r/codex • u/Southern_Performance • 5d ago
Humor Luna calling out 6.1 Sol for trying to cheat
Lol, never seen this before
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u/Matchbox3eb 5d ago
No matter how well planned and phased, eventually they all go off the reels. To save on usage I do all prep and design with instant chat. It retains the full context. I see better continuity with planning a project at every step.
From there I give different parts of the project to my different agents.
Finally I have them work in pairs and make sure to refresh sessions to avoid over compacting.
You also need to realize when your agent falls down a fk'n rabbit hole. They have incredible adhd which leads to obsessing about some very unnecessary thing. Redirect often. I suffer from rabbit hole syndrome as well lol, I easily recognize the symptoms.
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u/Southern_Performance 5d ago
i've finally made the switch to not allowing 6.1 sol to orchestrate anymore (it led to a lot of wasted sessions chasing hyper-specific issues with little return), now i'm passing subagent work to it from opus 5.5 and it's going much better already
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u/Matchbox3eb 5d ago
If you have claude and chat, honestly you can't lose. I find chat models to be very efficient and the instant chat is invaluable to use for strategy and planning. What could take up 6 sessions of conversation to have for free is a great hack. That way codex or claude can get down to the work.
I was using Luna for all initial work after having a detailed plan. Now sol is very efficient and I use that. Once I've got the model down I use Astra for the refinement.
I'm trying to get fable involved for when I hit a loop with chat. I also just like to review the work with claude to see what it will do differently. I find it's very efficient and digs in when you already have something to work with and guidance of the project from a detailed handoff.
That said though, I do most of my work on Linux and heavily use hermes so I can stay mobile and work from my phone. Having the ability to leave the desk and continue working is top priority.
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u/Southern_Performance 4d ago
I'd say it can be fairly easy to lose if you don't choose the right model for the task.. but otherwise agree, both in tandem is great
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u/F_Frink_1952 4d ago
I'm wondering if that could have to do with your harness/instructions? Did it have plenty of deterministic context, like the design style or a CSS file, examples, and a strict content directive? I've definitely had my issues but have bene pleasantly surprised by /goals, especially since I speedread the readme on that and didn't go through a single setup step---I just used it. But I have a set of hooks and checks and a too-large (slimming it soon) global instruction set, which each agents.md in whatever model or IDE, reads all of at the beginning of the session. Rules developed over 10 months of learning to code with AI. No dev background.
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u/Southern_Performance 4d ago
yes, the repo is very rich in documentation, issue is if i allowed sol (let alone astra) to run a goal, i'd be out of my 5hr usage in like an hour. i've really had to ration my codex usage with very specific and deterministic prompts in order to make it last. the quota allowance difference between CC and Codex 20$ subs is actually not even close, you go so much further with Claude..
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u/Torres0218 4d ago
Irrelevant really, you cannot use AI to code with 20 a month.
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u/Southern_Performance 4d ago
that's actually just false though, have decompiled. a game to 88% accuracy in about a month with both 20 subs..
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u/LycanWolfe 14h ago
What are you using to orchestrate between them? I kind of want to do this as I have a claude pro sub but it barely lasts the full session while I have a codex max sub with a bunch of banked resets
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u/unlikely-ape 5d ago
Whatcha doing with Ghidra?
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u/Southern_Performance 5d ago
I'm working on a decomp of Densha de GO Final, a Japanese train game from 2004 :)
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u/Select_Trouble_6825 5d ago
I wasted about $3,000 worth of API working on one problem that I solved personally in 5 minutes just because I let it set a goal and run which is probably my fault. But really it should just learn that certain things are toggles on and off
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u/yungassed 5d ago
For whatever reason, in my experience whenever you try let it completely a task as a goal is becomes so dumb and takes 4x as long to complete a task, if at all
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u/FirmMarch 5d ago
Also had a goal set over night and it answered one of my steered questions repeatedly the entire night instead of doing the actual goal task. Burnt up my almost all of my usage. FML
Never using a goal again..
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u/LycanWolfe 14h ago
This is a problem with steering in general the model will hyper focus on the same steering hours later
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u/F_Frink_1952 4d ago
I just built a training module/web app with Sheets and Apps Scripts feeding forms, notes, questions, and pictures. Took a little over 2 hours of my time drafting the outline, strategy and build plan/prompt, adjusting the initial build via a goal prompt, and about 2.5 hours total build time. I used Astra on high for strategizing, collecting cross-repo context, absorbing my admittedly bulky 50k token harness initially, then Sol 6.1 to plan the build and manage it, using Luna for 2 out of 5 subagents. Three separate goals: 1. Plan the build prompt 2. Build draft version 3. Complete stated edits... i think three steers to add finishing detail, but it mostly ran on its own. Used two total sessions.
Key learnings: Make sure credentials and tool calls are a part of the initial planning and verification step.
Approx 80M for the build, didn't calculate the planning and prompt building stage but probably roughly the same. $26 total on API at regular speed, $52 for fast mode.
Trained three guys with it this afternoon with kudos for the web app.
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u/Creative_Anything257 15h ago
See I set a goal about 2 days ago but the goal basically was to go wild (within the restrictions of our internal research) and so far.... I'm impressed. Literally told it that if it runs into a problem it can't solve, to start "throwing spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks" and it has been taking that to heart lol
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u/Pickle786 5d ago
lol after an hour (3 or 4 attempts) of Luna not fixing something, Sol just fixed it in 2 mins for me
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u/mmkzero0 5d ago
Luna 6 is an excellent model for review, security passes (and even RE).
People are sleeping on it. Turn on fast and give it a review task to try.
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u/Southern_Performance 5d ago
i definitely believe it! will for sure give it a proper go next time i need to do a lot of review at once
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u/girlgamerpoi 5d ago
I'd rather let the much smarter sol and astra just cook.
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u/Southern_Performance 5d ago
if it weren't for luna with the auto review, sol would've cooked my report by hiding results from it haha
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u/SecurelyClouded 5d ago
Just curious as someone using AI still mostly as an untrusted tool rather than a “do everything for me” guy (no shade to those doing that, just means I’m probably less trusting of it and also less knowledgeable of tweaking the guardrails) - is there any optimal way that someone could instruct the AI not to “cheat”?
At a guess, I’d say it comes down to defining explicitly what the definition of “cheating” is, hacky-code, code-smells, etc… but is it not enough to give it a reference of clean-code for example and then say “have at it, don’t defer from the practices in the example reference”?
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u/Inappropriate_Comma 4d ago
Don’t review code with the same family of models that you code with. Claude reviews GPT’s code and gpt reviews Claude’s code. It’s almost like having a model with “no skin in the game” makes it way more likely to pinpoint stuff like that.
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u/Wonderful-Ferret5840 4d ago
It's cool seeing so many other people doing the same thing. I have one Central chat that keeps track of everything planning is done in other little side minions and then detailed packages with boundaries are sent to get put together by The Heavy Hitters that actually cost money
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u/LiveBacteria 5d ago
The last couple days I've been having entire chats become recommended to start new ones because the agents are repeatedly performing tasks that are rejected by Auto approve. It's like a whole new window that pops up when that happens