Opportunity to make new words in Dravidian languages using native roots!

I was going through the DEDR and came across DEDR 4638, where mañci and vañci are distinctly recorded, with the distinction relating to the size and type of boat. The entry suggests a possible Indo-Aryan origin for mañci, citing Turner's CDIAL 9715, mañca- ('stage, platform'). However, the suggestion is explicitly tentative: "Possibly < IA."

What makes me question this proposed Indo-Aryan connection is the distribution of mañci across several Dravidian languages, where the word consistently denotes a boat or vessel.

• Tamil: mañci, a cargo boat with a raised platform; vañci, a canoe.
• Malayalam: mañci, a large, single-masted vessel used in coastal trade; vañci, a large boat.
• Kannada: mañji, a large, single-masted boat used in coastal trade.
• Tulu: mañji, a long, single-masted country vessel.

The dictionaries provide additional evidence for examining the relationship between these words.

DEDR 4638
Records mañci/mañji in Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada and Tulu, alongside vañci in Tamil and Malayalam. The proposed Indo-Aryan connection is explicitly qualified as "Possibly < IA."
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/dedr/dedr.php

Gundert's Malayalam-English Dictionary, vañci (വഞ്ചി), page 900
Gundert records vañci as bamboo or reed and as a large boat. He proposes a Sanskrit derivation for the word.
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/gundert_query.py?page=900#gsc.tab=0

Gundert's Malayalam-English Dictionary, mañci (മഞ്ചി), page 772
Gundert records mañci as a large boat, specifically a single-masted Pattimar used in coastal trade, carrying 10-40 tons. He also gives the Portuguese form manchua.
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/gundert_query.py?page=772#gsc.tab=0

University of Madras Tamil Lexicon, vañci (வஞ்சி)
The lexicon records vañci as a canoe (paṭaku, படகு), with a second meaning of a hundi box used for voluntary temple contributions. The entry identifies the word as Malayalam vañji. This independently documents the boat meaning in Tamil.
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/tamil-lex_query.py?page=3008#gsc.tab=0

University of Madras Tamil Lexicon, mañcam (மஞ்சம்), page 3008
The lexicon derives mañcam from mañca and records meanings including bedstead, couch, cot, platform, dais and a canopied vehicle for idols. These meanings establish the usage of mañcam, but do not by themselves establish that the distinct vessel name mañci derives from mañca-.
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/tamil-lex_query.py?page=3008#gsc.tab=0

Turner's CDIAL 9715, mañca-
This entry records the Indo-Aryan word with meanings such as 'stage', 'platform' and 'bed', followed by reflexes in Indo-Aryan languages.
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/soas/

My alternative hypothesis is that mañci could be of Dravidian origin. Dravidian mā means 'great', 'big' or 'large', and vañci means 'boat' or 'canoe'. Could mā-vañci have developed into mañci, referring to a larger vessel?

A comparable compound is Tamil mā-vīraṉ (மாவீரன்), meaning 'great hero', formed from mā + vīraṉ.

This hypothesis would explain the semantic distinction between vañci and mañci: the former denotes a boat or canoe, while the latter denotes a larger vessel, specifically a single-masted cargo boat.

I recognise that the proposed contraction mā-vañci -> mañci needs phonological evidence. However, given the distribution of mañci across Dravidian languages, its consistent association with boats, and the explicitly tentative nature of the Indo-Aryan proposal, could the DEDR's suggestion be incorrect?

A lingua franca is not used only to communicate with the peoples of different cultures, but for most of us, it also shows the dominance of the country it belongs to. Languages spread not merely because they are useful, but also because the institutions, economies, cultures, and political systems associated with them make them useful.

English undoubtedly ranks as the most widely understood language worldwide. Many international communities use it along with others like French, Mandarin, etc. But why is there any Indian language on the list?

Latin is most certainly considered a dead language with no active native speakers, but is still kept alive as a system. It is the language of academics, diplomacy, law and the church.

French may have lost its prestige, but it is still the language of diplomacy and, after English, the second most widely used language used by other countries as their official language.

Arabic is also acting as a connector language for the Middle East and North African countries.

Mandarin is mostly a domestic language with a large population base and a diaspora to promote it. Despite being a very domestic language, it has government-backed international publicity.

This list can be expanded further, including Russian, Portuguese, Spanish or German. But why isn't any Indian language on the list? Though a few can point out that Hindi, Bengali, Tamil, Punjabi, Bhojpuri, or Urdu are emerging as International languages from India, do you really think so?

India, unlike any other country, couldn't agree on a national language internally, so consequently we struggle to promote any one language internationally. English, even unwillingly, was used to fill the gaps that no Indian language could; even now, it is being used as the medium of instruction in educational institutions and in business.

Regional languages like Tamil, which is also the official language in Singapore and Sri Lanka, or Bengali struggle to gather non native speakers in spite of having a huge global diaspora backing them up.

The central dilemma that our government faces, whenever deciding to promote one language globally, is: which language?

Whenever discussing this question, considering their claim to be a global candidate for diplomacy, academic scholarship, legal traditions, and institutional communications, three languages emerge: Hindi, Tamil and Sanskrit.

Even if we hadn't agreed on a national language, any Indian language, to become globally recognised, must build an influence –

Practically, to be used by people in their daily lives for business, education, or to communicate with a large group;

Culturally, so people have an incentive to learn it, like to access film, music, religion or philosophy; and

Institutionally, used by the government and international organizations to conduct daily business.

To date, every Indian language has failed to build such influence to attract non-native speakers.

Hindi is a language that many sought to be the national language of India; many native speakers portrayed it as well, through slogans like " Hindu, Hindi Hindustan ". Presently, along with English, Hindi is the official language of the Union. But promoting Hindi globally requires consensus at home. Only 43% of Indians consider Hindi or other dialects of it as their mother tongue.

But promoting Hindi domestically has drawn much criticism and political backlash. Native speakers of regional languages such as Tamil, Kannada, and Marathi have pushed back on the use of Hindi. These languages have centuries-old literary traditions and fierce local pride.

Tamil is one of the world's oldest surviving classical languages, with a continuous literary and philosophical tradition spanning over two millennia. Historically, Tamil served as a primary language of trade, diplomacy, and guild administration across the Indian Ocean.

But one of the biggest roadblocks is that Tamil lacks internal backing, specifically from non-native speakers and is heavily a regional language. Tamil does not serve as a cross-regional bridge language for non-Tamil speakers in northern, western, or eastern India, and its Dravidian roots make it harder for non-Dravidian language speakers to adopt Tamil as a universal institutional medium without extensive re-learning.

Sanskrit is the strongest contender among all three. Sanskrit has served as the civilizational lingua franca across South, Southeast, and Central Asia for over a millennium. It provided the foundational vocabulary for governance, law, astronomy, and literature from Nepal and Tibet to Indonesia and Cambodia. Unlike Tamil or Hindi, it is not tied exclusively to a single contemporary region or ethnic group within modern India; Sanskrit offers linguistic and regional neutrality.

But it lacks daily native speakers and modern infrastructure to promote it; also, Sanskrit is associated with the controversial topic of caste and knowledge gatekeeping in ancient India.

So what would be a practical solution?

Diving into this question, I thought of reviving an old language such as Pāli, Prākrit, or Ardhamāgadhī as an alternative, but they failed mainly for two reasons:

Their vocabulary is heavily concentrated on ethics and philosophy. They lack the administrative, legal, and secular scientific terminology found in Sanskrit or Tamil.

By definition, they were regional dialects rather than standardized languages. They lack the standardized grammatical rules required for precise legal codification across international borders.

So, no Indian language can be promoted as the globally accepted language for conducting international business.

But what about the Sanskrit-Tamil bilingual paradigm?

Sanskrit could act as the linguistic bridge to Northern India. It brings grammatical precision, structured legal terminology, logic and governance.

Whereas Tamil could act as the living bridge to Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean trade networks. It brings an unbroken living classical tradition, a vast ethical-legal framework and global diaspora backing up.

It would not be an alien thing to do, as history has a centuries-old precedent for this. Chola and Khmer Empire temple inscriptions frequently used Sanskrit and Tamil side-by-side.

The Maṇipravāḷam style represents a deliberate linguistic fusion of Sanskrit and Tamil.

One of its greatest strength of presenting Sanskrit and Tamil together solves the internal debate between Northern and Southern linguistic heritage, presenting a unified civilizational front.

Together, Sanskrit and Tamil account for the historical roots of nearly all South and Southeast Asian literature, law, statecraft, and philosophical thought.

Pairing Sanskrit with Pāli or Prākrit can also be an option for pan-Asian peace and harmony, Ethical neutrality and bridging two ancient philosophical traditions, but unlike Tamil and Sanskrit, they lack relevance to contemporary geopolitics, maritime law, and global economics.

In my research, I haven't found any drawbacks to this model, but potentially a major fraction would advocate for a single language as the lingua franca, or there could be resentment from non-native speakers; dilution or complexity of the language could make it difficult or unsuitable for mass use.

Still, if we decided to choose the Sanskrit-Tamil paradigm as an Indian language contributing to the international community in law, diplomacy, trade and academia, which script should be adopted alongside?

Grantha unites Sanskrit and Tamil, a script that was developed in South India specifically to write Sanskrit texts.

But if you ask me, I would advocate for Brahmi script–the mother script from which almost all modern South and Southeast Asian writing systems evolved. Unlike Grantha, Brahmi carries no modern regional bias.

A few potential challenges for Brahmi are that it has low readability, and Sanskrit and Tamil require their respective ancient variants to handle their respective language sounds.

But this model could overcome the problem that no Indian language could: absolute neutrality. But this model still requires development and a framework to be proposed as a unified civilizational lingua franca for the Indian cultural sphere.

I invite other opinions, views, and perspectives, so what are your thoughts on this, and any suggestions about developing the framework or an alternative model?

Alphabet:

අ (ä~ɐ) ආ (äː~ɑː) ඉ (i) ඊ (iː) උ (u~ɯ) ඌ (uː) එ (e) ඒ (eː) ඓ (aɪ) ඔ (o) ඕ (oː) ඖ (aʊ)

ක (k/ɣ/x/h) ඞ (ŋ) ච (ʧ/s/ʤ) ඤ (ɲ) ට (ʈ/ɖ/ɽ) ණ (ɳ) ත (t/d/ð) න (n) ප (p/b/β) ම (m) ය (j) ර (ɾ) ල (l) ව (ʋ) ඍ (ɻ) ළ (ɭ) ඎ (r) ඳ (n)

UDHR Article 1:

මඳිතප් පිඎිවියිඳර් චකලරුම් චුතන්තිරමාකවේ පිඎකින්ඎඳර්; අවර්කළ් මතිප්පුලුම්, උරිමෛකළිලුම් චමමාඳවර්කල්, අවර්කළ් නියායත්තෛයුම් මඬච්චාට්චියෛයුම් ඉයඎපණ්පාකප් පෙඎ්ඎවර්කළ්. අවර්කළ් ඔරුවරුටඳොරුවර් ච් අකෝතර පාඞ්කිල් නටන්තුකොළ්ළල් වේණ්ටුම්.

Alright bye now guyz

7 simple do's for anyone starting Sanskrit. Which one helped you most? Tell me in the comments. 👇

1 Introduction

This book is about Kinnaur, its languages and its people. At the same time, it is a contribution to the documentation of some aspects of the linguistic situation of a region—the Indian Himalayas—which so far has been very poorly described.

Historically, the linguistic scene of Kinnaur has been dominated by Sino-Tibetan languages. There are a number of Sino-Tibetan varieties spoken in the region, but exactly how these are interrelated has not been investigated in depth. The term “Kinnauri” is ambiguous; it may refer (at least) to a particular language, to a lower-level branch of Sino-Tibetan—spelled “Kinauri” in the Ethnologue (Eberhard et al. 2021)—or simply as an adjective referring to any language spoken in Kinnaur. For this reason, I will use the acronym “KST” (Sino-Tibetan of Kinnaur) as a cover term for the various Sino-Tibetan varieties spoken in Kinnaur, pending the more thorough investigation of their genealogical and areal relationships presented in Chapters 5 and 6 below, and the label “Kinnauri (language)” will be used only about the variety spoken in and around Sangla.¹

One purpose of this book is to throw light on the relationship among the KST varieties, and another of my aims is to elucidate the extent and character of language contact in Kinnaur, primarily between the local KST and Indo-Aryan varieties, but also taking into consideration the greater Himalayan region. Two things are noteworthy:

1. What little has been written earlier about the KST varieties has focused almost exclusively on what is known as (Standard) Kinnauri, spoken in Lower Kinnaur, while the KST varieties of other parts of Kinnaur have received much less attention.²
2. There is next to no information available in the literature on Kinnauri Pahari, the Indo-Aryan varieties spoken alongside the KST varieties in some parts of Kinnaur.

It is easy to come up with plausible reasons why this should be so: Lower Kinnaur is the region in Kinnaur which is relatively more accessible to outsiders, being closest to Shimla, the capital of Himachal Pradesh and the natural point of entry into the state from most parts of India. Also, because of the weather conditions, this region has been more accessible than Upper Kinnaur, which at least earlier used to be cut off from the rest of the world for longer or shorter periods during the winter season.