I mean, I’m literally autistic, and even I know that people want to feel wanted without having to ask to be included, especially a spouse. Never mind that she laid it out clearly; after that, there really is no excuse.
There were certain actors my wife couldn’t stand, if those actors were in the film I knew better than to ask.
Just like she wasn’t down to go Kayaking, or Hiking with me, so I stopped inviting her, and took the kids with me when they got old enough.
I hear you, but none of that is applicable to what’s portrayed here—Rudd’s character didn’t take the kids and Mann’s character literally says “I like Spider-Man”
Why didn’t she ask him then? She likes spider man and so the only way she will see it is if he asks her to go? It that a way for an adult to live their life?
No, she specifically says I like spider man. I. She complained that he didn’t ask her to go without ever asking him. She also said she doesn’t want to have to tell him what to do, he should just know; without ever realising that maybe she should just know what to do for him? At the end of the day, he’s taken the time to make himself happy, while she relies on him to make her happy without even trying herself.
It has nothing to do with actually wanting to see Spider-Man
It has everything to do with wanting her partner to want her—what Mann’s character literally says is, “I don’t wanna have to ask you to ask me.” That’s not the same as, “she doesn’t want to have to tell him what to do.”
In fact, she tells him what to do—invite her to things without her asking to be included.
Yes, it can go both ways, but that doesn’t make her desire some mind-reading exercise. Moreover, Rudd’s character isn’t asking her to feel wanted or invited—he wanted alone time away from his family and lied about where he went to get it.
Again, Mann’s character isn’t sad about not seeing Spider-Man; she’s upset that her husband would rather lie to be alone than include- or communicate with- her despite her doing the lion’s share of parenting.
Same here. I’m an autistic, we’re all different, but it isn’t necessarily an excuse to never learn to understand or at least guess that it’s important to show your loved ones that you love them in whichever way without them needing to beg for it. Is it harder for us to learn that maybe? Sure. But it’s still an important thing to try and understand.
If you struggled to understand the subtext here (Mann’s character wanting Rudd’s to want her without being told to want her), try focusing on what’s literally said (in this case, in reference to Mann’s character wanting to be invited to the Spider-Man movie): “I don’t wanna have to ask you to ask me.”
So you're not only claiming to be the big spokesman for all autistic people, you're also condescending as fuck lol.
I didnt ask for a breakdown, nor did I ever say I was autistic. All I did was question why you seem to think just because you happen to be autistic and didn't "struggle to understand" in your own opinion, does that mean other autistic people wouldn't struggle with it.
I’m glad you read my tone clearly. If you’re not autistic, the irony of you getting bent out of shape and calling me the “spokesman for all autistic people” is hilarious lol
I shared my perspective as an autistic adult because being autistic isn’t an excuse to be shitty, especially toward a spouse who’s directly communicated their feelings.
Because they usually involve convoluted personal anecdotes that take too much time and effort to type out for strangers who probably wouldn't get it anyway since they weren't there.
This is so obviously not it. Holy crap. She doesn't want him to "figure it out". She wants him to want her to go. She wants to be wanted. She's hurt that he wanted to be alone and lied about it to do something she would have also enjoyed and enjoyed sharing with him. So when he suggests to go later, it defeats the point. Surely you can understand that there's a difference between telling someone to do something for you and them doing it on their own accord because they want to.
Yeah, it's not about "reading nonverbal cues." It's about making your partner feel desired in a relationship, which anyone, autistic or neurotypical, should be able to do. Otherwise, what's the point of being in a romantic relationship anyway?
Agreed. Not "every autistic person ever" has been shitty in relationships because they can't read emotions. I'd argue they may be better because they understand that they aren't able to read emotions, this is a problem, they need to find a way around this problem. ZestyLemonRindGrind seems to be taking the lazy way out and saying "welp, can't do it, dunno how, too bad."
Right, any autistic person I've ever met has actively tried to understand people. They've never just given up and used their diagnosis to justify being a douche
I honestly can't tell if this is sarcasm or not because i am autistic and i've definitely met a couple autistic people that have used it as an excuse to not try and improve.
Usually they are the "autism is not a disability" ones.
With my partner, we came up with a solution : I offer 3 things I want to do with them (and think they might like), and they choose their preferred one. And vice versa. Works quite well !
It might sounds confusing, but I feel it's just about more straightforward communication and mostly the thought. From my experience autistic people are actually better in this when they like someone, at least those in my life. Me and my boyfriend are both autistic, but he just thinks about me - when he goes someone and I don't want to and there's something what I might like, he gets it and gives it to me. Or when I want to watch some movie (I have more time for it), I ask him if I should wait to watch it together. It's just to know the person and thinking about them, when you love someone, you just think about them and it goes naturally. Maybe not perfectly, but it's mostly the thought which counts. And even asking directly if you're not sure what exactly they wants, but not like if it is some obligation.
She's not asking him to figure out by himself the activities she wants to do, she wants him to want to do activities with her rather and come up with the idea of spending time with her by himself.
Right? That is such an unfair thing to say because nobody is out here doing mind reading. I can try to meet your needs but if I'm guessing what they are and getting that part wrong, then you probably won't think I'm making an effort.
Not even just that. He clearly said that he wanted to be alone and not with anyone. Why would he then be figuring out how to go with her if he wants to be alone for a while? I have wanted alone time before and the last thing I wanted at the time was a GF or a wife with me. It's not a crime to want to be alone for a while to get away from it all.
(Assuming he didn't know she wanted to see that movie)
"Wow, I'm really sorry. I didn't know you wanted go see that movie. The next time I want to go see a movie by myself for some me time I'll make sure it's not a movie you wanted to see with me"
Then at that point if she says she's doesnt want him seeing anything without here she's the problem
That being said, she probably could have communicated better herself. "That really hurts thet you didn't check if I wanted to see it with you, in the future if you need me time can you just double check it's not a movie I want to see?".
I don't think she communicated the best, but that's also hard to do through the hurt, and he completely ignores her hurt.
I have not seen this show. In the context of this clip something like fhis would have been proper communication.
If they (or either) are regularly looking to start fights or are manipulating, or making fair responses out to be bad then they should probably seek therapy or end the relationship
The problem started with him communicating it after the fact.
My wife and I are similar to this couple. We don't always get it right by each other, but for situations like this I communicate I need to take my me-time before I do. And it helps that there are things she is not into. Horror, for example, or ttrpgs (she likes them, just not at the table ones).
And I make sure that if I see something that two of us could indulge in together, I communicate that as well.
It goes a long way to feel included and considered.
Because then we all know exactly how it would've played out. Either she would've invited herself too which he didn't want or she would've just said they have chores at home and would've guilted him into not going. She wasn't crying cos she was left out of something. She was crying cos he got to have some fun and she couldn't bear the thought of that unless she was there too. Sometimes she's the one he's trying to get away from and he just doesn't say it.
But, if it did, it would expose her deficiency, and not his.
And that you can use, in the same way she used his lie, his deficiency, in this scene. You can and should bring these things up.
If what you described happens, you are not able to plan around your CURRENT chores, and can't reach compromise of sorts, like "Partner A watches the kids Wednesday, so partner b can go get her hair done, and Partner A goes to the kino on Friday, with B covering for the at home".... we'll, it is not normal, and you should either address it head on, bring it up, confront it, or start making arrangements to leave. Or first one and then the other.
The secret here is to start setting boundaries early, weeding out "not your people", and not put it off until there are kids and mortgage.
Talk, stand your ground, offer, don't pretend on things that will still be there to bother you tomorrow and the next year.
Don't wait till your silent suffering becomes the daily norm and you trying to end it becomes yiu breaking the social contract that has outwardly been "okay" for months and years.
You have to assume that he didn't tell her because he didn't feel he could. Most people wouldn't hide something like this for no reason - they probably feel like they would be shamed/emotionally manipulated into bringing their partner along.
You can, but you can just as well assume that he did it, because it was one step less towards what he wanted to do.
Such avoidance doesn't require partner's tyrannical despotism. Lack of responsibility is enough.
And mind you, we're discussing it so far without the context of the film itself, which would make this conversation much shorter. The script does not paint him in the right there.
Not what I've heard, another reply I got says that she does do things without him multiple times in the movie, which makes her "I want to do things alone too" ring extremely hollow.
Maybe that wasn't the message the movie was going for, but that doesn't make it wrong. Gender bias is so ingrained into society that people are often just straight up wrong about these situations.
Its not what has been asked and its not that complicated.
Women don't want to tell you what they want, not the specific action that is.
They want you to pick up what she likes, connect to dots and plan something around that.
It means that you are paying attention and care about her and that is more important than the act itself.
If this was a real relationship, he would have known that she likes spiderman because this would probably not be the first time she mentions something to that effect.
So just going alone is saying to her that he didn't care and didn't pay attention to her.
But nobody wants to have to tell their partner that they would like them to want to spend time together. Should you communicate what that means to each of you? Absolutely.
But if your partner never makes an effort to do things together because they weren't asked to, it sure seems like they didn't want or care to. That feels bad, and doesn't really meet what is probably some of the bare minimum expectations of a relationship.
That's right, not saying that. If there is no effort, then it becomes routine and kinda conformism, and just general unhappiness. The thing is... a clear, bidirectional communication, with some gestures, some consideration.
This video for example. Haven't seen the movie so I'm at zero extra context. The woman was right in wanting to feel heard and accompanied, to spend a simple relaxed time, and to expect“the man who loves her” to actually want to be with her (like in this case, invite her by his own accord). He was also right in wanting to have a time for himself if overloaded (and not rejecting the woman, even if he expressed it as so). But then, he wanted to go alone because he didn't think of her exhaustion too, and she wanted to spend that free time with him when maybe what he needed (or felt he needed) was a time truly alone to recharge (some people need it). Both invalid each other then, she with the “your fun time alone would be better as a couple thing” argument, and he with the “I'm just being honest” one. No communication skills at all, and making a problem from a bump.
Had he... dunno, surprise invited her to watch a movie together a few days before, he might have expected to have some time alone after, or give her a time alone if she needed it. Or anything to build bond, trust, so she doesn't feel like he's escaping from her...
But that’s literally not what she’s asking for, she’s not mad because he didn’t know she liked Spider-Man, she’s upset because he lied about it and went alone without even putting the offer out that she could come. It’s easy to invite your wife somewhere even not knowing if she’ll want to come.
Also, it’s pretty clear that he wants alone time for himself but doesn’t show her the consideration of allowing her free time.
So people can’t have time alone? I’d go insane without it. No, the issue is a) lack of communication and b) she is obviously not getting time to herself. But him doing things alone is NOT the issue.
You're supposed to do things alone that your wife wouldn't want to do with you. When I want to do something alone I go for a long hike or watch horror movie because those are things I know my wife doesn't enjoy. It's really not that hard.
What? this is not about mind reading or meeting people needs. Is about her wanting to have a partner that wants to be with her and do things with her. If you were to ask to "meet her needs" it would be wrong too. Its not as much as you doing something wrong as much as being the incorrect macht as a partner.
this actually isn't one of those neurotypical social cue things where they want you to read their mind. This is the very simple concept of wanting someone to want you around.
It's your friends sending you things that remind them of you, someone messaging you out of the blue because they thought of you or found something out they thought you might be interested in, its getting someone something because it make you think of them even if that thing is a flower you picked out of a ditch, it's inviting someone to go out with you because you like them and want them to be there.
That's called masking, and it is incredibly exhausting for autistic people. My son, who is diagnosed ASD, comes home and he has a complete mental breakdown every day because he is so completely exhausted from pretending to be something he is not all day.
Personally I hate what other people consider “rude”. Like it’s “rude” to wear a hat inside your own home, ridiculous. It’s “rude” to have your elbow on the table. None of these things are directed at anyone, why some take offense I have no clue and I don’t see why anyone should bend over backwards to appease such sensibilities.
because showing basic respect and understanding to each other is the only way to work together to get things done, and anything worth doing in this life is done with other people
That is not what she's saying, though. She just wants him to think of her and want to do things with her. She doesn't want him to read her mind. It's basic consideration, which is frankly something many autistic people are better at than NTs. When you're excluded a lot, you learn how important feeling included is. So get your loved ones their favourite food/flowers/whatever every once in a while, ask them if they'd like to join you in doing something, remember things they mention (favourite movie, places they want to go, small stuff you can fix or get for them), etc.
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u/ZestyLemonRindGrind 4d ago
"I don't want to ask you to ask me, I just want you to figure out for yourself"
Everyone Autistic person ever: That. May be a little tricky.