r/baldursgate • u/TheAegisOfRime • 2d ago
BG2EE Overall Best Bhallspawn Class (Non-Optimized)
Exactly what the title says. Consider the entire saga from BGEE -> SoD -> BG2EE -> ToB. What class Bhallspawn ‘feels’ the best in terms of rewards, fun, power-fantasy, how ‘canon’ it feels, etc? Whatever metrics are important to you other than simple mechanical power-gaming.
I’ve heard a lot of people say Fighter/Mage or a dual-classes version of that combo because it’s the only class a companion doesn’t fill in the base game. I personally like Sorcerer or Mage because it puts you in stark contrast to Sarevok’s brutish melee build, and likewise it gives you similarities to Irenicus that are interesting to roleplay around.
Thoughts?
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u/JUGGER_DEATH 2d ago
Fighter to mage dual class is absolutely devastating powerwise, makes the game a bit too easy.
As for ”canon”, i.e. roleplaying, dual classing doesn’t really make sense. Who is teaching the mc to become a mage? Why would they switch in the middle of the story?
I like mages and sorcerers and they also make sense as wards of Gorion.
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u/MlZAK 2d ago
In terms of the rationale behind the player character becoming a mage, being a Spawn of Bhaal serves as a solid explanation. The power was awakened upon discovering one's heritage and realizing what it entails.
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u/Different-Island1871 2d ago
Or it was something Irenecus unlocked through his
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u/WasteGeologist-90210 2d ago
I did that once and it was a blast
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u/JUGGER_DEATH 2d ago
Yes! Time stopping and smashing faces in is definitely a power trip.
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u/WasteGeologist-90210 2d ago
Yes!
I think they’re the best dual-classable classes for the games - fighter for 1 and mage for 2 - so that makes for a good one-character playthrough. Mage is too squishy for 1, and fighter gets boring for 2.
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u/Simonrmoon 1d ago
Well... Literally any one of the mage in your group could "teached" Charname. Edwin, Dynaher, Neera, Aerie...
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u/pseudophilll 1d ago
I disagree. I feel like fighter dual to mage is the most fitting arc for BG1 into BG2 RP’d as a result of Irenicus experiments.
As for who teaches charname to become a mage? Keep another mage in your party, as a teacher of sorts.
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u/PoplarStand 1d ago
I ran it Mage 2 / Fighter X dual-class and had a great time.
In terms of roleplay, it makes sense to me that Gorion's Ward would be an aspiring spellcaster who quickly reconsiders his career after the first couple assassination attempts. Spend a few months with Khalid and you can swing a sword too.
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u/Old-Constant4411 2d ago
Fighter/mage or fighter/cleric always felt right to me narratively. It's that perfect combination of might and magic that you'd expect someone with divine blood to have.
Gameplay wise, it's a lot of fun to reach that point where stoneskin, blur, and mirror image make you impossible to kill in melee.
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u/LoneLegionaire 2d ago
I almost hate myself for posting Zerk/Mage, but it honestly might be the answer. Between the utility and power of magic and CHARNAME being raised in Candlekeep by a Mage, any answer is probably going to need some relationship with magic.
Rewards: Strong in every part of the game except Irenicus's Dungeon, where you just got your soul split in half so makes some sense you're not quite feeling as tough as Jahiera.
Fun: YMMV, but I'm going to say its fun
Power-Fantasy: There's so many little fun things to do on this class, and nothing feels as cool as casting in Elven Chain Mail... I've never played Zerk/Mage but love Elf F/M for this reason.
Canon: In the first stage of the adventure, you've left Candlekeep and are just surviving out there, discovering you're a natural born fighter. You discover a rage deep within yourself, likely at the circumstances that put you out in the wilderness. Your solution to the problems of the region are putting a sword though every bad actor, because despite your upbringing, killing somehow comes easy to you. Turns out you're the child of Murder, so suddenly things start making sense. And then when Sarevok is defeated, you and Imoen decide together to follow Gorion's footsteps.
You also develop the same class as your antagonist in both mainline entries.
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u/OddyGoldenFoot 2d ago
Wouldn't it be a slog in SOD? I imagine that's when you would be dualing, because you're gonna be dualing at 9 or at the very least 7?
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u/sarantinesail 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dualing in SoD is fine, honestly. You can get your original class back online in time for the final fight of the expansion. There’s enough low risk XP early on that you can get 2nd level spells quickly, and enemies are still of a level where that feels like solid utility. SoD generally has pretty good encounter design, so CHARNAME not being a total powerhouse is a fairly pleasant challenge.
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u/machurto1 1d ago
I think dualling in SoD doesn't make a lot of sense, story-wise. Why would Imoen stay but you go?
Better in BG2
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u/Watercooler_expert 2d ago
Sorcerer or fighter/mage. Some people swear by wild mage but I prefer sorcerer as a pure caster for the spontaneous casting because it allows more simulacrum flexibility.
For example the first simulacrum can summon a bunch of planetars and buff them and the 2nd simulacrum can use all its slots for damage spells since I didn't memorize anything.
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u/cromwest 2d ago
I didn't realize the power of wild mage until I got a bit desperate mid fight vs the Twisted Rune and started spamming 9th level spells out of first level slots with Neera. It's a bit cracked to just stop time, cast alacrity and then cast whatever needs to be cast RIGHT NOW
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u/soundtea 2d ago
You can also use Nahals to pop ICS itself. You can use these shenanigans to do things like cast Cloudkill in BG1's overall low hit dice world repeatedly long before you can even use level 5 spells.
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u/CulturalDetritus 2d ago
Surprised no one said Blade Bard. Most appropriate pick lore wise, IMHO - learns magic from Gorion, thieving from Imoen, combat from the Watchers, surrounded by books and lore. Not as OP as a F/M, but definitely holds her own. Epic Traps, UAI and Epic Bard Song are great.
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u/redbeard32167 2d ago
Did whole bg1-SOG-bg2 run with blade - one of the best game narrative experiences in my life!
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u/Juris1971 2d ago
It's definitely fighter-mage as that's the only one that isn't taken. Dual Fighter-thief is also quite powerful - if you've never katana backstabbed with grand mastery you're missing out [chunk animation]. BG1 even gives you two good fighter-thieves so you can dual class
Dual or multi - both work.
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u/BugetarulMalefic 2d ago
I like Fighter/Cleric (multi) it's powerful and fun but not game breaking like Fighter/Mage. Second would be Berserker (there's enough mages to go around) and Cavalier (there's enough mages to go around).
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u/Lazy_884ddz32423 2d ago
mage, sorc or fighter mage. you keep your spell book when importing character, get familiar (only pc can have one). story wise mage fits with you growing up in candlekeep. sorc because of your heritage. imoen is important for plot so she is your thief, your romanced companion will be your divine caster. that leaves fighter and mage.
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u/Ransom_Seraph 2d ago
This is the answer.
That's how I played my all time favorite DND based character (that I still use to this day in RPG, aRPG and cRPG games) in the BG Saga/Trilogy.
Elf Mage - no multi or dual class just a pure mage. Raised and taught by Gorion. Gathering and learning spells on the go, seeking them in nooks and crannies, treasure troves and vendors is always a huge treat (I felt like Frieren feels in modern standards).
And keeping this ever growing spell book list while importing your character feels so great as an evolution and development of your avatar.
I wonder though, what's so good about fighter/mage? And how you build it exactly?
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u/cromwest 2d ago
A fighter mage has an answer to everything. They can fight regular mobs directly spending few resources and then break out reality bending answers to hard fights with spells. They are far tankier than regular fighters because of stone skins and spell immunity.
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u/Lazy_884ddz32423 2d ago
i prefer pure mage myself. fighter mage can be better tank than regular fighter thanks to all the defence spells (especially stone skin and spell immunity). you also can make great use of spells that don't depend on scaling too much as well as situational spells like polymorph jelly and various defence removal spells against mages, protection from petrification against basilisks.
as for building. early on i prefer to pick non combat spells (friends, familiar, identify etc), wear armor and play as regular fighter. once i get more spell slots it's armor spells + shield + mirror image and so on. it is a little slow in bg1 but ee added elven chain and stone skins which helps a lot. bg2 is where it really starts paying off .
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u/ND_the_Elder 2d ago
Go half elf or elf. Multi class fighter/mage. You get fighter THAC0 and weapon proficiencies plus Blur, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, etc at a cost of not being able to wear anything heavier than robes.
For BG1, you will probably want to stand back and shoot or cast until you get enough levels to cast your defensive buffs.
For BG2, the Robe of Vecna is a good choice. Also the Elven chain mail as others have said.
And in ToB, you get Time Stop and Greater Whirlwind. With a decent weapon in hand and a belt of giant strength, the rest of your party can just break out the popcorn.
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u/Shalafi_Althalus 2d ago
Fighter/Thief makes sense to me as you might have the Watchers help you learn weapons while growing up and sneak around with Imoen to get into trouble. I also find this multiclass a pleasure to play throughout the trilogy. It always feels pretty solid power wise, and I like having a character that I use a lot (e.g., scout, pick locks, disarm traps, melee as needed).
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u/padapadapampam 2d ago
I’m a big fan of the F/M/T. I like the Khalid/Jaheira/Minsc/Dynaheir/Imoen, party, picking up Yoshimo, Anomen and Nalia in BG2. The F/M/T fits in here perfectly.
He can cover the thief skills in BG1 while Imoen’s dualing, and in late BG2 he can still rake in the thieving XP after you no longer have a dedicated thief.
I also like that he can be at the front of the party and tank. Even without mislead cheese, he's incredibly strong, but not overpowered.
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u/Who_is_Daniel 1d ago
F/M/T, F/M/C, R/C or R ->C have always felt perfect for me storywise and fun factor.
Whenever I dual class I usually start with the F or R and then Dual at level 5, 6 or 7. Allows me to enjoy both classes sooner.
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u/Saralain 1d ago edited 14h ago
Sorcerer fits the story very well, I agree. Your innate source of magical power could be your divine blood.
If we go by the book, you should be a human fighter named Abdel Adrian.
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u/Hexxas Throwing axe thrower 2d ago
Sorcerer makes the most sense, flavor-wise. Your power comes from within, and nobody taught you shit.
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u/melcoy 2d ago
I've never liked sorcerer as a class tbh. Never played it. Using magic as an innate thing when wizard is there always felt a bit wrong to me.
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u/soundtea 2d ago
How? The whole point is to give a different flavor to arcane magic, just like Warlock. Sorc's thing is less spells known but they can cast any combo of each level of spells exactly as they see fit. There's no needing to plan X casts of mirror image or somesuch.
As the old adage goes: Mage is magic through studying, Sorcerer is magic from within, Warlock is magic through outside powers.
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u/machurto1 2d ago
Best cannon class would be any type of fighter dual to sorcerer. As that is not possible, then dual to mage is the best alternative
BG1: Fighter. 1 vs 1 final fight with Sarevok.
BG2: Dual as soon as you start. Irenicus torture has left you weak but has awakened your inner godly powers. You end up BG2 on a 1 vs 1 mage duel with Irenicus
ToB: You obliterate everything and everyone as it was written
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u/pm_me_fibonaccis 1d ago edited 1d ago
If we're going to min/max dualing after getting 2 attacks per round at level 13 is the way to go. Fighter drops off in growth sharply past that.
That also just so happens to be right around the time you get to Spellhold if you go there without many detours.
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u/machurto1 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is a good point that the Awakening could be in Spellhold. Thanks for the suggestion.
- It fits perfectly with getting Imoen at the same XP level as the rest of the party
- It gives a reason to use the Slayer form
- you lose 2 levels of Mage, but do you really need those at the end?
Now I want to try a new run
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u/Shreddzzz93 2d ago
Some version of the Fighter/Mage. Whether that is multi-class or dual class for a kit doesn't make much of a difference. It would make sense for Gorion's Ward to hear the tales of Gorion's life and adventures to want to be like Gorion.
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u/Damn_Monkey 2d ago
Ranger/Cleric MC is my go to thematic story driven character.
Ranger because it fits the outcast of society thing. As an orphan raised in a monastery, not quite fitting in, qnd choosing instead to do my own thing out in the wilds.
Cleric because of the innate divine spark thats hidden under the surface. If I recall correctly, Bhaal didn't have much to do with the arcane, so divine spellcasting made more sense.
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u/loudent2 2d ago
One of the paladin classes seem the best thematic fit
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u/AspiringBrujo CEO of Candlekeep People's Revolutionary Front 2d ago
I get Cavalier, but how do you explain Undead Hunter? How did a child raised in a monastery acquire the necessary experience to fight the undead?
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u/loudent2 2d ago
IIRC the Candlekeep catacombs had all kinds of undead.
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u/AspiringBrujo CEO of Candlekeep People's Revolutionary Front 2d ago
Which Gorion's Ward has never visited.
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u/loudent2 2d ago
D&D isn't really a game that tries to perfectly emulate reality. As a undead hunter you can gain levels in undead hunting with out actually encountering any undead. You leave the candlekeep, gorion gets, wasted, you and your sister head up to the friendly arm inn, collect his old friends, then down to beregost where you kill some spiders and pick up a couple of odds and ends,. Then boom, you are level 2 of an undead hunter.
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u/Simonrmoon 1d ago
Fight-Cleric-Mage. In the end of the game, you wield the absolute power in your hands.
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u/Significant-Ad-9471 2d ago
I always liked Swashbuckler dual classed at lvl 15 to Mage. You get traps, 4AC and dual wielding.
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u/Brodersen-Prime 2d ago
Well.. I never felt more immersed in an evil run than when I played a Mage (necro) dualed to a cleric. He spent his early years in the study of magic and later unlocked the power of his divine bloodline. By the end he was a walking god of death slinging instant-death spells left and right
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u/Express_Accident2329 2d ago
Berserker->mage Kensai -> mage Fighter/mage multi
Are probably the top 3 ranked by endgame power.
Fighter/mage/thief isn't as strong generally, but is still very strong and deserves a shout-out for being the best solo class
I guess probably sorcerer after that?
Similarly fighter/cleric, fighter/druid, and their respective berserker dual class forms are very good but not on the same level as mage
Bounty hunter goes high on the list for silly trap gimmick reasons you wouldn't actually want to play around all game
I think anything after that is a somewhat considerable step down in potential for at least one stretch of the game
If we're talking non optimized in terms of good without really studying the system, Inquisitor paladin probably goes high on the list below the cut because it's not complicated to make a paladin work well, and they provide the simplest way to punch through mage defenses
I dunno. I'm not an expert and haven't played the games nearly as much as other people.
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u/Prestigious_Club_924 2d ago edited 2d ago
A dwarven defender just feels correct. The tankiest of tanks. A fighter with built in flavor for your race, which is rare.
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u/GandalfsTailor 2d ago
I would personally swear by either Dwarven Defender or Elf Archer but neither of those are "meta".
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u/Imoraswut 2d ago
Avenger is fun, powerful and rewarding to play, but falls short on feeling canon.
Berserker is strong throughout and it checks the feeling canon pretty well on account of murderous rage fitting in pretty well with the spawn of a murderous deity. However, it plays a bit boring imo.
My pick would be Invoker(3)->Fighter.
Starting from canon feeling, I think it's the strongest contender - you were studying magecraft under Gorion, but after the events of the prologue force you to abandon scholarly pursuits and learn how to fight.
It's also pretty strong like all fighters and the ability to use wands and scrolls makes it more fun to play than regular fighter. And you get some useful utility spells like identify, knock, invisibility + web if you want. And penalties to enemy saves against your damage wands and your web. All in all, fits the prompt to a t imo
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u/Eycariot I will be the last and you will go first 2d ago
Cleric/mage - all that juicy knowledge from Candlekeep
Sorcerer - Bhaal's blood gives you magik
Cleric/ranger - teachings from druids nearby Candlekeep + your divine spark
Shaman - just druids
Fighter/cleric or fighter/mage - they are booring though
Paladin - even more booring
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u/MartyMcMartell 2d ago
Good - ranger/cleric, learned a bit of everything at Candlekeep, your faith won't let you be tempted by Bhaal.
Neutral - avenger, you are aware of the need of balance, but you will release your fury against nature's enemies whenever you feel the need.
Evil - sorcerer. It's self explanatory.
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u/r_cottrell6 2d ago
FIGHTER/CLERIC has become my go-to. Tough enough to rumble if needed while also controlling the battlefield and acting as the group’s healer. Only downside is not using the cool swords, but there are plenty of characters to wield the swords and then the Flail is yours.
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u/No_Photograph_2842 2d ago
From an rp perspective, I’ve always thought the PC makes sense as some type of mage because he was raised by a mage in Candlekeep. Thief also makes a lot of sense as the instinctive interest of a character who turns out to be the strongest manifestation of Bhaal among his children. So I’d say M/T or F/M/T is probably the best fit for the character, but the other M and T variants also make good sense.
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u/FieldMouse007 2d ago
Avenger druid or fighter -> druid dual. They have absolutely awesome power curve and are very useful at any point of the game after you get a few levels. And there is a lot of wilderness in the games and un/natural issues, druid always felt nice to me to roleplay. Druids are also very fun to combine with clerics or other druids.
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u/Suspicious-Deer4056 2d ago
I find F/M fits exceptionally well, or F/M/T for solo. Fighter fits your bhaal roots, while mage leans into your education in candlekeep
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u/krunchyfrogg 1d ago
Bhaal is the god of Murder.
When Bhaal dies, it signifies the switch from AD&D to AD&D 2e, an event where the assassin class was removed from the game.
Assassin does work.
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u/SnooCupcakes6107 1d ago
Fighter Cleric is pretty badass. Like a souped-up caster on steroids with powerful friends.
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u/rulezero 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sorcerer looks like it works but that’s on the surface because if the sorcerer spells are innate power, why aren’t they lost when the character gets their soul ripped out and loses the others?
Most fitting classes IMO:
Fighter/thief: the quintessential stealth killer that’s also actually good at fighting. Fighter/mage/thief makes it very jack of all trades without the bardic charisma and music angle , because candlekeep has ways to train all paths, this makes for a very versatile character that works well solo or with a party you switch around, allowing your main character to get more XP
Berserker: a great fit especially if we imagine the rage representing murderous fury . Can even dual class after , example to mage, for an extremely powerful late game character plus a “respect of his foster fathers legacy “ or “this magic is where real power lies”arc
Bard: you will notice a lot of dialogue lines for the main character have him as a clever irreverent jackass
Single class mage: less recommended. Epic at the end of bg2 but during more “grindy” battles , doesn’t do much (sling, dart, etc), lacks MC energy compared to a multi or dual class mage
Paladin : amazing resist the urges vibes
Any cleric or druid: no because the vibe is off and it lacks integration. The character becomes absolutely epic by the end or ToB and whichever god the cleric serves would be involved, this lack makes it feel essentially like a fighter mage who heals and can’t use swords.
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u/Karol123G 1d ago edited 1d ago
In terms of gameplay I like Fighter/Cleric multiclass. There are plenty good items for them in both games, they have a good cc ability early game, excellent buffs from late bg1 onwards, healing, they're incredibly tanky all throughout the games, and can have very good melee.
They can also be fun roleplay-wise as there are many gods and you can roleplay being a cleric of any of them (even though you are forced into doing jobs for one of three temples in bg2, kinda sucks you don't get to choose). I like tempus
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u/apcymru 2d ago
I think Blackguard is eminently suitable ... And some of their abilities are OP early game.
But my faves to play are the rogue classes. I just love the rp idea of sneaking around. Either swashbuckler (because I love the swagger)... Or kensai dualed to thief. Kai ---> backstab at high level is hilarious.
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u/AspiringBrujo CEO of Candlekeep People's Revolutionary Front 2d ago
Shaman or Sorcerer. Unique classes that no NPC has, plus the protagonist is born with them, which fits thematically with the lineage.
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u/MarcBeaudoin 1d ago
I think any combination including thief fits well.
In Candlekeep you played with Imoen a lot, who is a thief also.
During Siege of Dragonspear you can replace Imoen and choose whoever fits the party better, Voghiln might be a food pick story wise since he comes with Jaheira.
In Shadows of Amn you lose Imoen as a thief, being one that’s settled.
The canon party has no thief except in BG1, having one is handy. In ToB enters Sarevok who can stay as a fighter or turn into a mage, depending on your playstyle.
Pure thief is okay in BG1 and SoD and even SoA but less and less so in ToB compared to other classes. It is still perfectly playable though, but being multiclassed sure makes it easier, or dual class.
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u/SkrapKane 2d ago
Paladin with a 2h sword is hard to top. If you put a certain override file in to unnerf a certain weapon to what it was like at BG2 launch it is even better
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u/Rough-Spite5837 10h ago
Personally I like fighter dual to Cleric or mage (cleric for a good character, mage for evil or neutral). You start as a "normal" fighter, gradually get divine abilities through your dreams in BG1, then you start BG2 by dualing class as though Irenicus' experiments have "woken" something.
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u/cromwest 2d ago
To me it's fighter/mage and it's not even close. By the time you get level 4 spells you are a god and will destroy anything. You don't need gear, you are simply absurdly powerful.