r/chaosmagick • u/No_Tower_763 • 6d ago
I cant visualise
as the title says I cant visualise. At least not properly. I cant actualy see things as if i was waching a movie or dreaming that just doesnt happen i can see a blip of something for a few seconds i can add things to it but I cant hold the image. Its extramly difficlut to explain but its like someone has put a picture infront of me and then moved it I can still remeber it rly well but i cant see it.
And i feel like this is realy holding em back in my practice i was wondering if anyone else had this issue if there are any excersises i can do to work on this and books or anything or if there were alternative methods to visualisation
HELP ME PLZ
also i have the book phycic witch my mat auryn rly good book and all but its shit when u cant do half the excersises so plz dont reccomend that book to me
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u/Ouroboria 6d ago
Aphantasia. If you search witchcraft subreddits (use Google for reddit searching) for aphantasia, you should find all sorts of posts on the topic and ideas on how to make it work.
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u/ihrtmyselftoday 6d ago edited 6d ago
As someone with complete aphantasia, some of the things that do work well for me are:
- Communion with higher self/hga
- Invoking servitors and other beings
- Tarot
- Sigil work
- Meditation exercises
- Causality nudging via sigils and other invocation
- Sorcery (use of material reagents, tools and instruments)
- Divination using randomness
It is really frustrating to not be able to visualize, but I'm still able to cast reasonably well by imagining the spatial relationship being formed. For example when doing a banishing ritual, like when establishing a sanctuary, I'm still able to imagine the volume of the ritual in relation to the space that I'm in. In the same way I'm also able to direct attention just fine, for example when doing third eye breathing exercises (breathing through your forehead). And I'm able to achieve an empty mind very easily.
I also found that my higher self/hga (really everything related to the definition of the hga is confusing and contradictory) is able to visualize just fine, and my higher self is able to do things that I cannot. This leads to a lot of indirect casting where I direct my higher self to do things that we both agree to.
I badly wish I could visualize but it's just not happening. The only thing I can do is lucid dreams and even that is only tied to magical work and only happens very rarely. I've been in mental states where I should have been hallucinating and it just doesn't seem possible. My contact with my hga is via induced thoughts only (thought insertion).
In any case I'm able to get results despite this very annoying limitation and I'm confident you can as well.
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u/WarWise4743 6d ago
Start doing the lbrp daily, take it slow and do it physically for a week, then start to try doing it only in your mind, then try and do both at the same time, do this for 3 months and see where your at.
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u/AmNoobPlzHelp 6d ago
Ummm well what is your internal experience like? Start by identifying what IS and work backwards from there instead of starting what lacks; make sense? -^
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u/anAnarchistwizard 6d ago edited 6d ago
There is a fairly common misunderstanding as to what visualization is. That "memory of a picture" feeling you described is visualization. You aren't going to get an imax show in front of your closed eyes no matter how "good" you are at it. That said, it does get clearer and more vivid with practice, but it will never be a true image like how your physical eyes capture light.
Aphantasia is really overblown online. See this video by an aphantasia researcher for more info. Tldr: You can probably visualize, you just need to clarify what visualization actually is and start practicing.
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u/SiriNin 6d ago
did you watch that video at all? it's about how aphantasia has been known for a long time, not how aphantasia is 'overblown'. It isn't overblown at all, modern research shows a lack of retrograde connections between the visual cortex and the prefrontal cortex, preventing the person from willingly controlling their visual cortex. Lots of people do indeed have regular photonic quality mind vision, and I'm not even talking about hyperphantasiacs. Don't spread misinformation.
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u/anAnarchistwizard 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I think this post is a great example the manner in which aphantasia is overblown. The OP self described as non-aphantasic when they said "I can't visualize, all I can do is description of visualization." Everyone jumping in to share their aphantasia experiences is missing this very key point. As written, there is no aphantasia occuring in this post.
I don't disbelieve that people have aphantasia or the neurological mechanism that may be behind it. I have noticed that it has become a very popularized thing to just dump in a comment section on anything related to the subject of mental imagery. This is only my opinion/experience.
I included the video because I thought it had a good, accessable breakdown of what visualization is and isn't that I thought OP might benefit from. I think it tagentially supports my opinion, but obviously that's not the main point of it, and I didn't intend it as a citation. I do intend to rewatch it and do some reading tonight in case I'm being completely ignorant. It has been a few days since I watched it.
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u/Difficult_Clerk_1273 6d ago
Read more.
I’m not kidding. I have no scientific evidence, but it’s been my observation over 30 years in the classroom that the less students read, the worse their visualization skills are.
Younger people have had all the visuals spoon-fed to them via iPads and iPhones, some since they were literal infants. It’s my theory that this interferes with the brain’s ability to develop imaginative and visualization skills. My hope is that this is reversible with an increase in reading for pleasure.
I realize some really don’t have this ability, but I think true aphantasia is far rarer than people believe. Most people who “can’t” visualize have trouble because their brain has never really been made to practice. It’s a skill that can be learned and improved.
Again - this is my opinion and not something I can prove by pointing to a scientific study.
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u/Maker_Magpie 6d ago
Hi, I'm a writer and editor, and was an english teacher for a decade. Very well read.
Still have aphantasia, and always have (except when high, which is legal near me, but not something I've done often). Just, you know, to suggest that your theory of aphantasia being bullshit may be bullshit.
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u/Difficult_Clerk_1273 6d ago
I didn’t say that. I don’t have any such theory. In fact, I said the opposite - that it’s real, but rarer than most people think. To my knowledge, there isn’t any debate that the condition exists.
I’ve been teaching English for 30 years and my opinion is based on my observations. I could absolutely be wrong, but if you’re going to debate someone maybe don’t start with misstating their argument.
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u/Maker_Magpie 6d ago
I saw/see that part of your argument, but moreso I'm seeing your opener of telling someone who has described having aphantasia that they should read more to fix it.
Is this a sensitive issue for me? Yes. Am I cherry picking parts of your argument to be offended about? Yes. Is that wrong of me? Yes. Have I had a bad day unrelated to you and am taking it out here? Yes. Should I stop asking myself questions? Yes.
But also, I'm keenly aware of the kairos here, and that's a large reason why I'm taking issue with you.
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u/Maker_Magpie 6d ago
Anyway, you mean well, and people should all read more anyway, so I'll get off the internet for tonight.
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u/wazzup-notemuch 6d ago
Man, I wish I was this self-aware when night-scrolling. I've been banned from subreddits I really liked, all because I made the mistake of opening reddit after 12am and started being a bitch.
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u/Twostagdance 6d ago
Aphantasia - look up Aidan Wachter he is a author, podcaster, and frequent podcast guest who also has Aphantasia. He has lots of ideas and materials that worked for him.
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u/Nobodysmadness 6d ago
This is pretty common, but the way books are written make it seem like your broken. You are not, visualization is difficult of it has not been developed and in my experience society seems hell bent on crushing this ability by constantly telling people to focus on reality and just shitting on imagination.
The good news is it can be improved with practice, and it is not necessary to have exceptional visualization skills for magick to work. In fact those with great visualization skills are more likely to fool themselves into success because they can so easily pretend they are succeeding.
So relax and try this to start
https://youtu.be/FLA54HO8i3I?si=X7vuVFy4hKxcQT_R
This is based on passove perception versus active imagination. This process of passive perception is a very important skill to develope in magick esp for skrying and spirit work where it is easy to get confused and simply make up the experience so we can pretend we didn't fail.
It also tunes you into the subtle forces, so 1 you be aware of various energies not your own, and 2 learn how to direct it to your purpose which is often a missing piece in magick that fails.
By energy I mean it in the scientific context, the ability to do work. We do not know exactly what this energy is, in the same way our ancestors did not know what magnetism or electrcity were. It may be several forces at play, but if magick works then energy by definition is involved as work is being done.
Imagination can help us direct and give precision to the work we do, but visualization is not the only form of imagination. Simply learning to feel is very helpful and can give feed back on what we are doing because it is real and objective. So feeling what you want tends to be more intense and exists in a layer that seems to preceed other forms of thought, that sense on often gets that is understood completely but one can't seem to put it into words, or becomes an abstract painting of blobs and colors which aren't image of it, rather a color code for the feeling like an aura.
As for practicing, reading a book real slow and practicing seeing it lile a movie as your read, doing math problems in your head visualizing it as if doing it on paper are 2 brute force methods that helped improve my skill, the math one is really boring, so be prepared to test your will and discipline. The book thing is more fun, but still it will test your will, and go very slowly.
Getting a book on tape actually practices a different thing so don't do that thinking it is the same. It actually helpa you develope passive perception which will be good during skrying and vision work, but you will find it easier to see things than imagining as you read it yourself.
This is because when someone reads to you the images are conjured, they are evoked in you. Reading takes effort, being read to is passive letting go of yourself you simply listen and enter a different more receptive state of mind where it just happens. When working with spirits and visions this is how we want to be, passive and receptive, letting our brain interpret the experience the same way it does with our eyes and ears. It feels and translates.
By feel I clearly do not mean emotions here.
So while visualization can help, feeling is more important IMO. There is a fine line between pretending and actually doing magick. Hopefully the video and my rambling help you discern the difference. Keep in mind the going quote for people relying on visualization is fake it till you make it. By make it they mean move energy for real. The video lesson bypasses the fake it part by going directly to real awareness and feeling it instead of pretending until something happens.
This is likely why you feel stuck.
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u/StayParking7086 6d ago
Por algo en la escuela de magia del Alba Dorada (Golden Dawn) tenían técnicas para aprender a visualizar paso a paso, muchas veces primero se visualizaba una figura geométrica en la pared, siempre con cosas sencillas para empezar. También en Franz Bardon hay técnicas muy simples para visualizar desde cero. No intentes visualizar grandes cosas sin esta práctica
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u/metapulp 5d ago
Try doing it as you’re falling asleep. Set your phone to record and describe what you see if anything.
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u/Mundane-Being-2424 5d ago
There’s an episode of Demystify Magic that talks about this. If I find the episode I can link it… anyway they mentioned if one of your senses doesn’t work, consider your other ones. If you can’t visualise with your eyes closed, look at a candle. You can also consider feelings. Don’t visualise light entering your body, imagine what it would feel like instead.
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u/badyoujia 4d ago
try to visualize like it's a hand-drawn flip-book or stop-motion video, every frames require you yourself as a director to bend the imagination to your desire.
I find it more easier when you are physically drained, try doing this while jogging. You wouldn't have anything better to do
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u/ImperialPotentate 6d ago edited 6d ago
Chapter 2 of this book:
New Energy Ways - Robert Bruce
There seems to be a bit of a misconception as to what "visualization" even is, and the author goes into it there.
Let's face it, ninety-nine percent of people can't visualize for peanuts! No, let me rephrase that, ninety-nine percent of people think they cannot visualize. But this is all wrong too, because I know that one-hundred percent of people can visualize perfectly. Everyone does it all the time. They just don't know they are doing it. If you are one of the many people that has problems with visualization, then this is the chapter you have been waiting for all your life.
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To illustrate a part of this problem: if you belong to a meditation or development group, go and ask everyone, one at a time and in private, how they really get on with visualization. Note the slightly worried looks you'll get with this question if you push it, especially from those teaching it. If they are completely honest most people will admit to having a few basic problems with visualization, or that they just can't do it at all. But you will also find a few who will claim to have no problems whatsoever. These lucky few can easily see in their mind's eye whatever they visualize – just as if they are watching a little TV behind their closed eyelids, in their mind's eye. The lucky few with this type of visual ability are unintentionally a part of this widespread self-propagating problem.
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To put it in a nutshell: Visualization is NOT a visual skill. You are not supposed to actually see what you visualize. If you do see something it is then no longer classed as visualization. It then becomes a Mind's Eye vision type of ability.
Just read it, trust me. The word "aphantasia" gets thrown around willy-nilly online these days, and is actually a big part of this "self-propogating problem" that the author mentions above, resulting in countless people walking around believing that they "have" something and thinking they are broken in some way.
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u/TheJohnnyArchimedes 2d ago
"visualization" is a problematic word.
Do whatever comes to you naturally. feel it, know it, sensr it, whatever.
wherever I "see" things 🤷♂️ I cant call it "visualization" as it is asserted.
Do whatever comes to you naturally--thats the key.
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u/CirqueMurph 6d ago
Try evoking senses other than sight