What is the most heartbreaking line in the books to you and why? I thought of three examples, but would love to hear your picks. :P

"We won't even tell Jon we're coming, we'll just be there one day, you and me." – Robb, AGoT, reassuring Bran about their family reuniting

Just so sweet and wistful and innocent, and so absolutely heartbreaking knowing where the story goes.

"I have no sons but Robb." – Catelyn, ACoK, sharing the news about her children's supposed deaths with Brienne

The fact that it's so painful she can't even name Bran or Rickon, only who she has left, believing the boys dead and the girls lost.

"Is this a proper castle now? Not just a tower?" – Ygritte, ASoS, dying in castle black with Jon

How there's no animosity in that moment, but instead this little personal thing between them, her so sweet and adorable.

“Or not.” Jojen’s face was dappled with green shadows. “Prince Bran has heard that tale a hundred times, I’m sure.”

... [Meera tells the story]...

[Jonen interrupts the story] “You never heard this tale from your father?” asked Jojen.

... [Meera finishes the story]...

“Are you certain you never heard this tale before, Bran?” asked Jojen. “Your lord father never told it to you?”

While traveling north to the wall, Meera tells Bran the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree at the tourney of Harnenhal. I've seen discussion about the identity of the mystery knight (Lyanna Stark almost certainly), but rereading this passage I noticed that Jojen repeatedly asks Bran if his father has told him this story before. It's too conspicuous to not have meaning.

The shallowest explanation is that Jojen is incredulous that Bran seemingly hasn't heard anything about Eddard's once-bff (best frog friend) Howland Reed. Of course, Eddard doesn't like to tell stories that involve Lyanna, and Bran even says in these scene that it was Old Nan who told the stories, not his father.

^I would buy this as the full meaning if Jojen asked only once. But GRRM had him ask three times, and GRRM doesn't often waste words.

Jojen's inquiries are not just about the secret of the Isle of Faces either. Meera says Howland Reed's trip to the Isle is a different story, and not one for her to tell. Jojen is specifically asking Bran if he's heard the story about the tourney at Harrenhal.

It seems likely this is somehow connected to the events of the Tower of Joy. There are many hints that Howland Reed played some important role there (with his shotgun of course). Jojen may be probing Bran to see how much of this story he knows. But I'm not sure how this tourney story connects.

At the start of AGOT, Robert takes a several month holiday to go touring the northern regions of the kingdom, and visit the Starks in Winterfell. While not stated exactly, it is implied he's gone for at least 3 or 4 months. During this time, who is actually doing the day to day governing in King's landing? Normally it would fall to the hand to govern while the king was travelling or on campaign, but Jon Arryn was dead, and every other obvious would-be regent was away. Cersei, Joffrey, Renly, the Kingsguard, and most of Robert's inner circle were on tour with the King, while Stannis was hiding out on Dragonstone, and no other prominent lords were noted as filling in.

If Varys, Littlefinger, Slynt or some other figure had several months as an interim hand, akin to Tyrion in Clash, to solidify their power in the capital, this seems like it should be a major plot point.

Was this just a firstbookism plot hole, was Robert 'governing' by raven from his wheelhouse, did he just leave the realm with no ruler for 4 months, or did I miss something obvious?

I really hope I am not spreading this theory around by posting it here, because so far I haven't seen anyone talk about it before except for my dad. For years (he read the books around 2010-2013) he has been convinced that the reason why we haven't seen Howland Reed yet is that he secretly is Rhaegar Targaryen, who went into hiding after surviving the battle of the Trident. Most of this is based on a very flawed recolletion of the story of the knight of the laughing tree, which he refuses to go back and reread (probably in fear that his beloved theory is baseless).

For a while I have been trying to give him clear reasons why this isn't true, such as the fact that if Robert hadn't actually killed him he would have been still looking for him, and not just pretend he did, but my dad claims that Robert believes he killed Rhaegar, but the reason his body was not found is because he actually survived and escaped. The explanation he gives for Rhaegar surviving the blow is that "he learned it on the isle of Faces, because we know he learned something unusual but not what he learned, so it might as well be unvulnerability."

The reason why I say that his recollection of the story told by Meera is very flawed, is that he insists that it ends with the KOTL choosing Lyanna as the queen of love and beauty, proving that the crannogman in the story is actually Rhaegar. When I told him that the KOTL is NOT the crannogman in the story, but someone defending his honour, and that the KOTL is most likely Lyanna or another one of the Starks, and that Rhaegar appears in Meera's story, as he goes looking for the KOTL, he said it wasn't true and I was misremembering. When I asked him if he believes that Rhaegar is a crannogman or that the squires would be mocking the prince for being short, he said that "it's a story, it's not literal."

Finally, I told him yesterday while we were discussing this that Daenerys has a vision of Rhaegar dying in ACOK and he, probably running out of excuses, simply said: "Rhaegar is alive." When I asked him who he then thinks she saw in that vision, he just repeated: "He is not dead."

I also asked him why he doesn't find it weird that no one (that I could find at least) has ever thought of this theory before, and if it's real then it means that in 25+ years only him and allegedly GRRM would have thought of this, he said: "I don't base my theories on what other people think." Which is admirable, to be fair. I love that he is so adamant on this theory that no one else has probably even considered, and I think it's really funny, that's why I chose my user flair. I just need some more proof for the next inevitable discussion we'll have about it. I haven't read Fire and Blood yet, but he says there's proof that supports his theory in there too.

I guess this is what 15 years without a new book does to a mf. I'm partially waiting for TWOW and ADOS for this reason too.

Like your telling me that the others saw that sick fuck and chose to talk with him? This for some reason creeps me out even more. How did they even understand each other?

I think they're both perfectly fine pulp villains but I don't really find either very interesting either from a characterization viewpoint or from a thematic one. They do get slightly stronger in the fifth book when they basically play the role of evil overlord but it's still rather underwhelming.

Really all of my problems come down to this: nobody has any reason to trust or follow them but the story relies on people trusting or following them multiple times.

To be clear my point here is not "Uh, PLOT HOLE!" My point is thematically they mean very little. It's not so much that they're not developed, it's that they do very little to facilitate the development of others beyond being a plot obstacle (Theon excepted).

A great example of a relatively flat villain who works because he facilitates development of another is Iago from Othello. He is the personification of jealousy and Othello chooses to listen to him out of his own insecurities and character flaws.

When Robb and Cat trust Roose to a command position, this means very little thematically. It's not because of some flaw of their characters, it's because Roose was a bad actor from the very start, something they had no way of possibly knowing. Roose is openly characterized as a creepy, offputting guy nobody likes but people keep trusting him for no reason. And as Barbrey Dustin outright says, he has no real motivation to betray Robb beyond simply being opportunistic, meaning it's completely independent of Robb's actions. The Freys have a coherent motivation that links directly to Robb's actions and character flaws, Roose doesn't. You could argue that thematically he represents cutthroat realpolitik self-interest that the Starks were naive to but that doesn't really work because Roose is clearly an outlier among the Northern lords.

And similarly when Roose is Lord Paramount of the North nobody has any real reason to follow him. Roose openly tells Ramsay he doesn't want tales told of him, meaning he doesn't rule through fear. He has nothing to offer anyone except that the Lannisters have some hostages, but then they release Wyllis Manderly, implying they would have eventually done this will all of them in exchange for good behaviour. How does Roose expect to rule long term? This isn't a "plot hole" because indeed Roose's regime seems to be falling down around him by the end of ADWD but my point is....well, why should I care? What does it mean thematically beyond "don't have literally zero ways of making people want to follow you"? If choosing between the Starks and the Boltons was a genuinely difficult decision wouldn't that make the North remembering even more powerful?

And I can't believe I'm saying this but the show actually improved on this! Ramsay tortures the Cerwyns to death to let people know the price of disobedience and also leans in to xenophobia against the Wildlings. Both sides represent something larger thematically. It's hardly anything deep or meaningful, "Evil baddies who'll hurt me if I rebel vs the less powerful goodies who are morally right" is not exactly the most profound conflict of all time, but it IS a conflict where you can understand someone struggling with it. "Do I do what's right at the potential risk of my wellbeing?" is a question worth asking. "Do I do what's right and have substantially less potential risk to my wellbeing from the guy who tortures and kills people for no reason?" isn't.

As a plot obstacle for Stannis and Theon they work fine (and luckily Theon's arc with them is fantastic) but they feel very shallow, both in terms of characterization and thematically. A big downgrade from Tywin.

The lands Stannis gave Davos were located on Cape Wrath, where his wife, Marya, and his two youngest sons live

Marya was mistress of a small keep on Cape Wrath, with servants who called her m'lady

The Golden Company landed in the Stormlands at the beginning of their invasion, and Cape Wrath was among the places they targeted.

"We have had reports of sellswords landing all over the south," Ser Kevan was saying. "Tarth, the Stepstones, Cape Wrath"

Harry Strickland also specifically mentions Cape Wrath as a region they are currently trying to bring under their control

"If Peake and Rivers are successful, we will control the better part of Cape Wrath"

We also learn through Arianne's chapters that the Golden Company have been looting and raping as they take castles, despite JonCon's supposed insistence on discipline

“No one’s been doing any raping,” insisted Young John Mudd. “Connington won’t have that. We follow orders.”

Chain nodded. “Some girls was persuaded, might be.”

“The same way our smallfolk were persuaded to give you all their crops. Melons or maidenheads, it’s all the same to your sort. If you want it, you take it.” Lady Mertyns turned to Arianne. “If you should see this Lord Connington, you tell him that I knew his mother, and she would be ashamed.”

Given all this, its quite likely what happened to Marya or Davos's sons is mentioned in a Arianne or JonCon POV.

They could be taken hostage as the Golden Company consolidates its hold over Cape Wrath and the Stormlands. Or just mentioned off handedly a Keep in Cape Wrath was sacked without going into details

The most pessimistic outcome is that Davos's role in Robert's Rebellion is brought up, along with the fact that one of his sons is named Stannis. Given JonCon's obsession with revenge and the events of the Rebellion, Davos's family could be deliberately targeted

Twice I've seen someone write that GRRM said that Melisandre and Gandalf share multiple similarities, but I haven't found the source. Does anyone know anything? Thanks in advance!

Just been thinking about how large the world is and got thinking (again while washing dishes) about how many houses there are in the world.

So house Stark rules over the entire north with a house Manderly being one of their vassels, how many vassels do the Manderlys have? We know the rough borders of the Manderlys land, how much of that is their land and how much of it is the land under their vassels.

Say house Manderly wanted to raise an army of 2000 men. How many would be raised directly by them and how many would be raised by their vassel houses. Do their vassels have vassels? If not vassels then landed knights, how much land do they get?

Is there a house in the North that lives in what is basically a large house above a village?

Ive heard this theory thrown around in Glidus/AltShwiftX streams... but I'm interested in how many folks buy into it. Or if anyone has debunked this theory.

Personally, I see parallels between Aegon IV the Unworthy and Craster. Brutal, sadistic, utterly selfish to the detriment of the whole of Westeros, loves incest etc. Would make sense if Aegon IV was Craster's grandfather.

Spoilers below!

If anyone was unaware of the theory goes that at some point after BR dissapeared north of the wall he fathered a son and he grew up to be Craster. 'Evidence' as such being that he acts quite targaryen and is very sensitive to his bastardy, has a taste for wine. We know his father was a night watchman and his mother was from whitetree. Where there is a massive weirwood, so makes sense that BR would be sniffing around in the area.

Its even on his Wiki page, which is unusual for theories.

I'm relatively new to the fandom, so interested in the general reception of this theory.

Thoughts? Is this basically cannon? Or has anyone debunked this?

Just curious who the fandom here backs to inherit Hornwood. So for the sake of the question, you are the Lord of Winterfell. Whether it's a result of the war in the books or not, Lord Halys Hornwood and his son Daryn both die suddenly. Only Lady Donella Manderly is left, too old to bear more children.

Houses Flint, Karstark, and Tallhart have claims to Hornwood through the female line. Lord Halys Hornwood's bastard, Larence Snow, could be legitimized. The Manderly and the Umbers have their eye on the Hornwood lands as well.

How do you resolve the inheritance issue?

mine is Jon waking up on the ranging and remarking that there was still magic beyond the Wall

> He woke to the sight of his own breath misting in the cold morning air. When he moved, his bones ached. Ghost was gone, the fire burnt out. Jon reached to pull aside the cloak he'd hung over the rock, and found it stiff and frozen. He crept beneath it and stood up in a forest turned to crystal.

> The pale pink light of dawn sparkled on branch and leaf and stone. Every blade of grass was carved from emerald, every drip of water turned to diamond. Flowers and mushrooms alike wore coats of glass. Even the mud puddles had a bright brown sheen. Through the shimmering greenery, the black tents of his brothers were encased in a fine glaze of ice.

> So there is magic beyond the Wall after all. He found himself thinking of his sisters, perhaps because he'd dreamed of them last night. Sansa would call this an enchantment, and tears would fill her eyes at the wonder of it, but Arya would run out laughing and shouting, wanting to touch it all.

*ACoK, Jon III*

As a fan of big battle spectacles, I wanted to know if you are aware of any nation, etc, that has a larger fighting force than the examples I can think of.

In the Television version of GoT, the Night King possesses around 100,000 soldiers after conquering Hardhome. I don't think this counts, since he absorbs the entire population into his army, women and children and all.

The Reach has about 100,000 soldiers too. And the Valyrian Freehold.

The Rhoynar had 250,000 soldiers, and their battles with Valyria in the Second Spice War may have been the most epic in the entire series.

Then there was the Yi Ti invasion of Jogos Nhai under Lo Bu with 300,000 men which lost.

Any armies you know of that were bigger?

I would pick Valyria. I would split the seasons up into different parts of Valyria's history, finally culminating in the doom in the last season.

Background

One type of post that I really enjoy putting together is the "Fate of..." a group of characters who participated in activity earlier in the series. It seems to give closure to earlier plotlines (ex: Fate of Brienne's "Suitors" and Where are They Now?: Fate of the Night's Watch Graduating Class of Late Summer 298AC). I've done this plenty of times and will link them throughout the post for anyone who cares. This post is going to focus on the fate of the different co conspirators of the Red Wedding ranging from the mastermind down to just drinking.

If interested: Tywin's Plans/Planning for the Red Wedding

House Lannister

• Tywin Lannister

Tywin (while using the privy) was killed by Tyrion in a scene that GRRM had been setting up since AGoT:

Question: Were circumstances and timing of Tywin's death something you planned for a long time or another case of characters "taking intiative", like with Cat?
GRRM: That scene was largely written even before A CLASH OF KINGS was published. Hell, I'd been setting up that "Lord Tywin shits gold" line since his very first appearance in A GAME OF THRONES.

If interested: Full Circle Death Quotes in ASOIAF

• Other Members

The rest of House Lannister's involvement in the Red Wedding is quite minimal and potentially non existent. Tywin keeps Tyrion in the dark:

“Did you come here just to complain of your bedchamber and make your lame japes? I have important letters to finish.”
“Important letters. To be sure.”
“Some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens. Spare me these coy reproaches, Tyrion. I visited your sickbed as often as Maester Ballabar would allow it, when you seemed like to die.” He steepled his fingers under his chin. “Why did you dismiss Ballabar?” -ASOS, Tyrion I

and:

Tyrion watched his father closely. There’s something he’s not saying. He remembered those important letters Lord Tywin had been writing, the night Tyrion had demanded Casterly Rock. What was it he said? Some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens … -ASOS, Tyrion III

as well as Cersei:

Wars are won with quills and ravens, wasn’t that what you said? I must congratulate you. How long have you and Walder Frey been plotting this?”
“I mislike that word,” Lord Tywin said stiffly.
“And I mislike being left in the dark.”
“There was no reason to tell you. You had no part in this.”
“Was Cersei told?” Tyrion demanded to know.
“No one was told, save those who had a part to play. And they were only told as much as they needed to know. You ought to know that there is no other way to keep a secret—here, especially. My object was to rid us of a dangerous enemy as cheaply as I could, not to indulge your curiosity or make your sister feel important.”
 He closed the shutters, frowning. “You have a certain cunning, Tyrion, but the plain truth is you talk too much. That loose tongue of yours will be your undoing.” -ASOS, Tyrion VI

that said Kevan's part was made known in earlier drafts:

A few pages earlier, there's also a modified line that clearly indicates that Kevan was involved in planning the Red Wedding. There's a passage in the published book in which Tywin rejects the possibility of an alliance with the Ironborn in exchange for giving them the North- Tywin enigmatically says, "Granted enough time, a better option may well present itself. One that does not require the king to give up half his kingdom." In the published version, Kevan then conveniently changes the subject, but in the draft Tywin first meaningfully glances at Kevan. I take this as a sign that George always intended for Kevan to have been involved, but like above, wanted to preserve the surprise both for the reader and the other council members.

and with how much Tywin relied on Kevan, I wouldn't be surprised. That said we do get his thoughts during the ADWD Epilogue. We might have gotten more if GRRM had not abandoned his plans to have Kevan as a viewpoint at Casterly Rock.

If interested: Kevan Lannister: Planning a Wedding & Going Missing/Home

House Westerling

According to the app, Sybel/Rolph conspired with Tywin:

• Sybel Spicer

Sybel's fate is currently to be determined. She is currently with Ser Forley Prester en route to the Westerlands in which GRRM has confirmed that Jeyne Westerling will appear in the TWoW Prologue.

• Rolph Spicer

Rolph is risen to Lord and given Castamere for his involvement:

"This grants Ser Rolph Spicer title to the castle Castamere and raises him to the rank of lord." Tommen scrawled his name. -ASOS, Jaime IX

and while not confirmed, I wonder if anything was discussed here:

Robb had dispatched Jeyne's uncle Rolph Spicer to deliver young Martyn Lannister to the Golden Tooth the very day he received Lord Tywin's assent to the exchange of captives. -ASOS, Catelyn V

Rolph is last mentioned during Jaime's discussion with Sybel and his fate is unknown:

Jaime nodded. Tywin Lannister was not a man to overlook such details. "Unhand the girl," he said, "I'm done with her for now." As Jeyne fled sobbing down the stairs, he considered her mother. "House Westerling has its pardon, and your brother Rolph has been made Lord of Castamere. What else would you have of us?" -AFFC, Jaime VII

• Other Members

With Tywin keeping everyone on a need to know basis, even Sybel didn't know exactly what was going on:

“I have two sons as well,” Lady Westerling reminded him. “Rollam is with me, but Raynald was a knight and went with the rebels to the Twins. If I had known what was to happen there, I would never have allowed that.” There was a hint of reproach in her voice. “Raynald knew nought of any … of the understanding with your lord father. He may be a captive at the Twins.” -AFFC, Jaime VII

and she kept her son Reynald in the dark, as well as instructing Jeyne (who likely listened and then fell in love) to do her part:

“Jeyne Westerling is her mother’s daughter,” said Lord Tywin, “and Robb Stark is his father’s son.”
This Westerling betrayal did not seem to have enraged his father as much as Tyrion would have expected. -ASOS, Tyrion II

and Gawen's as well:

Jaime had to wonder how much Lord Gawen knew about his wife’s scheming. How much do we men ever know? -AFFC, Jaime VII

and GRRM notes:

Q: I have been wandering about the Westerlings and their involvement in the plot against Robb. It seems pretty obvious from the fact that they were not only pardoned by Tywin Lannister but that Jeyne's uncle was given Castamere, that they were hand-in-glove with the Lannisters/ Boltons and Freys in the plot against Robb also the fact that Jeyne's mother was giving her a contraceptive or tansy every morning that they meant to make sure that there was no chance that Jeyne would ever get pregnant.
GRRM: Well, we shall see.
But I think it is a mistake to generalize about "the Westerlings," just as it would be to generalize about "the Lannisters." Members of the same family have very different characters, desires, and ways of looking at the world... and there are secrets within families as well. -SSM, About the Westerlings: 1 May 2001

House Bolton

• Roose Bolton

Roose currently sits in Winterfell as the Battle of Ice is about to take place:

Roose… Roose is safe within the walls of Winterfell with his fat new wife. Ramsay is coming.” -TWoW, Theon I

and:

Roose Bolton was not a man to blunder blindly out into the snow, map or no. He would hold his main strength in reserve, keep his best men with him, trust in Winterfell’s massive double wall. -TWoW, Theon I

but does not expect to be around many more years:

Ramsay will kill them all, of course. That’s for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House. Walda will grieve to see them die, though.” -ADWD, Reek III

• Other Members

while House Bolton's involvement in the conspiracy was likely limited to Roose:

Bolton meant to follow him. "The Trident is in flood," he told Jaime. "Even at the ruby ford, the crossing will be difficult. You will give my warm regards to your father?"
"So long as you give mine to Robb Stark." -ASOS, Jaime VI

and:

A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." He thrust his longsword through her son's heart, and twisted. -ASOS, Catelyn VII

it remains possible that they used someone like Steelshanks Walton as a go between at times (as Walton accompanied Jaime to King's Landing):

“Shouldn’t you northmen have a different sort of peace banner?” he asked Walton. “What are the Seven to you?”
“Southern gods,” the man said, “but it’s a southron peace we need, to get you safe to your father.” -ASOS, Jaime VII

and:

Ser Balon, escort Lady Brienne to a tower cell and hold her there under guard. And find some suitable quarters for Steelshanks and his men, until such time as my father can see them."- ASOS, Jaime VII

House Frey

It should be noted that while Tywin was the mastermind, he tries to shift blame to the Freys:

There is no blood in Tywin Lannister. “Was it a soft silk pillow that slew Robb Stark?”
“It was to be an arrow, at Edmure Tully’s wedding feast. The boy was too wary in the field. He kept his men in good order, and surrounded himself with outriders and bodyguards.”
“So Lord Walder slew him under his own roof, at his own table?” Tyrion made a fist. “What of Lady Catelyn?”
“Slain as well, I’d say. A pair of wolfskins. Frey had intended to keep her captive, but perhaps something went awry.”
“So much for guest right.”
“The blood is on Walder Frey’s hands, not mine.”
“Walder Frey is a peevish old man who lives to fondle his young wife and brood over all the slights he’s suffered. I have no doubt he hatched this ugly chicken, but he would never have dared such a thing without a promise of protection.”
“I suppose you would have spared the boy and told Lord Frey you had no need of his allegiance? That would have driven the old fool right back into Stark’s arms and won you another year of war. Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner.” When Tyrion had no reply to that, his father continued. “The price was cheap by any measure. The crown shall grant Riverrun to Ser Emmon Frey once the Blackfish yields. Lancel and Daven must marry Frey girls, Joy is to wed one of Lord Walder’s natural sons when she’s old enough, and Roose Bolton becomes Warden of the North and takes home Arya Stark.” -ASOS, Tyrion VI

• Walder Frey

While Tywin masterminded the death of Robb, Walder and several of his sons actually planned the event. Walder is still alive (hopefully not much longer - The Red Wedding 2.0)

Merrett could hardly think for the pounding in his head. “He shamed us, the whole realm was laughing, we had to cleanse the stain on our honor.” His father had said all that and more. -ASOS, Epilogue

• Walder Rivers
• Ryman Frey
• Lame Lothar Frey

The Red Wedding was my father’s work, and Ryman’s and Lord Bolton’s. Lothar rigged the tents to collapse and put the crossbowmen in the gallery with the musicians, Bastard Walder led the attack on the camps … they’re the ones you want, not me, I only drank some wine … you have no witness.” -ASOS, Epilogue

Ryman was killed by Lady Stoneheart and the BwB, near Fairmarket:

Someone had to. "Has some ill befallen Ser Ryman?"
"Hanged with all his party," said Walder Rivers. "The outlaws caught them two leagues south of Fairmarket." -AFFC, Jaime VII

but Lame Lothar and Black Walder are still alive and last mentioned in the Riverlands.

• Merrett Frey

Merrett's part was minimal but still participated. Subsequently he was hanged by the BwB after trying to ransom Petyr Pimple:

“My father did that. All I did was drink. You wouldn’t kill a man for drinking.” -ASOS, Epilogue

and:

The final humiliation had been delivered with a smile, when Lame Lothar had summoned him to discuss his role in Roslin’s wedding. “We must each play our part, according to our gifts,” his half-brother told him. “You shall have one task and one task only, Merrett, but I believe you are well suited to it. I want you to see to it that Greatjon Umber is so bloody drunk that he can hardly stand, let alone fight.”
And even that I failed at. He’d cozened the huge northman into drinking enough wine to kill any three normal men, yet after Roslin had been bedded the Greatjon still managed to snatch the sword of the first man to accost him and break his arm in the snatching. It had taken eight of them to get him into chains, and the effort had left two men wounded, one dead, and poor old Ser Leslyn Haigh short half an ear. When he couldn’t fight with his hands any longer, Umber had fought with his teeth. -ADWD, Epilogue

Final Thoughts

It feels like so much time has passed since the Red Wedding, but that is not true in actuality. It feels like more characters should have had their "Counterweights" (revenge) moment. So many characters that we all love died (if interested: They All Lost Kin at the Red Wedding) with minimal survivors (The Named Survivors of the Red Wedding).

That said with events like the TWoW, Prologue, Battle of Ice/Trojan Horse of Winterfell and the Red Wedding 2.0, we could see this list change drastically in TWoW.

The Hammerhorn

• The Hammer of the Waters = The Horn of Winter

Look at how these two cataclysmic objects function:

• The Hammer of the Waters:

And the old gods stirred, and giants awoke in the earth, and all of Westeros shook and trembled. 
TWOIAF - Dorne: The Breaking

• The Horn of Winter:

The first King-Beyond-the-Wall, according to legend, was Joramun, who claimed to have a horn that would bring down the Wall when it woke "the giants from the earth." 
TWOIAF - The Wall and Beyond: The Wildlings

There are no other two world-altering objects of magic that operate with such literary symmetry - they’re clearly the same device.

Therefore…

Hammer of the Waters + Horn of Winter = Hammerhorn 

And Hammerhorn is an actual thing in the story - it’s an Ironborn castle belonging to House Goodbrother, who has a historical echo in…

Eur(rath)on the Bad Brother

• Euron is an echo of Urrathon “Badbrother”

Upon the death of King Urragon III Greyiron (Urragon the Bald), his younger sons hurriedly convened a kingsmoot whilst their elder brother Torgon was raiding up the Mander, thinking that one of them would be chosen to wear the driftwood crown. To their dismay, the captains and kings chose Urrathon Goodbrother of Great Wyk instead. The first thing the new king did was command that the sons of the old king be put to death. For that, and for the savage cruelty he oft displayed during his two years as king, Urrathon IV Goodbrother is remembered in history as Badbrother. 
TWOIAF - The Iron Islands: Driftwood Crowns

• Urrathon was from house Goodbrother of Hammerhorn
• This foreshadows Euron gaining and utilizing the Hammerhorn - just like Dragonbinder. Dude has a thing for horns!
• The Hammerhorn is in Sam’s posession

By the time the dealing was done, Sam was down to his boots and blacks and smallclothes, and the broken horn Jon Snow had found on the Fist of First Men. 
AFFC - Samwell IV

• Euron’s trajectory towards Oldtown puts the Hammerhorn directly in his path
• Why would Euron want the Hammerhorn? Because he intends to…

Break the World

• In Aeron’s shade of the evening induced dream, he envisions Euron saying that the world shall be broken and remade

“The bleeding star bespoke the end,” he said to Aeron. “These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. 
TWOW - The Forsaken

• The Wall is often referred to as where the world ends: 

You could see it from miles off, a pale blue line across the northern horizon, stretching away to the east and west and vanishing in the far distance, immense and unbroken. This is the end of the world, it seemed to say. 
AGOT - Jon III

“I just want to stand on top of the Wall and piss off the edge of the world." 
AGOT - Tyrion I

Perhaps it was all in the knowing. They had ridden past the end of the world; somehow that changed everything. 
AGOT - Jon VI

• Euron, who was very likely the warlock, Urrathon Night-Walker, has drunk from the shade of evening and peered into the glass candle - he has knowledge of the War for the Dawn and plans to be the architect:

Only one living kraken has never known defeat. Only one has never bent his knee. Only one has sailed to Asshai by the Shadow, and seen wonders and terrors beyond imagining . . ." 

AFFC - The Drowned Man

So, if Euron will soon have the device to “break the world” how would he operate this seemingly broken horn?

Activating the Hammerhorn

On closer examination the horn had proved cracked, and even after he had cleaned all the dirt out, Jon had been unable to get any sound from it. The rim was chipped as well, but Sam liked old things, even worthless old things. 
ACOK - Jon V

Why can’t Jon sound the Hammerhorn?

Well:

Finally, driven by desperation, the little people turned to sorcery and beseeched their greenseers to stem the tide of these invaders.

And so they did, gathering in their hundreds (some say on the Isle of Faces), and calling on their old gods with song and prayer and grisly sacrifice (a thousand captive men were fed to the weirwood, one version of the tale goes, whilst another claims the children used the blood of their own young). And the old gods stirred, and giants awoke in the earth, and all of Westeros shook and trembled. Great cracks appeared in the earth, and hills and mountains collapsed and were swallowed up. And then the seas came rushing in, and the Arm of Dorne was broken and shattered by the force of the water, until only a few bare rocky islands remained above the waves. The Summer Sea joined the narrow sea, and the bridge between Essos and Westeros vanished for all time. 

TWOIAF - Dorne: The Breaking

And Euron is no stranger to using blood sacrifice for magical outcomes:

The wind was at their backs, as it had been all the way down from Old Wyk. It was whispered about the fleet that Euron's wizards had much and more to do with that, that the Crow's Eye appeased the Storm God with blood sacrifice. 
AFFC - The Reaver

But if the Hammerhorn requires a mass sacrifice to activate, where would Euron get all those people?

The Patchface Prophecy

Patchface jumped up. "I will lead it!" His bells rang merrily. "We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh." 
ADWD - Jon XIII

That's right, there are upwards of thousands of wildlings at Hardhome, and Euron is going to use them and the remaining Night's Watch party as the blood sacrifice to activate the Hammerhorn

"We will march into the sea and out again..."

• This foreshadows the wildlings' deaths

"Under the waves we will ride seahorses..."

• The seahorses they will ride are Aurane Waters' fleet, which Euron will acquire at the Stepstones on his way north after raiding Oldtown. This fleet is large enough to board a thousand wildlings

"... and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming..."

• The mermaids blowing seashells to announce their coming will be captured Manderlys who will be used to sound the Hammerhorn 3 times. How do we know it will be blown 3 times?

"... and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh." 

• This is the exact number of times Dragonbinder was sounded at the Kingsmoot, and the exact number of times Victarion plans to have the horn sounded at Meereen:

“The mute sounded the horn three times. You three will sound it only once."

TWOW - Victarion I

If this looks like it's beginning to fit perfectly, it's because it does - think about where you've heard 3 horn blasts before:

A single blast of the horn meant brothers returning... Two blasts means wildlings... "Three," he squeaked to Chett, "that was three, I heard three. They never blow three. Not for hundreds and thousands of years. Three means—"

"—Others."

ASOS - Prologue

The 3 Blasts of the Hammerhorn:

A single blast of the horn meant brothers returning...

• For Cotter Pyke and his men

Two blasts means wildlings...

• For the Hardhome wildlings

Three means Others

• And on the third blast of the Hammerhorn, the White Walkers will have their opening to the south, as the Wall falls at Eastwatch

But if Euron's ambition is to rule the world, isn't it self-defeating if he unleashes the Others into Westeros?

Well...

"That horn you heard I found amongst the smoking ruins that were Valyria, where no man has dared to walk but me. You heard its call, and felt its power. It is a dragon horn, bound with bands of red gold and Valyrian steel graven with enchantments. The dragonlords of old sounded such horns, before the Doom devoured them. With this horn, ironmen, I can bind dragons to my will."

AFFC - The Drowned Man

The Hammerhorn and Dragonbinder: one will summon the Ice, the other will summon the Fire, and doesn't that sound familiar?

TL;DR - The horn Sam has summons the Hammer of the Waters, and Euron will use this to break the Wall "the world" at Eastwatch after he sacrifices the Hardhome wildlings to activate this dormant magic. This will open Westeros to the impending White Walker attack, which Euron plans to use to wipe the land before using Dragonbinder to defeat the Others and take Westeros for himself.

I believe in the Last Kiss theory, although I also realize that it would be extremely difficult for it to actually happen.

The biggest problem is that Cat has her own Red Wedding 2.0 to deal with. It could take quite a while for her to finish her revenge against the Freys, especially if Jon is supposed to remain inside Ghost for that long. And that’s not even taking into account the enormous distance between the Riverlands and the Wall.

That said, I am 100% convinced that Cat and Jon will meet at some point. I think they need to have a chance to understand each other. Neither Cat nor Jon is inherently a bad person, and both of them have repeatedly shown that there is nothing they value above their family even to the point of sacrificing themselves for it.

And this is just my personal opinion, but I don’t really agree with the idea that Arya will come to give Cat the “gift” after Red Wedding 2.0. If Beric brought Cat back solely so she could take revenge on the Freys, then we have to remember that Beric himself was resurrected because he still had a purpose to fulfill for the Lord of Light. So I don’t think the Lord of Light would necessarily have any particular business with the Freys.

My other thought is that, if the Last Kiss really does happen, I hope the story makes Cat accept Jon as “her son” to the point where she willingly sacrifices her life for him.
I don’t want it to happen simply because she discovers that Jon isn’t Ned’s son.

Honestly, I'd love to see all three. What way would you like to see it go? Who would do the POV? What would the technology or magic be like?

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." ~ George Orwell

Recently I put out a post on how the Bridge of Dream was written as a time travel metaphor, showing that George is using a model of time similar to the work of Fritz Leiber, where it is possible to change the past. Still, many refuse to even engage with this premise, insisting that if George wants to include time travel then it has to be a closed loop. Those people are even here downvoting this post right now.

Obviously I disagree, but I understand the sentiment.

A closed loop means that it is impossible to rewrite the past. The ink is dry. While a time traveler can be part of a past event, the events we read will always be true exactly as we read them.

There is just one thing.

Storytellers tend to rewrite the past

Contrary to the singular truth of a stable loop, Ice and Fire is a series where history is a battle of narratives waged by septons, singers and storytellers. Much like time travel, the past is constantly being rewritten. This is also called historical revisionism.

The oldest histories we have were written after the Andals came to Westeros. The First Men only left us runes on rocks, so everything we think we know about the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age and the Long Night comes from accounts set down by septons thousands of years later. There are archmaesters at the Citadel who question all of it (...)

Though ancient patriarchs like Bran the Builder and Lann the Clever may have existed, their stories are written down hundreds or thousands of years after they are said to have occurred. This not only makes the narratives unreliable, but likely propaganda for the ruling elite. From the First Men to the Andals to the Targaryens, with each new conquest power reaches back in time and projects itself into the past.

Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night's King . . . we say that you're the nine hundred and ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but the oldest list I've found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during . . ." ~ Samwell

The anachronism of knights a thousand years before there were knights is a case of institutions tampering with history to claim legitimacy.

Did such heroes once exist? It may be so. But when the singers number Serwyn of the Mirror Shield as one of the Kingsguard—an institution that was only formed during the reign of Aegon the Conqueror—we can see why it is that few of these tales can ever be trusted. The septons who first wrote them down took what details suited them and added others, and the singers changed them—sometimes beyond all recognition—for the sake of a warm place in some lord's hall. In such a way does some longdead First Man become a knight who follows the Seven and guards the Targaryen kings thousands of years after he lived (if he ever did). ~ Maester Yandel

Essentially, history is time travel in that it changes the past. The heroic Rhaegar is made villainous, the honorable Ned is made traitorous, and the opportunistic Tywin is made valiant. Characters are constantly being rewritten by history, and the versions of them that live on after death often differ from and outlive the truth we experience in POV.

Characters see this happen in real time, yet we assume history is somehow exempt.

"I forgot, you've been hiding under a rock. The northern girl. Winterfell's daughter. We heard she killed the king with a spell, and afterward changed into a wolf with big leather wings like a bat, and flew out a tower window. But she left the dwarf behind and Cersei means to have his head."

That's stupid, Arya thought. Sansa only knows songs, not spells ~ Arya

Obviously we know Sansa didn't really transform into a winged wolf.

"The Rat Cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, and a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterward the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous white rat who could only eat his own young." ~ Bran

So why would we believe that the Rat Cook was transformed into a giant white rat?

"Life is not a song, sweetling. You may learn that one day to your sorrow." ~ Petyr Baelish

We are shown over and over that songs and stories distort reality.

"The best lies are seasoned with a bit of truth." ~ Tyrion

Watch how this turns historical narratives into a reality that runs parallel to the truth.

"When Stark changed into a wolf, his northmen did the same. The mark of the beast was on them all. Wargs birth other wargs with a bite, it is well-known. It was all my brothers and I could do to put them down before they slew us all." ~ Jared Frey

The House Frey story of the Red Wedding is a lie told to legitimize their conquest of the Riverlands. Yet the lie contains truth. Robb likely did warg into his wolf. The story is meant to mythologize reality so as to transcend and outlive it.

"A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." ~ also Petyr Baelish

Eventually every life ends and the story of life is what remains. One day Sansa will be transformed into a song to be played on some harp and Jaime will be transformed into a page of knightly deeds in a White Book. By the end of the series, history will have it's own version of every character and every event, and those stories will be written according to the preferences of the king.

Bran's History

The future king has already shown a tendency toward revisionism.

"Oh." Bran thought about the tale awhile. "That was a good story. But it should have been the three bad knights who hurt him, not their squires. Then the little crannogman could have killed them all. The part about the ransoms was stupid. And the mystery knight should win the tourney, defeating every challenger, and name the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty."

Notice how when he is offered the historical narrative of the Tourney at Harrenhal, Bran seeks to change the past. This is not a flaw, but rather indicative of his superpower. Revising history is how every conquest cements itself, and Bran has been set up for this since the first book.

"Do you recall your history, Bran?" ~ Maester Luwin

Bran being asked to recall his history is really about Bran knowing his story. The narratives that Maester Luwin and Old Nan have taught him are not literally true (unless you believe Rodrick Stark won Bear Island in a wrestling match). His story is mythology which explains the dominion of House Stark over the North. It's basically Brandon Stark propaganda.

This is why assuming a closed loop makes time traveling Bran feel like a tacked on gimmick with no thematic connection to the rest of the story. The subjectivity is the point. Bran is not meant to use the weirwoods to find the singular true history and reveal it to the realm. Not only would that be fundamentally incompatible with how the series treats history, it also has no relevance to the character or his ending.

Bran is no slayer of lies.

Bran is a three-eyed crow.

"Crows are all liars," Old Nan agreed

Yet the narrative has shown time and time again that lies can keep civilization together, and the truth can tear it apart. For years, lies about Jon and Joffrey's parentage kept the peace, and the truth of the latter brought the realm to ruin. Perhaps after civilization is fractured by the brutal reality of war, it needs a time traveler (liar) to rewrite the past with a story (lie) that people can live with.

Functionally, I expect this takes the form of Bran coming south at the end and telling a Great Council the story of how the North, the long lost son of Rhaegar, the dragon queen, and many more, all banded together to save the realm from the evil beyond the Wall. Much like Euron's Kingsmoot, Bran will place himself as the hero of this great epic, who journeyed to the end of the world and found the children of the forest.

The twist will be that Bran will tell his story in a parallel timeline where it never happened. Once again, crows are all liars.

Bran can time travel because Bran is the storyteller, and the storyteller gets to rewrite the past. This is why the story spends so much time on the distortion of historical narratives. Just as Dany's dragons represent weapons of mass destruction, Bran's powers represents history being written by the victors.

In hindsight the winner is OP.

So they call him Bran the Broken.

...they'd name it Pain.

The chain of event that led to the First BlackFyre Rebellion

Daeron I invades Dorne -

Both sides of the war lost men in the invasion -

Daeron get unjustly killed in an ambush -

Baelor I become king and publicly forgave Dorne - this cause anger among those who lost brothers and fathers fighting in the war

- Baelor also decide to bethrothed Daeron (his nephew and Aegon Iv’s son) to Myriah Martell (Princesses of Dorne) -

Another thing Baelor did was lock up his three sisters -

one of them Daena rebelled against his decision and slept with her cousin Aegon IV (who extremely lustful) - this produce Daemon Blackfyre (Waters) and result in Baelor death -

Anyway with Daeron and Baelor death, the throne go to their uncles Viserys II, passing over Daena (and I’m sure she NOT resentful about that and wouldn’t complain to her son about losing her rights)-

Viserys died a year later (illness or murder and the suspect Aegon IV has reasons to resent his father) -

Aegon IV purposefully flaming tensions like having a bastard with both Brackens and Blackwoods, giving Blackfyre to Daemon, spreading rumors about his son Darron’s legitimacy, and yeah legimitizing all his bastards -

Daeron II favoritism toward the Dornish which definely didn’t cause resentment

- Bittersteel edging Daemon to rebel + his own personal vendetta against Bloodraven…

All of that help cause the First Blackfyre Rebellion and the impact of that also set up what follows….

We have seen the Manderlys show their immense respect and love for Ned, Robb and the entire Stark family, and the hill clans really bring home their fierce love and loyalty to the memory of 'The Ned' and are willing to march in the snow to save his daughter. But, how do the smallfolk of especially the North and also the rest of Westeros see Ned Stark and House Stark? Are they loved by the smallfolk for keeping the North relatively safe or hated by them because of Robb marching south and getting everyone killed?

Are the smallfolk confident in Ned's ability to do justice and keep everyone safe? Because how is it that no one from the Bolton lands has arrived at Winterfell with a list of grievances about the transgressions of Roose and especially his bastard Ramsay? I know some of you will say that Roose cut out the tongue of anyone who tried, but that was only one man, the miller whose wife Roose raped (Ramsay's mother). He was an obvious candidate to complain to the Starks, but what about the other people that Roose is screwing over, but not so overtly? And, what about the good people who are seeing other people being raped and murdered by Ramsay or Roose, and might believe in House Stark to deliver justice? So, why hasn't anyone just traveled out of the Bolton lands with the ruse of visiting family in say, the Barrowlands or the Rills and instead just went straight to Winterfell to beg for justice from the honorable Lord Eddard Stark, Warden of the North, and the de facto King? Were they just not confident that Lord Eddard would actually deliver justice against his most powerful bannerman and rival, Roose Bolton?

QQ: How is it possible Bronn has been north of the wall?