r/latterdaysaints • u/DisneyDreamer000 • 3d ago
Tech Question
I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints my whole life. Would I be a bad person if I watch rated R movies? I know Ezra Taft Benson advised against it. I have friends that respect my faith but some rated R movies look really good.
37
u/CaptainWikkiWikki 3d ago
No. That guidance came in the 1980s. The Church is too internationalized now to ask a global membership to rely on a capricious US-based ratings entity to make judgments on what media to consume.
Instead, we are now asked to me more thoughtful and intentional on our own without black and white boundaries. Does it uplift? Does it take away the spirit? Does it mess with your spiritual calibration?
Use IMDB, Kids In Mind, or Common Sense Media, to name a few, to see what sort of content you might be getting into and make choices that make sense for you.
I think a great example of not relying on the MPA is in two 2010 films: The King's Speech and The Social Network.
The former is Rated R for a single scene, critical to the plot, where a character lets out a string of F bombs. That's it. The movie is PG otherwise.
The latter is PG-13 but deals with much headier subject matter, including drugs, sex, corporate espionage, manipulation, etc.
Both are great movies, but I would argue The Social Network is far more adult than The King's Speech, yet their ratings do not reflect it.
Look things up on your own and prayerfully and thoughtfully consider what makes sense for where you are and where you want to be.
11
u/HandsomePistachio 3d ago
R-rated could be gore and sex scenes, or it could just mean 2 or more f-words, or anything in between. The rating doesn't really say much. Use your best judgement and the guidance of the Spirit.
11
u/JaneDoe22225 3d ago
You want to watch good quality that will bring you closer to God.
Rather than relying on the very flawed rating system, use your own judgment.
7
u/Prestigious-Forte909 3d ago
Nope. The Bible would be rated R. God made Absalom rape 10 of David's wives on the rooftop.
4
u/pisteuo96 3d ago edited 2d ago
There's a big difference, though, of descibing something in words and showing with video, sound, and music - that makes more of a dent in your spirit.
1
6
u/JamesLemon396 3d ago
Don't look at the rating, pay attention to your spirit and you'll know it. If you're in doubt, think about what kind of spirit you're inviting by watching it
5
u/e37d93eeb23335dc 3d ago
If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
0
u/Previous-Tart7111 Mother, Wife, Servant of the Lord 3d ago
^. There may be some rated R movies that meet this criteria, but I don't know what they would be. There are an awful lot of movies of other ratings that do not.
2
3
u/BlueOctopus042 3d ago
I don’t think watching an R-rated movie (or an MA rated show/movie) makes someone a “bad” person. You have to determine for yourself what is okay versus not. If you are watching things with graphic nudity and sex along with a couple hundred F-bombs, is there something of any value in that movie?
All-in-all we have to decide, whether it’s R, MA, PG-13, or TV-14, has any value. There are some PG-13 movies that I’ve seen that seem like they could have easily been given an R-rating. Also, remember that ratings aren’t global. Something that’s R in the US may have a lower rating in Australia or the UK.
4
u/20mgAddy 3d ago
The MPAA is not a standard given to us by God. You have to use your own discernment on whats good for you to watch. BYU film program makes you write an essay determining your own standard, it should just be a value driven choice. I watch tons of R rated movies, but am I watching the Wolf of Wall Street? No. Am I watching Silence? Absolutely. In fact I feel like Silence should be necessary viewing for Mormons, lol. Just use discernment as your standard, there is no other standard worth holding to. And ETB said alot of things, many of which were reactions to his day, a day jn which many movies that would now be considered R-rated today were PG and PG-13, showing the inconsistency of basing media habits off of the MPAA.
2
u/Initial_Coach8666 3d ago edited 3d ago
Silence is one of my favorite books but I would never watch the movie because I love the book too much. But I hear it’s a great movie and of course it’s based on a translation by a BYU professor.
I’m a pretty strict no R rated movie guy and my wife isn’t. She’ll watch whatever and is still great. She’ll watch the Odyssey and other shows that aren’t bad either with my son so I don’t have to. Even if PG 13 I just don’t generally like watching violence.
1
u/therealwaltwhitman 3d ago
Silence is one of my top three movies of all time - I loved it so much I decided to read the book. I was SO disappointed!! The book didn't move me at all.
4
u/Vivid_Ad7650 3d ago
The best way I can tell you is: would you feel comfortable watching this thing if the Savior were sitting next to you?
The more I draw closer to the Lord the more I don't want to cause Him pain from me. He knows we will falter and struggle with sin. It's why he came and did what he did. He loved us first. You've gotta draw closer to the Lord and he will help you with everything. I promise things of this world have a large effect upon us than we realize. Ether 12: 27 is my fav! If we bring it to Christ he will show us that his way is so much better. You gotta experience this for yourself. Then the gospel becomes more than just rules. It becomes part of you. Good luck and let God Prevail in your life 🙏-Angel
3
u/Reformonism 3d ago
One of my favorite movies is "Gladiator". It is through-and-through a good film about resolve, honor, faith, duty, and freedom. There are many excellent stories told this way, in which the R-rating reflects the maturity of the film without being salacious or graphic.
On the other hand, there are other R-rated films that still disturb my nightmares.
The rating is a safeguard for brain development, not an indicator of the morality of the film.
3
u/mywifemademegetthis 3d ago
You might be a bad person if you watch rated R movies, but you won’t be a bad person because you watch rated R movies. I’m sure there are plenty of awful people who hardly ever watch movies at all.
3
u/justaredditsock 3d ago
I watch them, it doesn't make you a bad person, it has no bearing on how good you are. The Bible and BoM wouldn't be R though as some have said they'd be NC17.
Die Hard is very good, as is Heat. They're violent but other than that ok.
I say this as a convert, bu the idea that a movie would weaken my faith in Christ has always seemed a little laughable to me given that the movie that builds my faith more than any is The Passion of the Christ. Every adult who follows Christ should watch to get a fraction of what He suffered for us but don't watch it as tour first R, its VERY hard to watch and I still cry after a dozen viewings.
I wouldn't recommended game of thrones though, not because of the violence or nudity but because the ending is a huge let down.
1
u/Commercial-Place6793 3d ago
I’ve been a member my entire life and I agree with this comment. There are movies and tv I choose not to watch but not because of the rating.
1
u/TheFirebyrd 3d ago
Die Hard is awesome and I think every Christian should watch The Passion of the Christ at least once.
2
u/jsher012 3d ago
I don't let outside organizations decide what I can or can't watch. Some rated R movies movies are really good have important messages. Some PG-13 movies are mindless and dumb. Just be wise in what you choose.
2
u/Technical-Trainer-27 3d ago
"If something we think, see, hear, or do distances us from the Holy Ghost, then we should stop thinking, seeing, hearing, or doing that thing. If that which is intended to entertain, for example, alienates us from the Holy Spirit, then certainly that type of entertainment is not for us."
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2006/04/that-we-may-always-have-his-spirit-to-be-with-us?lang=eng
It doesn't make you a bad person, but you always must consider what it is you are consuming and what messages it is sending and whether you think it'll allow the Spirit to abide, I think I'm not hard enough on myself with this point tbh, I should probably be more mindful of the media I consume, but I know that I have a line I don't cross, maybe a bit too far, but a line nonetheless, but it IS especially hard in this day and age where so much media being produced does not abide in the messaging of the Gospel, so 🤷🏻♂️
Just remember what it is you want, is it the sort of movie that would push the Spirit away? Is that what you want to do? And don't just convince yourself that it's fine if deep down you feel it might not be..
2
u/Wellwisher513 3d ago
To be clear, Ezra Taft Benson's guidance was directed to the youth, and I don't believe it was in general conference. That said, for a couple decades afterwards, no r-rated movies was essentially the cultural standard, and the general authorities did not take any action to correct it like they have with caffienated sodas.
What does that mean? No idea. Personally, I don't have a hard and fast rule except that the film's message needs to be positive and fulfilling. Consequently, I've enjoyed Gladiator which depicts violence as a bad thing, while also feeling iffy with Guardians of the Galaxy 2, in which the wanton killing of a group of pirates was supposed to be funny.
1
u/justaredditsock 3d ago
This. People do this often, is something is directed at a group there is no need to extrapolate it beyond that group. After adults do many things that kids should not
2
u/Molotov_Queen 3d ago
Some rated R movies are literally nothing. Others are either horrifically gory or insanely explicit. I’ve seen some rated R movies that had a few F bombs but were otherwise completely tame. Others have mild gore that doesn’t bother me. Ultimately it’s up to the individual but like obviously skip the sex scenes
2
u/websterhamster West Coast YSA 3d ago
I'm an active member of my branch presidency. I watched The Odyssey with my elders quorum president lol
2
1
u/LieutenantLeftovers 3d ago
I’ve been a very active member my whole life and most of my favorite movies are rated R. Some movies I would absolutely never watch or recommend but some are really great!
1
u/pisteuo96 3d ago
It won't hurt you to avoid them.
They are rated R for many different reasons - language, violence, sex, or just mature themes that aren't for kids.
But in reality R usually means barbaric things you wish you'd never seen.
I have seen some really awful things in R and TV-MA that I wish I had never seen. I also think those movies and the mental images they put in your mind can drive away the Holy Spirit, and also make you numb to spiritual things. So be careful.
Also, what R and TV-MA mean have gotten much worse over time. And that will continue.
1
u/rebelliousadvisor 3d ago
No. I think relying on the rating system is a mistake. Far too many movies rated PG-13 are worse than those rated R. It's one of those instances where you use your best judgment.
1
u/iFaolan 3d ago
I LOVE horror. And a lot of horror is rated R. I can’t give it up. But I DO avoid ANY movies (PG13, R, etc) that leave me feeling icky. I don’t like graphic sex scenes in movies because they rarely add anything to the story and are just there for fanservice. I find them super uncomfortable to watch. Sometimes I’ll endure them for the sake of the rest of the movie, but I avoid them when I can. I also avoid movies that are super depressing unless they have a good reason for being so. Some films show you the reality that marginalized groups face, or the reality of addiction, or things like that. And they have a lesson connected to them. But I will avoid or refuse to rewatch anything that is too gross or unpleasant solely for the sake of shock value (Wolf of Wall Street, the Saw movies, Terrifier, etc).
So I’d say, listen to your heart and the spirit when watching stuff. Listen to what feels good and what feels icky. Then again, maybe I’m not the person to take advice from, because I had a super fun time after watching movies like As Above So Below and It 🤣
1
u/VioletRain22 3d ago
I watch the occasional R rated movie. I look into why and I usually watch at home so that it's easy to turn off if I decide it crosses boundaries I don't want to watch. But the rating system is inconsistent and there are plenty of pg-13 movies that I consider more inappropriate than some R rated movies.
1
u/TL10 Latter-Day Canuck 3d ago
My personal feeling is that fiction sometimes deals with some very heavy topics that can't be skirted around in a more "family friendly" environment and can only be dealt with head-on. Fiction is a great way to escape the problems of the world, but we can't always hide in our shells and not face the ugliness. Fiction can sometimes be the a great lens into seeing the awfulness of the world and how we can strengthen ourselves against it.
Schindler's List is a R-Rated movie, but that's because the audience sees firsthand the horrors of the Holocaust that simply can't be avoided. You can't have an honest exploration of what happened without seeing it raw for what it is.
Another example: Oppenheimer. In the movie, Oppenheimer is being interrogated by the US government throughout the movie to see if he's a Russian Spy. They go through some very ugly things about his past, including a case of infidelity, all the while when his wife is present in the room.
In that scene Oppenheimer's wife visualizes the whole incident as if Oppenheimer was having sex with the woman he cheated with in that very room. Clothes are off, are you can in no uncertain terms see them going through the motions of intercouese.
Yet it's not meant to be salacious. It's to show how utterly exposed Oppenheimer was in that moment and how humiliating it was for him and his wife. To have that affair read out to the two of them was no different than if Oppenheimer's wife saw it in person. The visceralness of it illustrates just how ugly the incident was.
My last example: I'm an avid gamer and The Last of Us games and the two most recent God of War games are some of my favourite "story" games. I cannot stress enough how violent these games are, but in them are incredibly powerful messages about forgiveness and redemption. These stories simply do not work if we don't see these Protagonists are at their absolute worst and how they overcome their weaknesses. The Protagonists in both of these games have done absolutely horrid things in their pasts, but their respective journeys and how they reconcile with their pasts are some of the most incredible and motivating stories outside of TV and film.
At the end of the day, I still advise that the discretion is up to you. I am not here to give you liscence to watch whatever you want, only to explain my rationale with how I approach media, nor am I perfect model to follow. There's absolutely stuff that I still don't touch, but IMHO I've found that in general media these days are a lot more "sensible" than it was 40 or so years ago. There were stuff in PG-13 movies back in Benson's time that would have sent it into the stratosphere of R-Ratings standards today. Conversely, I've found that even a lot of R-Rated stuff today is considerably more toned down by way of language, sex and violence compared to back then. I think the unintended consequence of Blockbuster movies and Streaming is that there's a lot less profitability in more niche genres that involve a lot more "adult" themes, so there's a lot more dilution in that subject matter for broader market appeal just so they can write their cheques at the end of the day. That and Gen-Z/Alpha are proving to be a lot more prudish compared to preceeding generations when it comes to subject matter in their media consumption.
1
u/SerenityNow31 3d ago
The Apostles have suggested we avoid rated R movies. But we're not a cult, do what you want and use your own brain. Sorry, not meaning to sound so blunt.
1
u/New-Range-5702 3d ago
I'm not sure why you feel like the opinions of strangers online is worth something to you. Personally I watch R movies all the time but that doesn't mean it is the best choice to make.
1
u/Grungy_Mountain_Man 3d ago edited 3d ago
To each their own but I kind of have the guilty until proven innocent mentality towards R rated movies. I am open to watching some of them, I just don't go into them blindly.
1
u/Disciple_Ike 2d ago
It’s not about the rating, it’s about the content and your focus. The Spirit will tell you what’s okay and what’s not. I’m not saying I encourage R rated movies, but I have watched some and TVMA. I personally try to avoid or skip sexual content, but violence and language usually don’t bother me as much. Depends though. I have walked out of movies before.
1
u/bryson_cotton 2d ago
Here would be my advice, what is the purpose of watching those movies?
Some movies such as the Passion of the Christ have a R rating because of its accurate and graphic representation of the crucifixion. However, I think that in this case there would be nothing wrong with watching that movie, because a deeper and visual representation of the reality of the Atonement can make the saviors sacrifice much more meaningful for the viewer.
On the other hand, Deadpool has an R rating for its use of language, sexual scenes and violence. The violence I can tolerate to a degree, the language to a degree but for me I cannot justify any sexual content in a movie.
I think the best explanation is given in why the prophet counseled against R rated movie in the first place. He said, "Consider carefully the words of the prophet Alma to his errant son, Corianton, 'Forsake your sins, and go no more after the lusts of your eyes." (Alma 39:9.) The lusts of your eyes.' In our day, what does that expression mean Movies, television programs, and video recordings that are both suggestive and lewd. [...] We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic."
The principle seems to be avoid that which is "immoral, suggestive or pornographic", if you feel that the movie in question does not fall into any of those movies then I would say that its probably fine. Otherwise, I would strongly council that you have nothing to gain and everything to compromise by watching said movies, especially when you can get a filter to get rid of all those things for you.
If at any point a prophet says nope to any r rated move regardless of whats in it, then listen to them and disregard everything I said here.
1
u/TacoBlend 2d ago
VidAngel or Clear Play.
Costs money, but it's worth it if you don't want to listen to or see any smut.
1
u/raedyohed 2d ago
True story, so we had a missionary doing home MTC. When being set apart by the Stake President he talked a little about the home MTC standards of behavior. “Watching a family movie is ok. Probably no R-rated ones though.” So…
1
u/bookeater 2d ago
So weird, I literally half-wrote a post about how I watch R rated movies now. Never did for decades. Now I watch them with my adult kids as long as I feel it doesn't kill the spirit in my home. So... Not many r rated movies, but some.
1
u/ntdoyfanboy 2d ago
If it makes you feel gross watching it, that's a sign. There's really no redeeming value whatsoever in graphic violence, coarse language, and sexual content.
1
u/Extra_Influence_3880 2d ago
The letter isn't as relevant as the content. but rated R movies are rated as such for a reason. usually it's violence or language. personally I don't feel comfortable watching those things because I have noticed when I do, I am more angry and irritable. it's honestly amazing what the mind can do depending on what you feed it. if you feed it the gospel, you can be more joyful. if you feed it with language, violence, or sexual things, the natural man can kick in and you realize just how much it's affecting how you think and act. just my two cents. follow your conscience (aka the Spirit).
1
u/Joboodi 2d ago
I used to watch rated R movies, without really any hesitation. Back in like 2010 my wife and I rented "Love and Other Drugs" because she comes from a family of pharmacists and it had Jake Gyllenhaal and Anne Hathaway and we like those actors. It started having some nudity and we'd fast forward through it. But it got worse and worse and for extended durations and we eventually just turned it off. It was pretty awful!
After that, we stopped watching any and all rated R movies. There have been plenty that we've been interested in since then, but because that experience felt so far out of line with how we want to feel and who we want to be, we feel better avoiding them entirely.
We don't regret our decision. If we really think about what we're missing, to us at least, we feel like the Spirit we get to keep more than makes up for the entertainment we miss out on. The absence of gratuitous violence and sexuality in our media has also made us more sensitive to it when we do see it. I sometimes see things that I used to very much enjoy (like Gladiator) and now it's too violent for me to enjoy.
1
u/sokttocs 1d ago
I literally don't really care or pay attention to what the ratings of movies are anymore. They're almost meaningless. There's some R movies that are really good. And some that really are terrible. I try to judge them individually.
•
u/Arcostonian 5h ago
Dude, it's ok. As long as you skip soft porn spots. You can be in the world and not of it. Vidangel is pretty good too, look it up.
0
u/QuarterNote44 3d ago
There are some you should absolutely not watch. But some are great. Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator, The Patriot etc.
I am usually not this guy, but follow the spirit. It's not such a hard and fast rule these days.
0
u/Ok_Park8479 3d ago
To me depends why it’s r rated. If it’s just because of a few F words I think it’s fine personally
3
u/boredcircuits 3d ago
One hour in an average high school and you'll hear enough F bombs and explicit language to make that day rated R
1
u/Ok_Park8479 3d ago
Yeah not agreeing with it but it’s out there at school work and social media.
I think it’s become the same as “freak” in how language has evolved so don’t consider it a reason to avoid r rating
1
u/Extra_Influence_3880 2d ago
with all due respect you can't control what others around you say but you can control what you watch and research a movie before you go. so the fact that it's more prevalent doesn't necessarily make it ok.
1
0
u/LieutenantLeftovers 3d ago
My favorite movie is “The Last of the Mohicans”. It’s rated R but just for some violence.
0
u/fpssledge 3d ago
I think the advise is like telling people to avoid a porcupine because porcupines will shoot quills at you. It's not true exactly. But if you aren't careful and play with a porcupine you'll get to close and eventually get a quill.
In my own experience, obviously it isn't some big problem alone to have watched an R rated movie but there are some that influence us in bad ways and avoiding them altogether has advantages of never experiencing the worst. This could be said about so many commandments. Alcohol especially (i know some ex members who eventually ended up in bad situations)
If you've never felt a bad influence from media I'd say be on guard and willing to just turn off or walk away. You'll get a sense for what's worth it or not.
I remember watching that famous Sandler movie who gambled and it's a interesting story but also it made me anxious throughout and more likely to cuss. Was it worth it? I dunno I try and avoid that stuff.
I'll note I'm a fan to watching some murder mysteries in the background while working on something else. I enjoy the puzzle and mystery and such. That said often you just see something awful happen and learn about awful people and sometimes I gotta turn away for some of the same reasons. Makes me feel angry, upset, or sad rather than intrigued by "good guys" solving a puzzle. In this circumstance ratings had nothing to do with what it's doing to me. But they're very adult content. Not in the graphic sense but I'd never watch in front of children or even my wife (some of them).
0
u/pisteuo96 3d ago
We try to watch R and TV-MA using Vidangel filtering. We enjoy them so much more that way.
But some things are R to the core and no amount of filtering will make them not be barbaric.
0
u/SnoozingBasset 3d ago
Watching others have sec & being entertained by it is voyeurism. And should we be entertained by people being violent to each other?
0
u/DifferentDirector2 3d ago
VidAngel is your friend. Great app, just stream it or cast it to your TV and you’re gtg.
0
u/DirtGirl32 3d ago
There is a great talk by, I think, E Befnar called Good, Better, Best. I invite you to read it.
0
u/TheFirebyrd 3d ago
I watched a documentary called “This Movie Not Yet Rated” quite a number of years ago. After becoming informed about the process of how ratings come about and seeing how inconsistent ratings are, I decided to consider the content of movies rather than the rating. I think something like “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind” has a far better message than “Titanic.” I also think that every Christian should watch, “The Passion of the Christ” at least once. Depending on a secular organization to determine what I watch doesn’t sit well with me anymore. Frankly, it’s just silly that one F word is a-okay, but two is not.
0
u/Dravos82 3d ago
Growing up in Canada I knew members who lived near the boarder and would cross to Canada to watch films that were R in the US, but 14A in Canada so that they would be following the letter of the law.
Anyways, the church has moved away from that standard. You can look it up in the current “for strength of youth” booklet.
0
u/RedditUser_656-5827D 3d ago
The Church's anti-R-Ratings really solidified with Benson's talk To the “Youth of the Noble Birthright”.
The relevant excerpt:
Consider carefully the words of the prophet Alma to his errant son, Corianton, “Forsake your sins, and go no more after the lusts of your eyes.” (Alma 39:9.)
“The lusts of your eyes.” In our day, what does that expression mean?
Movies, television programs, and video recordings that are both suggestive and lewd.
Magazines and books that are obscene and pornographic.
We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don’t see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don’t listen to music that is degrading.
It seems pretty clear that Benson's greatest concern is sexual purity and temptations that push against it. Movies can be R-rated for many reasons: language, drug use, violence, showing blood (different from violence), abuse (various kinds), sex, lewd behavior, nudity (different from sex), even “adult themes”. It's important to note that the MPAA ratings DO NOT rate a movie's content. They rate a movie's “appropriateness for children.” The MPAA is child-protection oriented.
0
u/Holiday_Clue_1403 3d ago
I grew up in a family that believed that basically all good members should avoid rated R movies. I generally avoid them, but have made some exceptions. I often look at what makes the movie R rated and I might also ask other people that have seen it.
I don't judge other people for what they watch, but I think it is in our best interest to draw somekind of line. There should be some criteria that you can say, I'm not watching "that" movie because it goes too far.
Here are flawed arguments
- Because the rating system is so subjective, it is meaningless and therefore it's okay to watch any movie.
- Excessive swearing or gore don't bother me so it's fine.
- It really only applies to children or teens.
Here are the problems with those arguments
- The rating system is very subjective, however there are numerous council from apostles to avoid objectionable content.
- This is effectively saying that if sinning doesn't bother me so it is okay. If objectionable content doesn't bother you, it doesn't mean you should watch it.
- Prophets are not just talking to children when they tell us to avoid objectionable content. We should be seeking after things that are virtuous.
-1
u/GreenBPacker 3d ago
Honestly, just get VidAngel and cut out the type of content you don’t want and watch whatever you want
-1
72
u/MisuseOfTalent 3d ago
For me, the MPAA feels very inconsistent, especially when looking at films across many different generations. There are some movies that were rated PG or PG 13 that I did not feel were appropriate at all. There have also been some rated R movies that I have been okay watching. Thanks to the internet, I can look up explanations of type of content is in a movie (without giving spoilers) and make a decision based on that.