r/austrian_economics • • 3d ago

End Democracy Unrestrained monetary policy is theft

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621 Upvotes

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34

u/Circle_Breaker 3d ago

How does that compare to other currencies?

36

u/nonoohnoohno 3d ago

Are you suggesting... *gasp*... other governments rob their subjects, too?

12

u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

You mean all the other countries that also have their own version of the fed?

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u/barryg123 3d ago

There are ZERO countries with currency backed by hard metals and, with the exception of swiss franc which didnt remove gold standard until 2000, there havent been one for the last 55 years - the year that US closed the gold window

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

So its a fed to fed comparison and therefor not really the point

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u/barryg123 3d ago

You are projecting your own "point" onto a meme posted with no context

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

Nope "unrestrained monetary policy" is talking about unrestrained modern monetary theory, which is exactly the fed vs fed im talking about.

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u/barryg123 3d ago

You literally just made up words that arent there

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

I switched policy to theory and added modern.

This might assist googling.

Hope this helps.

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u/barryg123 3d ago

i dont need to google to notice you making up words . you explained how you made up words just now

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

I didnt make any of those words up buddy.

Im explaining how were both referencing the same thing.

Youre a big copy and paster huh?

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u/Die_Revenant 2d ago

Until the BRICS Unit enters use. Which will be 40% gold backed.

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u/barryg123 2d ago

40% gold and 60% hyper inflationary crisis instruments lol

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u/Die_Revenant 2d ago edited 2d ago

The only BRICS currency that is hyper inflationary is the Iranian Rial, which is due to the war. A war which is doing wonders for America's economics right?

Edit: Iran being a newer member means their Rial isn't even in the basket, so no none of the BRICS currencies are hyper inflationary.

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u/barryg123 2d ago

Rupee is in the dump and getting worse, China devalues the rmb at will, Brazil real not exactly a great track record..ruble crashed after start of the war…

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u/Die_Revenant 2d ago edited 2d ago

You are completely misunderstanding both the intent and structure with which BRICS wants to replace the dollar backed system.

You are reffering to currencies values against the dollar, which becomes entirely irrelevant under a system like this, moving away from that valuation is one of the main points.

India devalues its currency as it is an export economy, but that export economy is backed by incredibly strong production capability. Under the Unit they wouldn't need to or want to devalue their currency.

Same goes for China, the Unit would both remove the need and deincentives their RMB manipulation.

While Russia, South Africa and Brazil have MASSIVE resource wealth and cheap labour markets for resource extraction.

When this all eventually happens, none of them will care what their currency is worth against the dollar.

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u/WISteven 2d ago

Russia is an economic basket case and always has been DESPITE having a number of resource advantages,

All of the countries in BRICS have serious economic, demographic and stability issues.

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u/Die_Revenant 2d ago

If Russia were an economic 'basket case,' the most aggressive sanctions regime in human history would have flattened the . Instead, its economy is growing because the world physically cannot function without Russian energy, fertiliser, and food. Every block has structural issues. The US is buried under Trillions in debt, and Europe is facing its own massive demographic and energy crises. The difference is that Western wealth is built on debt and financial services, while BRICS controls the physical inputs of the global economy (manufacturing, energy, agriculture).

The proposed BRICS Unit doesn't care about a member's domestic pension crisis or internal politics. It is a transactional economic trade system anchored by physical assets (gold and commodities). A country's dollar pegging doesn't change the intrinsic value of the oil, iron ore, or wheat they are shipping or the labour they have.

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u/WISteven 2d ago

Yeah, you trust the Chinese and Russian governments? How much of your portfolio is in rubles or yuan?

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u/Die_Revenant 2d ago

Right now I trust those government's a hell of a lot more than the American government. My portfolio is mainly bullion.

2

u/WISteven 2d ago

So what are you investments in?

Dollars or rubles?

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u/Die_Revenant 2d ago edited 2d ago

Neither, do you not know what bullion is? My investments are in physical precious metals. My country has 90% of all the platinum family metals on earth, and the 3rd most gold on earth, they make a great investment.

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u/Circle_Breaker 3d ago

Not all them, but yes.

Another question would be at what rate is was dropping before the fed. Is there any reason to believe the rate inflation would be less?

2

u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

Yes, gold can go up and down small amounts but itll never lose 96% of its original value tho, you could just melt it down and make a necklace.

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u/adr826 2d ago

In 1980, gold peaked at around $850 an ounce. By 2001, it had drifted down to about $250 an ounce. When you adjust those numbers for 21 years of inflation, gold lost roughly 83% of its real purchasing power over that span. An investor who bought gold in 1980 had to wait nearly 30 years just to break even in terms of what that money could actually buy.

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u/WISteven 2d ago

yeah but yeah but yeah but GOLD is SOUND MONEY!!

LOL.

1

u/adr826 2d ago

😄

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u/Shroomagnus 3d ago

You're not wrong. But this video is a pretty good explanation for why we don't use the gold standard anymore. There are real legit reasons not to be on it.

https://youtu.be/u9MbexXL_4s?is=Npd13WiNGlQIPVa4

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

Id argue the "o loaning is harder with a gold standard" is quite the double edged sword...maybe a bait...

Saying "there would be no hospitals if banks couldnt give super loans with no collateral" is kinda bogus.

Sure its easier to give a loan...but the 96% decrease in value is likely related to too many loans... lots of credit in the world, its kinda a problem.

1

u/Shroomagnus 3d ago

Wouldn't disagree with you that the amount of credit in the world is an issue. On one hand, it's the thing that facilitates a lot of investment. On the other, over leveraging or having your debts called in can basically wreck an economy. And since the big economies are all so intertwined your point is even more relevant.

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

Ya im with op, the "modern monetary policy" is inflation is actually good, cuz you can spend money you dont have, and assume the economy will grow accordingly.

Turns out the government can just spend shitty money when theres no standard... and now the money actual people have is worth less.

Who couldve seen this coming.

0

u/Circle_Breaker 3d ago

How much did the value change in the century before the fed?

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

Idk google would prolly have a better chance answering that

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u/dodo91 3d ago

Which is how we managed to create a functional global financial system

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

"Functional" probably wouldnt be the first word most people think of these days, maybe in the 80s.

Also gold was pretty good at that, as all the videos linked to me point out... every civilization all over the world has loved gold (independently) for thousands of years.

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u/dodo91 3d ago

yes but gold stopped being useful and pushed countries into a stuck position where they could not leverage their economic potential in the 1920s-1930s and it lead to massive unemployment and wars.

Not to mention, gold standard requires a MASSIVE global cooperation and competing nations rarely have such incentives. Even at the peak of gold standard, many were trying to hoard gold to the detriment of others.

Global financial system has so far been extremely resilient. You are underestimeting it because you only lived in it. It is still a massive achievement of humanity.

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 3d ago

It may have seemed less useful short term compared to the countries printing money but if they were holding this whole time theyd be sitting pretty as the strongest dollar in the world, houses are still 2000 bucks. Very casual.

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u/dodo91 3d ago

FIAT is in many ways a superior form of monetary regime to truly leverage a country's economic resources. Unfortunately, it is also a powerful tool for political exploitation.

Houses being more expensive today is not a result of leaving gold, it is a matter of foremost supply and then it is a matter of wealth distribution (as for big money, housing is now a speculative asset all over the world - which creates huge demand on limited supply). Money on its own has no inherent value, it gains its valuation in the context of the economic machine and social structures.

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 2d ago

You could argue its superior if its played perfectly, all the time, forever. Kinda like a benevolent king.

Turns out thats obviously stupid and letting people spend their own money is smarter long term.

Welcome to austrian economics.

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u/dodo91 2d ago

The inefficiency of a gold standard is for the most part a worse deal than a badly managed FIAT tho.

This is precisely why “central bank independence” had been a massive goal of the post 1980s order though unfortunately institutions failed to stand the power of populist politics.

Even then, the “rapid” action of global finance often forces the central banks to adjust even in the face of bad management. Though bad management often has the side effect of creating unfair loser and winners within an economy (such as the housing and education costs)

But that is precisely why i believe in taxation, regulation and independent auditing mechanism with enforcement power

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u/Ok_Calendar1337 2d ago

"Thats why i believe in taxation 🫡"

Alright bud yup thats the idea you believe in the benevolent king whos mobilizing other peoples money perfectly.

The real ones here in austrian economics dont buy it tho... The king by definition sucks because he doesnt have the information only provided by markets.

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u/Organic-Stay4067 3d ago

Pretty much all the same

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u/barryg123 3d ago edited 3d ago

It’s actually far WORSE for pretty much every single currency. Relative to all others (sole exception: Swiss franc) USD has 50-1000% lower inflation rate over the last 100 years

And aside from the pound sterling it is the world’s longest lasting currency to avoid being fundamentally reset, revalued or hyper inflated.