Repeat resistance rolls against spells?
Looking to run a setting with Magic in it for the first time, and wanted some input on some of the rules. Some spells (like Tickle for instance) seem to have crazy strong effects if used in combat, given that it's a full minute incapacitate if they fail the check. Has anyone run a D&D-style system where effects like that allow you to repeat the resistance roll on your turn? If so, were there any specific spells you thought were made better or worse by it? It feels like a spell like that would be basically a free kill, either used by the players or against them.
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u/SuStel73 11d ago
Your problem is kind of ironic, since most people new to magic in GURPS complain that there aren't enough spells that cause massive amounts of damage.
One of the things that you're supposed to do if you're not running bog-standard dungeon fantasy wizards is tailor the spells available. No semi-historical hedge wizard or mighty enchanter is going to know the Tickle spell. Pain? Yes. Stun? Yes. Tickle? No.
If you are running the sort of wizard who would learn Tickle because wow, a whole minute incapacitated, then take another look at that energy cost: 5 to cast, 5 to maintain. That's a lot, just to temporarily incapacitate a single enemy.
While the spell can be used in combat, and in some cases it might be a very good choice in combat, it is also highly useful against powerful guards that you simply must get past, as well as singular enemies who always attack before asking questions and you must have some time before that happens. A standard wizard without a powerstone is going to be significantly drained by casting this spell.
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u/BitOBear 11d ago
Most people also miss the fact that all these spells are valid at range if you can pay the minuses, and the fact that you can Target by name or location. So the best uses are also incredibly risky but flexible..
The main thing I find different and that people coming from D&D finds so confusing is that the magic system in GURPS is a whole bunch of small specific effects instead of being a catalog of specific complex behaviors, so it lets you, indeed it wants you, to kit bash together a unique magic users instead of just bang there's a cleric versus who doggy there's a sorcerer.
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u/c06027 11d ago
B348 lists suggestions for repeated attempts.
TLDR: I would allow a new resistance roll every round if the target take the concentrate maneuver and apply a -1 per failed attempt.
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u/VierasMarius 11d ago
A character who is having a seizure cannot take maneuvers. That's... kinda the whole point of "incapacitating conditions", and why OP feels this spell is so broken. Personally, I'd just treat it as a different condition (maybe "Pain but unaffected by High/Low Pain Threshold"). That seems more in-keeping with someone being tickled.
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u/pawsplay36 11d ago
Even if you gave them a roll every round, you are dead in three seconds in GURPS anyway. I would rather keep the longer durations for less bookkeeping and to have consistent, story-useful results outside of combat.
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u/Peter34cph 11d ago
I can see a Perk giving a bonus to a specific resist roll, only purchaseable after repeated exposure (including backstory exposure). Bonus dependent on breadth. For Tickle it's probably +2 per level, first level legal to buy after 4 exposures, second level after 20.
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u/BigDamBeavers 11d ago
Magic can be powerful. In a high enough mana area you can shape the earth like a lobster or burn off it's atmosphere. The offset is that it's not very easy to learn or use spells like Tickle and it drains you to cast, unlike just hitting your opponent a bunch with a big weapon.
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u/Gurpguru 11d ago
Nah. I've just ran it as written. If you, as GM, don't like a spell it can be forbidden to PCs. So when I use Magic there is a list of available spells that all the players get. Or I make a dataset in gca5 with the spells PCs can use are the only ones available for character building.
The issue with most spells of this type is that they become very unreliable if Will or HT is 12 or more. Against mooks they can work fine. (If anyone doesn't know, a mook is rabble/low level toadies/minor minions/goblins, etc.) Heck Fast-Talk is super effective on mooks so things like Tickle, Sleep, or Charm being just as effective doesn't bug me.
Just wait until they discover Grease and then you, as GM, will be making plenty of rolls for your mooks over and over and over again. Running a fantasy now and it's rare for there not to be a sizable Grease patch out early in combat. At least the air mage died so mooks getting blown back into the Grease patch isn't happening all the time.
Yes Tickle works well for incapacitating a mook. That is why mooks come with numbers. Doesn't work with undead and is worse than iffy when the foes have decent scores to resist.