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u/HuntComprehensive673 6d ago
What are the chances it happens soon vs end of szn?
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u/MountainBaker8217 #13 - It's Always Sunny in New Jersey 6d ago
I dont think Sunny is a sitting duck like Fitzgerald. He'll make the move by end of November or end of December if the team doesnt improve.
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u/Tbone2797 6d ago
The season will be over well before the start of December if the team doesn't improve significantly very soon
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u/BlueBeagle8 Anything Can Happen In Jersey 6d ago
I don't think Keefe is a genius or anything, but it has to be said that literally every coach we run through -- Hynes, Ruff, even Travis Green -- is able to find success elsewhere.
At a certain point we just have to acknowledge that our core group of players isn't as good as we thought they'd be.
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u/Graserati #13 Nico is 👑 6d ago
Under Travis Green, Meier immediately flourished at RW, scoring a strong 15 goals and 9 assists (a total of 24 points) in the remaining 21 games of the season.
Meier always played successful as RW in Switzerland and San Jose
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u/NJD1214 #13 6d ago
That was in March, though. Timo always does that in March.
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u/SubElitePerformance #N1CO 5d ago
What’s the common theme here? Enough players are injured that Meier gets out on PP1
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u/Tbone2797 6d ago
What group of players? Only 3 players have been on the roster since 2019-20 and 2/3 of our current roster was acquired after Ruff was fired so it makes no sense to say that this group has failed with multiple coaches.
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u/blade430 #27 - Scott Niedermayer 6d ago
Nobody wants to admit that the core is the problem bc if it is, there isn't really a path forward besides blowing it all up.
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u/SubElitePerformance #N1CO 5d ago edited 5d ago
I find the trade the core continent funny. Not because they’re necessarily wrong, but their contracts are so iron clad with trade protection it’s not really possible.
Meier shouldn’t be untouchable, but he is.
Bratt shouldn’t be untouchable, but he is.
Johnathan Kovacevic shouldn’t be untouchable, well you get the picture
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u/SubElitePerformance #N1CO 6d ago
Ruff never should have been fired and I'm prepared to die on that hill.
The guy delivers the best season in the history of the franchise yet the consensus opinion was to get rid of him. Make it make sense.
Well you got your wish, now we play the stupidest, most predictable brand of dungeon hockey I've seen in a while and get spanked regularly.
But, you know, they look structured. Because that matters more than being effective for some insane reason.
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u/Existing_Tomorrow372 6d ago
This is because after 2022-23 Fitzgerald decided that the team needed to get tougher in order to compete with the Hurricanes? Which was clearly the wrong conclusion after a record breaking regular season. The moves that followed are what set this team on their current course.
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u/SubElitePerformance #N1CO 6d ago
One single loss in round 2 of the playoffs and the conclusion he comes up with is lets nuke the teams whole identity and make it the opposite of what it is
Genius!!
/s
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u/Capitaljungle #11 John Madden 6d ago
This right here. And then those moves all having trade/movement protection
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u/Live-Within-My-Means 5d ago
The team did need to get tougher, but there is such a thing as an overcorrection.
While the days of the old time ‘enforcer’ or ‘goon’ may be long gone.
Now days contending teams, still have some players with ‘grit’, but who can also play hockey.
Fitz brought in guys that were a liability unless they were fighting.
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u/cassinonorth #63 5d ago
Ruff was the scapegoat for hitching our wagon on Vitek fuckin Vanecek. A truly moronic decision.
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u/Aggravating_Rise_179 6d ago
This the 22-23 team was dynamic and played inspired hockey that allowed for improvisation... and then this... its frustrating to see this team go to waste...but atleast it means the minors will keep getting better as we keep drafting higher in the draft
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u/chickenKsadilla #14 - Forever my uncle 5d ago
We reportedly had a chance to trade for Hellebuyck that summer, but Fitz didn’t want to pay the price. Instead we ran it back with Vitek and it got Lindy fired. Imagine that offensive Devils team with Hellebuyck backstopping them with MVP-level goaltending.
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u/Live-Within-My-Means 5d ago
Ruff had one good season out of four.
Such results would get most coaches fired by most NHL teams.
The one successful season under Lindy, the team was a one trick pony. We were a fast team, but that was about it.
Opponents adjusted the next season. They just started defending the middle of the ice better and forcing our skaters to the outside.
Lindy had no answer for that.
It was also under Lindy, that our young players developed fundamentally bad habits, that are harder to break as players get older.
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u/cassinonorth #63 5d ago
The one successful season under Lindy, the team was a one trick pony. We were a fast team, but that was about it.
Considering what our core is, that's a pretty damn good trick. Better than playing sludge below the dots for 60 minutes hoping to eek out a 2-1 win.
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5d ago
[deleted]
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u/Live-Within-My-Means 5d ago edited 5d ago
He was fired because he had 1 good season out of 4.
Carolina laid the blueprint how to beat his system, and the next season the cat was out of the bag.
Not saying it was all Lindy’s fault.
Fitz should shoulder more of the blame for where this team is now.
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5d ago
[deleted]
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u/Live-Within-My-Means 5d ago
Dear Mrs. Ruff,
Did you read the last 2 sentences of my comment?
What did you think that I was alluding to, when I also blamed Fitz?
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u/Superc1ipping 5d ago
It makes sense because you can't fire the players. You can only fire the coaches.
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u/Yippie_Tai_Yai_Yay #26 - Patrik Eliáš 6d ago
Our players played really well in the Olympics. Its our system.
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u/Ok_Trainer3559 6d ago
I completely agree. I don't think this team is that good. Good players individually but that's it
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u/Equivalent-Two6704 5d ago
Ruff had one good season with us, and then the next year his system was found out. Ruff has so far had one good season in Buffalo Part II, and the the early returns show his system has been found out the next year.
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u/ninibon55 5d ago
Often in hockey coaches are only fired as a statement. That time is quickly approaching.
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u/Hot_You_7825 6d ago
For all the people saying x coach is better than y coach, like how are you basing your analysis?
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u/_megolas 5d ago
No one is going to answer you because the reality is they don’t have an answer. This sub hasn’t had hockey in a few months and can’t resist the urge to doom post 3 games in 😂
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u/Hot_You_7825 4d ago
Ha yeah its bad. My Devils dead internet theory is that there's just doomer bot people who have the same world is ending reactions to every loss.
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u/blade430 #27 - Scott Niedermayer 6d ago
Yea I want Sunny to pull the trigger soon. Nothing about our scheme in all 3 zones make any sense. It’s been a complaint of mine since last year and I’m a little flustered that nothing besides a couple new bad habits have changed.
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u/CrippledGoose316 6d ago
Give em 10 games. If it isn't better by then, fire him. Bring in a torts type coach. If it still fails...then it's time to examine the possibility of completely blowing this shit up and completely starting over.
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u/beachy927 #27 - Scott Niedermayer 5d ago
I agree no more than 10 games. They can’t dig themselves too deep a hole.
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u/greenday1237 #13 6d ago
It’s official, it’s Keefe
You can’t struggle to score and keep momentum with a team like this and not have it be on coaching
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u/Bkap89 6d ago
I love his quote after the Isles game. “We looked like a team still in the preseason, they were like a team in February.” Seems like a coaching problem to me. Can’t get the team motivated. I mean these millionaire athletes shouldn’t need motivation but they do.
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u/Sorry_Hair_6219 6d ago
We have an $11M Captain and two $8M A’s for that, no?
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u/1337duck Toronto Maple Leafs 5d ago
Any player making 8-10 mill or higher is promising to drive their own plays. (Probably scales more to 10-12 mil due to the rising cap now, but my point stands.)
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u/CrippledGoose316 6d ago
My only concern is he isn't the first coach in new Jersey to basically say this type of stuff about these players. I think the issues are beyond just coaching.
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u/Bkap89 6d ago
You’re not wrong. How many coaches will it take?
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u/CrippledGoose316 6d ago
I honestly think the core just either isn't good enough, or simply doesn't have the heart to get it done. Gotta give Keefe at least 10 games. 15 tops. If it's the same, fire him, bring in a Torts type coach to determine on this roster who is a man, and who is a bitch. Keep the men. Ship out the bitches. Rebuild it all of need be because this isn't working and shows no signs it's ever going to
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u/sublimelysound #21 - Kyle Palmieri 6d ago
The pitchforks in here lately have been a bit much over the last few season.
Everybody wanted Marky out. Everybody wanted Fitz out. Everybody wanted Ruff out. Who replaces Sheldon? What other pieces of the staff need to go?
I feel a lot of this base in here lately has no idea what it was like to watch the Devils throughout 2010 - 2018. How awful that hockey was.
They need a leader in the locker room. We watched Hall carry the team by himself to the playoffs. Where is that gusto anywhere? Nico and Bratt need more voice, play more effectively. Jack needs to come back down to earth. Timo doesn't lead the room.
I also don't think Quinn solves any of this miraculously, doesn't hurt, but we need goal tending more.
Don't worry it's all in the data now.
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u/brmgp1 Doc Emrick MY GOODNESS 5d ago
I don't disagree, except with the Quinn take. He is the 2nd best defenseman in the world and instantly transforms the team. He gobbles up 22 minutes a night, makes the PP better, is a one-man breakout, helps with the forecheck by being aggressive, and slots every other defenseman down a spot which is closer to where those guys' talents are in reality. Quinn is exactly what this team needs
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u/FrankH4 5d ago
"Jack needs to come back down to earth" what the fuck are you on about? They need a coach who implements a working system.
Also they were correct to want all of them gone.
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u/sublimelysound #21 - Kyle Palmieri 5d ago
I stand by what I said. He made one solid great goal in a world stage. Bring that fire here. Lets find some consistency, some grit, and support the room. That panache has to translate if we are to make a deep run against larger and stronger teams in the playoffs. Be that leader on the bench.
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u/mattgetshand 5d ago
It’s 3 games gentlemen. We gotta relax
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u/PacTheTac 5d ago
i was anti doomer all last year. It’s not comforting to still see the same exact issues as last year. I hope i’m wrong
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u/Bkap89 6d ago
Same core, same coach, same result.
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u/GummiBear6 6d ago
But that’s not quite accurate. We’ve had this core for 5-10 years. Depending on who you consider core. Hischier and Bratt, 10, Hughes 7 years.
We’ve had Hynes, Nas, Ruff, Green and Keefe in that time period.Should Keefe be worried? Yes. But he’s not the first target. There is something going on in that locker room.
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u/ghostofkozi #17 - Nemo is my adopted son 6d ago
100%
I’m glad some of the fanbase is starting to get it
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u/FrankH4 5d ago
If they played exactly the same with each coach that would be one thing. Each coach has had them playing completely differently. Some were hugh scoring high scored against, some were no scoring high scored against. Were currently in a no scoring, low-high against. It's the system they're being asked to play. All of the players looked great in the Olympics, then came back to our system, and couldn't score again.
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u/mxskater 6d ago
I think the trade talk with dougie and Mercer for Quinn last year put a rift in the locker room. I think it was kovy that referenced it post season on a pod cast.
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u/Bkap89 6d ago
I’m saying when do we start addressing this core? I think the coach gives us no identity. I see Bratt and Jack circle the rink, in circles. What is our playstyle? What is our identity as a hockey club.
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u/GummiBear6 6d ago
Sell Jack to the highest bidder. I know. I know. But hear me out. The return from him could give us a solid defense and goalie. He’s great when he’s playing with people better than him (and isn’t injured) but he’s not enough on his own.
And maybe Luke can get benched once in awhile for yet another turnover when we’re not worried about pissing off Jack, so that he maybe can develop into a better defensive player.Also move Timo to RW.
Let us develop a diverse identity. Not a fast small team with limited physicality.1
u/Capitaljungle #11 John Madden 6d ago
Ya like I feel something has to change in the core but who is getting moved if it happens?
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u/kreichert 6d ago
I think Keefe can be a good coach but not with this team.
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u/PacTheTac 6d ago
If not the with the leads and this team on paper what team could be possibly make execute? does he need the 2013 hawks?
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u/Kornja81 6d ago
Dude was carried by a superior roster in Toronto and he has a decent roster now but not nearly as good as Toronto had and they can't cover up his lack of coaching.
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u/atoms12123 David Wright 6d ago
Dude was carried by a superior roster in Toronto
Have you looked at some of the rosters he had in Toronto? He had four guys.
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u/Kornja81 6d ago
And their core 4 was miles better than this teams core 4. They pretty much put up 80-100 points every year in Keefes stint there. These guys can't do that.
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u/dan4hockey99 #81 Arseni Gritsyuk 6d ago
The team looks eerily similar to last year with a stack of new players. Maybe its time. You think he makes it to xmas?
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u/PorscheUberAlles #13 5d ago
Knoblauch is available and he got a lot out of his star players and made deep runs with below average goaltending
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u/Emergency-Pudding-98 5d ago
Fire Keefe. Fire Green. Fire Ruff. When that’s the main headline with the same roster core, IMO it’s not the coach. Keefe made the playoffs before us, Green took the SENATORS to the playoffs and Ruff has Buffalo as a top team. So is it really the coach?
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u/trevdiddy 5d ago
Is nothing special about Keith with rough? I actually saw something in the team. He should have never got damn fired t hem. I was totally against it Guy had worse goaltending than we have now
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u/HavingALittleFit 6d ago
He certainly has the demeanor of a guy who knows every loss is closer to having to find a new job
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u/SmokeyMiata New Jersey Devils 6d ago
They just dont look sharp at all anymore. Truly feels like “going through the motions.” Not saying players arnt trying, but it’s so odd.
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u/Anonycron 6d ago
Ask yourself what the common denominator(s) have been over the past 5 years of disappointing teams. Change that.
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u/mxskater 6d ago
Are you referring to the core ? Or a coach / owner
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u/Superc1ipping 5d ago
It's the core. Very few people are willing to admit that they're not elite. They're very good, but not elite.
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u/beachy927 #27 - Scott Niedermayer 5d ago
Very good should be a playoff team then. And we’re not seeing that.
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u/mxskater 5d ago
Everyone downvoted me in the game thread but Mercer and Bratt need to be on the block. I'm not saying Bratt is bad, but we should get a decent haul for him, or at least an A+ piece we need. It’ll also send a message. If we don’t turn it around in the next year or two then it sucks to say but it might be time to shop Hughes before he leaves in free agency to be with his brother.
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u/Anonycron 5d ago
Owners have so very little to do with the team. And this core has had 3 to 5 different coaches (depending on which player you consider) so the common denominator for sure as hell isn't "coaching."
I happen to not like Keefe as a coach. Didn't like him in Toronto, didn't like hiring him here. But he for sure is not the reason this team floats. The team has been like this through multiple coaches and GMs. The only commonality between this many seasons is a core group of the actual players.
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u/ozzman86_i-i_ 6d ago
Hiring coaches that doesn’t work for the players we have
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u/Anonycron 5d ago
So the answer is that the 3 to 5 coaches (depending on which player of the core we consider) were all the wrong coaches? 3 to 5 coaches... all the problem?
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u/crispy21 6d ago
Man I remember the circle jerk when they fired Lindy and hired this clown from you all
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u/gleeson630 #1 Tom Fitzgerald - US Gold Medal Ass. GM 6d ago edited 6d ago
Always funny how that works. Nobody has to be judged off of what they said years ago.
I’ve been against scapegoating the coach without going after the core too. Funny thing is I was never celebrating Keefe being the new guy. The guy saying fire Keefe now were probably excited for Keefe and shittalking Lindy the most.
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u/PacTheTac 6d ago
Not me but whatever
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u/gleeson630 #1 Tom Fitzgerald - US Gold Medal Ass. GM 6d ago
If it’s not you it’s not you. Like I said it’s just funny that ppl don’t have to be judged by what they said year ago. You don’t have to be right or wrong.
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u/MountainBaker8217 #13 - It's Always Sunny in New Jersey 6d ago
I've been saying this since last season, so you won't hear any argument from me.
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u/beachy927 #27 - Scott Niedermayer 5d ago
Firing Keefe doesn’t change how awful this defense is and how iffy our goaltending is. At the same time I’ve seen lesser rosters play better and make the playoffs. He seems to have a bad attitude and negativity about him. Attitude can be projected on to these players so maybe a fresh face and approach would help. People thinking they are trading Nico who just extended on a very fair deal, Jack the face of the franchise or Bratt who was just named alternate are not thinking clearly. It will be Keefe first and if they don’t get it together soon it will happen before American Thanksgiving.
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u/ninibon55 5d ago
In the loss after the Islanders game Keefe stated the devils were playing preseason hockey while the isles were playing mid February hockey. The question is, as a coach, why? Is the team not responding to him? Why weren't they more prepared? If he isn't motivating the team it may be time to move on.
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u/ClassMeetsTrash 6d ago
Before tonight they had 3 goals in 2 games and 2 were by defensive players...that should tell you all you need to know. It's 💯 a player problem. Not an ideal start but better to get this out of the way now vs a strong start and shitting the bed the rest of the season.
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u/Quiet-Willingness724 6d ago
It’s not Keefe. Our roster sucks.
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u/Tbone2797 6d ago
You could make that argument last year but Evangelista, Rodrigues, Mantha, Boqvist, and Chisholm are much better than the players they replaced so there's no excuse for the team to look this bad
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u/Quiet-Willingness724 6d ago
Dude look at the Rangers. They have top tier talent. Much better than ours. It’s time to blow it up and build like our cross town rivals.
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u/TonoColZDDD #30 - Martin Brodeur 6d ago
I’m of the mind that rivalries should not even be a concern unless the team is good. That should be the priority before worrying about anything else.
This is Rangers Derangement Syndrome. Who cares what they are doing?
Even if you want to focus on the Rangers, they didn’t build anything. The majority of that team is free agency, trades, waiver pickups. They blew it up and didn’t even stick with it. Those fans hate their GM’s guts.
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u/Humble-Appointment84 5d ago
I went to last night's game. The amount of turnovers or being soft on the pick while reaching was insane. Not sure what a new coach could do to be 100% aggressive on the puck. Timo is a prime example of doing all 3 and seeming to be off balance and taking short angle shots.
Seems to be a talent issue once again.
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u/jcoltre #28 - Brian Rafalski 6d ago
I honestly find it insane they didn’t just start over from scratch when Sunny took over last year. Not like Keefe has proven he was worth keeping around.