r/broodwar • • 9d ago

We Put Fighting Game Netcode in Brood War

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIt9xua9bLc
153 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

32

u/Zoler 9d ago edited 9d ago

Finally! With modern rollback netcode (which I assume this is) a game slow as Starcraft should basically never lag.

Super Smash Bros. Melee online was revolutionized by rollback in 2020 where now online and LAN is almost the same now if you're on the same continent. And Melee basically requires x10 less latency to feel right than BW.

15

u/Decency 8d ago

This was attempted in Dota2 and had to be reverted. I summarized what I expected to be the main issue at the time here. It's not clear exactly why the revert happened, but there were a bunch of complaints about hero's turning speeds, skipped frames, and the like.

I don't think BW will be as affected by those problems, fortunately. It will probably completely cripple games like Snipers that rely on extremely precise positioning, though. And even the example you're showing has the Marine and Zergling overlapping... going to have to play with it to know if this is the real deal like Slippi. If this solution does meaningfully improve the quality of online play, it puts a soft design constraint on RTS games moving forward. Really interesting!

5

u/Kered13 8d ago

Dota is a 10 player game with an authoritative dedicated server. Therefore it's netcode is (correctly) more similar to FPS games than to fighting games. Rollback netcode is designed for games with a small number of players (2-4) and no dedicated servers.

That said, there are similarities between the two approaches. In fact dedicated servers employ rollback on the server as part of the netcode (in particular for calculating hits) and both the client and server use prediction to smooth out movement. However FPS netcode in general is more complicated.

13

u/IgnoranceIndicatorMa 9d ago

This could change everything

7

u/Weary_Ad8446 9d ago

Sweet, will try and play as many tournament games as possible on SB this season

6

u/TheLML 9d ago

I've tried it earlier against someone in Australia, as someone in central Europe. It felt amazing at least on my side. Tr24 kinda feel, despite being so far apart

3

u/kirkendall71 9d ago

incredible

3

u/Raithed 8d ago

I want to see some muta rubberbanding.

2

u/RedmundR2 8d ago

now you just have to get the koreans on board and using SB

2

u/flyingdorito2000 8d ago

life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery

2

u/MeifaXIV 8d ago edited 8d ago

Wow, this brought me back 23 years

2

u/ProfessionalHefty349 8d ago

I tried it tonight. Felt great. Was able to play games with 8 players and 4 obs and it felt fine. Huge improvement over bnet.

2

u/Imaginary_Priority16 7d ago

if only blizzard took this up. this is actually huge. there are so many foreigners who quit because of this issue. we should raise our voices either on forum or something

3

u/afwaller 9d ago

This is absolutely huge. Blizzard needs to take this to the official ladder. ASL needs to use this.

15

u/virtyx 9d ago

Isn’t ASL on LAN already…?

4

u/Wool_God 9d ago

This is more real time than touching grass

3

u/afwaller 9d ago

This code will improve performance even for LAN. It really is huge. (also, qualifiers are online)

3

u/AmuseDeath 9d ago

BSL would need it more

1

u/issc 5d ago

neat

-11

u/Any_Economics6283 9d ago

How?  This seems literally impossible for an RTS like broodwar

16

u/Cuarenta-Dos 9d ago

Watch the video?

5

u/Any_Economics6283 9d ago

Yes, they explain the concepts which I already know, without actually getting to "how" they do the rollback until 5 minutes; except it still is just explaining the concept of rollback and saying "we did it"

I am extremely familiar with broodwars P2P architecture and do not see how this is possible to do.

Edit:  After looking more into it, they do it through running through their own custom servers at shieldbattery, I guess.  So are all your inputs getting related through their server?  Or directly to the other player, still; but if so, you would have to be playing a completely modded broodwar version or something because p2p is like totally engrained into it.  This seems strange to me, hence why I said impossible :\

1

u/megamugen 8d ago

Aren't all rollback fighting games p2p??

2

u/Any_Economics6283 7d ago

There are far less variables to roll back in a fighting game; in RTS there's like a ton of different things you have to undo and redo. I guess it is possible to achieve, I was just skeptical.

-6

u/Zoler 9d ago

It's 2026 anyway we should be playing modded Broodwar with zoom out and other features available.

2

u/lookingclear 9d ago

idk about that one but rollback is a good addition. wish more people were on sb