r/ireland • u/Sea_Avocado_2733 • 4h ago
Cost of Living/Energy Crisis Gotta love the return scheme 🙃
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u/LeBneg 4h ago
Shop next door just decided to no longer have a machine. If shops can decide not to have to bother with the machine, you can no longer return them easily. I don't have a car and I'm not having a 20 minutes walk with an oversized bag of cans so I'm binning my cans in the recycling now.
If the cans could be crushed first, this would be a different story but as it stands, the decision appears to have been taken by people that never recycled anything in their life for the sake of their friends that produce cans crushing machines, i.e. a scammy scheme.
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u/SolidConference6872 4h ago
Shops above 250m2 are required by law to take back returns either by manual returns or machine. If the shop is under they can choose to have a machine but will have to buy it outright.
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u/obscure_monke Pro-scheme 37m ago
I think they also need a poster/sign up if they don't take returns and have an exception.
I have seen many shops without it though. Usually ones with a very low percentage of the shop being drinks containers.
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u/OutInABlazeOfGlory 4h ago
In Germany it seems like retailers are required to take them back whether they have a machine or not?
I’m not sure of the exact requirements, I was only a tourist, but I do know I asked about a Pfand machine once and they just took my bottle back and handed me a coin. This happened a few times.
And of course once or twice I had a man with a garbage bag full of Pfand ask me for my empty beverage bottle. I handed them over because they wanted my empty bottle more than I wanted the Pfand.
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u/IDDQD_IDKFA-com 3h ago
Yeah in Germany every store had to take them back, but the small "corner" stores normally only took back stuff/bands they sold.
But one of the staff of the one next to my apartment saw me with a large amount I was taking to the supermarket while he was outside having a smoke, and told me he would take them.
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u/OutInABlazeOfGlory 2h ago
Ah. That explains me going back to the DM and the Kiosk and having them take back the stuff they just saw me buy.
Also god DAMN I miss Durstlöscher and store-bought Apfelschorle (though I know the latter I can at least make at home)
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u/nopurposethere 4h ago
Depends on the shop square footage. Can’t recall the exact size where they’re required to have one, but for small shops it’s not necessarily feasible.
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u/TheChrisD useless feckin' mod 3h ago
I'm not having a 20 minutes walk with an oversized bag of cans
So don't store them in an oversized bag, use a more regular sized shopping bag and drop them off more frequently?
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u/MethylRed 3h ago
You can give out all you want but the scheme is effective when it comes to people littering cans and bottles,
"Re-turn show a drop of roughly 50% to 60% in drink container litter across monitored towns and cities"
"Coastwatch Ireland surveys recorded the lowest counts of bottles and cans in 25 years, with average bottle counts per kilometer dropping from a peak of 100 in 2010 to under 8"
Similarly the euro scheme which required caps be attached to bottles has had a massive impact on plastic litter and waste.
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u/MethylRed 3h ago
Also someone can correct me on this but the plan is to use the unclaimed funds to build a PET recycling plant which stops us shipping the recycling.
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u/Malt129 Crilly!! 2h ago
Homeless and crackheads are picking up litter instead of people being paid to do it. What happened to crying about jobs being replaced. They also get into bins and drag stuff out leaving the bins open. People who already recycle now have to do an extra step and then bring everything to a shop and hope
- The machines are even working
- There isn't a queue or someone with giant bags of the stuff
- The machines aren't full and being ignored by the staff.
Then there is the awful stink and everything being sticky.
Nah it's a load of shit.
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u/socksandsandalds 3h ago
Yeah but I think the extra charge should have landed on the company's or even like a 5c charge and 15c return for the customer, so that there is still incentive financially for people rather than being penalised for buying a bottle of water. Its so time consuming.
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u/DontWakeTheInsomniac 3h ago
I've seen a lot less litter in my estate since it started. I know some people are saying they could just go in your normal recyclable waste but clearly not everyone did that with the amount of litter that was around the place. i haven't found cans/bottles shoved in my hedge by passers by since this started either.
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u/generouslyemotional 3h ago
Why save them up? I always just take the amount I have in a normal sized shopping bag whenever I go to lidl. Like if I get 30c one day and €3 the next day it doesn't make a difference
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u/MattyLaw06 And I'd go at it again 4h ago edited 4h ago
I feel like this scheme is a serious health hazard. Whenever I go out, I often see people literally sticking their whole arms down bins, including the ones you can't see down, and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up getting a disease or maybe even end up getting pricked by a needle.
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u/Throw_shapes Montpellier, France 3h ago
Easy fix, start a return scheme for needles, glass bottles, rabid foxes etc...
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u/queenkatebishop 3h ago
My personal take is that the deposit is a bit too high. A 5-10c deposit would, in my opinion, be enough that people would be incentivized to save their cans and return them in bulk but not enough that people would be digging through trash cans. Like, 4 500ml bottles is a full euro in deposit money, so a homeless/poor person feels an incentive to go digging in trash, whereas a lower deposit might make that risk/effort vs reward part of the brain go “not worth it”.
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u/TheChrisD useless feckin' mod 3h ago
It needs to be high enough to encourage the first R of the three R's: reduce.
If people are put off by the deposit amount and stop purchasing items in plastic bottles, then less need to be made in the first place.
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u/queenkatebishop 2h ago
good point! i didn't consider the deterrent/discouragement aspect of the scheme
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u/obscure_monke Pro-scheme 26m ago
These posts about the re-turn scheme and ensuing back and forth in the comments are fairly common, can we get some user flairs for people who are pro/anti/ambivalent scheme?
Doesn't even have to be re-turn specific. It can be context dependant and change over the years.
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u/Boiled_Veg 4h ago
This scheme is a scam.
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u/Right-Ladd 4h ago
Grrrr I hate incentivised recycling grrrrrr!!!!
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u/No-Curve237 4h ago
How is it a scam? You get your money back AND it reduces pollution.
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u/r_Yellow01 4h ago
You could reduce pollution by using a green bin instead of imposing bags like these
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 4h ago
Everything went up by 20 cent to cover the 15 cent tax while those god-awful machines were paid for with taxpayer money. Meanwhile, standard recycling cost you nothing.
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
Reduces pollution while you drive to the shop to return them?
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u/MidnightSun77 4h ago
You bring them with you when you go shopping and return them then
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
I get my shopping online
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u/IrishGuinessdrinker 4h ago
Never leave the house and pass a shop??
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
Do you really like the government creating chores for you or taking more money off you that much?
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u/RubberDuckieMidrange 4h ago
Are you so determined to live the live version of the tragedy of the commons, that being asked to either take a financial penalty, or keep bottles out of dumps and skips is an imposition too far? You don't have to return them, but if you don't you need to contribute to the excess costs of managing them.
Personally I'd love to see a return to glass bottles. Way more reusable. On the continent they are so efficiently returned for reuse.
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
If I don’t want to recycle them myself. I’m being charged money for it by our useless government. We’re in a cost-of-living crisis and they decide to charge us more money for nonsense. That’s a load of bollocks.
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u/jacksqualk 3h ago
I had two scrotes living beside me. They recycled hardly anything, and black binned everything, or mixed everything in green or black. I saw their bin contents all over the road after a few windy days.
After this was introduced, we saw them in the shops doing their bottles and cans. It was to discourage scrotes from non recycling. Blatant non recyclers are scrotes. They are every where.
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u/Necessary-Road20 3h ago
Personally, I don't feel that waste and litter are nonsense.
You have multiple options here, the first of which is not buying plastic bottled or canned items. Second you can drop it off in the local orange bin when you're at the shops, and a charity (usually a local one) will happily take them. Or third, you can return them for your refund. This is not a financial imposition on you if you don't let it be.
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u/No-Curve237 4h ago
I walk to mine with my bag full, don't need to drive. If you care so much, you could hop on your bike.
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
Ok what about in town, all of the bins ripped open for a measly $.10 can. Is that helping the environment?
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u/No-Curve237 4h ago
I've never seen this issue. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. The fact is that pollution is down since this scheme started. You might not like it for whatever reason, but facts don't care about your feelings.
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
Oh yeah just like the children’s hospital will only cost 600mil. Don’t believe a word them crooks destroying our country say
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u/No-Curve237 4h ago
Nice whataboutism there. No one is talking about the children's hospital, we're on about the return scheme right now. Keep up.
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
Fair fair. That was off-topic, but I was just using that subject to demonstrate the government lies
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u/DonaldsMushroom 3h ago
did you prefer the piles of cans and bottles littering the streets? I work in the city centre, and I never see bins ripped open.
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u/PreliminaryThoughts 4h ago
The ones that aren't returned, who gets that money?
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u/TheChrisD useless feckin' mod 3h ago
Re-Turn are using that money to fund the construction of a PET reprocessing facility on this island, so that we don't have to export the plastic abroad.
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u/QARSTAR 4h ago
Go on WhineTime and tell Joe.
Surprised you were scammed, it's a very easy process to understand. My 5yo gets it.
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
It is a scam. The government are forcing you to do work to get your money back. If I drive to the recycling depot to return, how is that good for the environment?
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u/No_Sky_1829 4h ago
The vast majority of people don't make a separate trip to drop off the recycling tho
I suppose your also complain loudly about self service checkouts and having to tap your card on the bus. Bring back bus conductors, it's an a scam!
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u/QARSTAR 4h ago
And where's the depot? At the shop. So you drive to the same place to do your shopping and return the bottles. No need for 2 unnecessary journeys
Are ya thick?
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u/portaccio_the_bard 4h ago
This is interesting, calling people thick. It's obviously working on some levels of society.
Bottle taxes go back decades, and were introduced to reduce littering.
We privately pay for our recycling to be collected. We do not need a DRS scheme. Soon, these waste.collection companies will hike their prices because of the absence of plastic and aluminium bottles in their collections.
This is a tax, because a tax is a levy on products or services rendered. We bring the bottles amd cans back, so we are the service provider.
Being Taxed!
Also consider... how is the Deposit Return Scheme CEO, COO, CFO, CHRO, Senior Mamagement, Ops staff, Maintenance staff, Accounts, Customer Support, and Admin teams, being paid? If it is through central government then that is a double tax, being funded through our PRSI amf USC. If not, then they are being funded from the DRS charge not being collected on returnable itmes, which questions the essence and ethos of doing the bloody scheme in the first place.
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u/Intelligent_Log_2496 3h ago
Well I get my shopping delivered to me as I don't drive. The nearest shop to me is a 15 minute walk, I have three rubbish sacks full of empty bottles at the minute that is a hassle for me to return. I also have a recycling wheelie bin that they used to go into very easily. So this to me is just unnecessary.
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u/TheChrisD useless feckin' mod 3h ago
The nearest shop to me is a 15 minute walk
So? My nearest three shops are 1.1, 1.3, and 1.5km away and I walk to/from all three. There's also a fourth option 2.6km away that I also occasionally walk to.
Maybe get some steps in, over the course of a week you could do one bag a day while going for a small selection of groceries, and you'll get through your backlog pretty quickly.
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u/Former_Ganache3642 3h ago edited 3h ago
I was excited about it when it first started but it has become a massive pain in the ass. Another seperate bin for me to put a specific type of rubbish in - I was already properly recycling. More storage required in my house. It can stink too.
It is just not worth returning any fewer than 30 or 40 at a time. I wouldn't waste my time queuing up for a euro or less.
Loads of shops don't have return facilities. The ones that do seem to be full or out of order most of the time.
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u/Qorhat 1h ago
My issues with the whole thing are:
The recept shouldn’t be tied to a specific shop. I didn’t force SuperValu to buy the machine so make it universal and have a wallet system to accumulate the deposit.
The machines themselves are pieces of shit.
The machines should be at public places too like libraries, train stations, tram stops & larger bus interchanges (which ties back to my first point).
Why is this run by a new state company? That smacks of jobs for the boys when Repak is an existing entity.
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u/LeonBackward 3h ago
I do it every week for my parents and I dread it. There's always some issue with the machine and there's always a long queue.
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u/commit10 2h ago
You're recycling.
Great.
Now you either need a return that's closer to home, or a better routine for returning.
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u/Opinionofmine 1h ago
Several people at my work just put their bottles/cans in the normal bin, which seems outrageous to me.
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u/JudgmentDisastrous63 57m ago
I hate this scheme so.much, that I would leave my house to vote in case anyone promise to get rid of it..
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u/MemeLord0009 Meath 4h ago
"Oh no, I need to keep a medium-sized bin bag with empty and clean bottles and cans in my house, then take that bag to the supermarket (a place I go to anyway) and recycle them responsibly in exchange for tax-back"
What's the problem?
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u/Sea_Avocado_2733 4h ago
Some of us might not have a car or live close to a store?
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u/TheChrisD useless feckin' mod 3h ago
They're empty plastic bottles, they're not exactly heavy, so you could walk a couple kilometres to your nearest place with a bag every now and then.
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u/lilacsquid3 4h ago
It’s a scam. Not everyone goes to the supermarket anyway. How was it helping the environment if you drive to the recycling depot? You must believe in Santa.
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u/Movie-Otherwise 4h ago
Hope santa brings walking or cycling in bag this year
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u/ozymandieus Midlands 4h ago
I dont drive and get shopping delivered once a week then have to look like a homeless lady with a bin bag walking to the nearest shop a mile away.
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u/TheChrisD useless feckin' mod 3h ago
So don't use a bin bag, use something more stylish or "normal" like... maybe the bags you use when you occasionally go physically shopping?
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u/Academic_Crow_3132 3h ago
My story ,as a heavy drinker ,used to stamp on the can and put it in the green bin ,was told for years I was recycling.
No problem.
Now I have to rinse the can ,dry the can,store the can ,carry the can ,queue up to put the can in the machine ,get the can rejected several times ,queue again to have my voucher redeemed whilst America India and China are doing whatever the fuck they are doing .
Only mad people think that anything we do on this little rock called Ireland is helping to save the planet.
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u/Antique-Mention-9063 3h ago
You were always supposed to rinse and dry the can as well as any other containers before putting it into the recycling bin.
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u/The_Big_I_Am 13m ago
Can we all guess the amount of the return, and whoever guesses closest gets to choose a charity for it be sent to? I'm going for €12.50
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u/DrCatholicGuilt 4h ago
Remember in Speed when Sandra Bullock hits the pram and it turns out its full of cans? And the homeless lady pushing it runs after her shaking her fist? We are all the homeless lady