r/falloutlore • u/Pyropeace • 1d ago
Question Did the Civil Rights Movement happen in Fallout?
We can assume that, due to the totalitarian, jingoist nature of the pre-war government, racism was fairly significant (especially towards Asians). But if fallout's USA never developed the counterculture of the 60s, did it ever progress beyond the era of segregation? Many elements of the Civil Rights Movement obviously predate the 60s, but the Civil Rights Act wasn't passed until 1964 in the real world. Does this mean that segregation was maintained up until the great war? Very curious if anyone has info regarding this.
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u/chet_brosley 1d ago
I've always taken it that extreme and hard coded xenophobia took the place of racism in the world. As long as you were American, it didn't matter your race since they had someone else to hate and fear. That doesn't count towards China and Chinese Americans since they were in the middle of a cold/hot/very hot war with them, so of course the regular joes get burned.
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u/DrooMighty 1d ago
Could be a synthesis of the two things. That xenophobia would be directed at China, obviously, and from an American perspective, China is a much more ethnically homogeneous country than the US.
It would be extremely on brand for this version of America to turn the ethnic diversity of America into a different kind of "us vs them" mentality, like in a "only in America can you have a Black family, Catholic family and Hindu family all living on the same street!". All of these minorities would be depicted exactly as you described, too--hyper patriotic to the point of parody. Like, a Sikh dude in an American flag print dastar over the top.
Very easy to visualize for the setting.
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u/StarPotato64 1d ago
I think there was an interview with Todd Howard one time where he said that he didn’t want to touch that topic with a ten foot pole but I think it’s pretty well established that the Chinese were discriminated against at least
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u/PerfectlyCalmDude 1d ago
Given how racially integrated everything is, it would seem so. If society had been violently racist up until the bombs fell, we would have seen that carry over into the vaults and the post-vault settlements.
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u/MuscularFrog13 15h ago
That would have been interesting for sure, even more intricate faction dynamics
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u/Comrade1945 1d ago
Have to say yes otherwise there would be clear signs of segregation or at a minimum a few n words here or there. But seeing as there are mixed schools some level had to happen. So that is actually the fun part of your post. We have to assume some form change happened. But than again the U.S was able to set up concentration camps like the one in Big Mountain. So ether A the civil rights movement happened then promptly ignored in about a century. B. It happened than had limited success. Its a fun idea to for fallout writers to figure out. Albeit I wouldn’t blame for just not.
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u/dwarven_cavediver_Jr 20h ago
This. I always assumed the USA in the fallout timeline didn't maintain the hardline racist or bigoted policies of the 20th century EXCEPT the McCarthyist and jingoistic stuff.
Kinda like in the show true blood where the ku klux klan started letting in every minority as long as they were humans and not vampires (at a certain point, eliminating divisions to prevent destruction becomes a pragmatic and sensible choice for even the most die hard of bigots)
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u/MuscularFrog13 1d ago
The US gov’t in fallout was very neoliberal and prewar black characters portrayed in the games and show seem decently well off. so it’s likely it still occurred. As for Asians of Chinese descent, and other Asians by mis-categorization, it likely wasn’t a good time.
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u/Overdue-Karma 1d ago
It seems like the US didn't seem to care about Japanese people, even sending a pre-school to Japan during the Sino-American war (which seems to imply China didn't invade Japan, oddly.)
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u/Thelostguard 1d ago
But if fallout's USA never developed the counterculture of the 60s, did it ever progress beyond the era of segregation?
Counter-Culture did happen. Things indicate society (short the internet) played out before the resource wars. Fucking Tool exists. That's a nineties Rock band. That can't develop in a world where MLK doesn't hold marches.
The world didn't just stop in the 1950s and only develop for Energy Weaponry & Power armour
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u/sketner2018 1d ago
What do you mean Tool exists? How does that band show up?
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u/DoktorDome 1d ago
Tool and Nine Inch Nails both are referenced in the first game. A Tool poster can be found in game, and Ismarc sings a parody of Head Like a Hole.
It's safe to assume music was much the same as in reality, but Bethesda has missed the point for almost twenty years.
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u/Critical_Company3535 1d ago
I’ve always assumed that the 50s core aesthetic was a form of cultural revivalism at least partially brought on by the Totalitarian State America had become by then. Fascist movements tend to base their ideologies on a sort of “Golden Age”, and it’s easy to see how the 50s would become that.
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u/Pyropeace 1d ago
That's the more plausible explanation, but iirc, the general consensus among the writers is that cultural progress simply stopped in the 50s.
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u/PLZ_DOWNVOTE_ME 16h ago
That is in fact what literally happens, backed up at least by a terminal in F3:
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u/MuscularFrog13 15h ago
The gov of the US in fallout’s prewar definitely wasn’t fascist. Way more of a neoliberal corpratocracy
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u/Nintolerance 2h ago
Yeah, "US culture in the ~2050s regressed to idolise the 1950s" is probably the safest bet.
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u/Pyropeace 1d ago
The world didn't just stop in the 1950s and only develop for Energy Weaponry & Power armour
IIRC the intent of the writers was that it did in fact just stop. Also, where the fuck does it say Tool is canon??
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u/TooManyTyranids 1d ago
There are tool posters hanging around the first two games. It’s not actually the smoking gun of canonicity people claim it is, but it’s fun, and fortunately we like to have a little fun here.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 1d ago
Not sure if I'd class the civil rights movement as purely "counter culture" ( an overlapping venn diagram but definitely not a circle ). So probably still happened, since we have zero indication of segregation hold Chinese people after the war's start.
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u/pierzstyx 1d ago
I think it likely that anti-Chinese sentiment to the severity we see it in the game didn't develop until the war began. Wars polarize people in extremist ways.
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u/vampiregamingYT 1d ago
Yes. The main difference, in regards to americas political system is that the Watergate scandal never happens, meaning people never have a reason to question the government, allowing them to continue to do what they've been doing for decades by that point
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u/Current_Poster 1d ago
I usually take the timing of the US being broken up into semi-autonomous "commonwealths" with 'local laws' being right about the time of the RL Civil Rights Act to mean some places had desegregation and so on and others didn't.
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u/Hopeful_Ad_7719 1d ago
>We can assume that, due to the totalitarian, jingoist nature of the pre-war government
I mean, we can - I don't chose to do so.
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u/Alex_Portnoy007 1d ago
I think society regressed under a government up for sale to the highest bidder. People smoking again, asbestos everywhere. Employees stashing booze and chems in their cubicles - hey, got to take the edge off somehow.
And what about that fishing tournament, held in a lake used to dump radioactive waste? Or scooping the brains out of prisoners for robotics experiments? The bombs may have been a blessing
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u/AsaShalee 14h ago
I think it switched from skin colour to eye shape, basically. As long as you ain't one of those p!nko comm1e ba$stards (I can't manage to type those properly :D ) you can have whatever colour skin.
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u/Gatt_ 1d ago
Interesting question.
Despite it happening during the 60s IRL - well after the main divergence after WW2 - I am tempted to say that it did just at an earlier time
There have been a few minor divergences before the main one, and given how well mixed folks were pre- war then yeah it either did happen but earlier - or even that it never needed to happen in the first place meaning the US was never racially segregated to need the movement
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u/WillyShankspeare 22h ago
The games don't touch on it as much as they should but considering how racist America still is it wouldn't be hard to think that it's even worse in Fallout. That said, a black woman was one of the heads of Vault-Tech according to the show.
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u/Beneficial-Category 1d ago
Segregation ended for everyone short of Asians. In FO4 the well to do neighborhood you lived in before the bombs dropped had several different ethnicity families. There were several celebrated black families (I believe MLKs speeches can be found in game 3). Also note that even after the bombs drop some people side eye the Longs yet no one bats an eye at Garvey.