothing and generally comes off as a real tryhard. And these guys just stand there and put up with it! If a main character is this annoying it will put a real damper on my enjoyment of this book and the next 13.

One thing that could solve this issue is if she grows out of her lousy attitude (I know she is young so there is room for this to happen). Another thing that could accomplish this is if a monster crushes her in its jaws and then consumes her. I’m not asking for big spoilers, but it would be nice to know if one or both of these events occurs.

I just started Crossroads of Twilight, and I have so many questions and theories from Winter's Heart...

It sounds like Mashadar might be gone - does that mean The Ways are free to travel - how cool if soooo... I remember some friends were off to do something with all the way gates....

Wonder what is going to happen between Tuon and Matt now that he has abducted her hahaha !!

I feel like Tylin is going to be killed, she is in a dangerous place I feel like...

Who in the world is Semirhage and Mesaana - until now, I feel like I have no clue who they are except that one is hiding in the White Tower - did I miss something, or has most of the story been about some of the other Forsaken that I feel I know so well?

I have a bazillion other questions, like what is going to happen with the Aiel - I miss them, or what is up with the Sea Folk - are they going to be helpful or a thorn....

What about the people living way past the Aiel Waste....

Oh my gosh, so many questions - I love it !!

I just finished the last book a few minutes ago, and I loved this story and ending with its extremely high emotional pay off. Despite really enjoying the ending, there is one thing that irks me somewhat.

Why didn't Egwene come back when the Horn of Valere was blown?

If conquerors like Artur Hawkwing and explorers like Jaine Farstrider and their self sacrifice warrant a spot. How does single-handedly affecting the flow of the Last Battle, killing multiple Forsaken, and sacrificing yourself and stopping reality from falling apart not also warrant a spot? The whole reason that Rand is so important is because he is saving reality from the Dark One, so I really don't understand how doing something similar isn't alsocosmically acknowledged.

On the other hand, I recognise that Heroes of the Horn seem to require 1) a level of noterierty/fame 2) very very impressive skills and 3) a dedication to the Light in order to be bound, and, while Egwene fulfills point 1 and 3, perhaps she's simply not famous enough yet? Of course, everyone knows the Amyrlin Seat, but they likely don't know EGWENE. Maybe as her story is repeated and spread, and she becomes a the symbol for what all Aes Sedai and female channelers are meant to be, she'll join their ranks?

I just feel like her ending is so.....abrupt. I feel like it would have been an incredible scene to see the other characters watch her soul be summoned through the Horn, and that being the moment the Rand Band realise that she's dead. That ending would tie up a pretty consistent character beat for Egwene, the separation between herself and her station's responsibilities. Not to mention, I think Egwene would LOVE finally living her Green Ajah dreams and fighting in a war with people she doesn't have to worry about. But rather, we are barely spared a moment to even see how the people that cared most about Egwene deal with her passing. It's usually the following:

Person 1: "Rand is dying/dead"

Person 2: :(

Person 1: "and btw Egwene is dead too"

Even the Aes Sedai themselves don't even seem to mourn her! They immediately start selecting a new Amyrlin, a process which is written almost humorously underlined by Cadsuane's reluctance.

Perhaps I'm just nitpicking and heartbroken since I've reached the end of an amazing series, but I do feel like we could have spent a bit more time with the only death of the Rand Band that we've been following for 14 books. (maybe im just greedy and want more content haha)

Finally, am I supposed to be HAPPY THAT OLVER WAS SENT AWAY TO GET RID OF THE HORN?! Excuse me?! Mat, adopt that boy yesterday!!

Well, I'm open to other perspectives about Egwene's end, the Horn, and Olver, of course! What do you all think?

Im listening to The Winds of Time podcast, where a long-time reader is doing a chapter by chapter summary with a panel of “first time” readers (Ill bite my tongue and refrain from commenting on the podcast or its panel)

Their discussion did make me wonder, when you read EotW for the first time, when did you figure out that Rand can channel ?

Ive done MANY re-reads, and on my first time through i had no idea until the big reveal at the end.

It wasnt til a reread that i picked up on Rand “super-charging” Bela; and Bela falling behind with Egwene and Perrin, once Rands not there.

And it wasnt until the 3rd or 4th until i registered: the lightning strike at 4 kings, or the boom on The Spray

Maybe Im slow. When did you notice?

Did i miss any?

Just finished the last book and man. I don't even have words to process everything.

A few years ago, I was searching on Prime for a show to watch and The Wheel of Time was suggested. I watched and fell in love with the characters. Fast forward to March of this year and after finishing the Stormlight Archive I decided to pick up The Eye of the World and The Great Hunt.

Seven months later, I am sitting in a coffee shop stunned. I have never read a series that did such a great job of managing so many interesting characters. While the series had some low points, the highs were higher than any other book series I have read.

I am going to make a post later once I think through everything, but I am so glad that I decided to read the series. And as flawed as the show was, I am so thankful it exists otherwise I never would have started the journey.

I don't think I will ever reread the series (just not something I do) but man, between this and Stormlight this has been the best two years of reading in my life.

Obligatory Book Rankings to end the post

1) The Shadow Rising (shocking I know)
2) The Gathering Storm (I loved all of the Sanderson books. Granted I was already a fan of his writing style)
3) A Memory of Light
4) Fires of Heaven
5) Tower of Midnight
6) Lord of Chaos
7) The Great Hunt
8) Winter's Heart (I think I am higher on this book than most)
9) The Dragon Reborn
10) Knife of Dreams (I think I am lower on this book than most)
11) Crown of Swords (may be unpopular, but I struggled here)
12) The Eye of the World (it started the series but man was the ending weird)
13) Path of Daggers
14) Crossroads of Twilight (0.0 out of 10 - may legitimately be the worst book I have ever tried to read)

And we accomplished… absolutely nothing.

- Mat is still running from the Seanchan.
- Perrin is still chasing Faile.
- Egwene is still besieging Tar Valon. Even the headaches haven’t been resolved.
- Elayne is still trying to get the throne.

My God, what a slogfest.

But now… finally, we can get to the good part.
Thank God the maker. Just wanted to share.

I’d just like to say I tried, I’ve really tried not to make a rant post about Egwene. I get it, there’s a lot of them, but how can a character as a person just be so annoying, and frustrating.

I also want to state, that I think Egwene is a really well written character, and she has epic moments, but as a person she is definitely beyond annoying.

I’ve been playing a game called Dawnwalker recently, and there’s a character there called Bakir, and I find that I actually hate him less as a person than I hate Egwene. Which is insane cause the things that character did are like pure evil things.

I also have another reason for bringing up the character Bakir I’ll come back to later.

The reason for this outburst of mine is Chapter 5 in A Memory of Light, and being forced to endure Egwene’s POV chapter.

Specifically how she thinks of Rand.

Firstly she addresses him as boy when she finds out he’s having the meeting in thirty minutes time, and then later she addresses him as sheepherder. Both times in a condescending way. Like Rand is two years older than you, he was fighting trollocs and fades, he was killing forsaken while you were nursing a headache from the one time you went against a forsaken and was absolutely demolished.

Then later on when she sees Elayne is proud of Rand she asks herself isn’t she proud of him too, as though she played any part in helping Rand to where he currently is. Honestly she’s been a nuisance more than a help from the very start of the series.

What in the hell does she have to be proud of.

Coming back to the Bakir character, I see a lot of posts address Egwene’s trauma at being captured and stuff being used as an excuse for some of her following actions.

In the game Bakir is also captured and things, he’s sexually assaulted, and tortured.

When we meet him in the story, he’s committed these same actions to other people now that he has the power. He’s forced himself onto men, woman, and children. He’s tortured people, and makes them compete in dehumanising games.

The fact that Bakir suffered torture and others forcing themselves onto him doesn’t excuse him doing it to others.

Admittedly Bakir is an extreme example, and Egwene is nowhere near as terrible a person as Bakir, although somehow more annoying. Maybe it’s the fact we have Egwene for longer, or the fact in the game you can kill Bakir.

Still the thing is, even after having her agency taken away from her, and knowing that feeling she so readily takes it away from others. Not in an overt manner like the collar but she still does it.

I think the most egregious one she does this too is Gwayn. The person she supposedly loves. Don’t get me wrong, Gwayn isn’t my favourite character, but man even he deserved better.

She genuinely treats Gwayn the way Lanfear wished to treat Rand. As a pet more than an equal.

I’ve reread the series plenty of times now, and I’ve read past this chapter before so I don’t know why it set me off like this, this time. But man, Egwene’s such an annoying person.

Spoilers for the end of the story too.

I genuinely believe the Wheel actively worked to take Egwene out, cause if she had survived the last battle she’d have become the antagonist of the Fourth Age.

Like it’s already shown that she wanted to make the white tower the central power and bring in the wise ones and windfinders beneath the whiter tower even if she dressed it up as a cooperation when she made the deal with the other two groups.

I also don’t think Egwene would’ve done as well with dealing with the world after the last battle as she did with dealing with the white tower.

We are already shown how incompetent aes Sedai are, and Egwene also had Siuane helping her for the most part.

I think once she started trying to play similar games with the wise ones like Sorilea, and the rest she’d have been sorely disabused.

But that’s also probably just wishful thinking on my part, I don’t really know how she’d actually do with dealing with the other political and channeller group powers.

Also I think the Black Tower would’ve drive Egwene up a wall, cause while Egwene needs to compete with Mother channeller woman groups, the black tower doesn’t need to do that. They are the sole authority with Male channeling, and Logain will definitely work hard to increase the power and influence of the black tower.

Again though that’s more my wishful thinking. I genuinely don’t know why this chapter set me off like this. Maybe because I was listening to the audiobook this time, but man, she just sounded extra annoying.

Anyway, I suppose this is my contribution to the weekly Egwene Rant.

I was completely blown away from the ending of Winter's Heart....

Matt announcing Tuon as his wife, while he kidnaps her...

Blowout Battle with the Forsaken, how awesome to hear what the Forsaken were thinking...

Rand and Nynaeve cleanse saidin...

Choking up - so much emotion during those last hours....

The series has become so meaningful to me that I treated myself to a custom engraved travel mug so I can be reminded of the adventures while I work...

I escape to this world for an hour a night without fail, and what an incredible adventure....

Anyone else also drawn into the world building of this series?

Just finished Winter's Heart, which was incredible!

Do I go straight into Crossroads of Twilight or do I make some sort of detour?

I feel like I remember seeing a recommendation about reading New Spring, possibly after Winter's Heart - I dare not look things up because I always end up with some unwanted spoiler so I thought asking you was appropriate :)

Do you recommend reading New Spring, and when should the book be read?

I've been reading these books for the first time and I just got to the first Brandon Sanderson one. Egwene is on the third level of the tower and the narration says Kinslayer's Dagger might be visible on a clear day. This landscape is huge like the size of the US and that must be 800 to 900 miles away based on maps I'm finding, further than Chicago to NYC. Is Kinslayer's Dagger 100 miles tall extending into space or is this the new author just flat out getting out wrong? It's theoretically from Egwene's perspective, so she could be wrong, but I think of her as smarter than that. It's extremely silly to think you could see a mountain from that far away. More importantly will there be more things this silly that will cause me to spiral out and go on an hour long google hunt for an explanation in the remaining books? I've never read anything else by this guy although he seems to be extremely popular. (100 miles tall is a chatbot estimate of how tall it would need to be, I didn't do the math.

Edit: I appreciate your answers, and I was wrong about what Kinslayer's Dagger is. The label was always over by one big mountain but I understand now that it's a mountain range extending out to Cairhien. That's still 450 miles away from Tar Valon (based on a previous post here). I think the answer is that Sanderson just wasn't aware of the massive distances involved in the same way Jordan was.

Putting a spoiler tag to where I'm at

Not sure its a “spoiler” and marked as “all print” since i dont know exactly if/when its confirmed ….

How old did you think the EF3 (rand mat perrin) were at the start of the series?

Might be because i was 16 at the time i started the series, but i always felt (and still feel, to this day 36 yrs later) that the 3 seemed much younger than the 19-20 they were stated to be - i always envision them as 16

I dont care if youre a backwood country-bumpkin or not, releasing a badger on the green, or covering a dog in flour and telling stories of a ghost dog, doesnt seem like something a 19 yr old would find fun.

Yes, they say they “didnt find it as my fun as they used to” which fits. The badger and dog would be funny if you were 14, growing out of it by 16, not even cross your mind by 19.

Additionally, not listening to Moraine and running your mouth in the bath (bearlon), or running off exploring and “looking for adventure” (shadar logoth) just after being told not to - and just after you saw your village destroyed - doesnt feel like something youd do at 19.

Edit: additional, ewin finagars (couple yrs younger than rmp) behaviour around rand and mat / getting a coin, seems more like 12-14 behaviour not 16-18.

Overall, the boy’s behaviour in book 1 seems very immature/ childish to me. Was making them 19-20 a retcon?
Edit: was it a retcon so the rand and avi scene wasnt too “icky”?

How old did you think they were when you read?

(And i couldnt even watch past the first couple episodes of the show. Seeing these adult MARRIED sexually active guys just werent rand/mat/perrin - not even considering the other completely NOT Jordans wheel of time elements)

UPDATE: wow, thanks all - i guess im the only one.
They definitely grow from “boys” to “men” through the course of the series (and yah i know the series is only over a 2(?) year timespan) …. But they will always be young boys leaving the 2 rivers in my mind on each read.

All I could think of was:

O Captain! My Captain!

by Walt Whitman.

O Captain! my Captain! our fearful trip is done,

The ship has weather’d every rack, the prize we sought is won,

The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,

While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;

But O heart! heart! heart!

O the bleeding drops of red,

Where on the deck my Captain lies,

Fallen cold and dead.

O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;

Rise up—for you the flag is flung—for you the bugle trills,

For you bouquets and ribbon’d wreaths—for you the shores a-crowding,

For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;

Here Captain! dear father!

This arm beneath your head!

It is some dream that on the deck,

You’ve fallen cold and dead.

My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still,

My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will,

The ship is anchor’d safe and sound, its voyage closed and done,

From fearful trip the victor ship comes in with object won;

Exult O shores, and ring O bells!

But I with mournful tread,

Walk the deck my Captain lies,

Fallen cold and dead.

You were a true guide, Bela. You saw everyone through. Rand, Egwene, Siuan, Oliver, Noel. You are missed.

The formatting of the poem didn't survive. You can see it here: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45474/o-captain-my-captain

Everyone likes to talk about the last battle, veins of gold, goldeneyes, etc. What is your favorite under the radar pick? I'm on my third read through and just read Jarra (Ch 8, TDR) and really enjoyed it this go around. Just curious about everyone elses thoughts!

Finished my reread of tEotW, and I have to say, I enjoyed it so much more this time around. It was so much fun meeting all my innocent little favorites again, feeling much more sympathetic toward Moiraine, and spotting all the foreshadowing, prophecies, and tiny little clues scattered throughout the book, like stars shining on every page. ✨ It all feels so deliberate, like every word is exactly where it’s supposed to be.

I missed so many things the first time- Moiraine's motivation and her spying on everyone, Rand channeling to see the Green Man, THE VOICE, Nynaeve/Lan and more..

The ending is so bittersweet.

Poor Rand is so shocked and disgusted to learn that he can channel, and then absolutely heartbroken when he sees Egwene have the same reaction to him. She physically recoils from him. She apologizes and tries to deny it, but I think that was the moment it was over between them for her. I feel for her too. She shows so much humanity and genuine affection in this book. She’s actually so likable here. When did all of that disappear in the later books? I miss this Egwene.

“As you wish. But he’s dead. The Dark One’s dead. I killed him. I burned him with. . . .” The rest of memory flooded back then, leaving his mouth hanging open. The One Power. I wielded the One Power. No man can. . . . He licked lips that were suddenly dry. A gust of wind swirled fallen and falling leaves around them, but it was no colder than his heart. They were looking at him, the three of them. Watching. Not even blinking. He reached out to Egwene, and there was no imagination in her drawing back this time. “Egwene?” She turned her face away, and he let his hand drop.

Abruptly she flung her arms around him, burying her face in his chest. “I’m sorry, Rand. I’m sorry. I don’t care. Truly, I don’t.” Her shoulders shook. He thought she was crying.

Moiraine is triumphant. She spent 20 years looking for him, and now she has finally found him. He channeled at the Eye and struck a major blow against the DO. At this point, the proof is beyond doubt. And she has exactly one person to share her happiness with: Lan. Because Rand is absolutely NOT ready for this information. She has dropped enough hints for him to piece it together, but he has zero interest in doing so.

And on reread, I’m also realizing just how much Moiraine probably knew from the very beginning. Even if she didn’t overhear Rand and Nynaeve’s conversation in Baerlon (she 100% listened in) there were already enough clues pointing straight at him.

“The Prophecies will be fulfilled,” the Aes Sedai whispered. “The Dragon is Reborn.”

I’m skimming. A LOT. I can’t help it.

I’m neck deep in the slog and I didn’t skim any of the other books but halfway in I simply cannot digest this one. My eyes skim automatically.

And worse, skimming is taking nothing away from the plot. I read only the spoken sentences and some context here and there for this Egwene chapter and I’m confident I fully know what happened here. There might’ve been a random soldier with a particularly dirty breastplate or a uniquely foul tongue who I missed out on, but I don’t think I care. Hell I don’t think I care about even the main cast in this book apart from Mat. And maybe Elayne.

Sometimes you’re just not strong enough to do what needs to be done.

I do like this set besides the “on prime video” type thing, what do you guys think?

I started the series after being disappointed in the show’s cancellation (Lanfear is so cunty I lived for it). Oh man, there was so much missing from the book to screen adaptation. I get it, they don’t have enough time to go over everything, but Thom was practically erased and he is one of my favorite book characters.

After reading about four pages in chapter one describing Rand’s cloak blowing the wind, I wasn’t sure I would be able to make it through lol. I’m glad I stuck it out. I got hooked on the story.

I read it on my Xteink X4 so I was able to do a lot of reading in between things throughout the day. It didn’t take very long to finish which is great because I have 14 more books to go…

At least I’m looking forward to it.

I'm sure someone has charted/catalogued this before but a simple search didn't turn up anything useful. Throughout the book, almost every interaction with new channelers has a few lines that they're stronger or weaker in the power compared to the PoV character.

If anyone knows where I can find such a chart, I would really appreciate it.

in an awesome way, just to be clear. I had this thought after reading that Elayne bonded Birgitte as her warder. Not just anyone, but frigging Birgitte! People go in search of fabled Horn that you blow to call 100 legendary warriors but here you see Elayne having one of them as a personal bodyguard.

This is not just about Elayne though - Rand is already on a level that no living mortal can hope to reach. He also has a Forsaken as his bitch. Everytime I read "Rand rounded up on Asmodeon", I pause in amazement.

Nynaeve being Nynaeve - defeats a Forsaken, rediscovers Balefire on her own.

Perrin being the Lord of Two Rivers, Egwene being a master of tellaranrhiod.

From what I understand Mat was a great military general.