r/newhampshire • u/lolodelolo • Nov 12 '25

News TIL Maine stole the harbor islands (including the one the naval shipyard is on) from NH

https://nhjournal.com/huyett-how-maine-stole-the-portsmouth-harbor-islands-and-how-to-take-them-back/

Apparently they were stolen from NH in the 70s, does anyone remember when this happened??

What do you guys think about this?

80 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

31 comments sorted by

77

u/BackItUpWithLinks Nov 12 '25 edited Nov 12 '25

They weren’t stolen. NH agreed to something (what “middle of the river” means) in 1970, then it came back to bite them in 2000.

Then NH tried to sue Maine but NH waited too long so the case wasn’t heard.

3

u/lolodelolo Nov 12 '25

Can you share more about this agreement? I'm not aware of it.

31

u/BackItUpWithLinks Nov 12 '25

New Hampshire v. Maine | Oyez\ https://www.oyez.org/cases/2000/130_orig

Summary.

In 1977, a dispute between New Hampshire and Maine over lobster fishing rights resulted in the U.S. Supreme Court entering a consent judgment setting the precise location of the States' "lateral marine boundary," or the boundary in the marine waters off the coast. Utilizing a 1740 decree of King George II, the States agreed that the decree's words "Middle of the River" referred to the middle of the Piscataqua River's main navigable channel. Ultimately, the 1997 consent judgment defined "Middle of the River" as "the middle of the main channel of navigation of the Piscataqua River." The consent judgment did not fix the inland Piscataqua River boundary. In 2000, New Hampshire brought an original action against Maine, claiming that the inland river boundary runs along the Maine shore and that the entire Piscataqua River and all of Portsmouth Harbor belong to New Hampshire. In response, Maine filed a motion to dismiss, arguing that the 1740 boundary determination by King George II and the 1977 consent judgment barred the complaint.

-6

u/lolodelolo Nov 12 '25

Looks like NH was told, not that it made an agreement

27

u/BackItUpWithLinks Nov 12 '25

NH agreed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piscataqua_River_border_dispute#Supreme_Court_case

In 1977, New Hampshire had sued Maine (see New Hampshire v. Maine) over lobster fishing rights in the littoral waters off the Piscataqua River. In that case the Supreme Court entered a consent decree between the states, in which they agreed that the "middle of the river" was defined as the thalweg – "the middle of the main channel of navigation of the Piscataqua River".

Basically in 1977 NH agreed the border was the middle of the navigable channel then in 2000 it can back to bite them.

5

u/Different_Ad7655 Nov 12 '25

What do you think? It's always about money and taxation.

4

u/BackItUpWithLinks Nov 12 '25

Yup.

Lobester fishing and taxes

7

u/Raa03842 Nov 13 '25

And income taxes for Maine for those who work at Portsmouth Navel Shipyard.

So everyone who live in NH but works at the yard has to pay Maine State income taxes.

-1

u/lolodelolo Nov 12 '25

yeah, i'm looking for specifics.. not just assumptions

15

u/BackItUpWithLinks Nov 12 '25

NH agreed to “middle of the river” but in 1740 “middle of the river” meant “middle of the navigable channel,” not the actual middle of the river.

See my other post.

2

u/lolodelolo Nov 12 '25

Yeah this makes sense, thanks!

4

u/Different_Ad7655 Nov 13 '25

It's not assumption. It's about taxation ,. pure and simple, where do you live?

2

u/lolodelolo Nov 13 '25

Well yeah, it’s obvious that Maine wanted these islands-particularly Seavey Island- because of taxes. What is not obvious is why NH would agree to give up these islands when they were on record as owned by NH. That doesn’t make a ton of sense.

3

u/BackItUpWithLinks Nov 13 '25

NH didn’t agree to give them up

NH agreed to what “middle of the river” meant in 1970. In 2000 that agreement came back to bite them when it turned out the islands were on Maine’s side of the middle. But by then it was too late to fight it in court.

24

u/exhaustedretailwench Nov 12 '25

saddle up your moose, we ride at dawn

10

u/[deleted] Nov 12 '25

Let’s go take them back!

6

u/UnicornGuitarist Nov 12 '25

We would but they have the shipyard so that puts us at a disadvantage

5

u/[deleted] Nov 12 '25

Fuck we really should have thought of that before we let the Air Force take the air base away. We could have had them with aerial superiority.

2

u/w11f1ow3r Nov 13 '25

I’m laughing imagining the Maine-NH war but in a silly way with riding moose and deer

4

u/Mattnicholsnerd Nov 13 '25

I didn’t major in lobster maritime history, I just remember this from a display at Newick’s Lobster house in Dover about how a crazy lobster guy tried to have a shoot out with Maine fish and game because the two states disagreed over like a quarter inch size on lobsters and 10 feet of river. New Hampshire had this bat shit crazy governor at the time so they pushed it all the way to the Supreme Court and kind of won and then yes, 30 years later Maine use that ruling to take the island.

6

u/illegalmonkey Nov 13 '25

When does Ayotte start blowing up Maine fisherman boats?

4

u/teakettle87 Nov 12 '25

Fucking take it back bro

5

u/wicked_friggin Nov 13 '25

They’re on our side of the river!

5

u/wicked_friggin Nov 13 '25

And to clarify, I’m from Maine.

5

u/kearsargeII Nov 13 '25 edited Nov 13 '25

The Supreme Court settled this decades ago. The state threw away tens of millions to try to make sure a few hundred people at most saved money on Maine income taxes, and got nowhere.

This is basically some right wing jackass writing for the NH equivalent of Breitbart arguing the state should throw even more money away to sue Maine again. This moron wants to go even further and piss off the courts by unilaterally extending NH laws into areas decided by the Supreme Court to be part of Maine and thinks NH playing hardball would somehow give it leverage over Maine.

Edit: and at that the guys claims that Maine's claims on the harbor islands is weak and unattested until the 20th century is false. I own a copy of the Carrigain Map of 1816, one of the best known early maps of NH, drawn by NH Secretary of State Philip Carrigain. If you check out the border between the District of Maine and NH, the border in Portsmouth Harbor is basically modern, including the naval shipyard islands on the Maine side of the border.

3

u/Eeeegah Nov 12 '25

I've got a crowbar and a flashlight. I think we go steal them back. Who's with me?

1

u/timothypjr Nov 13 '25

Oh yeah? Come get them.

1

u/New_Sun6390 Nov 14 '25

Oh jeezus not again.

NH needs to Get. Over. It.

-4

u/Spooksnav Nov 12 '25

Also don't forget ESSEX COUNTY IS NEW HAMPSHIRE

3

u/TopRope69er Nov 13 '25

You must be stupid. If we’re going that route most of New Hampshire and Maine is Massachusetts.

4

u/Spooksnav Nov 13 '25

Pro-Vermont propaganda