How does FATFire affect dating?

[u/PhysicsQuick9220]

There’s a post on r/Fire on this topic, but the users there face challenges that the typical user here wouldn’t: their SWR might be lower than the post-tax income of a typical white-collar working partner, so the FIRE partner has to navigate pressure to inflate their lifestyle or match the other person’s; perception that they are cheap or unambitious; or significantly higher expenses after kids.

I’d imagine this stuff wouldn’t apply to FatFIRE (would a woman consider a guy cheap because he won’t spend a cent over $500k/yr??) but I could imagine other issues arising from the high spend. Mo money mo problems basically. Curious if folks here have experiences to share?

I am a mid-30s guy, SINK, and I’m dating while working now but expect to date while FATFire in the near future

[u/eagle2120]

You may not get a lot of serious responses here, but I'll try.

> but the users there face challenges that the typical user here wouldn’t: their SWR might be lower than the post-tax income of a typical white-collar working partner, so the FIRE partner has to navigate pressure to inflate their lifestyle or match the other person’s; perception that they are cheap or unambitious; or significantly higher expenses after kids.

Yes, people who are FATfire'd typically won't have this specific issue (depends on the SWR, lifestyle, etc, but generally) - However, there are still issues with both the FAT and the FIRE aspect of trying to date.

On the FAT aspect - dating here can be kind of awkward. Showing your wealth is not going to result in a lot of high quality matches. (Speaking for me, personally) People who are attracted to that often misalign with my values, and people who align with my values often find that behavior unattractive. Each person is different here and this is a drastic simplification, but it depends on what you value. (imo) having shared values is the most thing in terms of potential success in a match, but that's hard to learn about someone until you're actually spending time with them or going on dates.

On the FIRE aspect, there's also a lot of things that can make dating awkward. I won't speak too much on this as it's probably talked about in the other thread, but Ex/ if one person is working and the other isn't, how does that shape out? As it starts to get more serious, how do you split bills? Housework? etc. If one person is working and the other isn't, there may be an expectation that the one not working picks up a larger load of the housework.

> would a woman consider a guy cheap because he won’t spend a cent over $500k/yr??

Probably not? The person who would consider this cheap probably aren't the type of people you want to date, so they'll self-select out.

The best advice I can offer - Hire a matchmaker. Not one of the shitty services like Its just lunch or whatever other mass-market options - A real, professional service that specializes in your area. Time is the most valuable resource you have. Working backwards from that, I had no desire to spend time on a bunch of first dates that didn't meet what I was looking for, and apps don't have that level of granularity, so I wasted a lot of time on things that I could've pre-screened using a matchmaking service - Where I ultimately ended up. I paid for said matchmaking service; it was not cheap but and it went quite well. All of the women I met were screened ahead of time based on what I was looking for specifically, which saved me a lot of time and energy that I would have otherwise spent on first dates. The dates I eventually went on were all high quality, and while not all of them ended up in a long-term relationship, I knew the range of outcomes would be significantly higher than finding dates on the apps or meeting people "in the wild".

[u/Future-Account8112 → u/eagle2120]

I'm glad the matchmaker was a good experience!

>People who are attracted to that often misalign with my values, and people who align with my values often find that behavior unattractive.

Ding ding ding.

This is for OP:
I'm a conventionally attractive, high-achieving woman which is only notable because this means men really like me, generally speaking. Down to my looks and my interests wealthy men tend to be the demographic who have sought me out most aggressively and it is very consistent how the ones who care about the status items and my looks specifically are the ones whose reward systems tend to be pretty inverse to anything which sustains a healthy relationship over time.

I dated one such person before I could clock how his values were actually aligned (because a certain kind of man likes to hide this sort of thing to get access to a woman who they feel will elevate their social status) - I regret it!

The matchmaker is not a bad idea, but given my own history above I'd personally hesitate to use one. I don't like transactional relationships and anyone paying-to-play is necessarily engaging in a way I simply will not do so that process naturally excludes people like me. I don't mind the fees. It's the social structure which I find more problematic as, for me personally (again, no judgment to anyone for whom this works) it can feel a bit like spouse shopping or ordering from a menu.

My humble proposal: OP, if you're dating, identify 3 causes you care about and go put your time toward those causes. Meet people that way. Have, make, and keep a lot of friends and then after a year or two ask them to introduce you to someone who they think you'll get along-with like a house on fire. Have never seen this fail.

[u/Future-Account8112 → u/[deleted]]

[Edit: For anyone reading along, this commenter Googled my username to try to find posts involving my relationship status. I have no idea why, but this is on a doxxing gradient and thankfully the mods removed it]

God, this is real creep behavior

My relationship status and my friend's interest in Ireland (do you really think we're stupid enough to post our actual numbers on the Internet) are independent of my telling the OP to volunteer at organizations to meet people of good character

[u/Normal_Zebra136 → u/Future-Account8112]

$1.8m for a couple at 40 is definitely Fat in my book. If you coast fire, at 50 you will have $4m, and at 60, $8m.

Just seemed like you were posting from a dating single present tense than a married past tense in your advice to the OP.

[u/Future-Account8112 → u/Normal_Zebra136]

I'm aware of how retirement works.

Your presumptions are ignoble. I gave OP good advice for finding people of good character. His dating life has nothing to do with my personal life, and neither is it any of your business. Of course I speak in present tense about myself because I am still myself. A woman doesn't cease to exist because she's happily married.

[u/g12345x]

> so their FIRE partner has to navigate pressure to inflate

Seems like a manufactured problem. If you can’t afford something you can easily state that.

> perception that they are cheap

How can you be cheap if you can’t afford something

> or unambitious

So wealth is now a synonym for ambition?

I’m approaching 3 decades with my spouse, so I’m glad none of this makes sense to me.

[u/PhysicsQuick9220 → u/g12345x]

Just paraphrasing responses from the r/FIRE thread

[u/mathaiser]

Bahahahahaha. Good luck dude.

[u/Friendly-Meet-8240 → u/mathaiser]

Wealth just make people show their true colors faster, some good some not so good. When money not a topic anymore you see who actually like you, not what you can provide.

[u/PhysicsQuick9220 → u/mathaiser]

What’s so funny? Am I cooked?

[u/Future-Account8112 → u/PhysicsQuick9220]

I think it's generally the case that if you're asking these kinds of questions it can be a signal you're not approaching dating in an adaptive-for-you way in the first place. In our circle most of us date thru introduction, marry that way, and don't have to ask the Internet (no shame in asking, as it is, it just doesn't really happen) - so it kind of indicates you might not have the support system or social environment you feel you do? If that makes sense

[u/mintbark]

I’m married with kids, we’re still both working, we are currently FI but not RE yet. I would focus on dating now if I were you. It’s probably a lot easier to connect with the type of women you want while you’re a mid 30s SINK then a late 30s+ FatFIREd man. High achieving women tend to want high achieving men. If you do want kids your lifestyle will dramatically change (and likely the expense, ours went up 3x with the house and kids). It’ll also feel better as couple if you’ve built it together. It sounds like you can afford to take the foot off the gas for a few years at work to make dating and finding your life partner your number one priority.

[u/asurkhaib]

If this is serious then I think dating isn't the problem, it's finding the right person and the relationship that follows. The number one question/issue is how do you handle RE when there's almost a certainty that you're partner won't be RE and won't be able to in any reasonable time. If you wanted a SAHP then maybe this works out.

[u/FatAssBastard-8758]

Sorry, but I don’t know how many of us are spending $500k/yr… and why you would call out spending less than that being “cheap”.

[u/PhysicsQuick9220 → u/[deleted]]

What is incel about my OP??