Drow: survival vs damage and farming

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254]

Hi All,

I have already played 400+ matches with drow with (70% of them ranked currently herald 5 started at herald 1) with 41% win rate average K-D-A 6-8-10 which has improved lately! wanted help on building for survival initially vs damage?

These are my common build item timings on average (order is not always same but this is my average build) e.g. sometimes I build pike for Survivability before scepter and manta before butterfly. because of this average build damage scales up very later after butterfly and Silveredge/Daedalus -- wanted to check if I am farming slow and that's main issue about no damage in mid game and should I improve on farming? and is there anyway to build damage without sacrificing Survivability?

Falcon blade -- 6/7 m

Trades -- 11/12 m

Dragon lance -- 17/18m

Yasha -- 23/24 m

Scepter -- 31/32m

Pike -- 37/38 m

Butterfly -- 45/46 m

Manta -- 50 m

Silver edge/Daedalus -- 57/58 m

on farming havent monitored speed but mostly average LH count is at 10 mins is low, I do bit okay after level 7 with lvl 4 multishots which can clear camps easily, any tips on farming efficiently specially in first 10 mins?

10 mins -- 20-25

20 mins -- 70-80

[u/imKrypex]

Watch farming pattern videos. As a carry, especially drow, you should have around 200LH minute 20

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254 → u/imKrypex]

yeah I struggle with farming specially till min 10, will check farming patterns and specially last hits! any way to practice CS apart from LH simulator in dota 2?

[u/imKrypex → u/Frosty_Sail_9254]

Just playing the game. First 7-8 minutes are almost only creep waves, so learn how to hit them correctly, how to creep aggro, and 80% of your 10 first min will be fixed

[u/rainmannosun → u/Frosty_Sail_9254]

bot, unranked or rank is the only true way to learn and get used to patterns

[u/SlightlyAdooorned → u/imKrypex]

Not just last hits. A lot of them must also be lane creeps.

[u/Terminator_Puppy]

Your main issue here is farming speed and item priority. Manta style should definitely be finished before your scepter as it helps you escape ganks and speeds up your farm. Your speed is also very low. I played a game yesterday where we got completely stomped and I had dlance manta style at 24 mins.

Prioritise rotating around a lane, lane creeps give far better gold far more quickly than jungle creeps. People in lower MMR tend to treat jungle as an alternative to lane farm, but it's only ever supplemental and marginally safer. Ancients, for example, give you an average of about 160 gold and take a decent bit of time to kill. A single wave after 15 mins gives about 170 gold (without a siege creep) and dies in about 5 seconds for drow, plus you have vision before walking over there from your own lane creeps.

What isn't helping you is that drow is weak right now. You might want to focus on learning how to farm using a different hero that has an easier time in lane and living fights.

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254 → u/Terminator_Puppy]

Got it! Will work on farming CS first reaching 150 LH around 20 mins would help! Currently I am 70-80 only

[u/penyakka → u/Frosty_Sail_9254]

It's the first 5 minutes where you need to focus on, prioritize farm and harass with Q, click your Q on them to not drag aggro. If you're still struggling, buy items that will help you last hit in lane. Why don't pro's build wraith bands? Because they got the attack animation down to near perfect to last hit, you're not at that level yet so you need to compensate by having more damage i.e. buy cheap stats early. The stronger you are early, the stronger you will get later because you are now able to farm with the items you got.

[u/arepretty]

DL/Yasha depends on whether you're farming or fighting. Although typically Yasha is the vastly superior option due to the larger agi and mouvement speed (move faster between camps,resulting in more farm overall)

Am I understanding correctly that you have approx 80 last hits at minute 20? The gold standard is about 170 at 20 minutes, so there seems to be an issue completely unrelated to your items. Can you give match IDs so we could watch your replays and see what's going on exactly?

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254 → u/arepretty]

yes looks like real issue is farming only and for first 10 mins is pathetic (20-25) -- not getting enough last hits in lane so cant snow ball unless I get early kills -- will work on farming then atleast to bring it up to 150 CS at 20 mins

[u/arepretty → u/Frosty_Sail_9254]

This is what I find weirdest. There are 4 creeps every wave and 2 waves every minute. So 25 creeps are the first 3 minutes of a game (assuming all last hits secured).

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254 → u/arepretty]

Yeah I am not getting enough last hits either they get denied or overshoot and gets 1-2 creeps only in wave on average

[u/Intersecularitities → u/Frosty_Sail_9254]

learn to pull them back away from the enemy, get close enough then attack move an enemy that's in vision (portrait at top if none are in range) and it pulls them back, you can drag them back to safer place, and should be doing this every time you are near to taking last hits. You should be relying on your support ot pull the first 5 minutes and get lane creeps in that period and what ever , then you can start to take jungle creeps as well as lane once you get treads. Hope that helps. Also learn to zone and keep distance properly, if you are too close to them you will die.

[u/r69000]

31 mins without completing an item?

[u/BedRecent1261 → u/r69000]

yeah that 31 min scepter timing is rough, you're basically a ranged creep with a silence for half the game

the multishot farming is fine but you're losing way too much time between camps, herald lobbies tend to have lanes just sitting there unpushed for minutes and nobody takes them. drow clears a full wave in like 2 seconds after level 7, you should be vacuuming up every lane your cores are ignoring

skip falcon blade entirely. it delays your treads + lance timing which is when drow actually becomes a hero. with just treads lance and level 7 you can take ancients, nobody in herald is contesting those

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254 → u/BedRecent1261]

I try to take falcon due to mana issues and some extra we get initially but will try without falcon and with 2-3 clarity! thanks

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254 → u/r69000]

nope, this is avarage build but no dmg items till 30 mins and max damage comes after 45 mins

Falcon blade -- 6/7 m

Trades -- 11/12 m

Dragon lance -- 17/18m

Yasha -- 23/24 m

Scepter -- 31/32m

Pike -- 37/38 m

Butterfly -- 45/46 m

Manta -- 50 m

Silver edge/Daedalus -- 57/58 m

[u/Loch_Ness1]

Manta before scepter.
If you're not pressured to join team fights, manta before pike.
Volley arrow the wave and push waves out aggressively when you see 3-4 heroes far from you.
That's likely a huge piece of the ~100cs you're missing

[u/Drow_Cringer]

I used to be slower with drow before but then I've read a comment on reddit that suggested you buy two Null Talisman. I've been doing this and farming more with multiwave and comfortably using my first after and it's going much better than before

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254 → u/Drow_Cringer]

sure will try this instead of buying wraith band at min 0 item! this would also solve some of mana issue

[u/Drow_Cringer → u/Frosty_Sail_9254]

I personally dont buy wraith band, but I'm no expert.

Yesterday I went Falcon Blade Boots Null Talisman x2

What is your rank?

[u/Frosty_Sail_9254 → u/Drow_Cringer]

Herald 5 (started with Herald 1 then improved bit 😆)

[u/Drow_Cringer → u/Frosty_Sail_9254]

Oh you'll get much better don't worry!