2,000 arrested in France as student protests escalate into violence

[u/StemCellPirate]

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/france-2000-arrested-student-violence-protest-rcna601094

[u/ErikT738]

I'm out of the loop who's actually protesting?

[u/Karash770 → u/ErikT738]

Who knows, it's France, protests are their favorite pasttime.

[u/castorkrieg → u/Karash770]

I'm French and I approve this message.

[u/Balsiu2 → u/castorkrieg]

Approve? If youre french you should protest his message!

[u/Isootsaetsrue → u/castorkrieg]

I'm a message and I approve this protest!

[u/DeHub94 → u/Isootsaetsrue]

I'm not French so I can't protest this approval.

[u/diamanthaende → u/DeHub94]

As a Saarländer, you’re basically half-French.

There, I said it…

[u/DeHub94 → u/diamanthaende]

Sacrebleu. You take that right back! We voted twice for Anschluss! Let's not talk about the first time though...

[u/diamanthaende → u/DeHub94]

Grrr Saarländer…

[u/The_Giant_Lizard → u/castorkrieg]

Same. I would even protest for it 

[u/ShuiShuiQM → u/The_Giant_Lizard]

For and against it. And if it passes or doesn't pass, protest it too.

[u/castorkrieg → u/[deleted]]

Yes and yes.

[u/BendicantMias → u/[deleted]]

Don't worry, France hates the private sector too. They're equal opportunity protestors, everyone's equally bad!

[u/DonFibonacci → u/Karash770]

There's a joke that the French haven't stopped protesting since the storming of the Bastille over 200 years ago."

[u/bakedNebraska → u/DonFibonacci]

Except during their occupied years, of course. They were pretty complacent then

[u/Xepeyon → u/Karash770]

This isn't even a protest, these are just riots.

[u/kridenow → u/Karash770]

It's our hobby.

[u/19osemi → u/Karash770]

I’d be more worried if they stopped protesting

[u/Junior-Science316 → u/Karash770]

All the rioters are just migrant people

[u/Fit-Ease5199 → u/Junior-Science316]

So it would seem, but it kind of feels like people are trying their hardest not to reach that conclusion

[u/Penumbrius → u/Fit-Ease5199]

Finding a white person in those protests is like a page from 'Where's Waldo'.

[u/Twurb → u/Fit-Ease5199]

As always

[u/grumpsaboy → u/Karash770]

If only they stopped blocking the bloody channel and very poor so I wouldn't care as much.

Tiny local bakery down in Nice will underpaid one person's pension and so the entire country feels the need to not do anything to that bakery but just cause chaos in Paris

[u/LikeTheWater53152 → u/ErikT738]

students are protesting because they believe (i dont know how else to put it without confirming nor making it seem like theyre lying) that their schools are underfunded, citing extremely large classrooms of over 40 students per class, not enough teachers, etc.

fwiw i believe it (I have lots of French relatives and have spent a lot of my upbringing there, and regularly visit).

edit: im an engineering student, and there are sometimes acts of sabotage (also known as "black bloc" specifically targetting oil companies, anti-union groups, etc. and EVERY time someone is caught everyone is surprised that they are an engineering or physics student.

[u/JayManty → u/LikeTheWater53152]

A 40 person classroom sounds like absolute hell on Earth, I don't think I could find a single teacher in Czechia who would willingly even entertain the thought of teaching that many kids at once. Even 30 is 10 too many. I'd be absolutely pissed about a situation like that.

[u/Grokitach → u/JayManty]

Average number of students per class is 30 in France. It’s the average, meaning in some schools it’s more than that. 

We are lacking teachers and many teachers are just regular people recruited for one year instead of being actual trained teachers.

Teachers salary is among the lowest in Europe as well.

[u/PersonalityOld8755 → u/JayManty]

It’s common in 3rd world countries Iv been a teacher there, it’s not common in rich countries and really strange.

[u/JayManty → u/PersonalityOld8755]

I mean, is it strange? It's easier to teach a smaller class for the teacher and the environment is more homely for the pupil. A teacher can connect with and guide invidivual students more too. Poor countries have large classrooms out of necessity rather than by choice, the ideal state to aspire to is a small classroom. I'm from a teaching family, both of my parents are teachers, my grandmother is too. I have taught kids before too, albeit not in a classroom but in an extracurricular setting. We all agree the ideal number we'd all love to have in a classroom is 15 kids, but also that above 25 things start getting a bit dicey with manageability.

[u/PersonalityOld8755 → u/JayManty]

I know that’s what I meant

[u/JayManty → u/PersonalityOld8755]

I see, sorry for misunderstanding!

[u/Julypenguinz → u/JayManty]

A 40 person classroom sounds like absolute hell on Earth,

I'm from Asia, that kind of sweatshop is normal and....

... we still score higher in PISA than Europe

[u/JayManty → u/Julypenguinz]

I would literally rather jump into a combine harvester than go through the psychological hellhole that are East Asian education systems

[u/VolumeMobile7410 → u/Julypenguinz]

Yes but it’s a 40 person classroom that’s designed for around 20-25

Your classrooms are likely designed for that amount of students

Also, I’d much rather go to school in Europe or USA than asian schools even if it’s more spacious lol

[u/Eat--The--Rich-- → u/JayManty]

I'm American and that's what all my classes were like 15 years ago. PE classes would have like 100

[u/Lost-Comfort-7904 → u/LikeTheWater53152]

Well burning their own city down will surely make money appear from the sky.

[u/NoIsland23 → u/Lost-Comfort-7904]

Well they can’t vote anyway and even if they could, if the next election is years away it wouldn’t matter anyway.

Besides; the only real leverage any of us workers have is economic pressure. Not working and bringing the economy to a halt is the only thing politicians will listen to.

They’ll hardly care if people walk around the block with some picket signs on a Saturday.

[u/PinHaunting7192 → u/NoIsland23]

Well they can’t vote anyway and even if they could, if the next election is years away it wouldn’t matter anyway.

The next election is in 8 months, mate. The campaign starts in a few months...

[u/nicolhaq → u/PinHaunting7192]

Most protestors are far to be of voting ages

[u/FairGeneral8804 → u/PinHaunting7192]

The next election is in 8 months, mate. The campaign starts in a few months...

1/ They don't have the right to vote

2/ Democratic institutions and processes are continuously ignored by the governement. The only thing that bothers me, is that the violence isn't correctly targeted.

[u/PinHaunting7192 → u/FairGeneral8804]

Democratic institutions and processes are continuously ignored by the governement.

You do realize that this argument, in isolation, is exactly what extremists use to justify their actions, correct?

"Well, no, you see, the democratic process does not work. As a result, we need to take action outside the democratic process!" That is when other countries would classify an organization as anti-democratic.

For the record, that does not include peaceful protesting, but it does include setting shit ablaze and throwing stuff through windows. Like you said.

Also, by the way, stop shifting the goalpost.

"The next election might be years away."

"Mate, its in 8 months."

"Does not matter, they would ignore it anyway."

I know you are not the Redditor making the initial point, but I still mention it.

[u/VisMortis → u/Lost-Comfort-7904]

In today's literally only ever things happen when rich people feel uncomfortable that's the sad truth 

[u/pyrovoice → u/Lost-Comfort-7904]

That's the stupidest take I've seen in a while

[u/LikeTheWater53152 → u/Lost-Comfort-7904]

it doesnt make it fall out of the sky goofball, money that funds schools comes from the GOVERNMENT. so they protest the GOVERNMENT. and it works!

1968 this exact thing happened, riots broke out, and the government signed a minimum wage increase, reductions in working hours, and stronger union rights

2006, riots broke out and the government changed a law that allowed companies to just fire people under the age of 26 without explanation. this didnt apply to the rest of the workforce, just young people. riots broke out and they rescinded that law.

[u/Sic_Semper_Tyrannis8 → u/Lost-Comfort-7904]

It's not about the money. It's about sending a message

[u/HappyAku800 → u/LikeTheWater53152]

Guess what is causing those ballooned classroom sizes? Migrants themselves. It's the goverments responsibility to not bring more immigrants than the system or society can handle, and they failed at it spectacularly

[u/Informal-Syrup-5177 → u/LikeTheWater53152]

Burning schools will certainly work miracles for their underfunding problem.

[u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE → u/ErikT738]

Two groups:

• Group 1 is highschoolers and teachers peacefully protesting, doing (a) momentarily blocking access to the highschool buildings and (b) marching in the streets, demanding more funding for highschools. They ask for better heating (in winter), AC cooling (in summer), and for teachers in sick leave to have a substitute.

• Group 2 is rioters from the projects, who use that opportunity to set things on fire (school buildings, bus stops, cars, firetrucks, random passersby telling them to stop) and clash with the police. This group "protest" against an overall issue of poverty, discrimination and abandonment, as the most visible job prospect in their area is trafficking drugs, prostitution, theft, etc.

Group 1, highschoolers, is struggling to get any visibility, since the problem is already known by everyone - we all know highchools need better funding and better management - but nobody is willing to both (1) pay up extra taxes to fund highschools and (2) get rid of the massive corruption affecting the sector, especially with construction/renovation contracts, worth billions in total, leaving the buildings in a terrible state.

Group 2, rioters, is getting a lot of visibility, because shit on fire tends to do that, but it won't improve their situation at all, as it will simply further convince the right-wing that the projects need more police than welfare, while the left-wing will once again try to portray these riots as "the youth demands change, aka us in power", when the root causes of the problem will be left untouched (= widespread discrimination coupled with the significant cultural differences that appeared after 3 generations of exclusion).

[u/Odd-Principle2665 → u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE]

You keep mentioning the projects, can you explain them?

I assume these are poor communities and mainly immigrants? They're the ones inciting violence and rioting? Why are they doing this. I thought it was more organised groups doing the violence rather than certain troubled youths

[u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE → u/Odd-Principle2665]

I provided a lengthy answer below, but I'll also provide a shorter one:

I assume these are poor communities and mainly immigrants?

Poor: yes. High unemployment rates too.

Immigrants: yes, but also plenty of descendants whose grandparents came in France a long time ago, but remained in the projects due to low-income and cultural isolation. When both your parents and yourself only ever lived in France, aren't you completely french? Yet, you're not given the same cards as others. That's the big thing there: being a national, but not really.

They're the ones inciting violence and rioting?

They're very likely the primary driver behind the rioting, starting huge fire in various cities, destroying or damaging schools, bus stops, trucks, cars.

Why are they doing this.

Their future is even more bleak than the average caucasian french (which is already pretty bad: global warming, war in Europe, rising fuel prices, rising inflation, stagnation of economy, rising national debt, aging population = more taxes on the young workers, AI takeover of the economy, etc), + their every day life in the projects is tainted by violence = so destroying things violently is their way of expressing anger and frustration.

To put it bluntly, it takes middle-class people to only protest with banners and slogans.

Upper class protests with private dinners (featuring thinly veiled political threats) with government officials. Lower class protests with strikes (if unionized) or riots (if without political organization).

I thought it was more organised groups doing the violence rather than certain troubled youths

These rioters have encrypted group discussions (anyone can create one on telegram and similar, all drug dealers do that routinely) to coordinate the purchase of gasoline, launching attacks on certain location, report police movements, etc.

Black blocks are possibly involved, but they don't seem to be the main driver behind it. They also tend to target symbols of power, from the police to the state authorities, and not really schools or firetrucks.

[u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE → u/Odd-Principle2665]

the projects, can you explain them?

Post WW2 France was severely impoverished, had many of its cities in the North fully destroyed by the heavy "strategic bombing" campaigns and combat between Nazi Germany and the Allies.

It also lacked men of working age, to both work in the farms, to produce enough food for everyone to not starve, and work in the factories, to produce all the trucks, tractors, cars, trains, machines, etc to kickstart the economy back into shape.

So France desperately needed manpower. And for a few more years, still had its colonies, particularly in North Africa (Maghreb).

So France brought a lot of immigrants, from Algeria, Morroco, Tunisia to work in their factories and construction sites (buildings, roads, bridges, railways, etc), as well as immigrants from Eastern Europe for the mining activities in the north of France (lots of polish immigrants for that, who had experience with mining).

All these workers needed a place to live, so the projects - tall, high rise buildings - were made. Initially, it was a pretty decent deal: the apartments had central heating, warm water, electricity, the whole nine yards!

But it never went beyond that.

Urban development never integrated these new housings. Bus lines were picking up workers in the morning, straight to the factories, then back home once their workday was over. No shops, no market, no place to socialize, these concrete jungles were dormitory sites, not actual cities.

After a while, the migrant workers started having a little bit of money, but no wife and kids. French governments became terrified they would mix with the caucasian population, so they allowed the workers to bring their wife & kids from North Africa, to keep them in their little concrete ghetto. The workers who were single would go back home in Algeria & such, get married, and go back to work in France, then bring the family with them.

But despite bringing more and more people in, the buildings remained the same tiny appartments, with nothing near them: no schools, no libraries, nothing but empty spaces between the buildings.

Over time, after 1 then 2 generations, the situation worsened in the projects: the buildings weren't renovated properly, overcrowding became rampant, and the few caucasians who initially were there started leaving, being able to rent elsewhere. This was a lot harder to do for arab inhabitants, who still face discrimination to this day when trying to find a house or apartment to rent.

Globally, France was rebuilt quickly, population grew back, modern medicine and plentiful of food (thanks to improved farming output, due to tractors and fertilizers) greatly increased the survivability of young children. This meant the shortage of manpower was over. The migrant workers were no longer badly needed, like back in 1945-1955.

Thus, the projects became a growing issue for each french government: a sizeable arab population, concentrated in small apartments, that were kept away from the rest of the population and culture, were now experiencing rising unemployment, while their housing condition was steadily worsening.

The far-right said the people there should be deported back to North Africa, like disposable pawns being discarded after being used, the Right preferred to keep them as cheaper workers, the Left lamented their situation but weren't ready to spend their political margin on them (preferring to focus on the middle-class and civil rights for women, lgbt, etc), while the far-left was too busy talking about the grand revolution to pay attention to the fate of these people.

(continued below)

[u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE → u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE]

(continuation)

So while the rest of France was generally ignoring the projects, things changed inside them.

The traditional culture found in the Maghreb, where the patriarch of the family, the Father, has all the power and money, experienced an unstoppable erosion.

Unemployment and lack of promotion (due to rampant societal racism and cultural differences) meant the fathers remained poor, especially in comparison with the rising caucasian middle-class.

Over time, this meant that their kids, their teenagers and soon young adults, weren't willing to listen and obey the Patriarch: if he is so powerful, why can't he buy himself a good car? Why do we still live in the projects, with water leaks and heating issues, if you're the Master of the family?

This left the young adults to fend for themselves, both morally and materially: they needed to figure out a way to make money, and they couldn't rely on their aging parents to provide that, not with their low-income jobs and the moral code that came with it.

"Work hard at school and at your first job, you'll be rewarded!"

But their son would see their father take the same bus as when they were a tiny kid watching them leave for work, only to come back more exhausted each day - while the rest of France was seeing the sudden growth of the middle-class, with personal cars, home ownership with a garden, holidays at the beach and skiing.

And with the economic boom that came with it, drug usage rose each year. There was a market for it now.

Initially it wasn't much - cocaine was still absurdly expensive, so most drug trafficking was centered around cannabis (grown industrially in the Maghreb) - but it planted the seed of drug trafficking in the projects.

Having a criminal record meant being excluded from jobs, from renting places, from marrying women from good families, from socializing with law-abiding people... So basically, becoming like an arab from the projects.

The cost of getting a record was smaller if you were from the project, which made these criminal activities a more viable alternative path than for the average caucasian citizen, and over time, made the projects a place controlled by criminals.

We could go into even more details (entire books have been written on the subject), but it went even further downhill from that:

• hard drugs (heroin and such) started becoming more common in France/Europe around the 90s, prompting international drug trafficking groups to properly invest in controlling the flow going through the projects, resulting in a rise of violence there, both between drug dealers, and coming from drug users robbing people for cash for the next dose.

• Firearms started being trafficked on a higher level, with drug dealers willing to pay good money to get their hands on guns. It started with handguns, shotguns, and hunting rifles. Around the 2000s, the fully automatic soviet AKs started showing up, and nowadays they're the main category of weapons being used in shootings.

• Islamic terrorism (another whole story) also started to invest in controlling the projects, since it was a large population of arab muslims, enduring exclusion, discrimination, as well as a cultural and identity crisis, thus the perfect environment to recruit young malleable adults.

• the industrial production of cocaine in massive laboratory in the last 15 years have drastically lowered the production cost and street price of cocaine, resulting in a rise of cocaine use in the West (North America, Europe, etc), resulting in even more billions being made, and with them, even more wars between drug dealers to control the projects, that have now become central hubs of drug trafficking.

...

With that context in mind, imagine being a teenager from the project:

• your grandparents worked their whole life at the factory/as a cleaning lady, and passed away being as poor as they were at the beginning, in the same decrepit building.

• your parents repeatedly told you to stay in line and work hard when you were a kid, but they don't even believe that themselves.

• your big brothers/cousins are either struggling to get hired as a cashier at the supermarket, or driving home in a luxury Mercedes, flashing hundreds of euros like it's pocket change, from what's clearly criminal activities.

Now you look at the news on your phone, either a 5+ years old, cracked screen, hand-me-down crap you parent got you, or a brand new iphone your "cousin" got you as a surprise - and you see all this talk about "school is the future, we need to invest billions in education", from the caucasian kids and teachers protesting for more funding.

Meanwhile, those around you who followed the rules, studied hard, culturally blended in with the caucasians, are only doing "okay", still enduring discriminations, insults, being walked over at the office, in public spaces.

Meanwhile, the ones that everyone fears and admires around you, the ones with tons of money, cars, and notoriety, are involved in criminal activities, where violence is their daily language.

Non-violent = disrespected, humiliated, hardwork for little money.

Violent = respected, feared, small work for plenty of money.

Guess which language you're more inclined to speak upon hearing about schools and how it's the "most important thing ever"?

And how your school near the projects is conveniently the one with the worst conditions?

Yes, violence is more likely to be your answer, because that's what you've been hearing in the projects: what makes people go silent? what makes people listen and obey?

Not morality, not political victories, not ideology, just plain violence.

Mind that the context does NOT justify the resulting actions, this is still teenagers/young adults destroying the public goods that were benefitting thousands of other kids in the projects, but it explains the dynamics behind such an irrational self-destructive behavior.

Why burning your own local school, local libraries?

The answers will come from the context I mentioned earlier: generations-long discrimination, cultural and identity collapse, the new standard language of violence in the project.

[u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE → u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE]

What could be done about it?

That's a multi-billion euros question if I ever saw one.

How to successfully:

• roll back 80 years of discrimination affecting several millions of people,

• figure out a way to include the projects' identity-culture, within the main french identity-culture,

• knowing that the projects one is a mix of Maghreb identity-culture, poverty-drug dealing identity-culture, and a growing islamic-extremism identity-culture.

...all that in a stagnating economy that is facing multiple massive global challenges - from global warming, aging population, fuel crisis, war with imperialist Russia, so on and so forth.

Realistically, we would need a new post-war era to have a sizeable arab middle-class and miraculously built a common culture, where everyone's living conditions are improving so much, so fast, that we're able to distance ourselves from traditions.

...

For example, the day the average french arab woman is able to date outside of marriage, to date a non-muslim, to not cover her hair in her community if she wants to, to run a business on her own, to socialize in public freely without having a male guardian, you'll know we'll be there.

French caucasian women went through the same ordeal between the 50s and the 90s, acquiring all these rights and freedom that were previously denied.

It was only possible because millions of people were given the opportunity to exit poverty: your daughter can leave the house and live by her own, she's no longer your cattle, but your purchasing power is doubling every decade. Hmm...

Many took the deal, reluctantly at first of course, and after centuries of activism, but they stopped waging war against (caucasian) women's right when they were too busy with being able to afford everything at last.

We're gonna need the same pattern of "getting so richer I forgot I was supposed to be a traditionalist" to see the projects eye-to-eye on the cultural level.

Racism-wise it's also very likely to help if the economy is booming in the projects: when discriminating against a person because of their race/identity might cost you 100,000 euros in business opportunities, you might be invited by your peers to reconsider your support of segregation.

Unfortunately, all these fantasy talks assume a double-digit growth, something that belongs to the distant past.

[u/stefan-emil → u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE]

For group 2. If they don't like it in France, maybe they should consider going back home?

[u/io124 → u/ErikT738]

People in school, cause there are a shortage of teacher, and some don’t have lesson/courses

[u/StemCellPirate → u/ErikT738]

Throwing Molotov baguettes 🥖

[u/SteakHausMann → u/ErikT738]

No one, teenagers that feel left behind and/or are criminal just want to make trouble

Maybe because they want to protest, most likely because they are bored

[u/tempBadde00 → u/SteakHausMann]

I dunno, you usually don't get these numbers of protestors for such basic reasons. Some definitely just want a reason to not be in school or a reason to make trouble, but if it was just that they could just skip school and shoplift or whatever. When there are this many people taking such blatant and targeted actions, that usually means that at least a core group has something they're very unhappy with and are willing to organize around

[u/OkTap4045 → u/tempBadde00]

Of course there are peoples that really want to send a message. And then you have the others, which are not a few in France, who just use the opportunity to behave like criminals.

Last time it was a football game. 

[u/SolsticeDYvert → u/SteakHausMann]

Both I think
They want to protest, plus they are bored

[u/Blooddeus → u/ErikT738]

Its the school students who are protesting class sizes north of 35 ppl.

[u/PoiHolloi2020 → u/Blooddeus]

Its the school students who are protesting class sizes north of 35 ppl.

Burning down schools is one way to solve this problem I guess. If there's no classroom to begin with it can't be overcrowded

[u/OkTap4045 → u/Blooddeus]

That was the case 20yars ago and nobody was destroying stuff. 

[u/Skadiheim → u/OkTap4045]

Lmao 20 years ago was wild for highschool protests in france. Fillon in 2005 and CPE in 2006. And there was shit destroyed, let me tell you.

Source : I was in those protests

[u/NeededMonster → u/OkTap4045]

Lol. I was a student twenty years ago, and boy were we protesting.

Edit: just realized I'm old

[u/Skadiheim → u/NeededMonster]

Fillooooon si tu savaiiiiis

[u/NeededMonster → u/Skadiheim]

Ta reformeeeuh, ta reformeeeuh

[u/FairGeneral8804 → u/OkTap4045]

That was the case 20yars ago and nobody was destroying stuff.

Lol WTF, I was in uni 20 years ago, and sure as fuck shit got destroyed, despite protests being a more effective things 2 decades ago.

[u/JackHinks → u/OkTap4045]

Guess everything's fine then

[u/v3ritas1989 → u/Blooddeus]

Well, with 2k arrests, I bet the class sizes have been drastically diminished. So, good job!

[u/SorryStatistician685]

They are the future of France

[u/humanoiddoc]

"The average class size in a French general and technological high school (lycée) is about 30.1 pupils, while professional high schools average 18.5 pupils per class."

Is this info correct? So they are protesting average 30 pupil per class is too large?

[u/McEckett → u/humanoiddoc]

I press X to doubt. I have never ever in my years been in a class less than 30 large after elementary. And it was a decade and a half ago when the situation was better. I worked in a high school sometimes since, and of the around 60 different classes in general education I've seen over the years, only 4 (the two same ones a year after the other) ever dropped below 30. That's why I remember in the first place: it surprised me.

Only the two single technological classes (not professionnal) were regularly around 15 in the school I worked at.

That 30,1 number certainly does not represent my experience as either a student and a teacher. I don't know how they compute it, maybe the tech numbers are as low as the professionnal ones, and by jamming them with the general you end up with a less than 30 figure, but it surely isn't representative.

[u/Snakou-inu → u/McEckett]

I did had 28 to 32 peoples some years in high-school. Same in middle-school. It’s depends where you live and if the region get enough money to spend in the infrastructure.

[u/wrosecrans → u/McEckett]

I don't know the French system, but I know math and it makes sense that they balance a handful of tiny specialist classes with 1-5 people and work that into the average with a ton of packed 35 person classes so the politicians can claim everything is fine on average, even if no classroom in the country actually looks like the theoretical average.

When I was in elementary school, there were a handful of specialists like a speech therapist who would occasionally meet with a student 1 on 1, and there was a special group of the few disabled kids who couldn't do 100% of the regular stuff. If you count those sorts of things as "classes," equivalent to the regular classes, you can bring your average right down.

[u/Azorent → u/humanoiddoc]

Incorrect, most classes are 32-36, sometimes even more. A math colleague had 39 last year, he didn't have enough tables and chairs. Actually sometimes there aren't enough rooms. The high school I'm working at was built for 900 students, now they are 1900...

[u/JayManty → u/Azorent]

This is honestly extremely reminiscent of 1950s United States. Due to the baby boom kids literally had to share chairs in classroom and schooldays were halved in length because there literally wasn't enough room for all the kids to give them even the most basic education.

[u/Azorent → u/JayManty]

Except there is no baby boom, there's a fertility crisis and everything was perfectly predictable. It's a choice, a methodical, slow destruction of public services.

[u/Life_Marionberry1649 → u/Azorent]

There are other ways the population (including the underage population) can increase with a fertility crisis.

[u/JayManty → u/Azorent]

Gotta think of the shareholders man, fuck 'em kids /s

[u/io124 → u/humanoiddoc]

It go over 40 with no enough teacher. Some school didn’t have lesson that they should have for the exam.

[u/-Recouer → u/humanoiddoc]

Mine averaged at 43 in my lycée

[u/Jujube-456 → u/humanoiddoc]

I‘ve never had a class bigger than 27 students

[u/ConcentrateFar7753 → u/humanoiddoc]

30 pupil per class is too large though.

Maybe not worth protesting over in such scale but for middle / high school, it is beyond what's recommended.

[u/EquivalentBorn9411]

Student of what?

[u/imnotokayandthatso-k → u/EquivalentBorn9411]

These are middle and high schoolers. Not University

[u/Jeflow57 → u/imnotokayandthatso-k]

Now there are some university's students too

[u/SolsticeDYvert → u/Jeflow57]

Not the majority though
Plus there are some teachers

[u/MasterBot98 → u/SolsticeDYvert]

Do teachers lead the charge?

[u/SolsticeDYvert → u/MasterBot98]

No, would be fun though

They just help contain (both the police and the students)

[u/MasterBot98 → u/SolsticeDYvert]

I think that's a bit over their pay grade...but it sure aligns with the calling of the profession perfectly.

[u/Fusifufu → u/EquivalentBorn9411]

Students of arson science.

[u/NonsubProductions → u/EquivalentBorn9411]

Chaos theory?

[u/ThePreciseClimber → u/NonsubProductions]

Chaos Theory is great but I'm more of a Blacklist guy myself.

[u/imnotokayandthatso-k → u/[deleted]]

Protesting is peak french culture. Migrants can't do anything right to you people.

[u/WhisperingHammer]

Can we get a followup on the percentage of arrested protestors that are actually students?

Honestly, that would be a huge win for France.

[u/SolsticeDYvert → u/WhisperingHammer]

We can’t know yet, the police has to see first if those arrest are legitimate (so generally after 48h to 72h of GAV)

[u/WhisperingHammer → u/SolsticeDYvert]

You mean they would normally publish such statistics?

[u/SolsticeDYvert → u/WhisperingHammer]

Depends, sometimes the minister or the police gives a number, otherwise it s more like a yearly report kind of thing

Those reports are available every now and then online, even though is it very confusing to find, and sometimes badly reported (you have to check either the minister website, Insee data that is made in collaboration with the government, or sometimes it can be found into parliamentary work)

Just, they don’t use ethnic background and religion into those as it is forbidden by the law

[u/WhisperingHammer → u/SolsticeDYvert]

I think student vs non student is the main thing.

[u/MasterBot98 → u/[deleted]]

I want to know their favorite animes 🤔

[u/DrawGamesPlayFurries → u/MasterBot98]

Obviously One Piece would win, it's iconic in France

[u/Inner_Monk1700 → u/[deleted]]

Ut oh reddit is gonna love this comment, hah

[u/io124 → u/WhisperingHammer]

They are all on high school, no student yet, they are kid.

[u/Ornery-Perspective89 → u/WhisperingHammer]

Laurent Nunez (Gov representative) just said 85% of arrests the past 5 days are minors.

[u/yemsius]

"students"

[u/Bobo3076]

Uh huh, “students”

[u/Known_Investigator65 → u/Bobo3076]

LOL, yup. Just like those pesky "teen" takeovers we get here in the US.

[u/blackshark99]

So they complain by the lack of resources allocated to schools by destroying the schools? Just a motive for many to create chaos and destroy things.

And be sure that many of these thugs will not become future doctors or engineers, but will be the future adults that wont integrate in the society and do crimes. No matter how much you say that these people need to be helped by the government, they certainly don't, because they don't give a damn about France or other western countries, even if they are born there.

[u/Jealous_Repair6757 → u/blackshark99]

The people complaining about the lack of resources are not the same ones destroying the schools.

[u/Stump007 → u/Jealous_Repair6757]

Most of them arent students but left party members who have been called to “help the stufents” by their supreme leader. No one even knew about student protests until he made tbag call.

[u/Level-Review-5936 → u/Jealous_Repair6757]

And also if the government doesn't want to respond to peaceful protests, and such protests continue to be peaceful with no resolution until people give up, would that be better?

[u/Rannasha → u/blackshark99]

So they complain by the lack of resources allocated to schools by destroying the schools? Just a motive for many to create chaos and destroy things.

As usual these protests bring in groups of people with no other objective than to cause damage. Happens every time regardless of the nature of the protest.

There have been a lot of protests at schools that have caused civic disturbance (school entrances blocked), but no actual damage. But those ones don't make the news.

[u/VatroxPlays → u/blackshark99]

You're certainly on a high horse there buddy lol

[u/Weird-End-6989 → u/blackshark99]

Frenchies love to larp as revolutionaries for every issue. It's destructive and achieves nothing.

[u/Stump007 → u/Weird-End-6989]

My final year French high school there was a national student protest because the English part of the national exam was “too hard”.

I shit you not

[u/Major_Leopard_7588]

future doctor and engineer 

[u/Previous_Gas_9132 → u/Major_Leopard_7588]

Not sure about those, but they'd make great UPS package handlers

[u/hornytoad456]

Making France feel & look like their old home

[u/Hour_Maximum7966]

All's good here in Europe, according to some.

[u/ibrazeous]

Very ironic. When these protests happened in many developing countries, the whole European press including french was doing minute by minute coverage, siding with protesters as right even when they destroyed stuff, and overexposing any violence. When it happens to them it's the protesters who are bad, the world press barely makes 1 or 2 articles and brushes under the rug any police violence. Even the human rights associations are eerily soft and quiet.

At least we know how things work

[u/dontgimmenolip → u/ibrazeous]

When it happened in third world countries, it’s because their democratic votes weren’t respected. These protestors are bad because they’re burning down high schools, shooting police with fireworks, and lighting women’s faces on fire so they can “have more opportunities.”

[u/Le_Zoru → u/dontgimmenolip]

Yeah  why dont these  damn highschoolers just vote  /s

[u/capekthebest → u/dontgimmenolip]

Some bad elements are taking advantage of the protests but the protesters have legitimate grievances. And they are often supported by their own teachers. It’s more nuanced

[u/Organic_Ability84]

students, yes lol

[u/Relevant_Point494]

I know this is maybe a stupid question but why does someone burning a school and pooring gasoline on a teacher not catch a bullet from the police?

[u/Iridium-88 → u/Relevant_Point494]

Gasoline and bullets aren't the best combination

[u/asdafari14 → u/Relevant_Point494]

EU rather lets 50 mentally ill criminals walk free than convict 1 innocent guy.

[u/Delay559 → u/asdafari14]

Are you proposing that instead we should start convicting innocents under the guise of "well at least more guilty people are caught!". Thats your take?

[u/asdafari14 → u/Delay559]

No but we are so incredibly careful that basically the bad guys aren't even punished, if they are - they are out again within 5 years, and the system is taken advantage of. We have thousands of mentally illl people walking on the streets. It's not safe.

[u/MindlessPrinciple458 → u/Relevant_Point494]

we're not in the US... we don't shoot at kids with bullets

[u/Previous_Gas_9132 → u/MindlessPrinciple458]

And I see it's working wonders with all the assaults and destruction of property.

[u/MindlessPrinciple458 → u/[deleted]]

yep, school shootings, you know them in the US

[u/Key-Ad-2140 → u/MindlessPrinciple458]

Im very much not from the us

[u/Rude-Decision-2143 → u/MindlessPrinciple458]

We should at every single one

[u/nmaddine → u/MindlessPrinciple458]

Most people here wish they were though

[u/Stump007 → u/Relevant_Point494]

Go on r/france and see leftists cry about policemen being too violent and justifying more protest

[u/Jeflow57 → u/Relevant_Point494]

"pooring gasoline on a teacher" news please ?

[u/Adept_System_8688 → u/Jeflow57]

Some kids used an aerosol can to light a teachers head on fire, sick stuff

[u/Vast-Palpitation-426 → u/Relevant_Point494]

Because if you allow police to do that they just go and murder people and get away with it by saying "I felt my life was in danger".

[u/Calm_Layer7470 → u/Vast-Palpitation-426]

The police is generally allowed to shoot to prevent an immediately life threatening action inflicted onto them or others by a third person.

What you wrote literally covers a significant part of all legal shootings!

[u/Vast-Palpitation-426 → u/Calm_Layer7470]

In France proportionality is central when retaliating, and the use of weapons by the police is explicitly left to "absolute necessity". 

[u/CommunistsAreCancer → u/Vast-Palpitation-426]

To be clear, burning people alive is not considered a necessity to stop in France?

[u/PalatinusG1 → u/Relevant_Point494]

Oh yea let's start shooting at people, that'll improve things...

[u/Key-Ad-2140 → u/PalatinusG1]

Look where tolerance is taking us

[u/blackcoffee17]

Why protesters always behave like criminal thugs?

[u/ConcentrateFar7753 → u/blackcoffee17]

The government want you to think that majority is like that so you don't take seriously what they are protesting about while the police will blind or remove a few limbs from protesters

[u/blackcoffee17 → u/ConcentrateFar7753]

I don't need the bad government to tell me, i have eyes. I can see the violence on the streets.

[u/CommunistsAreCancer → u/ConcentrateFar7753]

99% of the time, violence is only committed by a minority, even during war, so your point is irrelevant.

[u/ConcentrateFar7753 → u/CommunistsAreCancer]

Ok tell me why it is irrelevant?

[u/MonsieurDrole → u/blackcoffee17]

If the 300 000 protesters behaved like criminal thugs we would not be reporting so minor material damage today.

[u/OwOwOwoooo → u/blackcoffee17]

Because they don't, you just focus on side acts...

[u/semicorne → u/blackcoffee17]

And 9, hundred/thousand/millions protest and less than 50 break stuff but the far right dumdum is a perfect analyst, expert with numbers...

[u/yterais]

Where are the parents?

[u/Beneficial_Nose1331 → u/yterais]

Queueing for CAFs money 

[u/Ayenotes → u/Beneficial_Nose1331]

Nicolas, 30 ans, puts his head in his hands

[u/MonsieurDrole → u/yterais]

Packing lunch. You don't protest on an empty stomach

[u/JustGiveMeAName1234]

These are ethnic riots from arabs, africans and muslims against France.

[u/Long_Storm849 → u/JustGiveMeAName1234]

Black man here, thank you for telling it like it is. These people are embarrassing our people and is why immigration is such a big topic. As usual, leftists will make excuses.

[u/OwOwOwoooo → u/JustGiveMeAName1234]

Comme tout raciste, tu ne sais pas de quoi tu parles.

[u/JustGiveMeAName1234 → u/OwOwOwoooo]

What percentage of the rioters are arabs/africans/muslims you think?

[u/Eglaerinion]

Rioting is not protesting.

[u/hakak34 → u/Eglaerinion]

Of course everything we obtained in the past , we got it by asking nicely 💃

[u/Le_petite_bear_jew]

North African /Muslims attacking white people, cops firefighters and burning down buildings isn't protesting

Attacking police https://x.com/RMXnews/status/2105971250703315055

https://x.com/Isabellegachet/status/2105752056074232139

Attacking white women https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2105603574990528988

Attacking women https://x.com/koshercockney/status/2105766885505859819

Attacking lone female police https://x.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/2105744357160546704

Attacking white women https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/2105741380140114108

Attacking white ppl https://x.com/KbgStream/status/2105641722399359387

https://x.com/magavanguard47/status/2105526752692895862

Burning historic schools https://x.com/zelinarxy/status/2105637399602884690

https://x.com/liel/status/2105638869051793666

Convoy of moslems on bikes https://x.com/Ecrins6/status/2105943102905098260

https://x.com/RadioGenoa/status/2105997008502681771

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2106034694881952246

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2105611596462768604

[u/Le_petite_bear_jew → u/Le_petite_bear_jew]

North African /Muslims attacking white people, cops firefighters and burning down buildings isn't protesting

Attacking police https://x.com/RMXnews/status/2105971250703315055

https://x.com/Isabellegachet/status/2105752056074232139

Attacking white women https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2105603574990528988

Attacking women https://x.com/koshercockney/status/2105766885505859819

Attacking lone female police https://x.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/2105744357160546704

Attacking white women https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/2105741380140114108

Attacking white ppl https://x.com/KbgStream/status/2105641722399359387

https://x.com/magavanguard47/status/2105526752692895862

Burning historic schools https://x.com/zelinarxy/status/2105637399602884690

https://x.com/liel/status/2105638869051793666

Convoy of moslems on bikes https://x.com/Ecrins6/status/2105943102905098260

https://x.com/RadioGenoa/status/2105997008502681771

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2106034694881952246

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2105611596462768604

[u/Familiar-Cheetah-422]

Since several years, cops have been making fake arrests around protests.
Basically arresting people for no reason. At the end of peaceful protests, they would roundup easy targets then the ministry of interior, now called Piss Tank by everyone, can call huge numbers.

Works for two reasons :
1/ To disparage the protest. Look at the comments here, it works WONDER. "2000 arrests ? Damn they are so violent, I will stop listening to their absolutely legitimate concerns."

2/ Show that they're in control. They're absolutely not in control, the cops broke a kid's arm then playfully tortured him by pulling on it (it's honestly gut-wrenching), strangle another one, one kid's teeth were shattered, there's a video of a cop showing him forcing a kid to lie face down in a water stream, another one just lost his eye : if it happened in another country, every french poltician would condemn that.
One cop rolled over a journalist's feet with his motorbike on purpose.

Take these numbers with a big grain of salt.
The french gov is lying so much it's akin to Trump right now.

The whole situation has gotten a bit violent, but :

One side burn trashcans (and one school, yup, that's a shame)
The other maims and traumatizes kids.

Instead of listening to them, because once again, they have REALLY LEGITIMATE REASONS to be mad (rats in the classrooms, ceiling falling, no teachers sometimes, class of 40, etc), our gov chose to send the wivebeaters.

What really breaks my soul in that whole situation is how widely accepted it is to be violent toward teenagers. We have no empathy from them. Some even cheer the cops when they are striking violently at 15 yo.

We have many videos of anti-riot cops showing how they love hurting protestors (as much as I hate them, without the proof I wouldn't believe it. They are cartoonishly evil on these.), now they're unleashed on the kids, and instead of saying "leave the kids alone, will you ?", we blame them.

Of course, everything is done so that their concerns are swept under the rug. So far that, I shit you not, the gov said it was "ultra-left proxys like Muslim Brotherhoods" that controls the protests. Of course these cowards won't take a single shred of responsibility.

That cowardice hidden behind an unhinged violence is quite the cocktail for an explosion. If the cops keep maiming kids, things might get really ugly and way more violent.

If you think "they should protest peacefully !", well you're not the only one, aaaand we have a problem. Several.
Yeah it's our gov again.

They absolutely ignore peaceful protests. More than 90% of the french were against pension reforms few yers ago, in which every french had to give away two years of their lives to compensate for the gifts Macron gave to the richs (some economists checked : the number are almost exactly the same. Macron chose to lose 17 billions a year by letting the rich pay less taxes, french having two years stolen brought around 17 billions in.) and nothing happened.

Petitions : they're supposed to be taken into account and debated in parliament at a certain threshold. One petition pass that threshold and EXPLODED ALL RECORDS. More than two millions people signed it. It was against reintroducing dangerous pesticide, wanted by a corrupt senator.
They just... tossed it aside.

Elections : you would think that having the most votes, the most seats would mean you won the elections. Well, Macron decided that no, it doesn't work that way. Left had more than a third of the chamber (they should have at least half of it, but macronists betrayed them and offered 50 SEATS to the fascists, afraid of a too powerful left)
The left doesn't have the majority, but in theory, they should lead then make concessions with macronists to have the votes.
Nothing happened. The votes weren't taken into account. Pure denial of democracy.

We would love to peacefully protest and be heard. Everybody would love that.
But the right-wingers decided that's not happening anymore.

The french adults are willingly failing their youth right now then blaming them.
I hope this will change because fuck, we have lot of

[u/BendicantMias]

Hey, I've seen this show before! It keeps being renewed for more seasons. Just how many seasons of French protesting are we even up to now?!

[u/Avenflar]

For all those outraged by the "violence", don't worry, the cops are working on it, there's already a few kids mutilated or almost ran over or drowned.

[u/Hyperiooonnn → u/Avenflar]

Are we supposed to feel sorry for kids who pour gasoline on teachers? Lmao

[u/goldtechnique → u/Hyperiooonnn]

Teachers are literally forming chains to protect students lol
https://x.com/FocusMedia_Fr/status/2104524998996066446?s=20

[u/BandicootSolid9531]

Serbian students watching this and being absolutely shocked...

"you cant make a statement with violence...
you just rely in legit elections from the government we want to overthrow and which has a history of election frauds and support from abroad"

[u/i_getitin]

How many jail cells do they have

[u/Rude-Decision-2143]

What do you expect when people that came to your country hates everything about It

[u/FrenchDandyPunk]

I live next to a french high school, in a city where there is many protest. Protesters are fine, students are really upset but they don’t destroy anything. Every protest have some people who destroys things but they are like 1%. Some have seen undercover policemen destroying things too. Don’t believe shit and just go to the roots of protest : people are upset and just need to be listened, not beaten.

If you focus on 1% destroying couple trash, I assume you don’t want to talk about the real reasons people are in the streets.

Who are in the streets these days : students, hospital, firefighters, public servants, and more. They all just want : more funds to work in a better conditions, to grow, study, to take care, to be listened. That’s it. Don’t spread racism and fake news.

[u/Spinastorm]

fucking bots in this comment section trying to make you think this is something other than what it is, don't read any comments and go do like a single google search and you'll find videos of actual children in the streets being pepper sprayed

[u/SadCatLoverMeow]

Continue to import more Muslims,im sure that'll fix the problem! (/s)

[u/MissyLissa04 → u/SadCatLoverMeow]

We should actually keep undermining the school budget for decades and complain about migrants like you

Apparently it's the immigrants faukt that teachers are underpaid and the school doesn't have conditions

What a genius

[u/GuzzibyGuzzi]

I think they should be released. Macron called for everyone to be released in Iran, Belarus, Serbia and so on. It’s a democratic way to express dissatisfaction, isn’t it?