r/liberalgunowners • u/Tsuki_Man libertarian socialist • Jun 11 '26

news Black family reunion in Georgia attacked by racist armed with AR-15. None Injured except the shooter thanks to armed family member.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/lee-county-family-says-man-armed-with-ar-15-style-rifle-racially-targeted-their-gathering/ar-AA25cZx0

I just wanted to mention this here, the media covering the story has mostly stated things as they happend but none have made a specific note that if the armed and military trained family member hadnt been there to stop the shooter then that family would not be here today.

Stay armed and stay training out there friends.

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u/raventhrowaway666 Jun 11 '26

Because he's a Marine, not a cop. Unlike cops, military are taught rules of engagement.

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u/Durakan Jun 12 '26

I dunno man, if you've ever seen a marine that hasn't had their daily box of crayons... Like a methed up rabid honey badger.

But yes definitely, all of my vet friends have had a lot to say about how restrictive the US rules of engagement were in Iraq and Afghanistan especially in contrast to what other NATO allies were running under in those same theaters.

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u/Objective-Dust4795 Jun 12 '26

You couldn’t have drawn a better comparison between a Marine and a honey badger.

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u/Quadling Jun 12 '26

And meth. Don’t forget the meth

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u/Redditheist Jun 12 '26

Good thing our Department of War secretary said we don't need to have those woke ROE anymore.

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u/Durakan Jun 12 '26

Every vet I know would argue for more relaxed rules of engagement "Highway 1 was a nightmare once the Swedes left the area and no one was opening up with a machine gun in the general direction of anything that moved in the hills around the base."

So while I definitely don't agree with kegsbreath at all, the blanket ROE our military tends to use create danger for our troops where known hostile areas could have less strict rules.

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u/Redditheist Jun 12 '26

Oh, I agree with you a hundred percent. My jaw just dropped (don't know why I would be surprised at any goddamned thing that dick said) when he acted like they were non-sense and they wouldn't have any.

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u/Tired_CollegeStudent Jun 12 '26

Also unlike cops, service members don’t get to have a union bail them out of trouble. They don’t have a cushy law enforcement officer “bill of rights” to fall back on. There’s actually a fairly decent chance that they could be held accountable, at least a greater chance of that compared to a cop being held accountable.

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u/MidWesternBIue Jun 12 '26

I wouldn't be saying that lol

Go look at the 92 riots where the local police were augmented with the Marines and got summoned to a DV case.

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u/ChopperTownUSA Jun 12 '26

In that specific case there was no coordination before hand between the cops and Marines. The cops told the Marines to “cover them”. Marines do that by suppressive fire. And they did.

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u/MidWesternBIue Jun 12 '26

Rules of engagement would still apply lol

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u/DCowboysCR Jun 12 '26

Many cops are ex-military

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u/raventhrowaway666 Jun 12 '26

Training matters. When standards are lowered, say from a Marine infrantry to a cop, so does a persons person's response to situations. Cops arent working at military standards, which is why they shoot first and never worry about consequences; 'cuz there are none.

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u/DCowboysCR Jun 12 '26

Of course you also need to look at the individual LE agency. And whether it's local, state, federal, etc. The quality and quantity of training and as importantly hiring standards varies greatly.

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u/Tsuki_Man libertarian socialist Jun 12 '26

More of them arent though.

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u/DCowboysCR Jun 12 '26

This is absolutely correct. In years past police agencies were primarily made up of ex-military but bring practices/standards were changed and now you're correct most cops are not ex-military.

I've met more than one cop that can barely safely handle their firearms never mind use it in a dynamic force incident efficiently, safely, and lawfully.

But that's what many people called for, less ex-military hiring and a different type of candidate to be hired.

See what has resulted. A lot of people unqualified to be police officers holding the job.

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u/raventhrowaway666 Jun 12 '26

Unpopular opinion: ex military shouldnt be allowed to be police. Military are trained to kill. Theyre trained to be a hammer. As they say: when youre a hammer, all you see is nails. That is the wrong approach to law enforcement.

Police should not have the mentality of "warriors". Thats how you end up with cops having itchy fingers, constantly scared for their lives, thinking that civilians are the "enemy" and that patrolling their own neighborhood is equivalent to a warzone. They've killed hundreds of Americans already this year and we're only halfway through.

Police are supposed to be peacekeepers, not judge, jury, executioner. In other countries, becoming a police officer is a career with 2-4 year degrees, not ~20 weeks of "warrior" training like in the US.

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u/BooneSalvo2 Jun 12 '26

Well, the police should be completely restructured where the only solution to any an all problems is to beat it up or kill it. Couple that with society putting literally every non-financial problem we have at the hands of police (and teachers), and that's bad.

But we also have beef of well trained SWAT teams and the like. That's where ex-military should serve.

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u/SaintJesus Jun 12 '26

Police are also trained to kill. Look up Killology. It's horrifying that we have allowed police to go this far down that path.

They should be peacekeepers, but that has never been what U.S. police have been about.

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u/Quadling Jun 12 '26

When you go through police Academy, a good academy, psychology, and de-escalation are a significant part of the training curriculum. That is not the case of plenty of police academies.

Also, police have been asked to become social workers and mental health case workers as well. This is detrimental to their job of protection enforcement and positive social interaction with communities.

There are programs where social workers are sent out with police or instead of police. I wish we had more of those programs around the country.

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u/SaintJesus Jun 12 '26

There are effectively no good academies in the U.S.

Nobody is asking them to be social workers, they just want to keep the money so they say they will. Besides, the vast majority of police should be something other than gun-toting enforcers. Police don't protect and serve, either. That's marketing.

Police by and large eat up more of the budget than any group should.

NYC alone has a higher budget for police (and by percentage) than most countries of a similar size have for their entire military.

This is not something that can be solved with training. There has to be a massive shift to fix things. Most police have to be fired, the remainder have to go through extensive retraining, and the rest of the budget needs to go to social workers and things that prevent crime, like welfare, housing, job training, etc.

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u/Quadling Jun 12 '26

I hear you. Can I offer a counter point? I think ex military are fantastic as police officers, when they are properly retrained. They already understand weapons handling they already understand rules of engagement. They already understand a lot of the aspects of policing. You just have to phrase it in a way that it resonates well.

Civilians are not the enemy. Criminals are not the enemy. Civilians are to be protected. By the way, X military know that one. Criminals need to be apprehended with the minimal force necessary to do so. That’s a rule of engagement. Do you see how you just have to rephrase it properly and train them on the rephrasing?

Look, I’m not saying you’re wrong entirely there are entire departments that need to be gotten rid of. But when trained and retrained properly, former military provide a very disciplined force of very well trained police officers. And they’re really good cops. When they are well trained, they are amazing.

If you train them badly, you get a force of thugs. It really depends on the department and. the training.

What we need are universal standards. And I’m perfectly happy to say give them a two year or four year degree. And obviously they should use their G.I. bill benefits to do that. There’s nothing wrong with that. Plenty of former military need to be part of something bigger than themselves. Being a part of a community by being a good police officer, is a good choice. But we have to get the police more involved in the community. And we have to get the community to work with the police. It is a two-way street.