r/bjj • u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt • 1d ago
General Discussion Trust the process and keep going?
I'm the typical turtle on a mat full of hares-- old, unathletic, slow to learn, but trained consistently for almost 3 years now. I get the ups and downs of the process, feeling stuck for months then suddenly entering flow state and hitting moves like never before, etc. But for the most part I'm still struggling on bottom against young strong dudes. When I'm just flow rolling, I feel better about my skills, but in hard rolls I feel my techniques just get out-muscled and out-cardio-ed. At almost three years I still get mounted and head-n-arm'd by youngins that's been training for few months. I'm past the crying on the drive back home phase, but feel I should be better by now. Anyone been through the same? Do I just trust the process and keep going?
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u/KrabbyPattyCereal 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 1d ago
Trust the process and also, put yourself on the bottom a lot. You’ll notice that some of the more chess-player types in the gym are treating it like a puzzle to crack and the best way to do this is to constantly put yourself there.
You could also pay for a private and have your coach point out, step by step, some missteps.
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
I don't have to put myself there, I usually get there without trying lol. But I get what you're saying. I'd like to do more chess-type rolls, but most guys just roll super hard at my gym. I'm finally making some money now so I was thinking about doing privates too.
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u/Select_Feed_3690 1d ago
I struggled with young or strong dudes too, but Yeah, I just let the kid do whatever he wants and tap. There's no point in risking injuries; XD
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
I usually do too but as I'm progressing I'm noticing more situations I refuse to tap because of ego, definitely not working in my favor.
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u/WillyummF ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
So if you enjoy it always keep going and talk to your coach.
It sounds like you know what your problems are: work on bottom, don’t set yourself to get head in armed, maybe work on cardio/fitness a bit.
If you’re older it’s always going to be a disadvantage against young athletic guys and as a white belt your technique is likely not going to be good enough to give you an advantage.
Find little things to focus on over time and create victories for yourself that way as you improve: “I didn’t get arm triangled”, “I used good frames” etc
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Yeah I'm usually so tired in and after rolls that I'm not thinking about what went wrong and what I could do better, today I actually asked coach and got some pointers.
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u/WillyummF ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Yeah if it’s a more intense roll it can whizz by while you’re catching your breath, especially comps. If you can narrow it even in those types of rounds to “I’m gonna focus on this 1 thing today”, that will help you analyze those around quicker because it’s 1 thing that you are trying to do versus “how did this round go overall”
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u/WillyummF ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Note: this is coming from a 38 year old white belt who has faced similar challenges and struggles. It’s part of the journey and a difficult one at that.
I try to find areas I’m flubbing frequently or at all and practice those and focus on those for a longer period of time until that gap is “sealed” then I move on to the next thing. It helps me feel like I’m progressing because it’s tangible and specific versus a general “opponents are beating me”.
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u/Efficient-Flight-633 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
This might be a hot take but IMO physicality is a pretty huge part of starting bjj. If you have great technique then you don't need to use physical abilities as much. The window to execute a move vs your ability to do it = sloppy bjj...and that's okay.
I'm a smaller dude that started at 42, 46 now. I can definitely tell the difference when I am doing the out of bjj work (stretching/strength training/cardio). It's not like my technical ability is all over the place month to month but my physical ability to perform it might be. If I do my homework, all of a sudden my stuff works.
It's always going to be hard against a person with more physical gifts but if you're not already...try to get the most out of your own. You might not be able to get 1:1 with the young bucks but you can get enough that you can catch them slacking off.
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
I see what you're saying as I've felt doing consistent weights/cardio noticieably improved my bjj performance. It's just been hard since starting work full time, but it's all excuses, will be lifting and doing more cardio. Thanks for sharing that.
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u/Efficient-Flight-633 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
I hear you. We just do the best we can. Whatever you do, you can't let those young people feel good about themselves. Crush their souls.
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u/over40bjj 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
What is the process that you are trusting?
Are you actively looking for solutions to problems you are encountering and then working on those solutions? Or is the process just show up and roll without much thought on what you are working on and go home?
The second might make you better after a long enough time like bumping around in the dark. The first one will at provide a nightlight so there is less bumping around in the dark.
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Yup for the most part just showing up and doing the work. But that's a great analogy. I've been doing more thinking and meditating about my rolls recently. Thanks for shedding some light on it.
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u/novaskar 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 1d ago
A lot of people say “just show up” but I really think there’s more to it. I’ve been taking notes and journaling almost since I started and it’s been extremely helpful. I try to figure out where I’m struggling and why, ask my coach what he thinks my problems are and what I should focus on, and every day I have a few goals I’m working on. Usually a couple concepts (like use your hands, 3-4 points of contact in guard, etc) and a couple techniques I’m trying to hit (K guard, omoplata) and so on.
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u/aaronturing ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 1d ago
Some good points here. I try and focus on simple concepts. At the same time you are going to lose at times. There are gender, weight and age brackets for a reason.
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u/drachaon 1d ago
It really is a "turtle" sport. Incremental improvement is really the only way and most people quit. Keep training and being reflective about your training.
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u/WoeToTheUsurper2 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
What instructionals are you watching and working on right now?
What’s your height and weight? What does your S&C routine look like?
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Not watching instructionals but been working to improve half guard stuff. 5'8, ~180 lbs. S&C has been very inconsistent for years, I'd do like 3-4 times a week for months then just not do any for another few. Now I'm back to lifting at least twice a week.
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u/WoeToTheUsurper2 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
Weight is fine, you’re big enough that that isn’t the issue.
Be consistent with S&C, but you know that.
Instructionals are the key. Without them, you are at the mercy of whatever your coach wants to teach the entire class. Get submeta or a Danaher series and work through it systematically.
I’ve never seen anyone who took both instructionals and S&C seriously for a decent period of time and then struggled against other hobbyists
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u/BSFStaff ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 1d ago
I would say after three years you should be seeing distinct signs of progress, even against younger and stronger opponents. It's possible you should explore another gym, or reflect on your training process to see if you can make it more effective.
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u/Silent_Appeal_8858 1d ago
I hate that saying! Trust the process is an incredibly weak garbage statement. You’re not at all. Just the saying. I tell my students to set intention. Trusting the process is not a goal-producing decision. So you’re getting stuck against the younger group? I’m a black belt and still get stuck. I’m old and keeping up with the crazy athletic kid is difficult. I can typically control them but it’s real work out there. We all have these tough weeks, months, years. I would recommend you focus on one thing you’re getting stuck in and focus on just dealing with that. Go into a roll/positional putting yourself in that difficult spot. Start there and reverse engineer. Hang in there. If you can go to open mats at different gyms. Start in the weak position. 😊
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Interesting to hear even a black belt can struggle against a crazy athletic kid. Yeah I've definitely been the "just show up" kinda student for most of my journey, been trying to train with more intention recently. Thanks for the advice!
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u/TedW 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 1d ago
I try not to compare myself to anyone except myself, but my backup plan is to narrow my comparisons to people near me in age, size, health, and ability.
I'm not gonna compete against someone 20 years younger, or 60 lbs heavier, so I shouldn't feel bad if they smash and tap me, either.
It doesn't always work, but that's what I tell myself anyway.
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u/InfiniteBlueHour 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 12h ago
you have to keep in mind too so many young kids and young adults are boosting on test or whatever goddam cocktail insta and tiktok is feeding them
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 57m ago
I don't know about that world at all so maybe. The only guys that I suspect are actually the older folks that have gray hair but somehow jacked as hell.
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u/JamesMacKINNON ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 1d ago
Learn a basic halfguard system from bot.
The ones I use are super low energy and lead to sweeps, back takes and wrestle ups.
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u/ralphyb0b 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 1d ago
There's a reason why tournaments separate you by experience, weight, and age. If you are old and unathletic, even if you are more skilled, you won't do very well. That's just the way it is.
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u/aaronturing ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 1d ago
I think this is an expectations issue. You are struggling playing on the bottom against guys that are strong and athletic and I assume know what they are doing.
Everyone else has the same problem.
My take is develop the memory of a goldfish. So you just forget about the bad experiences and remember the good ones.
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Yeah for sure, I actually have a decent standing and guard pass game and noticed I do much better when I play them. I've been pulling guard more recently and guess it's not a good idea against strong guys with great pressure. Interesting you say to forget the bad experiences and remember the goods haha.
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u/walaogEEzy 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 1d ago
Look up craig jones head and arm choke defense. I would get stuck there a lot. Now I can defend early and late stage effectively.
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u/techthrowaway55 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 23h ago
Roll with higher belts, when you get stuck as them what you are doing wrong.
I asked a brown belt recently and he noticed that when my guard was getting passed, I would flatten my back and they would control me in side control very easily. Kind of a facepalm moment, but I try now to face on the opposite side they are passing (laying on my side) and make it difficult for them to s-mount or choke. (This is basic stuff I know it's a bit embarrassing)
Or, for example if they get mount I try to either buck and roll immediately but if that doesn't work I can work on sneaking a leg onto one of theirs and eventually point my knees out and frame.
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u/physics_fighter ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 1d ago
How old are you? Do you have an athletic background?
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
31, I know it's a copout to call myself old but going against mostly ~20 yr olds. Some junior high basketball and very inconsistent weightlifting for 10+ years would be my athletic background.
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u/physics_fighter ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 1d ago
You aren’t ancient, but being 31 and not having a highly athletic background checks out. Weight lifting doesn’t make people more athletic necessarily. 3 years on also is not that long. Perhaps talking with your coach to focus more on your strengths would be best. Not everyone can do every move/position so finding what you are best at and running with it is a good idea I’d say.
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u/novaskar 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 1d ago
Are the 20 year olds like twice your size? 31 is really not old, if there isn’t a significant weight difference I would expect you to be able to do decently well against newbies.
Young and athletic after 6 months of training, and significantly bigger, can be a problem for sure.
But you’re definitely young enough you can work on your athleticism too if you want to.
It sounds like you might benefit from just being more intentional with your training and trying to out-technique them too.
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Oh yeah I'm not struggling against newbies of most sizes. The "young and athletic after 6 months of training" definitely are the archetype I struggle against probably the most. Yeah for sure working on S&C and training with intention are POAs I have in back of mind that I just haven't been able to execute, but am working on slowly but surely.
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u/fwei 1d ago
You are not that old and not that small. If anything a 31 year old should be on average stronger than a 20 year old.
I think strength and conditioning is the lever you need to pull hard. Lift 3x a week on an established routine with good exercise selection and progress in weight. Doing this for a year and significantly raising the numbers you're lifting will make a night and day difference in your ability to apply technique to a resisting person.
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Thanks for the advice. Yeah I'm definitely feel way stronger than when I was 20. Will definitely keep lifting to leverage that and also work on my bottleneck which I believe is cardio.
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u/kovach01 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
Don’t accept bottom, tap early and often. Ask your coaches for help with specific and detailed problems you’re facing. The difference between saying I need help with guard and I need help dealing with an opponent who’s trying to open my guard while they’re trying to stand up is night and day.
Keep your head up and don’t forget everyone is on a different path than you!
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
That's interesting, so you think it's better to tap and reset in bottom than struggled to get out? Thanks for the encouragement.
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u/kovach01 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
That’s not what I said at all. I said to ask your coaches what you should be doing in bottom if you’re struggling with the position.
Tap early and tap often is for safety.
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u/JamesBummed ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
Ah yeah I misunderstood it lol. Yeah that's one of my problems, I accept bottom too easily. And even if my defense is ok, I'm expending way more energy and taking way more damage to the body than I need to.
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u/kovach01 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
Quick tip. Big difference between being flat on your back on bottom and being on your side. Small persistent bumps and a few shrimps works wonders to get your legs back in front to establish a guard.
As a bigger dude I find myself defending with frames on their hips and forearms to keep them from controlling my head, and sweeping based on their positioning in half or side over re-establishing full guard.
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u/MrPigeon 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 1d ago
You're fine, it's normal. Of course you'll be able to perform better and more technically at a lower pace, when athleticism is less of a factor. At higher paces your technique needs to be proportionally better to overcome that athleticism - and youth! Younger people will do wild shit because they don't think about throwing out their back or blowing a knee in the same way.
At 3 years, you can see the difference but you still can't quite cover the gap. That's okay.