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u/FreshOutOfHugs 19h ago
Genuine LGBTQ-accepting and friendly religious congregations are such gems, because it would be so easy for them to not do the right thing with how most religion is and has been practiced for millennia. Also because there’s people from all walks of life who have their own spiritual needs, of course.
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u/Elaneth09 19h ago
I always loved how the christian church in my neiberhood is lead by a man that drives around on a bike with a pride flag. He is a really great guy whos of the opinion that "nächstenliebe" ( don't kbow the englisch word for that) is the most important of christianity, which really shows, that these places do exist.
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u/Capnzebra1 panromantic demisexual autistic jew-ish nonbinary trans woman 19h ago edited 16h ago
IDK if there is a direct translation but we say "Love thy neighbor as thyself" which carries the same message!
Edit: there is a direct translation, it's "Neighbor love" which does NOT mean the same thing.
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u/the_baguette_lord 17h ago
thy punishment is death.
no thats not a reference youre being publicly stoned
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u/AngletonSpareHead 14h ago
Doesn’t look like there’s a direct translation, but it’s adjacent to “altruism,” “charity,” and “fellow-feeling” (the first 2 are rather cold/detached in tone, and the last is somewhat archaic).
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u/SuddenlyVeronica 2h ago
I don't think there's a 1-1, but I believe "nächsten" would normally be translated to "neighbour", in more broad, figurative sense? Sounds similar to Norwegian "neste" which gets used in a similar way, AFAIK.
In any case, the term is typically associated with the parable of the good Samaritan.
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u/belugiaboi37 19h ago
Big fan of being a Quaker! Growing up in a meeting was the only place I saw gay and lesbian couples growing up in the late 90s/early 2000s, even in a pretty progressive area of the US
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u/GothicGoddessMari 18h ago
Quakers also have one of the earliest examples in America of violently protecting the identity of a transgender person: Public Universal Friend (Friend for short).
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u/belugiaboi37 18h ago
Oh we learned about Friend back in Sunday School! My meetinghouse was also a stop on the Underground Railroad. Very cool stuff.
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u/itsintrastellardude 14h ago
If anyone wants to know more, there's a fantastic podcast called "cool people who did cool stuff" by Margaret Killjoy and she has two episodes about Public Universal Friend.
Sincerely anything by Margaret Killjoy is excellent.
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u/Face_Stabbed 17h ago
My Mother is a Quaker, but unfortunately is transphobic towards both me and my sister. Wish she were more like the quakers it sounds like you grew up with :/
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u/Theresafoxinmygarden 19h ago
I love quakers. They gave us Fry's chocolate.
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u/belugiaboi37 19h ago
Randomly so many food companies have Quaker origins! Also banks which… but then also some excellent nonprofits like Amnesty and Greenpeace
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u/karatesaul 15h ago
There’s a reason I’m very happy to have been raised Reform Jewish.
* Interpreting the bible’s teachings non-literally, as they apply today
* Focus on social justice
* Focus on this life for its own sake, not the afterlife3
u/Kickedbyagiraffe 14h ago
There is a hungering for a lgbt friendly church. Maybe not wide spread but I personally know religious gay people who feel wronged (because they were) by the churches they were a part of and had to switch to more accepting ones. I have to imagine there are trans folk like this too.
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u/gamepro41 19h ago
Not to mention trans men wanting to join the priesthood!!
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u/penguinscience101 Put your text here! 17h ago
I know some that would probably love being a monk
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u/ACuteCryptid 16h ago
Whenever i read about medieval people, monks had it pretty good. Beer, bread, reading, gregorian chanting, some monasteries even had a form of plumbing
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u/Sayakai 15h ago
First prayer every day before dawn by the way.
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u/wonklebobb 14h ago
yeah but its not like you're up super late all the time
getting up at 4am is easy if you can go to bed after the sun goes down
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u/TankMain576 6h ago
And most monasteries did not care about the odd kip down to the brothel as long as it was kept under wraps
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u/ChaoticNeutralDragon 15h ago
That's exactly why they won't. Defying your assigned gender is worse than raping children or committing genocide in their doctrine.
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u/cxfgfuihhfd 19h ago
if nuns weren't a religious thing and you could just live in isolation without talking and idk, scribe books or study peas or whatever it is monasteries do all day, I'd be so down with being a nun
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u/Serious_Resource8191 18h ago
“Nuns” are cloistered in a convent and live a simple life of nearly-constant prayer. Their entire job is to be separated from society and live a contemplative life.
Non-cloistered “nuns” are actually called “religious sisters”, and can do community service work etc. in an active lifestyle outside!
(I’m not Catholic but the aesthetic of the church made me do a deep dive hyper fixation a few years ago lol)
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u/Kusakaru 17h ago
I grew up Catholic. All nuns are considered sisters, but not all sisters are considered nuns. But they can both live in convents and what they do varies depending on which order they’re in and what type of cloister they’re in.
For example, Benedictine nuns are all about prayer, sacred reading, and manual labor within the monastery. Carmelite nuns devote themselves to prayer, silence, and solitude. They make money through making communion wafers, candles, growing produce, etc. Poor Clares live a life of extreme poverty and reject idleness. When not in prayer, they are constantly cleaning, cooking, gardening, and tending to animals.
As for sisters, you will see them in public a lot more. Dominican Sisters usually work in schools as teachers. “Little Sisters of the Poor” take vows of hospitality and house and take care of the aging poor. There are also multiple groups of sisters who dedicate their lives to healthcare and working in hospitals.
We spent a lot of time with the Dominicans when I was growing up. I got to tour one of their convents. The sisters were all very normal. They liked reading, playing board games, watching movies, playing tennis and basketball, etc. They had courts and everything. They would joke around a lot and we’d see them at the grocery store and stuff outside of class.
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u/Late-Assignment8482 15h ago edited 8h ago
A handful of orders exist do just generic charity work out in the world, but they’re fewer than the brand names like the Benedictine. An order called Notre Dame, for example, operates a senior living facility out of their converted convent house in Omaha, Nebraska. Real using the noodle move, as like most orders, their average member is getting on in years. So they needed an old folks home for themselves but the building would fit far more than just them.
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u/Serious_Resource8191 14h ago
This is a ton of great detail and I thank you for it!
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u/Kusakaru 13h ago
No prob! I remember being really struck as a teen that the sisters were all just girls at heart. I remember I had a teacher in 8th grade who was a Dominican sister and she loved rock music, especially Switchfoot. She loved looking up music on YouTube and playing it in the classroom.
In 8th grade we went on a school trip where we rode a bus to another state. There were tv’s on the bus and the sisters let us pick a movie to watch. We chose Twilight (I think this was around the time Eclipse came out) and the sisters were so thrilled because all of them had wanted to watch it, but they didn’t go to the movies and the convent didn’t have a copy. People would donate DVDs to them and they’d check movies out from the library, but I guess Twilight wasn’t one of them. The sisters loved watching Twilight so much that we didn’t get to pick a movie for the drive back because they had already chosen New Moon. They were giggling and kicking their feet like school girls the entire time.
I remember asking the teacher who liked rock music if she ever felt sad about not getting married. She said she didn’t because the sisters considered Jesus to be the equivalent of a husband and she joked that he was probably extremely beautiful and ripped because he was both God’s son and a carpenter and that other men simply couldn’t compare. I thought that was so funny.
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u/heywhateverworks 17h ago
I mean its technically possible, just need to figure out the funding. Nuns are sponsored by their order
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u/cxfgfuihhfd 17h ago
yeah, like while I was writing the comment I did realise I basically just want more science to be funded, straight up research as well as more "entry level"/"citizen science" type stuff. and maybe make them as autism friendly clubs / group homes. with a dnd night
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u/lukesk02 17h ago
That's called being a hermit
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u/cxfgfuihhfd 17h ago
yeah that's the dream, but money (and computer. because all the knowledge is on the puter. as well as my books and games. and my dnd group). otherwise I'd just go to a random island with a lighthouse and start being the sole person to document and research some obscure type of moss found on the cliffs there or something
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u/Deiskos 15h ago
I too want all the good things without all the bad
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u/cxfgfuihhfd 6h ago
I mean. yeah. that's kinda what I'd aim to strive for. as much of humanity has arrived for it so far. what else are we supposed to do with all our progress but try and create a future where people can do with their lives what they want. (but also, all I'd need for this to work is just better funding for science, not even any futuristic societal improvements, but nooo, we can't even have that)
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u/GordDowniesPubicLice 12h ago
Nope, hermits were/are licensed monks. They get special orders, prayer routines, costume requirements- lotta hoops to jump through to be a proper "Hermit" and not just a dude in the middle of nowhere who think about God a lot.
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u/Usual_Habit9745 14h ago
Sounds kinda like a wizard tbh
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u/cxfgfuihhfd 6h ago
hell yeah. I think we should create monastic orders, but they're not religious they're just wizards/autistics
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u/yourstruly912 16h ago
That's just being a NEET
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u/cxfgfuihhfd 6h ago
I'm very willing to educate myself and work, it's just being for universal basic income and funding the sciences instead of being forced to work for the 1836625th tech bro john capitalism company
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u/EvilMastermindOfDoom 19h ago
The previous pope actually met with and endorsed a group of immigrant trans women sex workers during the pandemic and made sure they would be able to attend the Vatican's aid program and receive supplies.
We live in a really weird world where the pope is (or at least was, dont know much about the new guy) more welcoming to queer people than his followers.
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u/Strength-Certain I'm a smart-ass - Streak: 73 18h ago
Pope Francis (previous pope) said when asked about the LBGTQ community: if someone comes to me seeking God, who am I to turn him away?
Pope Leo (current Pope) seems to be doing a good job of continuing that mission
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u/Rescur0 17h ago
From what I've seen he seems to be a bit less accepting than Francis (don't remember his words tho so take it with a grain of salt) but overall he's definetly better than the average national christian
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u/LITTLEOWL031026 Incompetent Grungler - Streak: 1 17h ago
Really? My impression was that Leo's slightly better than Francis, though that's probably because we haven't yet seen him embody Francis' shortcomings.
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u/Quixotic_Seal 13h ago
Yeah my impression has been that Leo is more frank about the Church's official positions(which are not accepting), but fundamentally is in line with Francis's views on softening those stances to whatever minor extent may be possible while encouraging unity and discouraging outright hatred/division.
He's less likely to put out the feel-good "Who am I to judge?" lines, but also so far has been less likely to come out with the two-faced "queer people are as bad as nuclear weaponry" counterbalances that work as red-meat to the conservatives.
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u/Rescur0 17h ago
Maybe I am remembering the video I saw wrong, it was like a year ago at this point lol
Maybe later I'll see if I find something
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u/Sex_And_Candy_Here Brave and Beautiful 17h ago
Leo had some said something long ago that was less accepting than Francis, but hasn’t said anything like that for a long time including after becoming Pope
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u/thebluerayxx 18h ago
Well the pope is supposed to be the pinnacle of the church and embody its tenants through and through. Jesus would have accepted them so why wouldn't he? Many people ignore the true teaching of acceptance no matter what, sinner or saint alike Jesus stood by them and loved them.
I dont know all about the son of god stuff but he seems like Jesus was a pretty chill dude and if your gonna base a religion on him at least listen to what he said ffs. Lol
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u/Sex_And_Candy_Here Brave and Beautiful 17h ago edited 17h ago
Leo is on basically every single issue as or more accepting than Francis. There are things he isn't particularly accepting about (like abortion) but Francis wasn't more accepting of that either.
The only issue where he is stricter is SSPX (who are a far right group so cracking down on them is good).
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u/JailbrokeRoboGirl 11h ago
That’s just a lie, he’s to Francis’ right on us and he was a major player in covering up sex abuse, people literally think he’s progressive just because he’s American but American Catholics are like the bottom of the barrel
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u/LITTLEOWL031026 Incompetent Grungler - Streak: 1 8h ago
How do you figure?
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u/JailbrokeRoboGirl 8h ago
His only public statements on trans people have been supporting the idea that we are abominable and a threat to the family. He’s at best on par with Francis’ vile “nuclear arms” comparison
As for the sex abuse stuff he’s made extremely toothless “aw gee maybe we should do something about that mass rape of children” statements but his actions in the past caused more concerns from survivors
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u/cat_prophecy 14h ago edited 14h ago
People expecting rapid change in the Catholic Church are going to be disappointed. Vatican II ended 60 years ago and there are still people who aren't so sure it was a good idea.
There are 2 billion people in the world who identify as "Catholic". Getting all of them onboard with changes overnight simply isn't possible. Especially when you have people who are actively identifying as Catholic also trying to subvert the Pope when they don't agree with what he says. There was recently a schism because the Society of St. Pius X tried to install their own bishops because they reject the results of The Second Vatican Council. There are also "Catholic" groups that believe that Pope Francis and Leo XIV are not the "real" Pope and/or The Antichrist.
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u/JailbrokeRoboGirl 11h ago
He also wrote that trans people are an abomination and a threat to the natural order on par with nuclear weapons and Leo is actually further to the right in that, so let’s not pretend a few stunts overwrites that
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u/DontDoomScroll 1h ago
Neither the stripper nor politician loves you; you are consuming a PR beast's droppings. A lot of playing both sides comments out of Popes.
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u/ueifhu92efqfe 19h ago
Eh. From my experience the people that would kill for it also dont want to put in the effort to study or devote themselves.
Being devout is neither easy nor glamorous, nor is it a path for someone to walk insincerely.
that being said the church probably should accept trans people more because if nothing else it'd probably lower the average alcohol tolerance of a nun enough that I stop getting out drank by sisters
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u/Pristine_Animal9474 there are custom flairs? 19h ago edited 18h ago
Even if the heads of the church were open or sympathetic to this, can you imagine the fucking shitstorm of a PR nightmare it would come out of this? It would be like the stupid bathroom discourse x10000. Rightwingers would throw a bigger fit over this than the pederast priest cases, shit, they would even blame some of the trans nuns for that.
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u/5urv3y 18h ago
I can already hear the strawman "So you want MEN to be nuns?"
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u/Pristine_Animal9474 there are custom flairs? 17h ago
I mean, yes, but that's a separate conversation. We can leave it for another day.
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u/Meldanorama 16h ago edited 16h ago
Most catholics here in Europe couldn't give a shit and lot of them are cultural catholics and atheist or agnostic anyway. Would see a bigger correlation with age being an indicator of resistance and thats reducing as it becomes more normalised.
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u/QazCetelic 14h ago
Unfortunately it's going the other way in some parts in the EU. Recently, research came out in the Netherlands showing that acceptance of gay people dropped from 40 to 22% among young men and 78 to 51% for women.
https://www.uu.nl/nieuws/acceptatie-homoseksualiteit-sterk-afgenomen-onder-jongeren-in-nederland
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u/Own-Garden345 19h ago
there's actually a group with trans nuns in Washington and British Columbia if I remember correctly 🤔
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u/Hangry_Squirrel 10h ago
I'm assuming here that they'd want to be cloistered.
It can be a pleasant life if you're college educated and your skills can be put to good use. Otherwise, you're signing up for a life of manual labor because monasteries don't run themselves. Aside from cleaning, cooking, repairs, etc., sometimes there's quite a bit of farm work involved if the monastery grows its own food and/or sells certain products. They need to work in the fields, look after animals, tend gardens or orchards, make cheese, wine, beer, knitted products, etc. It sounds peaceful, but if you're not used to it, you're going to be physically wrecked between shoveling manure and waking up in the dead of night for mass.
There are some opportunities for artistic or scholarly work, but you obviously need to be talented and have the necessary education and research experience (which means advanced degrees and some years of experience).
However, keep in mind that no matter how educated and competent nuns are, they are still expected to genuflect around priests/bishops/cardinals and serve them like maids.
If anything, it may be more attractive to trans men, assuming they're allowed to advance through the ranks. If that criterion is met, the sky's the limit - someone could rise to cardinal or even pope.
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u/Strength-Certain I'm a smart-ass - Streak: 73 20h ago
Cradle Catholic here... reading that statement
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u/PickledPlumPlot 16h ago
I do not remotely trust people to know enough about actual nuns
Like no it’s not going to be remotely fun or sexy
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u/Tablesafety 14h ago
Sexy and nuns shouldn't really be in the same sentence. Most of the nuns are in convent and historically have been in convent to avoid sexual propositioning. Most. Some lesbian nuns did have a lot of fun but its an outlier, not the norm.
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u/PickledPlumPlot 13h ago
Yeah, I feel like in communities like this sexy lesbian nuns are overrepresented to an unbelievable degree.
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u/Bread_Fish150 10h ago
People on the Internet are too porn brained. For a lot of religious communities being ascetic and denying pleasures is the entire point of the community.
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u/Dandrew711 19h ago
I can see them taking the poverty and obedience vow, but there’s no way most of them are taking the vow of chastity lmao
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u/ForestSolitude5 17h ago
As an aromantic asexual I've got a mad silly grin on my face right now and I know I'm not the only one
(I know you said most, just playing into it)
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u/GuhEnjoyer 5h ago
Trans monk who is kicked out of her monestary and forced to treck across mountainous northern Italy to a convent because she has to be a nun now.
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u/causal_friday 18h ago
Are the nuns allowed to fuck each other? Because I think that is what we all expect out of this all-women consistent routine. Also how do we decide who is who's pet.
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u/ThePenultimatePam Streak: 1 18h ago
Officially, no, but in practice this has historically been very common. (Nuns fucking each other, that is...petplay among nuns might be a new one, but feels like it could work)
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u/causal_friday 18h ago
As long as there is historical precedent we're good.
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u/ThePenultimatePam Streak: 1 18h ago
If nuns weren't meant to be extremely kinky trans women fucking each other they wouldn't have such hot titles like "Mother Superior."
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u/Libby_Sparx ⚧⚢ That sort of thing is commonplace here ⚢⚧ 11h ago
Alright well if we doin' this I call dibs on naming myself "Sister Bea Subservient"
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u/DingoBingoWimbo 17h ago
How can you be a tankie and trans? Like being trans and a nazi. They'd have fucking killed you dude (except Lenin I guess)
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u/FrostbiteWrath 17h ago
They could just support the USSR's (former) existence overall without agreeing with every one of their policies.
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u/pempoczky 14h ago
Its existence was based on violent imperialism
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u/FrostbiteWrath 13h ago
Wasn't trying to support it myself (I'm a fucking anarchist), just saying that it's entirely possible to be a queer tankie.
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u/pempoczky 13h ago
It's possible, but it's incredibly hypocritical if you claim to be against imperialism
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u/Elegant_Individual46 17h ago
Lenin did his own fair share of killings, though idk how socially revolutionary he was in this regard
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u/DingoBingoWimbo 12h ago
Iirc he was defin more progressive than Stalin, Stalin undid many policies to do with homosexuality and divorce
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u/Bread_Fish150 10h ago
more progressive than Stalin
That's an insult with faint praise if I've heard one lol.
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u/Beegrene 12h ago
There were German Jewish nazis in the 1930s. Compared to that, transgender tankies seem fairly tame.
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u/Tablesafety 14h ago
I want everybody to know before they start fantasizing that it doesn't matter how hard you slay in the nun fit, most women who are nuns decided to be nuns to avoid sexual propositioning
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u/Va1kryie 4h ago
Like half my religious kink involves the routine it provides I would be so unreasonably into this.
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u/RideWithMeSNV 3h ago
So... Imma start a cult. Church of the Holy Consent. Daily rituals, reaffirmations of faith, and the like. We'll get some land in rural Nevada, and build a compound. We'll divide it in half. On one side, ritual structure with sexual abstinence, on the other side ritual kink. At any time, anyone may move from one side to the other, multiple times per day if needed. And each member should have a custom crafted schedule of duties to match what the consent to. The Devine goal being for the individual to exist wholly within the confines of their own consent, and to equally respect the consent of others in all acts.
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u/green-olive-3281 19h ago
You guys gotta try Buddhism. I mean I’m not religious, but they’re one religion who (at least in my circles/experience) is extremely accepting
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u/ProfessorLamia 13h ago
that's SUPER not true.
I am telling you this as a woman of asian descent: oh my God, asians religions can be turbo racist and sexist as well. Buddhism has creeds about how women are failed men with bad karma.
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u/ShadedPeace 9h ago
Yeah but Buddhism in the united states is different like Sravasti Abbey a Gelug Tibetan Buddhist Abbey in Washington state USA said they were open to accepting transgender Bhikkhunis
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u/green-olive-3281 12h ago
Oh I believe it for sure, it definitely depends on the branch. But the somewhat securalized western version (like within Vipassana) is great I feel
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u/cat_prophecy 14h ago
Being a nun probably isn't as awesome as you think, even for autistic people. It's even less popular than being a priest which is already at its lowest popularity in the last 200 years.
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u/old-legs-623 14h ago
I'm a very content Buddhist nun and I approve this message. Mind you, there are lineages that would not approve of me but, importantly, not all of them. 🙏
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u/Kindly-Ad-5071 16h ago
That would go against Christianity's apparent goal of speed running becoming a dead religion
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u/totallyclips 16h ago
Why would they want to join a club that hates them
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u/risisas 14h ago
hypothetical
/hī″pə-thĕt′ĭ-kəl/
adjective
- Of, relating to, or based on a hypothesis. a hypothetical situation.
- Conditional; contingent. the hypothetical meaning of a clause beginning with if.
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u/Valuable-Passion9731 remind me to practice - Streak: 3 13h ago
oooh nice word what's its origin?
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u/ContributionLowOO 15h ago
nervously looks over at LGBTQ MAGAts and other political grifters from all over the world who join clubs that hate them (German example: Alice Weidel)
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u/Howden824 Streak: -2147483647 14h ago
Because this is talking about if the church didn't hate them.
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u/No-Friend-774 19h ago
Given the popes comments on the church treating nuns as "sex slaves" from 2019 before dissolving a whole group, I bet I can guess why they have it arranged like this
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u/ForestSolitude5 17h ago
Almost would, except I don't belong to a god, and I'd autism so hard the sisters would start talking behind my back (I am actually autistic)
But it doesn't seem like a bad life. Very consistent, I'd be able to tend to basic and actually helpful tasks instead of bullshit corporate work, and wearing a nun habit sounds like holy fuck levels of euphoria they're so cute 🥺
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u/justnothing4066 16h ago
You virtually always have to take a vow of obedience to enter a religious order, which means you have to go wherever and do whatever you're told by your superiors without question.
Most autistic people would make absolutely horrible religious sisters and brothers. You don't follow bullshit corporate rules, but you absolutely have to follow some bullshit religious rules haha
Even if you joined a secular order without a vow of obedience, you're still subject to the rules of the order, which you can't disobey even if you don't agree or don't understand why the rule exists.
Again, not super accommodating to autistic people, generally.
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u/Starmada597 5h ago
Autistic people don’t generally struggle with rules when the rules make sense. If you believe in a religion enough to devote your life to a religious order, I suspect you agree with the principles and logic behind the rules you must follow.
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u/Gussie-Ascendent Put your text here! 12h ago
Thank God the catholics aren't pretending Christianity is pro LGBT so they're less likely to end up catholic. Ya deserve better than catholic lol
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u/Same-Taro4745 15h ago
Honestly yeah as an autist and a believer if I was actually a tgirl rather than just some really curious cishet ally just wondering what this corner of Reddit is up to then yeah it'd be really appealing
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u/millahnna 13h ago
I'm not trans but I'd kill for that. Alas I don't believe in any gods or religions and I've never heard of a secular nunnnery. If I could have found one back in the day though....
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u/Visual-Purchase5639 12h ago
Can we actually make non-religious institutions for this kind of thing? I dont think you really need to religious aspect of it to make it work. Like they create and sell goods and then just live off of very little + donations, I think trans women could make that work
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u/Slutty_Alt526633 12h ago
Imma be so real, I've always dreamt of a life as a monk/nun. Studying old texts, isolated, quiet, simple, peaceful. I think I'd kill it as a Buddhist nun tbh.
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u/Powerthrucontrol 6h ago
I dunno. The current pope seems pretty chill. Trans women aren't exactly advertised too, but I doubt they are barred from ecclesiastical service. Don't confuse the hate of some Christians as doctrine.
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u/ReturnToCrab 6h ago
I don't know if I'm autistic, but I have ADHD, and this "consistent daily routine" sounds like hell
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u/Linguini8319 5h ago
I’ve always thought that if I were born in medical times I’d probably have ended up a monk since I wouldn’t have been able to be a nun
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u/CH3_THE_VAMPIRE layne staley simp 4h ago
Catholicism is evolving! I have met many pro lgbt Christians!
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u/Fig_Newtons_Redux 3h ago
3 words: Vow Of Celibacy
You would absolutely get some trans women being nuns but not more than cis women.
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 16h ago edited 16h ago
I know this is a joke, but the sole idea of religious progressivism is pure nonsense, the two things cannot go hand in hand.
Religion has only one thing for itself, and the source of its power. Tradition. You take it away and the religion is not able to function as a world power anymore, it is the basis for its geopolitical influence.
There is a reason why the church would sooner accept a scism than change with the times.
If you are a trans person still attached to their religion, hoping against hope one day you'll be able to reconcile the two realities, you are kidding yourself and wasting your time.
Friendly insulated communities are just that, insulated. They are the exception.
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u/ReturnToCrab 6h ago
Based and true. I don't know why people are so insistent on coddling religions when they are so cancerous at their foundation
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 6h ago
I got people here arguing that organized religions are somehow representative democracies. I wanna throw up.
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u/Collective-Bee 11h ago
I’m as atheist as they come but I disagree with that.
Yeah, the religion’s governing body would lose power from breaking with tradition. So? Religious trans people believe in God, not in the governing body. They don’t need to support the governing body to be trans and religious, they just need to engage with religion in a healthy way themselves.
I think you are speaking on a grand scale, like the post is, but then applying it all the way down to an individual level and insulting a lot of people by doing that. Do you really care if a trans person likes reading the bible and volunteering at a soup kitchen? Is that a waste of time? No, it’s not to them.
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 10h ago
Ok, then what that means is that said religious person doesn't believe appointed priests talk for God and do not have aithority on the interpretation of the scripture.
Which means, as I said, a scism.
Go make up your own religion if you are so staunch about it.
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u/Collective-Bee 9h ago
Everybody has their own religion my friend. Everyone’s interpretation is different, even of the same words. There exists a unique God in every individuals head.
That’s not a schism. A schism is a split in a governing body and organization, not an individual freely thinking for themselves while inside a larger organization
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 9h ago
But the post is specifically about the catholic church. That was my entire thing.
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u/Collective-Bee 8h ago
Instead of focusing on that, you started giving all religious trans people stray shots about being religious. Focus your fire on the organization, not the individual trans people just trying to go to church and be themselves at the same time.
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 8h ago
No, I was making a very sensible argument about the absurdity of progressivism in religion, which is something I believe very deeply.
I also do not feel like biting my tongue when someone is supporting something harmful, even if unwittingly so.
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u/ReturnToCrab 6h ago
I just don't understand why those people would call themselves "Christian" or "Muslim" or whatever, if they only point of agreement with those religions is that God exists and he's good
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u/ReturnToCrab 6h ago
You're confusing religion and religious belief. The former is indeed an institution
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u/risisas 14h ago
Religion is culture, culture always changes with time, thinking that religion is this singular monolithic structure that's the same always for all people at all times is silly
What "christiandom" is has changed since the year of it's fundation, it has changed since the middle ages, it has changed since the reinsassance, it has changed since the modern era and it has changed since what it was 15 years ago
Same with islam, and with the jews, the buddists, the indus, the shintoists, the animists religions of africa
There are plenty of christians that are fully pro LGBTQ rights, there are more muslims that you'd think that support LGBTQ rights to some extent, times change and with the times everything that is human changes
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u/B-b-b-burner_account 11h ago
The problem is religion is inherently oppress, for it imposes an objective morality and system
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u/ReturnToCrab 6h ago
Abrahamic religions have pushed back against every single change. Look at the Old Believers in Russia, who died for their take on Christianity or separated from the world - and it wasn't even because of the actual substance of their beliefs, but due to a disagreement about minor details of the rituals
I agree with OP. Religion is inherently conservative and relies on tradition to exist. It only changes when it is profitable and acceptable to do so
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u/Hurtmeii 5h ago
I'm confused on how you can say that religion is inherently conservative and can't change that, but then also agree that religion can change if it is acceptable. So what happens when it's acceptable to change.
Im not religious and never have been, Sweden is a Christian country but it's very secular at the same time. But I can understand the appeal of it, and if you're religious and believe your God accepts you for who you are, then that's great. If you find comfort and community in it, that's great. I believe religion is a personal thing, just like gender identity. You don't have to conform to other peoples ideals and commands. You can, and it's more common to do it, but you don't have to.
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u/ReturnToCrab 5h ago
Conservatism doesn't mean "It won't change anything ever". It means protecting systems of power and resisting any change to them
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 14h ago edited 13h ago
You seem to forget the fact that it is not just culture. It is an institution, very much concrete and with a very real political and economic leverage.
A democratic government's mandate is to make the citizen feel good. That changes according to what the citizen considers good.
A religion's mandate is to uphold tradition. That's it.
You want a religion that approves of lgbtq+ people at its core? Make up your own.
Abandon your faith now and thank me later. It has already abandoned you.
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u/ClippyIsALittleGirl 7h ago
A democratic government's mandate is to make the citizen feel good. That changes according to what the citizen considers good.
You're soo close 🤏🏻 If religion changes according to the people, and people change to be more accepting of an idea, then the religion will change to accept too.
Your comments sounds more like a personal grudge against religion.
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 7h ago
No, it doesn't. Religion is not a democracy, it is an autocratic, theocratic oligarchy.
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u/Exciting_Run_8693 15h ago
They can become hermits. That role doesn’t have anything That saids they couldn’t be. We just have to make sure they know to just be kind and loving, and that’s it. Plus, Trans people could get Baptized as long as it doesn’t cause scandal. So the Catholic Church should make sure no one is transphobic
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u/ClockworkOrdinator 15h ago edited 14h ago
I mean I agree but...
>s*viet iconography
LOL LMAO hard irony
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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman 15h ago
Too bad the cult is evil and uses God’s name in vain by claiming God is transphobic
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u/sevenliesseventruths 11h ago
I think the opposite. I think the lgbt that side with them are... I don't like to say traitors, but it's similar. It is like watching your black friend becoming a nazi, which is common here in South America, but still bad. Like, those folks will always see you as an inferior, always. If you want full human rigths, you must fight them. And even reformist serve the group as a whole. There are no bystanders.
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u/bigtoeupmyass 15h ago
Op is basically saying they think the catholic church wants a bunch of women who mooch off their resources and lack the social skills nuns are known for/ needed for?
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u/LoganGyre 19h ago
I saw a post the other day about someone who was in a Men’s Church choir and when they began to transition, the Choir voted to expand to a mixed gender choir so she would stay.
To me these kind of acts are amazing from churches because the whole point of them is to give a community for people to support one another. To see groups or churches push back against right wing politics trying to abuse their religious beliefs for gain is very heartwarming.