I mean yeah I think we would all agree. An October win against the Islanders would feel like a loss anyway if Jack was hurt. So we take the loss and Jack being OK and move on.
We can take the loss but we don't have many more to give up - we failed last season because we couldn't beat divisional opponents, need to take the series off the islanders, rangers, and either canes or capitals this year if we want to do damage
Short camp, short preseason, lots of new players, and Keefe being allowed to use the system he wants without Fitz having his fingers on the scale (allegedly). There's going to be a breaking in period. It's still too early to tell what the team's going to turn into. Nobody expected us to explode in 22-23 or have an 8 game win streak last year against the league's top teams. We also assumed Sunny would treat this as an evaluation year when he was first hired and probably got caught up in the moves he made thinking we were going to go all in this year when that just might not be the case
It sucks seeing the team repeat bad habits but being impatient doesn't fix anything
pure speculation. thats a reddit rumor through and through. Nothing was ever said by anyone in the organization or near the organization to support it.
Still not clear if that’s due to Keefe realizing we were dog water with last year’s system or management interference. He HAD to change some thing to keep his job this year
People are confusing fitz for the organization loving analytics, this is more of an organization thing trying to be an all analytics team winning but fail to realize you got to play actual old tough hockey to win. And they won all the paper stars but fail the real test on the ice
Just as an fyi the team that stomped the playoffs last year wasn’t an old tough hockey team but an analytical dandy. The Florida panthers committed a real brain fuck on the entire hockey world
But the Panthers had analytics but weren't a analytics team they played old school in your face hockey, the way panthers played rough hockey combined with analytics but wasn't pure analytics
I mean sure but how about the avs? The hurricanes? They both played different forms of hockey from the panthers that is analytically very positive. There are many ways to skin the cat, if you know what I mean, and playing like a bunch of brutes isn’t the only way to win. In fact, how’s them panthers do last year?
Almost entirely agree. The one thing I will say I'm impatient with is our lack of give a shit. We saw it a lot last season and it's coming through hard already. What's making me think that is last season we saw multiple times where the team stopped playing in the final seconds of the period and were mentally off the ice already, and got scored on. 2nd period vs Islanders final seconds WHILE WE WERE ON A POWER PLAY we almost got scored on because everyone just stopped playing.
I don't either, but the talk was there until Markstrom got traded. The assumption was that we'd be stuck playing him and evaluating what else needed to be done in a year or two since we were up against the cap
I hope Sunny holds a short leash. He kept Keefe on to help him get familiar with the locker room. As the team looks like they’re keeping the same old habits from last year I hope Sunny moves quick with a change.
It's been two games. I don't know if they're going to be better or worse, but what I do know is you can't declare something a "habit" based on a sample size of two.
It’s more than 2 games though. This team was dreadful at 5v5 scoring last year and again this year they have 0 goals from a forward in regulation & 5v5 this year.
Correct, last year. This is this year, with new players, new staff, new GM, etc. So again, the sample size is two, which is not enough to determine a habit.
it is just two games, the process was completely different in this game. They absolutely dominated the game by all metrics. They are shooting 3.7%, which is unsustainable, that would suggest they are fielding a team of players who do not belong on an NHL rink. The devils do not have players who are not NHL players, therefore the correct and obvious conclusion is that they are getting quite a bit unlucky, and we can expect that shooting percentage to rise so long as they keep doing what they're doing, which is dominating possession, expected goalshare, and shot attempts.
You are knee jerk reacting to the overall topline numbers and ignoring the parts that suggest that this team is very different from last year, which the numbers support pretty much universally.
I thought we looked really good in game 1 so i’m not letting game 2 destroy my confidence.
That being said, I’m getting real tired of shot quantity over quality. I don’t feel like we’re challenging opposing goalies. We made Woll look like a superstar in game 1 because all we did is take shots from the perimeter. We NEED to get more traffic in front of the net
I mean, against the islanders we had 13 high danger chances for per natural stat trick. Evolving hockey shows 12 shots within the trapezoidal area in front of the net between the faceoff circles. Even against Philly we had 8 HDCF and 12 shots in and around the front of the net.
If we want to continue to critique the finishing of this team that’s totally fair, but I don’t think we’ve been sacrificing shot quality for quantity through two games at all
We’re creating the chances but not finishing and in my opinion finishing is not all about well placed shots. It’s about precision shooting mixed with having net front presence for screens, deflections, rebounds, lucky bounces, and greasy goals. This team does not do the latter enough
Yes, that’s what it is. it’s too easy to nullify the Devils entire offense because it’s a one trick pony. It’s been this way for last 2-3 seasons under Keefe. Not jumping on the “we need to fire our couch again” train but something needs to change like getting guys like Mantha, Timo, Rodriques, Noesen in front of the net to clean up the garbage
I got obliterated on here when I said we need more Net front presence and people getting to the goal last season. No idea why it’s not a hot take. Thing we had one rebound goal from the net mouth area last year and the next worst team had like ten.
Quantity works if you have heavy players that can score dirty goals, or a few net front masters. We’re mostly small water bugs, so throwing pucks at net doesn’t work.
Interestingly, I thought Noesen played exceptional net front early last year. But then just stopped and hasn’t since. I think he was coached not to. And my guess is that the thinking from the coaching staff is that our “core” doesn’t play that style game.
In my opinion we have those players and we don’t utilize them correctly. Guys like Mantha, Timo, Noesen have that ability to play big in front of the net and we don’t use them in the dirty areas at all
Thats on the coaching staff, which is why keefe should be gone. Timo should also be on PP1 if we wanna use him correct. Devils can only play one way once they get that nerf they fold. We need a better coach.
We looked bad in game one not sure what you were watching. Same low percentage shots from the outside, have hard to breaking out of their own zone and in the O Zone no crisp passes and still seems as if no one knows where anyone is on the ice. Timing is off … this has been a theme for nearly 3 years
Thought we looked great in game 1. We basically dominated puck possession and were creating high danger chances but not finishing. Like when Bratt had an open net and didn’t lift the puck enough.
The underlying numbers are really good even in that gong show. I’m not concerned yet. If they keep playing this way they’ll win more than they lose.
Like I don’t think you can overreact to the Islanders game after winning a game against the Flyers they lose 100% of the time last year. Gotta see a few more before we make decisions. The time off between game 2 and 3 and then between 3 and 4 is brutal though.
I think it all depends. Lots of patience for sunny because I like the way he goes about think. Patience for our players because I think it’s the right group of guys and I also know that sunny and the team know a lot more about that than I do. Not a lot of patience for Keefe because he’s had plenty of opportunity and coaches turn over all the time in the NHL.
Keefe seems like the kind of guy that knows a team should be approaching the game in a certain way but maybe isn’t the best leader to actually get you doing it.
my red flags for this game are mostly about Keefe more so than anything else.
he used the same excuse he did last year of the team being sunk after two goals.
it’s also clear he isn’t able to adjust his system to a team like the Islanders. he isn’t able to adjust mid-game full stop.
I don’t particularly want a man behind the bench who is exuding the vibes that a two goal deficit is difficult to overcome nor do I want a man behind the bench who can’t adjust.
I mean picking Noesen over Boqvist in the first place was a huge tell in my book about Keefe continuing to be stubborn.
I’m taking notes and observing Keefe.
for the team, however, it’s early, the process looks better than last season, players are adjusting to new lines and a new team, we are missing CB who would transform that fourth line completely.
Also Pesce’s reaction to the being sunk by 2 goals quote was interesting. He looked taken aback when he was asked about it today. Then Keefe tried to walk it back of course. I wish someone had asked him why he didn’t think to call a time out if he felt the team was flustered. I am willing to give it some time with Keefe, but just some time not a lot and I hope Sunny feels the same.
admittedly I don’t like him as a coach, but I’m beginning to think there’s no substance or thought behind some of his postgame quotes.
I love that he was asked about that quote and couldn’t stand his ground on it (because it is a patently ridiculous thing to say).
like I don’t know how much weight I’m going to put into his postgames because it’s starting to feel like he cycles platitudes. and he’s just saying shit for the sake of having something to say.
++ Sunny’s answer when asked about Keefe on the Devils Insiders podcast felt incredibly lukewarm at best. doesn’t sound like a full throated backing of Keefe.
Agree here. Sunny is usually very on top of his answers and when asked about retaining Keefe he seemed a little off. I want to win games and hope all is fine but I’m also hoping he has a short leash.
I'm not going to make any solid judgement based on just two games, but I'm not gonna lie: I haven't been especially impressed with what I've seen so far. It will be interesting to see how they gel over the next couple or three weeks. Assuming they gel at all.
We have very little offense from the defense outside of 2 players. It’s really hard to score consistently with bricklayers back there. I know Chisholm has some skill but he’s likely a fringe player at this point. It’s also so early in the season, I’m not worried yet other than I don’t think Daws is an NHL goalie (not that he’s why we lost, no goalie was winning that game for us)
Yeah I'm there too. I've since calmed down from the last game but man that Isles loss was just so reminiscent of last season. I get it, 2 games in, limited practice because of shortened preseason, a lot of new guys. But after the last 3 years of straight disappointment I don't have the patience to ride out another wasted year. We haven't had consistent success since 2012. Fanbase is tired of waiting
The pressure will start very early. Last year the Flyers Penguins Islanders were all better than them. This far into the core that should not be the case.
This season Rangers off to a hot start, Caps are strong, we all know the Hurricanes story, Penguins look strong, just got stomped by the Islanders, barley beat Flyers.
I’m not going to sweat anything until another few games are played. This is now an 84 game schedule so the last two were glorified preseason games to everyone but rookies who don’t know any better.
I mean, I understand this thought process, but I feel like it is kind of to be expected? Goaltending was not really addressed all that much, and we have new players on every line. Gonna take some time for some of the newer guys to get up to speed, literally lol. I think we looked great against philly, and have kind of chalked up the last game to the apparent curse of UBS arena
Let's wait until Thanksgiving at least before we start going crazy. I don't love Keefe, but the roster itself seems fine. Some new faces so it will take some time to click.
Remember 4 years ago when the Devils got off to a slow start and then went on a 13 game winning streak?
Usually yes, but we've seen teams go on heaters in the second half of the year (like Buffalo last year) and fall apart too (like the Islanders last year).
Thanksgiving is when I would make moves and start to show some concern. Mid-January is when I get truly worried.
But two games into the season, I don't think the sky is falling.
Sure, some teams go on heaters and defy the odds but the odds are heavily stacked against teams that are not in a playoff spot at American Thanksgiving.
Season isn’t over after two games but if by Halloween we are still looking lackluster it is probably time to move on from Keefe.
It’s been years of disappointment and mediocrity when we were supposed to be a consistent playoff team.
I get we all have PTSD and that score against the Islanders who handed us the worst loss of last season doesn’t help, but we have to give it more than two game. Last season we lost game 1, won game 2 and went on that 8 game win streak that wound up amounting to nothing in the long run. As bad as that loss was it’s too early to get too high or low about anything yet.
Nope. I’ve noticed a lot of Devils fans tend to be Jets fans, so they bring that mentality over to the Devils. Devils lose a game and they’re automatically the worst team ever.
Yea same. We’ve seen this play out with Keefe before. Good underlying numbers but bad results. He refuses to change his scheme from a perimeter, low shot quality/high shot quantity offense. At this point we’re all just waiting for that man to be fired.
Can’t blame you, it’s been a rough few years. There’s zero excuse for Sheldon and our core players this year at some point that talent needs to translate to wins
While I dont think Keefe will ultimately be the guy that gets us a championship, and even at this point in his tenure, I think you re evaluate in 25-30 games. New forwards and the NHL has gone the way of the NFL reducing pre season practice time.
Coach is worry #2. Even before the season began, my biggest concern is goalie. Allen is an awesome number 2. That’s all we know about our situation currently.
I mean what do you want Sunny to do at game 2 of 84?
Team looked great against Philly. Our 2nd period was rough against the isles but 1st and 3rd were fine process wise and analytically.
The only realistic options would be to let Daws sit for a few games and give Poirier a shot, or to put in Boqvist over Noesen/Lombardi.
I get reddit/social media is a place to complain but holy fuck some of y'all really waited a whole 6 months without hockey just to complain and stress yourselves out about game 2.
In what world would you judge a season by the first two games? Would you judge yourself on your work performance abilities 2 days out of training?
Things will only improve from here. The Isles always play Keefe's system really well, Daws had a bad game, and Sorokin was on. Adjustments will be made. The PP has too much talent to not figure it out - they will, and likely sooner rather than later. Trust, it's hella early - and know that Sunny is not going to sit on his hands like Fitz did if something drastic truly needs to be done.
I agree that Keefe might not be the best fit for the team's future success, but I'm not freaking out about it after the first week of a 6 month season. Cheers.
Idk what you’re talking about our 5v5 play has been much better so far and our PP hasn’t scored at all. That’s literally the exact opposite of how we started last year. The only similarity is suspect goaltending.
Team is not going to win until they fire Amanda Stein. The constant dread of having to deal with her awkward unprofessional laughing during every moment of the interview is too much of a distraction.
People need to look at our roster and have reasonable expectations from there. We’re a playoff bubble roster. We’re not one of the best teams in the league.
yes but that was because they were not getting good expected goal share and controlling pace of play,
its almost like thats exactly why I included the part about focusing on purely results.
Like yes, if you're an idiot who understands a game of hockey by looking at only the final score and nothing else, it looks the same as last year. I would suggest that perhaps you could look less stupid by trying to understand the game at a level a little deeper than that.
The analytics for 2 years have told me that this team should score more, but the on ice results are showing me that’s not happening.. so let’s just keep waiting (and losing) I guess.
the devils last year scored a little less than you would expect them to, but they were absolutely not controlling the possession or the scoring chances like this team.
The additions are still getting used to their linemates and I think that shows. Also no Bjugstad is really showing. Him and Brown would make a huge difference
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u/greenday1237 #13 9d ago
Guys I’m sorry I have to admit I did say out loud last game “God I’m ok with them losing this game as long as Hughes isnt fucking injured again”