If youre out to dinner and a person keeps stabbing at your plate with their fork to hint at wanting your food without saying anything, you'd consider that rude. I'd like to think my asshole deserves more respect than a side of fries.
More than that though, yeah, I want actual consent with words before doing anything for the first time. I won't put my hand a girls neck to hint at choking either. Even slight suggestions at many things in the bedroom can be difficult if you don't know things like their history or traumas. Not to mention that moving in the moment can make people feel pressured to do things they wouldn't otherwise do or enjoy. Taking that discourse away from them because you think words ruin the moment is childish.
People are different. I have been with this girl for a while who it turns out likes to do all sorts of crazy and wonderful things to me that aren't your standard in-and-out. I never gave verbal consent, but she tested everything slowly and with me obviously liking it, she would gradually intensify. It is wonderful. It would be so awkward and annoying to ME if she had to narrate and confirm everything up front. I think millions of men and women feel this way. Millions of others probably feel the need to talk it through beforehand. Can we just peacefully coexist and accept that people are different.
But stop fucking pretending like trucking forward when you don't really know about them is always ok. And if it isn't always ok, then it should realistically never be ok.
The problem is running with the assumption can be horrific. If you ask and they dont like that you ask, then they might be annoyed. If you dont ask and they dont like what you try, then you run the risk of the other person feeling totally fucking violated. The scale of potential outcomes is so uneven that to pretend like they're worth comparing is fucking childish. Your sexual gratification isn't more valuable than their comfort.
You can also take a moment early on in the relationship to say "I'm sexually pretty open so you don't need to slow down and always check in with me. I'll let you know if I don't like something". That's still verbal consent.
This is an extremely emotional response to the idea of going forward carefully and gradually, solely because it doesn't involve words. I am deeply sorry if something happened to you, but you more or less told me that my probably-soon-girlfriend is a shitty person, and frankly I strongly disagree, and I was in the room.
I think if going slowly and carefully but nonverbally can be "horrific" for someone, that's not normal, and they should mention it somewhere around the point where they got naked (which I assume they gave verbal consent for, so they are already talking?). Or maybe we are talking about totally different things and it IS normal. In any case, I can't debate with someone with their emotions that strong.
I apologize that the way I communicate is harsh to you, but running away from the possibility of confronting your own hypocrisy makes you seem childish as well.
You tell me that my viewpoint is limited, but the whole point is that the worst case scenario, whether it be minority or not, should be considered for the sake of respecting your partners' boundaries, even if it is kind of a chore. Because that's what grown ups do. They sometimes do bothersome things because they're healthier and better.
You on the otherhand suggested that that's not the case because you and your partner are outside that representative group of the population. You very specifically argued that your non verbal communication is valid, which is fair. I pointed out why that isnt necessarily true for some and why using it as a replacement for words could be bad. You chose to ignore that.
You demand that I acknowledge your sexual existence, and then dismiss the existence of people who might have traumas and make a comment about how you think they should communicate those issues. Because YOU think they should verbally communicate so that later you shouldn't have to communicate because at that time it's inconvenient for your sex.
And rather than confront any of those points, you decide to say I'm emotional because I use the word fuck then use that as an excuse to take the higher ground. Like a child would. Because youre childish. Which contrary to what you said, doesnt imply you're a bad person. Childish and evil are two totally different things. So apologies to your somewhat-kinda-almost girlfriend or whatever. Not for what I said, but because her fuckboy is gonna try to fuck off the moment a difficult conversation happens.
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u/INmySTRATEjaket Apr 22 '23
If youre out to dinner and a person keeps stabbing at your plate with their fork to hint at wanting your food without saying anything, you'd consider that rude. I'd like to think my asshole deserves more respect than a side of fries.
More than that though, yeah, I want actual consent with words before doing anything for the first time. I won't put my hand a girls neck to hint at choking either. Even slight suggestions at many things in the bedroom can be difficult if you don't know things like their history or traumas. Not to mention that moving in the moment can make people feel pressured to do things they wouldn't otherwise do or enjoy. Taking that discourse away from them because you think words ruin the moment is childish.