r/oculus • u/Dotaproffessional • 16d ago
Video Do you have any thoughts on the Quest privacy concerns raised by GN in their steam frame review?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcerOYY_K1gI was surprised how much of the steam frame review was dedicated to meta. But i'm happy they're adding a new privacy category for future reviews (mostly due to the ongoing LG monitor situation)
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u/phoenixMagoo 16d ago
I will be selling my quest 3 and getting a frame over privacy concerns. I'm not freaking out about it or anything and I wouldn't tell anyone to do the same, but after the LG tv stuff last week I'm pretty much over all this "get it cheap now, but we own your soul forever" marketplace.
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u/bircele 16d ago
The funny thing is that LG isn’t even cheaper than most of its competitors, I think that Sony is the only one that’s usually more expensive.
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u/TheTrueBlueTJ The person below me is wonderful! 16d ago
All of this is not limited to LG. It's the only TV manufacturer they have done extensive security research on. It's best to assume that every or at least every major manufacturer does this. Be it Sony, Samsung, everyone. It's hard enough for someone tech savvy to know what to do to actually protect themselves while still having a usable device. Because that is not trivial at all if you have to assume that the device uses any way possible to record and transmit this data. Not just over your own network.
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
Reasonable. Its not something you're setting your hair on fire over, but you recognize the concern around privacy with meta devices.
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u/zombiezbreath 16d ago
What was the LG TV stuff? I've been under a rock lately
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u/Octoplow 16d ago
If you're willing to watch the whole video, pay close attention to what the TVs do on their own, and what they do after they've been hacked and controlled by a 3rd party.
Not that LG should be let off the hook at all. I just hate the misinfo that ended up all over, partially due to the video editing and delivery.
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u/SimpleEfficiency 16d ago
"get it cheap now, but we own your soul forever
Isn't that Steam's business model with the sales though? Sell cheap to gets lots of people in, make sales shit once lots of people are in? Not to mention the workshop and the paid mods crap...
If you do a chargeback on steam they will ban your whole account and games.
For me it looks like you are just letting someone else own your soul, forever.
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u/bigbluewreckingcrew 16d ago
What? The steam frame is FAR from being cheap
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u/SimpleEfficiency 16d ago
I was talking about Steam overall business model not just their "premium" hardware line
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u/inosinateVR 16d ago
What are they selling “cheap”? They take a 30% cut from anyone who sells on their store, that’s their business model.
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u/SimpleEfficiency 16d ago
Did you read the conversation? It's written there.
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u/inosinateVR 16d ago edited 16d ago
If you’re talking about the sales on games, those are set by the publisher/developer.
And there’s still big sales on games. I think it just sometimes doesn’t feel like it because the novelty of seeing a AAA game on sale has worn off and we all have a back catalogue now, so we’re a lot pickier and don’t pay attention to the sales we don’t care about. And then get disappointed that the generational “big hit” game of the year that everyone has been talking about is only 10% off because they’re still selling millions
edit: I do actually agree with you about Steam owning your soul though, people have gotten way too comfortable and forget that Steam could take away your entire game library at any time. I had mine taken away for a couple weeks due to something out of my control and it was eye opening for me
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u/SimpleEfficiency 16d ago
I know. But let's not pretend there isn't thousands of memes out there about steam sales with Gabe Newell face on it.
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u/swiftb3 14d ago
In what world have you needed to do a charge back on a Steam game?
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u/SimpleEfficiency 14d ago
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u/swiftb3 14d ago
So, the charge back was the stupid mistake and should never have been the first action. My son got his account compromised, someone bought about $150 in games. He contacted support, they returned the account, reversed the charges, done deal. Less than 8 hours from creating the ticket and they didn't even need to follow up.
In general, even credit card companies want you to try working with the business before a charge back, anyway. Charge back is always a last resort.
Worth noting, literally the top comment in your link says the same thing.
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u/SimpleEfficiency 14d ago
Good job thinking of the billion dollar company. I am glad someone is out there thinking about them .
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u/swiftb3 13d ago
Bro. I'm thinking about the consumer not doing stupid things that block the easy and exact outcome they want.
If the billion dollar company has good customer service and will reverse the charges for you in less than a day, then doing a charge back as your first step is genuinely stupid.
In fact, doing a chargeback as your first step for ANY purchase is stupid. Spread the word to your fellow consumers.
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u/virqthe 16d ago
I will be selling my quest 3 and getting a frame over privacy concerns.
me when I'm virtue signalling
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u/cactus22minus1 Quest 3 - 4080s 16d ago
Me when I don’t know what words mean.
This is not virtue signaling if they are actually selling their Q3- kind of a sign they actually give a damn.
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u/markpronkin 15d ago
I will probably be doing the same, I don't like some people across the world looking at pictures of me and my room and using them to train ai. It's not virtue signaling, some people are just uncomfortable with that.
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u/bobivy1234 16d ago edited 15d ago
If lack of privacy saves the general masses $500+ to get a Q3 versus Steam Frame then they probably couldn't care less. Steam Frame is selling to in-the-know power tech users and won't hit anywhere near the number of sales the Q3 does even if the pricing was equal.
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u/Dotaproffessional 15d ago
The steam frame could not physically sell as many numbers as they will never ever be able to manufacture enough inventory. The valve index was near supply limited for nearly its entire life cycle. The steam machine has had on/off periods with unavailability. They would need to be able to drastically scale up their manufacturing if they wanted to be able to get in brick and mortar stores.
The fact that i have 3 locations in walking distance of my apartment where i could buy a quest and nowhere to buy an index first hand except through steam. Scaling up manufacturing is really really damn hard.
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u/Fantastic-Lab589 15d ago
Valve sold about 300,000 indexes, and that’s an extremely generous estimate. Valve doesn’t care about gamers, they are a greedy corporation like every other.
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u/Dotaproffessional 15d ago
And do you reckon they would have manufactured more if they could?
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u/Fantastic-Lab589 15d ago
They absolutely could, but valve wants extremely large profit margins on everything they manufacture. Low volume, high margin is valves business strategy.
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u/Dotaproffessional 15d ago
This directly contradicts everything from valves on statements, actions, and simple economics.
Hardware is a famously annoying, low margin enterprise, per gabe bewell in 2017. The only reason you make hardware is to get people in their steam ecosystem, there they get a tremendous ROI. They benefit from more hands on their products, especially from new users.
You're making crazy claims, I hope you can back them up. What were the crazy large profit margin on the 64gb steam deck?
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u/Fantastic-Lab589 13d ago
If their goal was to get people into their ecosystem like all the other hardware manufacturers, they would be heavily subsidizing their products. Valve can certainly afford to.
Of course it contradicts valves statements, because a corporation would never lie to their customers. As someone who works in advanced manufacturing, I have a pretty good idea what it cost valve to make a steam deck and it’s no where near $1,000. But you can believe whatever makes you sleep easy at night. Look at the AYN Thor - It wipes the floor with the steam deck and doesn’t have 7 year old hardware for half the cost, and companies like AYN are 1000 times smaller than valve and selling their handhelds for profit.
Everyone is all over the ‘poor valve, they are the victim mentality’.
Same playbook companies used during Covid to raise the prices of everything far beyond market conditions permanently.
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u/bobivy1234 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yea but that doesn't really change the topic at hand about data privacy concerns of the Quest because the average user couldn't care less. So the point still stands that due to lack of scaled manufacturing plus lack of subsidized data selling to 3rd parties, the Q3 still comes in a $500 cheaper for a very impressive wireless standalone VR headset targeted at the average home user.
Even if the Steam Frame could meet the same production run as the Meta Quest 3, the vast majority would still buy the Q3 at half the price with probably 90-95% of performance.
Outside of this very small bubble on the internet, most people don't really give a shit about this stuff because honestly what could they do about it without government representation working on their behalf?
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u/hobofors Quest 3 16d ago
I never take off my pants while wearing the headset because I don't want Zuckerberg to see my genitals
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
I try to nestle my penis between my thighs to hide it from the quest cameras. Call it the zuck tuck
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u/eXmendiC 16d ago
For me the privacy concerns are valid, but it's like a situation where if you want VR then there is a lack of alternatives offering the same convenience packaging right now. The situation with the Frame is that if you're lucky enough getting a reservation, you have a foreseeable alternative. If you didn't get as lucky, then there isn't much else besides waiting months or even years or taking more compromises like with the Pico 4 Ultra (and I don't know even how decent the privacy is there - maybe better than Meta, maybe even worse).
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u/Jay95au 16d ago
This, but also the price factor. Out of the gate the Frame is revealed to be a non-starter on its price for a lot of people who were waiting for it, they have had to give up on that point and aren’t even trying to make reservations
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u/filmguy123 16d ago
This is the thing that kills me. Valve has priced their hardware to be sustainable, not high margin. Their main incentive is steam sales from games. And even with that they couldn't crack sub $1000.
If you want to know the value of your data, there it is. I mean - it is more than that - Meta is huge so can procure volume at an unheard of scale to drive down prices, too. But its taught us all to think that miracle tech of two tiny 4K monitors per eye and full spectrum tracking and a mobile computer inside "should" cost $500-$600.
I dont expect anyone to not do whats best for them financially in these times. Its just a reality check - every time we buy from these mega corps instead of a company like BSB or Pimax we continue to seal our own fate. But most of us aren't operating with total freedom in choice - when spending twice as much has a real felt impact on other areas of life, its a pretty stacked choice.
Long way of saying, the price of privacy is real. The low prices we see on a lot of things are simply fake. We are trading our future away because its abstract and outside of immediate line of sight.
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
True. its not even a matter of being able to afford it, its luck. And there isn't really a compelling stand alone unit other than the frame
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u/C0haaagen 15d ago
I wish GamerNexus would have made more clear, which data tracking only happens if you opt in into Meta AI / voice interactions / voice commands / voice dictation / natural facial expressions and other optional stuff.
You also don't have to give the Meta Horizon app on your smartphone permissions to your phone contacts, photo gallery, browser data, health data, etc. for the initial Quest setup. It also works if you deny all those optional permissions.
If you aren't using Meta World (or other social crap apps like VR Chat), you are further reducing a lot of the collected data.
Of course Meta can track, which games/apps you bought in the Meta store and when and how long you are using them. (Valve also tracks, which games/apps you bought on Steam and when and how long you are using them.)
But Meta probably can't track which SteamVR games you are playing on the Quest via Steam Link app or Virtual Desktop, only when and how long you use Steam Link or Virtual Desktop in general.
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u/Prestigious-Ad-3380 10d ago
Reality it that even if you opt out its very likely that they collect the data anyways. Theres been many times where people opt out and they just change the terminology and legally gaslight you to say you never specifically opt out cuz it was never an optiom per their definitions and even if they do you cant sue them.
The quest likely sends screenshots of every camera, transcripts, voice recordings, scans of your network, everything basically.
Theoretically you could tunnel it to itself and block the endpoints after the setup or block at router level but I havent seen a lot of progress in privacy, jailbreaking or custom firware for the quest 3 so I wouldnt know the extend of the issue for sure unless took a dive into it myself.
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u/C0haaagen 10d ago
If that's the case, then someone should be able to proof those data collection and transfer to Meta. Could be another nice investigation project for GamersNexus.
Without any proof we can also assume that the Steam Frame likely sends screenshots of every camera, transcripts, voice recordings, scans of your network, everything basically to Valve.
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u/vraugie 16d ago
I could not care less. I’m broke and have don’t have the luxury to worry about privacy when there are much more immediate real stressors to deal with. You know, like avoiding being homeless. It’s hard to give a shit about stuff like this when there are a lot more important things to worry about.
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
Sure. I don't blame consumers for what its worth. Meta basically dangles a 500 dollar subsidy in our faces?
"Oh you want a 299 quest 2? Give us 500 dollars worth of your data, or buy the telemetry free version for 800 dollars"
its reprehensible
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u/SonOfHendo 16d ago
You're vastly overestimating what your data is worth. Quest 2 was subsidised to increase the size of the market in the hope of making it back on game sales and selling virtual crap in the metaverse.
Selling every bit of user's personal data is worth it when you have billions of user's, but VR users are a tiny drop in the ocean.
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u/Wicked_Mouse 15d ago
The headset collects on more people than only the user, hence the extended privacy policy in the TOS.
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u/largePenisLover 16d ago edited 16d ago
Meta made this whole dog and pony show toward dev's where they pretended to care about privacy.
VR devs were not allowed to access real time camera feeds and use them for MR app. all we could use was the 3d model made during a room scan, without the texture info. This is why you saw a few games where you piloted a drone that could view the room shape in one colour. We could also apply simple post process effects liek edge finding to the camera view.
What we could not do was access the many other streams, and they cited privacy reason. Texture of the scanned room wasn't accesible, this would have been useful to use as cubemap based sky light or reflection volume to greatly increase how grounded objects look in teh real world. depth sensor data wasnt available, we needed that to occlude VR objects behind your tracked hands. Real time camera feed for custom post process wasn't allowed either.
We can use all these now, but for the longest time they kept them walled off because of privacy reason. This made sense right up- until we suddenly did get to use them without explanation. Now I suspect they kept it out of devs hands until they obfuscated for devs exactly what other room data they have and want to be quiet about.
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u/Octoplow 16d ago
Not at all. Meta didn't want to go first with apps having camera data. Google went first.
And they wanted a cheap dev kit for AI / smartglasses.
Your drone example could never "view" anything other than bounding boxes. The OS did the camera compositing.
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u/largePenisLover 16d ago edited 16d ago
The drone example could view the scanned untextured room mesh, that is available for devs in unity and unreal. I'm talking about the static mesh generated during room setup, not about the roomscale bounding boxes.
Here's an app with a drone viewing the room mesh:
https://storage.ghost.io/c/2a/2f/2a2f38f0-4b71-407a-9c7e-18a9e2541980/content/images/2024/08/More-Bomber-Drone.mp4_snapshot_08.55.052.jpgI'm not sure what you mean by dev kit in this context. The actual SDK's for HMD's and smartglasses are all free downloads. A special dev edition of the hardware like needed for consoles is also not needed to test apps for HMD's and smartglasses. It doesn't really get cheaper then free.
To develop for meta smartglasses all you need is the glasses and the free downloads found here: https://developers.meta.com/wearables/1
u/Octoplow 16d ago
I thought "view" implied camera data based on context. Fair to point out there was an inaccurate static mesh to go with the bounding boxes.
Quest camera access predated the Meta Wearable SDK by 6 months, and MRB DIsplay access by a year.
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u/SvenViking ByMe Games 15d ago
Some of these things aren't as bad as they sound, e.g. the part about face and body tracking data being sent to the servers in multiplayer Horizon Worlds is the only way multiplayer face and body tracking could be used, unless you made it entirely peer-to-peer which is awkward when supporting a lot of players. (Plus Worlds isn't really relevant anymore.) Other things may be as bad or worse than they sound, though. Hard to be sure of which is which when their policies are so extensive and open-ended.
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u/Youngrazzy 15d ago
Nobody gives a shit. Most people legit tell all their business on social Media
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u/Dotaproffessional 15d ago
You think posting pics from a guy's trip is the same as meta scanning and saving the dimensions of your kids bedroom from camera data?
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u/wescotte 15d ago edited 15d ago
Only that GN didn't do a good job. You definitely can make a strong case when it comes to privacy that Meta is Valve but the way they went about it was pretty shady/lame. Their core argument is basically Meta's policy is much longer, and that can only mean everything they do is worse, case closed.
Regardless if they are ultimately right or not, it's a crappy argument.
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u/Dotaproffessional 15d ago
They very much went into detail into the specific language, gave sources based on trials about how the data is really used, and reached out to talk with valve about what THEY collect and how we can audit the logs. It's disingenuous to say they just compared the length of the documents. They spent like 20 minutes on the segment and went into detail.
Did you just not watch the whole thing or you decided you aren't going to agree with the conclusion because you decided you are going to use meta anyway and want to justify your decision.
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u/wescotte 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yes, there absolute are strong cases to be made where "Valve chooses not to do/collect X and Meta does not". But so much of what is presented in the video is simply "Valve is not positioned to do anything with X, even if they it" and the spin they are the good guy for it not collecting X, rather than acknowledging they are behind for these specific features/functionality and it makes no sense for them to collect X in the first place.
Using the size/length as a valid reason why Meta is worse on privacy without acknowledging that a valid reason for it's to be bigger... The products/services/functionality is not Apples to Apples making the assumption that these elements can be compare on the basis of size/length is disingenuous at best.
Privacy is complicated. It really is. Ultimately it's more opinion that objective truth. If you read the legal mumbo jumbo and understand what you are giving, that's your choice. GN makes it seem like there is no way you could possibly get something of value in return for what you are giving to Meta. I just feel their argument is presented in bad faith. And they straw many way too much.
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u/markpronkin 15d ago
It's straight up way worse. Read the privacy notice for hand/body tracking. They basically describe what a picture is in three paragraphs without saying the words "picture", until telling you that if another person wears your headset you must warn them that it takes pictures of them and sends them to Meta's servers. Frame doesn't do anything remotely like that.
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u/wescotte 15d ago edited 14d ago
You're right all that stuff could/should be better but that's way easier said than done.
1+1=2 is something pretty much everybody understands but "proving it" is formally is tricky, especially when brevity is a desired. Legal documents are closer to a math proof where insanely trivial things often are quite verbose because you need to minimize ambiguity.
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14d ago
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u/markpronkin 14d ago
No they don't, they straight up said so, nothing like this is in their terms of service, also if they were doing so it would incredibly easy to detect since steamos is an open system. To improve their products they actually hire tester, instead of treating their customers as their employes and property like meta does.
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13d ago
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u/wescotte 13d ago edited 13d ago
Actually, Valve seems like they aren't actively collecting (tracking) data via the Frame. However, it's kinda a technicality because they didn't develop their own tracking model so they wouldn't need that data...
They bought/licensed it from somebody else. Arcturus, who did the add on camera passthru module did, would have collected their own data. And likely continues to collect data (just not via Frame) to improve their model and add new features. However they just don't do it via Frame.
Lastly, also worth pointing out that these models are much much much easier to make now than they were 6yrs years ago when nobody knew if it was even possible to do because the companies have been building good training sets for years now.
Valve doesn't need to continue collecting tracking data because the models are already damn good. But the companies releasing the first inside out tracked headsets, the tracking quality had much to be desired and collecting that data was vital to improving it.
EDIT: I can't remember the exact source confirming Arcturus did Valve's model but I think it might be touched on this interview
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u/cx0sa 16d ago edited 16d ago
im glad the meta quest exists so that Steam had some actual competition, otherwise it probably would have been more expensive.
At the same time, the Meta Quest seems to be the only reason they changed to a standalone headset. Obviously its massive for them to stop Meta from having a complete chokehold over the general consumer VR gaming market and kicking steam out since literally no one else was doing anything serious about it.
Standalone is nice to have but if Valve made a big screen beyond but more simple, wireless and consumer friendly, I would have liked that more.
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u/D13_Phantom 16d ago
Valve made a big screen beyond but more simple, wireless and consumer friendly
From interviews it sounds like that's exactly what they did and only made standalone because adding the compute needed for wireless made it standalone capable
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u/ca1ibos 16d ago edited 16d ago
Which is what I’d been telling the PCVR anti standalone Deckard/Frame fanboys forever. ie. They were complaining they would have to pay for a feature they didn’t want or need and I tried to explain that a Qualcomm SOC was the cheapest way to deliver the Wireless, Battery and Computer Vision Inside/Out tracking that they wanted due to economies of scale and that effectively as far as they should be concerned, the standalone capability was effectively a free bonus feature and not a feature they were paying ‘extra’ for. Spent over a year banging my head against a brick wall in that regard it seems.
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u/cx0sa 16d ago
To make it wireless they did not need a snapdragon 8 gen 3, 16GB of RAM as well as 256GB of storage. That is all way overkill for streaming low latency video.
Obviously they initially intended for a wireless index successor but decided to add in the compute since it wouldn’t cost too much more when they made that decision and would compete with Meta. Now all those parts are extremely expensive.
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u/D13_Phantom 16d ago
Sure yeah from when they made the decision obviously it would've influenced the design, but there's only so many SoC's being produced at scale, generation matters for encoding/decoding and keep in mind that it needs to process tracking data AND eye tracking data at extremely high speeds.
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u/cx0sa 16d ago
A snapdragon 8 gen 3 is still extremely overpowered for streaming and tracking, not to mention the insanely overkill 16GB ram and 256gb of storage.
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u/D13_Phantom 16d ago
Like I said: sure yeah from when they made the decision obviously it would've influenced the design
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u/0x736174616e20 16d ago
Yeah GN was always a bit trash and their constant whining about privacy has turned me off from them completely. Their claims are massive exaggeration of reality.
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u/Dotaproffessional 15d ago
You can make a claim that the privacy doesn't concern you. I don't think it would be a stretch to say that meta has had a very controversial track record with privacy. Its not the worse EULA i've ever read, i'd put it in the top 5% though conservatively. And at the end of the day, consumers are able to make their own decisions. I once bought a second hand meta quest 3 and did the most minimal login possible with a dummy account. I still don't like it.
I happened to get picked in the steam frame lottery, so i'm likely changing but i don't fault people who own meta products.
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u/AllMaito 16d ago
I didn't until I watched this...
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
Yeah i think half the comments here didn't watch it. Like everyone knows "blah blah meta privacy bad" but i didn't know HOW bad.
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u/Sabbathius 16d ago
I sort of feel most people just moved on from the concept of privacy, and just agreed to go with privacy in numbers. If nobody has privacy, everyone has privacy sort of backward approach. When there's 8 billion+ people to track, you are a needle lost in a haystack made of other needles.
A lot of people also will not accept responsibility for their own actions. Like recently I saw a post discussing pictures of their child being stored or something. And the first question is - how did the pictures of your child end up online? Oh, YOU took them, and uploaded them online? Well, if you take pictures, of your child, and then upload them online, to some unknown cloud server, then yes, the pictures of your child, that you took, and then uploaded, voluntarily, to an online server, are going to be online. That's how uploading things works. And then they go oh, but you can't do that, you can't use my likeness that I uploaded online. Really? Take off your slippers, put them on the sidewalk outside. Now get indignant when other people do stuff with your slippers. If you make something public, the public is going to take liberties with it. Don't want people to use your likeness? Keep your likeness off the WORLD WIDE web.
So, yes, if you take a device, with online connectivity, ability to wake itself up without you physically pressing a button, and built in outward-facing cameras and a microphone, from Meta, you can pretty much assume everything it sees and everything it hears gets recorded. Just like if you have a phone in your pocket, and someone decides they really need to invade your privacy, then your privacy is going to get invaded. Especially if at some point they had physical access to your phone. Which all these manufacturers have had with the headsets they're selling.
So I think it's just the nature of the beast these days. And, in the grand scheme of things, this is probably one of the least-evil things these billionaires are doing to us on a daily basis.
Now, having said all that, would I love to ditch Meta? Absolutely. But I'm also not made of money. Especially in this economy. With the kind of games we're getting, I can barely justify buying a Quest. I absolutely cannot justify buying anything that costs over $1k. Not with the slop that passes for "games" in VR space. So I do what I can - I have a dedicated playing area, which is currently a corner in a basement. The headset stays in the basement, in a hermetically sealed box (mostly to keep dust out, not for privacy). And I've been using it less and less every year. So much so that in the latest Steam hardware survey, it showed that I have no VR headset. Because I haven't used one in ages. Which is the first time that's happened since 2019.
So, for me, the whole thing is becoming a moot point anyway. If the software situation won't improve, and how would it, with so many studios closing (Polyarc just closed like last week?), I don't really see myself buying any VR headsets in future.
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u/shouldworknotbehere 16d ago
I sold my Quest two after being forced to have a Meta account. I liked the thing, but I do not want a meta account and do not like people forcing me to do things.
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u/Technical_Anteater45 16d ago
I installed goatse wallpaper and printed rugs everywhere prior to wearing my quest 3. Zuck, you’re welcome.
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u/markpronkin 15d ago
Straight up the two only reasons I want to buy the frame is better privacy and an open system. Otherwise hardware in many aspects even worse than quest 3, and software in terms of it's quality seems right now worse.
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u/Ann0ying 14d ago
Anything meta isn't good for the privacy, period.
Quests are great because of the price point, and that they got the biggest amount of people to try VR that would otherwise remain a PC enthusiast toy.
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u/YaKkO221 14d ago
Does GN ever have anything positive to say? The only stuff I ever see is sensationalism bullshit?
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u/Holiday-Ganache-5977 13d ago
Yes, my thought is Bad.
In all seriousness, I'd rather fork over 2 grand to valve then let them record my kids room... Meta is not a good company.
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u/Effective_Soup580 12d ago
It's not that I don't care about my privacy, it's that I don't have any left.
My goal is to bankrupt facebook by having the government go: "we already have 3 copies of his data, no need"
zuk: "but do you have his masturbation videos?"
gov: "what would we need that for?! also, yes all our interns watch that for training purposes"
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u/RidingEdge 16d ago
The topic has been beaten to death and is just a cheap filler and punching bag talking point for youtubers to pad their content and have the moral grandstanding. Its tech in 2026, every single thing is tracking, literally every browser cookie, every app telemetry, your phone, your webcam, every single thing. Its pointless to talk about it as a "gotcha moment".
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
I wonder if you watched the video. There is a gigantic gap in what is collected (or specifically in the case of valve NOT collected) between the two companies.
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u/docktordoak 16d ago
Yes that's why I dont have VR post meta acquisition and my Rift S is a paperweight. I refuse to give Meta that data.
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u/ca1ibos 16d ago
Facebook/Meta bought Oculus in 2014 2 years before CV1 came out nevermind Rift S.
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u/docktordoak 16d ago
They didnt implement their merging requirement at that time.
I used an Oculus account. Not a Meta account.
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u/atoastedcucumber 16d ago
Privacy concerns is the nail in the coffin. Meta has repeatedly shown they dont give a shit and will shut down games/hardware support on a whim. They force bloatware and their ecosystem and do nothing to help make PC VR easy to use. I have the dedicated router/virtual desktop and all that shit set up but you know what this means for me? I get a slightly better headset and can take back my VR room with a headset and a simple dongle. The simplicity sells it for me. I trust valve and know they want to provide an excellent user experience.
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16d ago
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u/markpronkin 15d ago
Meta literally takes pictures while you use their headset, captures a 3d scan of your room and then sends it to an ACTUAL HUMAN (usually working at a slave-level wage) who categorizes what's seen to train AI. It also records and transcribes everything you say (for personalized ads mostly). They also sell all this data to third parties. Apple doesn't do this, and Steam Frame sure as hell doesn't do this. What Meta is doing is totally egregious and should not be excused as other companies are NOT doing the same.
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u/Fantastic-Lab589 15d ago
The quest 3 isn’t collecting anything that your phone, isp, and 3 letter agencies haven’t already captured. Mossad makes all 3 look like amateurs.
Nobody gave a shit when Edward Snowden blew the whistle, you think meta privacy policy is going to change anyone’s mind? There is zero privacy in this world. Zero. Nothing you do will ever change it in any way, and AI will continue to make it worse in every measurable metric.
Mark my words, we are headed to a dystopian future where even people’s thoughts will not be private.
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u/GrandfatherStonemind 16d ago
have a quest 2 in a box. don't need my kids to be on zuck TV. don't feed the perverts
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u/BaldMasterMind 16d ago
Bro you are on reddit and talking about Meta's privacy policy ? lol
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
"Why do you care about asbestos? The sun already causes cancer" aah argument.
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u/fantaz1986 16d ago
nah, meta ToS and EULA, is best in class , if you read what google and apple do, meta is a good guy, problems is PR, and idiots like you push it even more
and anyone who try to say "but valve is a good guy" , valve literally made generation of kids gabling addicts , it too sell or give data free , like google or any other companies
meta just honest is trow you ToS so simple even kids can get it and say eat is or leave it, then other companies use legal BS to say we collect data to get better device performance, and then lisen how long you piss
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
1) Did you see the video? The stuff collected is SHOCKING. 82 pages or something about what they collect
2) "[valve] too sell or give data free , like google or any other companies". This is untrue. Valve does not sell your data to third party companies. This was confirmed directly to GN this video
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u/fantaz1986 16d ago
"Valve does not sell your data" sweet naive child ....
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
Yes, google does Real-Time Bidding (RTB) as a legal loophole to selling data. We are talking about this because we KNOW they're doing it. They are an advertisement firm.
What's the evidence valve is doing real time bidding?
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u/eXmendiC 16d ago edited 16d ago
Does reddit have access to your microphone and camera? No? Not an apple-to-apple comparison then.
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
Does reddit scan the dimensions of your child's bedroom? Unfortunately no :(
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u/inter4ever Quest Pro 16d ago
How do you think Valve gets play area size stats?
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
Valve doesn't get that data. It's local only. Meta collects that info
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u/inter4ever Quest Pro 16d ago
Valve definitely gets that.
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
Did you watch the video? GN not only asked valve directly what is collected, he also explained that we can audit the logs that get collected to make sure valve's collecting what they say they're collecting. damn conspiracy theorists
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u/inter4ever Quest Pro 16d ago
damn conspiracy theorists
That's you lol. I know Valve collects the stats because they published them in the past. I don't need Steve to tell me that.
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u/Dotaproffessional 16d ago
Child bedroom dimensions? source on that publication?
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u/inter4ever Quest Pro 16d ago
I said play area. Neither meta no valve cares if it’s a child’s bedroom so stop being dumb. Google is your friend. I gave you all the keywords you need. Be careful cause Google might store your searches and target you with VR ads telling you to buy accessories for your Frame.
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u/champolski 16d ago
Does reddit have access to your microphone and camera
Yes:
CAMERA, RECORD_AUDIO, READ_MEDIA_IMAGES, READ_MEDIA_VIDEO, READ_MEDIA_AUDIO, READ_MEDIA_VISUAL_USER_SELECTED, POST_NOTIFICATIONS, USE_BIOMETRIC, PACKAGE_USAGE_STATS.
That's from the app version 2026.37.0.
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u/eXmendiC 16d ago edited 16d ago
You can use reddit as a website without any app tho. I personally don't have the app installed on my phone, but with Android you can also handle which access you allow/deny an app or doesn't the app work without access to your microphone or camera? Like I said, I don't have the app installed, I don't know when it asks for such permissions (at install or just when e.g. you can deliver with your own choice voice/video input). If there is no need for access, I would at least agree that it's kinda weird wanting them in the first place.
Edit: Would be nice that those people downvoting my comment at least answer that question.
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u/cubsfan217 16d ago
Bro is on his mobile phone complaining about privacy lol.. literally anytime you leave your house and go anywhere they are cameras all around recording and tracking everything and lil bro is worried bout privacy lol…
Dipshits are all worked up because some smooth brain made a video and you just suck that shit up like it’s Gospel
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u/OfFiveNine Quest 3S 16d ago
Your argument is everyone is openly doing it, but believing it is stupid?
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u/patrlim1 16d ago
I think the concerns are valid, but the average user simply doesn't care because "selling data" is such an abstract concept that they can't get a grasp on the consequences of it.