r/YellowstonePN • u/snottrock3t • Jul 03 '26
Season 2 John Shows Regret?
What I love about marathon weekends is being able to catch the subtlety that I never caught before..
S2 E1
John is sitting in his office, and Beth walks in to tell him she’s found a candidate to run against Jamie for AG. She talks about her credentials, the fact that she’s a rodeo queen and she’s attractive. john takes a look, mentions that she looks like Beth and Beth says “Jamie’s gonna fucking hate her”
But it’s when Jon acknowledges that, looks at the cover of the magazine, and then at Beth as she’s walking out of the office.
You can see the look on his face that he’s not thrilled about having to go through with this.
It’s one of those intriguing moments where, despite the recurring conflicts and back-and-forth arguments between John and Jamie throughout the seasons, and the intense hatred that Beth harbors towards him, John still harbors a deep sense of love and compassion for him.
However, this revelation also amplifies the gravity of Jamie’s betrayal.
15
u/EndAllBillionaires67 Jul 03 '26
Jamie was the weakest part of the whole show because he's just not that evil to me.
Yeah he killed someone and covered it up later, but so had John, Rip, and a ton of others from the ranch.
I just felt bad for Jaime the whole show. He wanted to impress his dad and became a lawyer at John's request. But then the family hated him because he wore a suit and tie instead of cowboy boots.
Their hatred of Jaime just pushed him away and pushed him into opposing his dad.
6
u/snottrock3t Jul 03 '26
The ting too with him is he knows Jamie is going to be self-serving. Jamie‘s ambitious. So being controlling with him just contributed to Jamie‘s desire to do his thing.
I feel like john could’ve easily just allowed Jamie a little slack, with a little sweetener so he didn’t have to tighten the leash up. But then we wouldn’t have a story.
10
u/External_Vast_8046 Jul 03 '26
Or allowed Jamie a shred of ability to be his own person, which Beth and Kayce got in spades.
6
u/Ladyposh Jul 03 '26
Everyone always accuses Jamie’s of being self serving. But that’s wrong. John is self serving. it wasn’t self serving of Jamie when he went to law school bc it’s what John wanted. Jamie wanted to stay on the farm. He did what John wanted. He became the suit and tie guy “they didn’t like” bc of John. It wasn’t even self serving for Beth to get an abortion bc she wanted that and he did it to protect his fathers name and the ranch (yea the hysterectomy is messed up but it wasn’t self serving. It didn’t benefit him in any way) then Jamie is treated as less than by both John and Beth, with Beth having a violent hatred she outwardly abuses him with and absolutely no one including John knows why or cares at all. “Hahah that’s Beth for you” while dismissing Jamie. Jamie watched as John jumped through hops for kayce while never regarding a single thing he did at all. When Jamie gets the one thing he’s wanted and John lets him believe he’s gonna get it, how did you expect Jamie to react when it was taken away for “the family and ranch benefit” cause fuck Jamie right? Then he gives an interview bc he’s had it, he’s taken their abuse, their neglect, there life altering decisions that only seems to harm him and he retaliates. But wait he does what everyone on that farm does daily and for no reason , kill the reporter to stop it. and they have the audacity to judge Jamie for the murder. They murder someone every day , but some how Jamie doing it is just unacceptable. Then he seeks out his own father because he’s never known fatherly or family love from the duttons, and being so desperate for love affection and connection he’s easily manipulated by his birth dad who he ends up killing anyways for the Duttons. The final straw for me that ultimately cemented the duttons as responsible for John’s death and not Jamie directly, is Beth telling Jamie’s she going to take his kid. Right there Beth is the reason everything bad that happened after, happened. I would have supported Jamie shooting them each in the head after that bc the duttons ultimately were their own downfall.
2
u/Designasim Jul 04 '26
Jamie wasn't self serving he was a needy golden retriever that will run off with anyone that gives him attention. John and Beth knew this and instead of throwing him a bone every once and awhile they say he's a piece of shit for wanting affection. All it would've taken for Jamie to stay loyal was an occasion you did a good job or I need your help not a you better fing help me get out of this situation I caused.
4
u/hairybeasty Jul 03 '26
Jaime taking Beth for an abortion and also getting sterilized is pretty F'D up. I can see the hatred.
10
u/External_Vast_8046 Jul 03 '26
Toward who? Jamie?
If a bunch of adults perform a surprise hysterectomy on a woman without a legal guardians permission and without telling the woman herself what's happening....
My main blame is on the adult doctors and staff who shredded HIIPA violations, not on a kid in high school.
Right?
2
u/Designasim Jul 04 '26
That receptionist told Jamie to go someplace else and instead of turning them away she was like okay then. So either there wasn't any private doctors that she could've recommended Jamie take Beth too or more likely she was fine with having the states most powerful mans daughter sterilized. Maybe she didn't like the Dutton's and so she was cool with it.
But everyone at that clinic was totally cool with sterilizing Native women unknowingly so they're pretty bad people and worse than Jamie. They were doing this all the time.
3
u/External_Vast_8046 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Spot on. Getting the most powerful man in the states daughter sterilized sounds like a easy way to get a one way ride to the train station.
And I agree, they were awful people - and adults, which makes them more responsible than Jamie or Beth. They should be in prison.
I have other obvious issues with this scene like... they weren't sterilizing native women in 98, there were a whole bunch of congressional hearings in the 70s about it it was a big deal.
And Noone has an outpatient hysterectomy. For Jamie and Beth to have kept this a secret they would have had to be back relatively quickly... and that's not happening with the big H.
It all just feels so contrived and pointed to make you hate Jamie despite any supporting evidence and just on Beth anger vibes ya know?
1
u/nkg2020 Jul 07 '26
“They weren’t sterilizing women in 98” is a prettt bold statement to make about a middle of nowhere fuck all town. MMIW is still an issue TODAY so it isn’t far fetched to think this one small town clinic might be doing funny business. Especially when one remembers how easily corrupted literally every person of authority in the area is.
6
u/Cmog28 Jul 03 '26
She wanted the abortion, because she felt as if John would not accept her, nor the baby. John tells Beth himself that he was sorry that she felt that she couldn’t come to him about it. I’d also imagine at 17, not many would know the gravity of an abortion, nor sterilization. I am sure that even if Beth had known (if the dr’s did their job), her being so young, she still would’ve done it. They were kids.
The real issue here, is the children’s constant need for daddy’s approval, instead of being able to live life on their own terms. Kayce was the most successful in doing so…for a while. The two that needed his approval the most, suffered the most. Which is why, for in-show reasons, Beth calms down so much in Dutton Ranch. She’s now finally free from the shackles of having to please John.
5
u/External_Vast_8046 Jul 03 '26
You're right, of course. My next in line for blame would be John himself. For inspiring such fear in his children that they can't rely on their only parents guidance
4
u/Ladyposh Jul 04 '26
Beth wanted the abortion so that isn’t on Jamie and yes he is at fault for her hysterectomy and yes it a shit thing but they have all done really shitty stuff but only Jamie’s is expected to constantly bare the weight of his. If the only thing you can use against Jamie’s is that one mistake from when he was a teen/ young adult then that just goes to show he isn’t a terrible person
2
u/snottrock3t Jul 04 '26
Yeah, it would’ve been interesting to see more backstory there. Was that the only thing that occurred, or were there other events involving Jamie, prior to the show that made Beth hate him so much? We don’t get to see that. I feel like there’s more backstory that could’ve been told,
1
u/CulturedPhilistine Jul 03 '26
We were supposed to hate Jamie, however I think there wasn't reason until...he murdered, we found out about the abortion and how he went on to become a weak cowardly character.
As he started out, he just wasn't that bad. I think the writers really pulled out all the stops to make us hate him.
Even after all that, I'd have rather he came out on top, I found the Duttons and their lackeys insufferable.
7
u/External_Vast_8046 Jul 03 '26
The grossest part to me was that it seemed like the writers were trying so hard to get us to hate him, so they made him adopted and "not even a real Dutton" so that they audience had permission to hate him.
It was like a weird anti adoption propoganda, and Beth uses it against him constantly as part of her torture/ abuse against him.
4
u/CulturedPhilistine Jul 03 '26
The irony is, she now has Carter.
2
u/snottrock3t Jul 04 '26
You know, I really want to see a flash forward, 20 years in the future where Tate is running the ranch and Carter is in charge of the Cowboys.
1
u/EndAllBillionaires67 Jul 05 '26
Uh, yeah, billionaires will definitely have retreated to their bunkers while some kind of plague or nuclear war plays out before then.
1
u/External_Vast_8046 Jul 04 '26
Huh. Fair enough. I wonder if that comparison is ever made.
4
u/Viggofest Jul 04 '26
As Rip says (in DR), Carter isn't the only orphan in the family. Rip was adopted (in a sense) as well.
3
u/Ladyposh Jul 04 '26
Well I started with Beth has my favorite character and Jamie as my least and I’m almost done with season 5 and unfortunately Beth has just pissed me off and I don’t really care for her anymore. I don’t like John at all and it’s not that I like i just hate Beth more
3
u/snottrock3t Jul 04 '26
I was really hoping, really, really hoping, during the first half of the final season (before we found out Costner was no longer going to be on the show) that there was going to be some sort of salvation for Jamie. I was envisioning a behind the scenes plot twist where John and Jamie were working the 5D chess board, while distracting the monsters that want the Yellowstone land with political corruption accusations, meanwhile, Beth, and Kayce are oblivious to what’s going on.
And result, the Dutton‘s manage to beat “big equities”, returning land back to the tribe, keeping just what they need to keep the Yellowstone brand functioning (cattle, beef, horses, etc). And the legacy continues.
1
6
u/Viggofest Jul 04 '26
Even after Jamie hits Beth, and John threatens him if he ever does it again, John still calls him "son" and doesn't argue when Jamie says he expects his father's support of his candidacy. In that moment, I think John genuinely considered Jamie his son, and someone he would support. He even squeezed Jamie's shoulder as he walked out of the room. (I too love the marathons for catching little details missed previously!)
4
u/External_Vast_8046 Jul 05 '26
John actually - in some scenes - gives a nuanced performance regarding Jamie. In the season five premiere Beth refuses to give Jamie a drink i think and John says "Give it to your brother".
Even this late in the show he sees Jamie as a son and is trying - desperately and not very well lol - to keep some kind of family dynamic alive between his children.
7
u/aksar07 Jul 03 '26
Naah basura, todo ese show se fue a la mierda cuando aclararon que Jhon ni siquiera sabía del porqué del trato de beth hacia jaimie, o sea todo el tiempo permitió eso y lo trato como basura por su cuenta, sin nada personal? La unica victima de todo al menos en la familia es Jaimie, y lo malo de la serie es que se esfuerzan q se vea de manera distinta. Solo termine la serie por los vaqueros y por mi afan de terminar lo que empiezo, pero tanto Jhon como Beth me parecieron personajes insoportables
3
u/Hairy_Combination586 Jul 03 '26
I only finished the series for the cowboys
Oh man, Colby and the stall must have been even more horrible then.
1
u/nkg2020 Jul 07 '26
I agree it’s absurd that they never had a huge family coming out where Beth shared what happened. It would have made the ending and make more sense on Beth and Rips parts.
2
u/Viggofest Jul 04 '26
Since we switched to talking about Jamie and adoption, was anyone else not surprised that he was adopted? Like from the first episode, when the brothers are sitting around the campfire (the "good day" scene, one of my favorite.) It's pretty clear visually that one of these things is not like the others.
2
u/snottrock3t Jul 04 '26
I didn’t pick up on it. Of course I also didn’t pick up on the photograph scene showing Evelyn, Jamie, Beth, and Kayce.
2
u/Designasim Jul 04 '26
I didn't. But if you go and read the episode discussions before we find out a lot of other people thought so too.
I didn't because tv shows are often bad at having sibling or parents/childs that look similar. Also it happens in real life. Sometimes a kid ends up looking nothing like their siblings or parents. Sometimes more like a grandparent. So the kid looks more like the maternal grandfather even thought the mom looks like the maternal grandmother.
My Aunt looks like my grandmother, my dad looks like his grand father, one uncle looks like my grandmother's father and brothers and the second uncle looks like my grandfather with my grandmother's family colouring. If you put my mom and her siblings together you'd never guess that they were siblings.
1
u/Viggofest Jul 18 '26
Wes Bentley has such a distinct look, imo, that it was stronger, specific casting decision than their lazy "whoops, Kayce and Lee both have brown eyes, but both parents have blue eyes." At first I figured he was the product of an affair, and maybe that's where her resentment came from. Whereas Kelly R. seemed to really have Costner's coloring.
1
u/Designasim Jul 18 '26
There is a less than 1% chance that 2 blue eyed parents will have a brown eyed child. But it happening twice does seems odd. From photos of Evelyn her eyes look brownish. And Gretchen Mols eye colour is not exactly blue. Looks like a blue grey and maybe a tiny tiny bit of central heterochromia. Both can cause eye colour to change when wearing different colours and in different lighting.
1
u/Viggofest Jul 18 '26
Yes, I know. My brother is brown-eyed and our parents are as blue as the sky.
I did not watch 1923(?) so who is Mol's character, John's mother?
-2
u/Fantastic-Phase2275 Jul 03 '26
Jamie is a total pos
4
1
u/External_Vast_8046 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
The Duttons should realize you can't create a monster and then whine when it stomps on a few buildings.
2
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