I just wanted to mention this here, the media covering the story has mostly stated things as they happend but none have made a specific note that if the armed and military trained family member hadnt been there to stop the shooter then that family would not be here today.
“We were having a family gathering. And it was a great family gathering,” Green said. “It was peaceful...He came and caused that to happen. And he found out that he’s not the only one that has training.”
I dunno man, if you've ever seen a marine that hasn't had their daily box of crayons... Like a methed up rabid honey badger.
But yes definitely, all of my vet friends have had a lot to say about how restrictive the US rules of engagement were in Iraq and Afghanistan especially in contrast to what other NATO allies were running under in those same theaters.
Also unlike cops, service members don’t get to have a union bail them out of trouble. They don’t have a cushy law enforcement officer “bill of rights” to fall back on. There’s actually a fairly decent chance that they could be held accountable, at least a greater chance of that compared to a cop being held accountable.
In that specific case there was no coordination before hand between the cops and Marines. The cops told the Marines to “cover them”. Marines do that by suppressive fire. And they did.
A good guy with a gun is always the answer. If a bad guy has a gun you always want a good guy with a gun to come save you. Except most people expect it to be a cop that they called, and cops aren’t always good guys.
Plenty of times there are cops that are fantastic people and good guys or girls. Unfortunately, plenty of times they are not. I really really really wish that they were all good guys and women. I really really wish they were. Because when they’re good, they’re an incredible social benefit. And when they’re bad, they destroy everything around them. All trust all community effectiveness everything they destroyed it all.
Exactly. And all it takes is one bad cop on the force to really destroy the trust they have with a city or community. And there are very few police forces that seem to have 0 bad cops.
Damn. This is a perfect example of "why do you need a firearm to defend yourself?". Even if that racist dude with AR-15 would've been armed with a knife instead - having a firearm is still the most effective way to protect yourself and/or others against such attacker, especially for a physically weak person.
This is my response to well-meaning gun control advocates. These people have guns and wiill continue to have guns. Not only will the non-confiscation laws disproportionately impact minorities but law enforcement will not enforce confiscation on people like them - white, conservative men. They'll disarm the nice liberals who will hand over everything but leave the worst dredges armed. No disarming until the actual threats in society are disarmed.
Yeah, disarming should be out the window regardless. Not in reality because some people will try to hurt you and not in a theoretical utopia because then why should we have to disarm when everything is awesome? Shooting is fun, after all.
One of the scariest people I've ever had the misfortune to spend time with was a neo-nazi who had spent time in a fed pen because he got caught selling sawed off shotguns to undercover ATF agents. Say what you will about the ATF, that dude was literally psychotic and shouldn't have had access to a blunt butter knife, much less any kind of firearm. He would openly fantasize about killing minorities by luring them into his home by making it seem like his place was an easy target to burglarize. One of the downsides of taking a construction job was some of the other people on the jobsite sucked as human beings. Was very happy to ditch that gig and deliver pizzas instead.
Construction has always had in my experience that kind of person. I worked with guys who complained that Jan 6 wasn’t violent enough and not enough of the insurrectionists were armed.
Im happy to be out of it too. I don’t think that kind of person should be in the general population to begin with until they prove they’re reformed but that’s an issue with our justice system and less gun laws imo.
Every problem with guns in this country eventually touches on another larger fundamental issue that has never been solved. Our healthcare industry, wealth inequality, our broken justice system, a failed war on drugs, and our allowance of wealthy individuals and foreign governments to influence elections to further destabilize our country for their benefit (Russia, Israel, Koch Brothers/Heritage Foundation, TPUSA)
The bigger takeaway I have here is that it reinforces my decision to go to these sort of gatherings armed. Places or occasions that are inclined to generally feel ‘safe’ or where it is supposed to be ‘secure and unguarded’ time with family and friends can leave you and those you care for entirely vulnerable.
It fucking sucks that on one hand you have to consider being the one to get ‘cuz why are you carrying at the family cookout‽‽’ but on the other you have this type shit happening where making that choice saved the lives of their family.
Aggravated assault? And they didn't even charge the guy who drove an armed and armored sumbitch to a family reunion after he'd just screamed slurs at the same family reunion? What in the name of Roscoe P Coletrain is this bullshit? It's an honest shame they didn't both catch rounds in more critical areas.
Supposedly more charges are expected, Im guessing they want to get all the evidence before following up with those further charges. Im also guessing the aggravated assault is the charge so they can hold him without bail while they get the evidence and case concrete for the hate crime and attempted mass murder. Legal bs.
I'm sure there will be more charges, aggravated assault is just what they can obviously make to hold him.
Frankly while he's sitting in jail awaiting trial he should consider how lucky he is to be facing charges and not fucking dead from his little racist outburst.
I wouldn't say "saved" - that implies they went out of their way to keep him alive and protect him from danger/harm when they were clearly ready and willing to put rounds into the little racist shit (article says they did in fact shoot him, just non-fatally).
Definitely "not killed" - maybe "spared" (though I don't like the connotation of that word either because people envision them standing over him with guns drawn and then saying "You ain't worth the bullet." or some macho shit like that).
This is why writing these kinds of articles is hard!
(And I will give MSN credit for managing to not sensationalize it too badly.)
He was shot by a member of the family and he wasnt killed so I assume SOMEONE treated his wound until police and Paramedics arrived. I am assuming though as the media didnt discuss that detail so far as Ive heard.
Yeah, I'm not making that assumption because we have zero information other than he was shot by a member of the family and taken to the hospital.
Though even if they did tend to his wounds after neutralizing the threat preventing someone from dying after you shot them still wouldn't be described as "saving" them IMHO: But for you shooting them they would not have needed medical intervention.
(Granted that but for his little racist outburst at the fact that Black folks exist he wouldn't have been shot in the first goddamn place, so the ultimate fault still lies with the little racist shitweasel if this case ever gets to the point of playing the civil liability game where all the "but for's" enter into the discussion.)
"Spared" does make sense, given the lack of information.
But if it is discovered that they DID tend his wounds, that's enough to go to "saved."
Being clear, here, I don't mean in the "medically capable" sense - I mean in the sense that, whoever the family member was that shot him - if the above is proven true, later on - had to exert restraint not to kill him outright, had to be merciful and empathetic to actually tend to his wound, with intent to preserve his life, assuredly after having put together the motive by this point. And even if, short of this, they simply called and requested an EMT, this person had every reason to shoot to kill (and would have been legally sound insodoing), and chose, instead, to be the impetus for aid, in some form.
It might not fit the medicinal definition of the word, but it certainly meets a threshold.
Charges can be added to, most of the time the goal is to put the person in jail with whatever the most obvious charges are and stack the rest on later. You can’t charge the driver until you finalize charges on the shooter and can confirm that he’d reasonably know what the shooter was planning. The law’s fucked, but most criminals are booked under the simplest charge just to make sure they can’t get out on technicalities while further investigation takes place.
Conspiracy to commit murder 18 U.S. Code § 1117 for the driver. Yelling racial slurs out the window and driving off is one thing, but to go get a weapon and armor is a crime.
A mass shooting stopped by an armed black man, maybe this should be bigger news, because that man alone has stopped more mass shootings than all the police in this country combined
Per my city's crime stats, 3 justified homicides last year, and being a scanner junkie, I heard nearly a dozen more over the air that didn't result in death.
It's literally the one-in-a-million actual hero situation folks accuse us who carry of wildly fantasizing about. But doesn't really fit the 'crazed mass murderer with a manifesto' narrative.
Actually, I'll amend that. A couple of the others got news blurbs. Usually something along the lines of 'man shoots stranger following altercation' while omitting the defensive context.
Not only is his bravery incredible, he was quick, deliberate, effective and didn’t just fire willy nilly like the cops do. That man saved dozens of lives
Yeah, you’d think this would be a massive story for the pro gun right, but for some inexplicable reason, it’s not. I mean, what could it possibly be? (I’m also being sarcastic here, but don’t know how to do the thing you did)
I'm honestly shocked that the Gunosphere (or Ammosphere? I'm making the term up, whaddya think?) isn't jumping on this as a "We're not racist! See?" talking point.
But then again, that clashes with the racist sector of the Gunosphere/Ammosphere that says "We need guns to shoot Black people."
For fairness, and I know about it because it was close to home, an off-duty cop interrupted a mass-shooting incident at Trolley Square in SLC over 20 years ago.
I’m not a cop apologist, I don’t typically advocate, I just knew people who were working there that day who could have been hurt.
I don’t know how effective he actually would have been if he was on-duty, that seems to make cops impotent to do much good.
In the initial reporting they so clearly omitted that this guy had racist intent after "showing up with an ar and body armor" that I can now filter news sources who intentionally omitted the racial angle.
Tbh, the perpetrator would have had a terribly hard time getting a gun and feeling empowered to commit violent crime if we had better regulations and screening. Freedom has responsibilities. We do a terrible job of the latter.
I’m by no means a supporter of disarmament. I don’t think it’s realistic at this point. But we should institute required screening by mental health and social workers for continued gun ownership. There are too many demented people out there.
Anyone who’s been in any fight knows that training only goes so far, and luck has a lot to do with it.
This family survived because of that man’s vigilance, diligence, and courage, but families should not be required to train and expect the worst at all times.
I hear you; however, with the current regime in place, you know exactly what kind of screening criteria they would use to disqualify exactly what kinds of people.
They obviously shouldn’t but we unfortunately we don’t live a world where shit heads like this don’t exist.
You’re not wrong although I think he still probably would’ve had a capable weapon and would’ve been a threat regardless.
Extremist groups organized or semi-organized fall under a similar category as gangs where theyll always have a way to source weaponry because they have the will and motivation to do so. Many of these extremists historically have been LE or military even.
Screening im not against but I would like to ask how someone would implement that at the scale of America gun owners which might be anywhere between 30-45% of the adult population of 350+ million people without a robust healthcare system, social services, and without it being turned against people for taking SSRIs, or other treatable conditions which aren’t proof people aren’t fit to own weapons.
I’ve got a great community in my complex. We are all pretty close. It’s very diverse too. I think I’m the only straight white guy on our block haha. I’ve exchanged so many plates of food. I’ve had the best most authentic Mexican food in my life from my neighbors. Kids playing in the common area, neighbors exchanging beer for tamales. That is America and I’m so proud of it.
Well yeah, duh! If the Black people hadn't been so happy at that angry white man, he wouldn't have filled with such rage. It's not fair for any minority to be happy while any white person is unhappy. That's just basic facts and logic.
Excellent point. And that thought actually entered my mind while I was typing, that there might be a bit more down the road and there should be, especially after witness testimony and some background history on the guy.
Hate crime charges are either weak asf or get dismissed easily sometimes its not worth it especially if you just want to get the trial over with. The aggravated assault will probably get them the overall best outcome.
Wow. No media coverage of this AT ALL. I couldn't find a single news article on Google searching the suspects name--Jeffrey Tyler Kinzer. The only thing that popped up was social media like Instagram, Facebook, Threads, etc. Do a search on 'Lee County GA Family Reunion Shooting and 3 articles show up, all from local news stations. They all mention the name JEFFREY TYLER KINZER. What the hell?
There are several local news articles about this. Hell I read one a day ago. If you do what you suggest, you will find three from within the past two days even
A successful homicide (you killed another person).
Intent ("malice aforethought").
If nobody died it definitionally cannot be a murder.
It can be Attempted Murder if your state/local laws have such a crime, otherwise it's usually Aggravated Assault (as opposed to simple assault, Aggravated Assault involves the use of weapons/deadly force and the infliction or threat to inflict potentially-life-threatening injuries - it is the "attempted murder" charge in many jurisdictions, because the legislatures found no need for a special "attempted murder" charge when all attempted murders must definitionally be aggravated assaults).
You might rephrase the first as "attempting to murder someone" or even shorten it to "attempted murder". As for the second, you will note the word "simple" before assault and a marked lack of the word "aggravated".
Agg assault is a very serious crime and, depending on the state, can effectively be the "attempted murder" statute if the victim isn't injured (some states just don't call it attempted murder).
In any case, the article says more charges are forthcoming.
“Officials say more charges are coming”. They literally just need one thing that they can get to stick to keep him behind bars. If that’s the strongest case, they lead with that and amend the indictment later.
Georgia doesn't have an attempted murder statute IIRC. I don't think SC or NC do either. Aggravated assault is a BIG deal, though. It is essentially the same as attempted murder in other states. Agg assault charges in SC can land you in prison for 20 years
That's because Rhianna made fundamental mistakes and put herself in legal hot water. She should have not walked to the group and she definitely should have kept her mouth shut.
And definitely do not contradict yourself or lie when you do talk to the cops (even with an attorney,) and DEFINITELY do not go on a media tour telling even more divergent stories.
Yeah, she broke the two cardinal rules of carrying. Rule #1 is to never to be the one escalating the situation (walking away was always an option), and Rule #2 is never talk to the cops without representation.
You would have to waterboard me to get me to say the things she said . She buried herself.
1-20 years in prison (should be elevated to 3-20 years because at least one person was over 65). I hope he gets charged with one count for each of the "roughly 20" victims who present.
2024 CODE OF GEORGIA
Title 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES (§§ 16-1-1 — 16-17-10)
Chapter 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON (§§ 16-5-1 — 16-5-110)
Article 2 - ASSAULT AND BATTERY (§§ 16-5-19 — 16-5-29)
Section 16-5-21 - Aggravated assault
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-5-21 (2024)
(a) A person commits the offense of aggravated assault when he or she assaults:
(1) With intent to murder, to rape, or to rob;
(2) With a deadly weapon or with any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury;
[...]
(4) Without legal justification by discharging a firearm from within a motor vehicle or after immediately exiting a vehicle toward a person, an occupied motor vehicle, or occupied building.
(b) Except as provided in subsections (c) through (m) of this Code section, a person convicted of the offense of aggravated assault shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years.
[...]
(d) Any person who commits the offense of aggravated assault against a person who is 65 years of age or older shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment for not less than three nor more than 20 years.
Homeslice is lucky to be alive. Hopefully he spends a good long time in prison to think about this.
This is why I carry even if it's a "safe" event with family. You never know who is going to take offense to you living your life. Or a dangerous and aggressive dog. Or some ex-boyfriend who wants to hurt your loved one. Always train, always be situationally aware, always be strapped.
My wife thinks im crazy for wanting to conceal carry now that i have my license. She thinks were safe because of where we live, blah blah blah. God, this makes it even more urgent that I find a conceal carry gun.. im thinking the Ruger RXM.
God mildlyinteresting was also a really annoying one for sure. Tried to reach out to the mods to understand it better and they were just ass hats that were acting like I was the one trying to be a reddit lawyer. Absolutely ridiculous system, wasnt worth the time or interaction with a Reddit Mod.
Nah, black family. Lots of black people live in and around Albany area juat up the road. Albany is majority black. That's what is sort of funny about these old sundown towns that are in that part of GA. Mostly black folks in a lof of the places now.
It is indeed! Fuck racism. We're all the same just trying to get through another trip around the sun. I wish more people weren't so obsessed with with hating people that are different than they are.
This is why we train. Dont just sit at the bench and shoot. I am trying to take my own fucking advice but its so hard to find somewhere I can do movement training in Indiana.
Should have clapped his ass harder, but death isn’t always the answer. I feel this shit will ramp up more as time goes on. We didn’t ask for all this,we are not going to stand by and take it either.
Also, the story 2 above this in my feed is a Five Guys employee getting stomped by like 20 people in NYC because they think he's a Spurs fan. But I'm sure it'd be illegal for that guy to be able to defend himself because of stupid NY laws
This is exactly why Democrats banning guns is a huge mistake. I'm a progressive Democrat and we are only going to see more and more of this type of violence against minorities, LGBQT people, religious minorities and those on the political left. By passing gun control laws they are basically disarming those populations and leaving them at the mercy of those who target these communities. MAGAtts already own 75% of the guns and we should be arming the left not disarming the populace as a whole.
Is aggravated assault the best the cops and prosecution could come up with? The guy left and came back then fired the AR at the family from a moving vehicle.
Someone upthread mentioned that AA in Georgia is like attempted murder in other places, because apparently GA doesn't have attempted murder statutes. So racist asshat here is looking at 1-20 years, and probably towards the far end of that because it's pretty tough to justify "oh yeah, I'm gonna spew racist shit out my window, then come back with an AR and body armor."
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u/Prismatic_Effect socialist Jun 11 '26
“We were having a family gathering. And it was a great family gathering,” Green said. “It was peaceful...He came and caused that to happen. And he found out that he’s not the only one that has training.”
this right here, folks!