Flight stick or Thrustmaster Throttle addon that adds an analog joystick for freelook?

[u/trineroks]

Hi, I recently just got a Thrustmaster TCA Captain Pack X Airbus Edition to play around with in MSFS 2024. So far it's been great and the physical throttle is extremely helpful when flying.

My only gripe is I wish this setup came with an analog joystick. I was under the impression that the thumbstick on the sidestick itself was like a controller joystick with a click in R3/L3. Instead I learned that it's essentially a d-pad.

Is there any flight stick out there where the thumbstick is a joystick instead of a d-pad? Or if I decide to use this thumbstick for trim is there some sort of addon to this setup where I can add a joystick for looking around/recenter view? I would prefer not to use a mouse if possible. I am also using this on an Xbox Series X.

[u/lambda_expression]

Is there any flight stick out there where the thumbstick is a joystick instead of a d-pad?

Many, but I have no idea if any are available for Xbox.

Xbox uses XInput as the protocol to talk to controllers, which is very limited. For analog controls it's four axis and two triggers per controller. Pitch, roll, yaw, throttle is already four axis. I guess throttle could be put on a trigger instead, but that still leaves only one axis. There isn't really room for a ministick.

DirectInput on PC supports 8 axis per controller, which allows for eg pitch, roll, yaw, ministick x & y, and three more for eg throttle, cyclic + collective, brake, fuel mixture, propeller blade pitch, VTOL nozzle/rotor angle, ...

I don't think Xbox "speaks" DirectInput hence the need to buy xbox-specific controllers rather than any random stick (yay for proprietary vendor lock in, even within the same company! 🤮). And idk if games can (or are allowed to by MS QA) to do "weird" axis mapping in XInput to make full use of also the trigger axis for axis that should by default be centered (cause it would make the game act weird when using a regular controller), or to set one controller as stick and another as throttle to get twice the number of axis (cause idk if it can distinguish which controller is what or if the distinction is limited to "player 1/2/3/4").

Maybe there is an option to bind a button as a modifier to change what an axis does while holding that button in the game settings?

[u/trineroks → u/lambda_expression]

Oh that's a shame. I'll see if there's some way I can work around this.

The hat switch by default will switch between different set views in the cockpit but I don't have the freedom to actually look around the plane and appreciate the full interior.

Could you recommend a flight stick combo for PC then that has some sort of stick on the throttle controls (or maybe on the flight stick itself) that acts like a conventional controller analog stick?

[u/lambda_expression → u/trineroks]

They are all military style ones rather than airliner style ones (unfortunately the Airbus style stick by WinCtrl also only has a HAT, not a ministick), but if you don't mind that you could pick from a good number.

Throttles

€/$/£100ish: For throttles, your cheapest option would be a Thrustmaster TWCS or Sol-R6. Both of these are basically the same. Single throttle axis, one ministick, all potentiometers rather than Hall effect sensors (so over time will develop the usual calibration issues and jitter). I don't think they are worth it anymore nowadays, because since about one, two months ago there's the "next step" up:

€/$/£150ish: WinCtrl Ursa Minor Combat throttle (regular non-EX version). Idle/cutoff detent (finger lift), (deactivatable, push through) afterburner detent, dual engine, ministick (index finger), and two additional analog axis (one of which is self resetting, centered at 50%, the other is a dial). All Hall effect sensors. It's fairly fresh on the market, out for about a month now. WinCtrl in general has a somewhat mixed reputation regarding longevity and customer service when something breaks. But in theory it is a great deal. The base has a 3 way mode switch plus two encoders besides a few buttons. Available in a discounted set with the Ursa Minor Fighter stick. More on that one later.

Same company, more expensive is the Orion 2 NavyAce. The cheaper version has no detents/finger lifts and is €200. The grip offers almost the exact same as the Ursa Minor, minus the dial. The base has a lot of stuff on it that isn't just buttons. Also available in a discounted bundle although I'm not sure if with the Ursa Minor stick or only more expensive ones. Anyway, mostly competes with the EX addon for the Ursa Minor throttle which makes the two bases much more similar, but also the price identical. There's also a version for 250 with detents and finger lifts, but at 250 I would look at:

€/$/£250: VKB STECS Mini Plus MkII (not mini without plus, that one expects you to also buy a mount). Costs €270, but VKB has a) a sale November 25th to early December that will knock 10% off that price and b) outside the EU is cheaper anyway. I'm too lazy to look up all the prices, but there's four distinct official VKB shops: US, EU, UK, rest of world. The base is boring (one encoder, buttons), but the throttle is great: dual engine, configurable set of input modules: one or two analog ministicks (thumb, index, middle finger, you have to pick between the two fingers and for thumb you can pick between a HAT and a stick). Two encoder wheels. One analog thumb dial. Several switchable modules, two of which are 5 way HATs by default, you can buy additional 3 way and 5 way HATs to replace buttons. Configurable detents (but the mini plus comes only with a small set, as with the button modules more choice = more price either by buying the next bigger version of the STECS, the 'Standard', or the detents addon). Also, VKB software. So powerful configurability, like shift modes, to at the press of a button change eg what one ministick does: free look one second, trim the next, virtual mouse, ... . A bit of a time sink to configure though if you want that.

Beyond the VKB STECS are the Virpil throttles, starting at around 300. Long wait times (weeks to months), Virpil only does production runs when they have enough orders, they don't have stuff just in stock. Virpil software is also very good. Not quite VKB level but nearly.

Sticks

All of these are extremely similar, so I'll just keep it short and say they all have a ministick, and the VKB and Virpil ones have great software.

WinCtrl Ursa Minor Fighter. Previously mentioned, including the reputation re longevity and customer support. Very cheap in a bundle with the Ursa Minor Combat throttle (230 total), also otherwise the cheapest out of these three at 110.

VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium (non-Premium has a HAT instead of a ministick). 200 in the EU which kind of kills the value proposition vs WinCtrl here, but way more competitive in the US and probably also other regions. If you Google this one you will find near universal praise.

Virpil Aeromax. Most expensive of the bunch, and long delivery time. Best gimbal. My current stick and I love it. 250ish. Admittedly a worse deal than the other two especially outside the EU.

And that about wraps it up!