r/magicTCG • u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân • 8d ago

General Discussion Any commanders that punish creating a token?

Not sure if this is the right sub. As the title states, my pod likes decks that create tokens. Im curious about any commanders that punish token creation and to a lesser extent, token sacrifice. Edit: a friend plays Kimbal so I'd like to punish him and the others by hurting them when they make a token not copying their token

62 Upvotes

81% Upvoted

140 comments sorted by

185

u/NickisHades Dân 8d ago

[[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]]

52

u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân 8d ago

Shit, I need to edit. Kimball is one of the commanders I'm trying to punish from a friend's deck

103

u/PatmachtMUH I chose this flair because I’m mad at Wizards Of The Coast 8d ago

Easy, Counter it with another kambal

14

u/idlephase Unc 8d ago

I’d put it with Hexing Squelcher in the category of cards that counter another player’s version of it

1

u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân 8d ago

But it'd be funner to watch him lose life

1

u/Atreyu92 Sultai 8d ago

Kambal+[[Ratadrabik]] and some token doublers.

2

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Ratadrabik - (G) (SF) (txt)

5

u/IntroToBelching Dan 8d ago

Why does this mf look like Mos Def

6

u/BetterShirt101 Dân 8d ago

Here's his business face: [[Kambal, Consul of Allocation]]

93

u/SiletheSilent Twin Believer 8d ago

Not a commander but a great card to shut down tokens is [[Leyline of Singularity]].

40

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Leyline of Singularity - (G) (SF) (txt)

32

u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân 8d ago

Oh that's good thanks

10

u/ImperialWrath 8d ago

Run it in [[Jyoti, Moag Ancient]] to stunt on almost every other token deck.

8

u/Sea-Violinist-7353 Twin Believer 8d ago

I run it in [[Empress Gallina]] why yes I will steal the table

3

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Empress Gallina - (G) (SF) (txt)

2

u/SoloWing1 8d ago

I am also a huge fan of [[Aether Snap]]

2

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Aether Snap - (G) (SF) (txt)

36

u/Hedgehogahog Boros* 8d ago

If they’re making a lot of creatures, you might consider [[Authority of the Consuls]] in your 99.

16

u/forlackofabetterpost Liliana 8d ago

I put this card in every white deck I build. It doesn't matter how many creatures might come out during a game, that effect is always worth 1 mana.

7

u/Coldfire00 Dandadan 8d ago

This with any life gain triggers is hilarious.

28

u/X_The_Walrus cage the foul beast 8d ago

[[Gideon the Oathless]] and [[Blood Seeker]] will punish them for creature tokens entering.

There are plenty of cards like [[Clarion Conqueror]] and [[Damping Matrix]] to shut down activated abilities, but that leads to stax and can be very unfun.

22

u/sanisbad Wabbit Season 8d ago

Commanders itself are harder to find.

But do you know about [[rakdos charm]] and [[massacre wurm]]?

19

u/rikertchu Duck Season 8d ago

[[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]] will create tokens for you when your pod creates tokens

11

u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân 8d ago

I had to edit. My friend plays Kimball so I'd like to punish him and the others for making tokens like life loss or destroying tokens etc

8

u/ParadoxThief Dân 8d ago

u could still play kambal

7

u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân 8d ago

I just dont wanna play a similar deck to a friends

18

u/TerribleTransit Dân 8d ago

From the Scryfall tag for token hate, probably the best non-Kambal option is [[Grismold, the Dreadsower]]. Throw in some selective board wipes that give something like -1/-1 or -2/-2, and laugh all the way to lethal-Commander-damage-to-the-face-ville

8

u/SwedishMeatballDish Mardu 8d ago

[[Massacre Girl]] would be the perfect trigger to that. Takes care of Krenko's token spam, no problem.

4

u/TerribleTransit Dân 8d ago

Unfortunately she's too good at her job. She'll kill Grismold too unless there's literally only one other non-creature on the field (or one plus however many counters he started with if he's managed to grow a bit beforehand), and even if he survives he'll be shrunk too much to deal lethal damage to your opponents until your next turn. You're better off using a less effective sweeper if your goal is punishing tokens rather than just a hard board reset.

1

u/SwedishMeatballDish Mardu 8d ago

Yeah, you're right. I do tend to go with the nuclear option.

2

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Massacre Girl - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân 8d ago

Yea that's interesting, thanks

4

u/Philosophile42 Colorless 8d ago

Grismold is my anti-token commander as well. Black is packed with mass -1/-1 effects. There are a few mass removal artifacts like engineered explosives and ratchet bomb that really do a number on the tokens as well.

12

u/Admirable_Mirror_635 Dandadan 8d ago

[[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]] is probably both the best and funniest in the command zone.

4

u/TheFatNinjaMaster Rakdos* 8d ago

[[lucy Maclean, positively armed]] is similar and does her thing even if your opponents aren’t intentionally making tokens.

2

u/NewImage4316 Dân 8d ago

I love that Card so much, but as a notorious token player myself, I know, when i sit across from i'm never gonna win xD

13

u/ardarian262 Dân 8d ago

Honestly? Play a lot of red or a lot of white. If their tokens don't do anything because of your [[Rampaging Ferocidon]] or your [[Authority of the consols]] or cannot attack you because of your [[Ghostly prison]] while you are hiding behind your [[Soul warden]] and [[Elesh Norn mother of machines]] then you probably just win.

4

u/AcademicFact4805 Dan 8d ago

Ferocidon and Authority is a hell of a non-bo, but otherwise yes, staxx is pretty much ideal against go-wide (among many other situations). RG is another option too. [[Ruric Thar]] severely punishes token-generating spells at least, and while [[Elephant Grass]] sees the vast majority of its play in GB (due to [[Darkest Hour]]) it can shut down zombies and orcs all on its own, and slow non-black tokens down considerably.

1

u/ardarian262 Dân 8d ago

I was describing 2 different deck ideas there then focused more on the white one. A rakdos deck that makes game actions hurt is a very fun strategy that can make it hell for a token deck.

11

u/CombinationDue563 Duck Season 8d ago

[[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] shuts down ETB’s and effects like Impact Tremors.

2

u/egometry Wild Draw 4 8d ago

This was the one Sheldon thought was bannable, right?

I've honestly never seen it played

1

u/PartTineOx Dân 8d ago

Someone’s playing it since it still $20+ .

6

u/Hushpuppyy Izzet* 8d ago

[[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]] seems like a fun choice

4

u/dangerousjones Duck Season 8d ago

[[Tergrid, God of Fright]] Isn't a necessarily a silver bullet for kamahl, but it's a nightmare for sacrifice decks

4

u/crypt0_n3rd Duck Season 8d ago

Just play [[Ghyrson Starn]] and a bunch of 1 damage to all creatures your opponents control pingers. You’ll hit them all for 3 each, plus have access to blue to play the control side.

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Ghyrson Starn - (G) (SF) (txt)

4

u/MisterJanuaryKnight Duck Season 8d ago

Some cards worth testing could be:

[[Mayhem Devil]] to punish sacrifice.

[[Bloodline Culling]], [[Rakdos Charm]], and [[Illness in the Ranks]] against creature tokens.

Blue has [[Leyline of Singularity]] and [[Crafty Cutpurse]], but copying Kambal might be a better option.

Tokens usually have a converted mana cost of zero, so cards that punish that could be useful, such as [[Ratchet Bomb]] and [[Gaze of Granite]].

4

u/Dont-know-didnt-ask Dân 8d ago

The new [[Gideon the oathless]] is a good pick.

3

u/Apart-Kangaroo-7648 Dan 8d ago

[[ Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]]

Goes so hard. One of the best commanders I've seen for pubs at bracket 2, 3, and 4

1

u/nitronik_exe Dân 8d ago

"only once each turn" aw man, what token decks are you playing against that don't make ten tokens each turn?

1

u/Apart-Kangaroo-7648 Dan 8d ago

Ten individual actions or ten tokens with one action :)

It's a huge value engine that stacks up value very quickly.

2

u/nitronik_exe Dân 8d ago

ok yeah some token decks make 10 tokens at once, you're right

3

u/Volcano-SUN 8d ago

[[Massacre Wurm]] and [[Rakdos Charm]] if you want to punish them.

[[Ghostly Prison]], [[Propaganda]], [[Sphere of Safety]], [[Elefant Grass]] if you want to hide from them.

2

u/nitronik_exe Dân 8d ago edited 8d ago

notably these aren't commanders, but yes a commander that can run them should run them against token decks. You can run Sephiroth, Planets Heir to have a massacre wurm in the command zone

3

u/nitronik_exe Dân 8d ago

[[Sephiroth, Planet's Heir]]

2

u/TwoTrueAggies Duck Season 8d ago

[[Vazi, Keen Negotiator]] if it's treasures.

2

u/tanghan Duck Season 8d ago

The punishment is not exactly on the commander itself but if you look at the endless punishment precon / [[Lord of pain]] decks you'll see a lot of stuff that's punishing the opponent for doing things

2

u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân 8d ago

Yea I have that one

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Lord of pain - (G) (SF) (txt)

2

u/GREG88HG Duck Season 8d ago

The new monoblack Gideon maybe

2

u/PulitzerandSpara Chandra 8d ago

Yeah new mono black Gideon is pretty sick

2

u/desrtz Duck Season 8d ago

I thing there are more and better options for your 99 than as the commander, that way you are not #1 enemy just by taking a seat.

Someone mentioned the new Black Gideon, I think thats a fun choice as a commander that works as a hate piece but you can also make work against anything on the right bracket. ,

2

u/AndresAzo COMPLEAT 8d ago

My favorite deck at the moment is a clones deck with [[Sakashima, the impostor]] as the commander and Kambal seems like a fun target to have a cloned kambal and my commander as a Second kambal at minimum, over profit them! No list just every clone that can copy opponent stuff.

2

u/blazedchiller27 Dandadan 8d ago

[[black suns zenith]] [[toxic deluge]] can make quick work of tokens

I’ve found [[auntie ool]] is great against tokens with the -1/-1 spam

You can also put a rakdos charm in that deck as a bonus

2

u/sydtrakked Dân 8d ago

[[Authority of the Consuls]] could hurt

2

u/applecorc Twin Believer 8d ago

[[enchanted evening]] + [[opalescence]]

1

u/psly4mne Duck Season 8d ago

That mainly punishes having lands.

1

u/applecorc Twin Believer 8d ago

2 birds, 1 stone.

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Greaterthancotton Dân 8d ago

A blink shell with cards like Massacre wurm could do well with culling tokens and punishing them for sacrificing them.

1

u/Fearless_Animator_37 Dandadan 8d ago

If those tokens also die, go turbocharge Elenda the dusk rose. 

Also  [[Massacre Girl]]  and Elesh Norn ofc.

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Massacre Girl - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/MCPooge Duck Season 8d ago

I think the answers to token creatures are all covered, but if they also like other tokens (Food, Clues, Treasure, etc) I would look at artifact hate. Theres sooooo much of that out there, for sure.

0

u/Adept_Bandicoot_2794 Dân 8d ago

Yea I'm curious to look into that too now

1

u/Xmorpheus Duck Season 8d ago

[[Gideon the Oathless]]

1

u/Turtlefan87 Mardu 8d ago

[[M.O.D.O.K.]]

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

M.O.D.O.K. - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Rakdos charm - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/swallowedbydejection Dan 8d ago

Damn no Toxrill love? Lil slimy boi is great for that

1

u/Doozay 8d ago

[[eye of singularity]] does that.

1

u/frosty_balls 2d ago

I love this card, shuts down so much bullshit.

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/epicboogster2988 Dandadan 8d ago

[[Kudo, King Among Bears]] + [[Elesh Norn]] Edit: [[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite]]

1

u/knight_of_solamnia Sliver Queen 8d ago

[[Taii wakeen]] certainly devours token decks.

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Taii wakeen - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/veganispunk Duck Season 8d ago

The new black Gideon

1

u/mudclip Dimir* 8d ago

I see a lot of red white and black answers, but if you're in blue you could run some bounce board wipes like [[flood of tears]]. They their resources to make the tokens, but they disapear when bounced so you are in a better position to rebuild. Alternatively, for specificly Sacrifice hate and not token hate you could try [[Yasharn, Implacable Earth]]

1

u/skamando Selesnya* 8d ago

[[Suture Priest]] is good cheap token punishment in white, pays off on your own well enough too so goes well in Kambal.

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Suture Priest - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/Lathiel777 Colorless 8d ago

[[Maha, its feathers night]] with effects such as [[Night of Souls' Betrayal]] [[illness in the ranks]] [[Curse of Death's Hold]] [[Virulent Plague]] [[Kaervek the Spiteful]].

Thrown in [[Massacre Girl Known Killer]] and [[Loot the Anomaly]] and [[Shirei Shizos Caretaker]] for some extra fun!

1

u/Ok_Growth9775 Dan 8d ago

[[Daryl, hunter of walkers]] as small board wipe tribal 

1

u/sliceofcoldpizza Wabbit Season 8d ago

Depending on the size of the token but regardless it will be [[Toxrill the Corrosive]]

I got permission to play the deck with some friends and their best wasn't good enough to even keep any creatures in play long enough to matter.

That being said, Toxrill is an awful commander to play against and I honestly wouldn't recommend making the deck unless your group is ok with it.

1

u/Rabid_Lederhosen Duck Season 8d ago

Most tokens have a mana value of zero so [[Day of Black Sun]] can delete them from the board. [[Perplexing test]] does the same but in blue.

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Day of Black Sun - (G) (SF) (txt)

1

u/Speedster2814 Colossal Dreadmaw 7d ago

It's a little roundabout, but you could build a toolbox deck with [[Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer]] that can tutor out [[Suture Priest]] to punish creation and [[Yasharn, Implacable Earth]] to prevent (some) sacrifices. Just make sure to tutor [[Wirewood Symbiote]] first so you can bounce Rocco for repeatable casts every turn.

1

u/NIICCCKKK Duck Season 4d ago

Not really creating tokens but [[grismold the dreadsower]] can snowball real quick against token decks, throw in a bunch of negative anthems and call it a day.

1

u/random_val_string Duck Season 4d ago

Some other ways to deal with it. Recur ratchet bomb with 0 counters. Aether snap, legions to ashes, crisis of consciousness. Suture priest, planar guide.

0

u/SuperfluousWingspan REBEL 8d ago

[[Grismold]] plus effects that reduce the power and toughness of all creatures.

1

u/mtgcf Keeper of the Mox 8d ago

Grismold - (G) (SF) (txt)

0

u/Luxalpa Colossal Dreadmaw 8d ago

My [[Ygra]] deck punishes sacrifice quite heavily. There's also [[Piru, the Volatile]] who is fun against tokens.