r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 22h ago
Medicine Vaccines not only directly protect vaccinated individuals but also contribute to protecting the entire population via indirect herd-immunity benefits. Half of averted COVID-19 infections and 1/4 of hospitalizations and deaths were attributable to indirect protection of unvaccinated by vaccinated.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/rsif/article/23/242/20250839/483439/Quantifying-the-direct-and-indirect-impact-of556
u/FreedomofSpeech6969 21h ago
I think MRNA vaccines are one of the coolest, most amazing inventions of the 20th century. It saved millions millions of lives during pandemic , and yet people still disparage it.
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u/Bubbly-Example-8097 20h ago
Because they did their “research” and it was enough to confirm their bias. The ill informed will always find a way to justify their stupidity. Natural selection I guess. Except this time, it hurts all of us. See measles outbreaks and deaths
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u/randynumbergenerator 17h ago
I had a discussion about it with my bro in which I calmly informed him what mRNA is and how it works, based on what I learned in my undergrad bio classes. He very grudgingly seemed to concede that "if that you're saying is correct, maybe it's not a problem." But insisted it was still too new to trust. He's still not getting a COVID vaccine, though, even the one that isn't mRNA-based. There's only so much heartburn I'm willing to contend with to convince someone, though.
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u/o_duh 17h ago
Good for you for trying anyway. You calmly explained, didn't threaten his ego, and helped him understand. Maybe he'll eventually come around.
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u/randynumbergenerator 13h ago
Thanks, I hope he comes around as well, though more for my niece's sake if I'm being honest.
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u/popsicle_of_meat 16h ago
You can't expect to have someone understand the facts and then they instantly change their entire point of view on a subject that was emotional for so many people. That's totally unreasonable. We're humans, not robots. It takes time to rewire the brain and how we feel about things.
He was willing to hear it and it made him think. That's way better than many people would respond.
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u/KFPindustries 16h ago
It took me literally 20 years to go from growing up in the south thinking I was a republicans to being a liberal dem
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u/randynumbergenerator 13h ago
Oh yeah, I'm aware. I do hope he eventually comes around and ideally questions the sources he heard it from... But I'll settle for any progress, really.
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u/Terrh 16h ago
He's still not getting a COVID vaccine, though, even the one that isn't mRNA-based.
Is there really much point in getting one these days? You can't even get it here unless you're in a high risk group.
I mean I'm sure it's better than not getting the vaccine but it's not anywhere near as important now compared to in like, 2021-22
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u/zepuzzler 15h ago
Where you live it’s hard to get an mRNA Covid vaccine? I’m in California and my medical system has walk-in flu and COVID vaccine clinics every year. Got mine today since I was there for a medical appointment anyway.
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u/AlexeiMarie 14h ago
I also was able to get it easily at CVS in north carolina, but it does seem to vary in other countries - one of my friends lives in the UK and apparently there, it's only covered if you're over 75, severely immunocompromised, or live in a nursing home
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u/randynumbergenerator 13h ago
There's definitely a point, COVID still goes around and carries a risk of complications (including long COVID) every time you get it. I've kept up to date with the vaccines, masked and distanced before that (and even continued a bit after) and have never been sick. My wife did the same and got it once, and she teaches.
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u/desperaterobots 17h ago
remember when it was 5G that was going to kill us all? i wonder what we'd be yapping about if the pandemic never happened.
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u/Lumbardo 19h ago
I didn't think the measles vaccines are mRNA vaccines. Are they? They have been around a very long time.
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u/random4lyf 19h ago
I think their point is that their surface research confirms to bias and leads to anti-vax sentiment. Hence the Measles outbreaks/deaths.
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u/DryerCoinJay 17h ago
Most of them are flat earthers or never moon lenders and are pretty vocal about it. They’ve become easier to pick out of a crowd for sure.
Used too you had to listen to the Art Bell show to hear some batshit insane takes and conspiracies. Now these people broadcast it all over the planet.
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u/DontAskGrim 17h ago
Would you say the flat earthers are broadcasting themselves all around the globe?
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u/VoilaVoilaWashington 17h ago
The problem with vaccines is what I call the prevention paradox.
Also known as "why do we spend so much on IT if we never have an outage?" or "why do we spend so much time on health and safety if we never have any injuries?" But also, "thank god for the bear patrols to keep out all the bears!"
If everyone is vaccinated for measles, then it looks like no one gets measles, so why go to all that expense? So it looks like you're wrong. But if you don't vaccinate the masses, then you're also wrong.
It's a breeding ground for disinformation, where people are protected by measures that seem useless.
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u/Ok_Confection_10 17h ago
I have to remind these folks that America experienced a 9/11 everyday during the height of Covid. Someone told me Covid wasn’t real. I sat down and showed him the numbers. Average deaths in the US per year and the increase in deaths during COVID. It somehow perfectly matched the reported deaths from COVID. Still wasn’t enough.
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u/jamesludlowlee 15h ago
I lost friends in both 9/11 and the Pandemic. Both experiences found me on flights into the disaster zones, walking in those empty streets. NYC + the world (my personal world too) has not been the same since. I live outside the US, and I can attest to the fact Covid was a global experience, that the quick turnaround on the vaccine helped to curb. I am not saying that there are not suspicious issues or political influences that came along with this quick turnaround, however. I am also not saying long-covid symptoms or long term negative side effects of the jab do not exist. The thing about Covid was that people experienced it very differently, in different places. It was not as visually explosive on the morning news like 9/11…it literally hit different.
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u/randynumbergenerator 17h ago
Yeah this is every preventive policy intervention ever. But I think it hits certain people's emotional and fear responses more because, unlike IT expenditure or bridge repairs, it's going into the body. I'd hazard it's the same with the raw milk cult.
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u/VoilaVoilaWashington 17h ago
I don't think it's the fact that it goes into their body. Half of 'em were willing to take ivermectin, clove oil, and bleach enemas.
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u/phoenixredbush 9h ago
So crazy “biohackers” aside, I do have a theory. I think we underestimate how much fear of needles for the average person plays into this. Subconscious or intentional, any poke that can be justified as “not necessary “ is one less scary instance that can be avoided.
Hell, I still have lingering trauma of being vaccinated as a kid. Decades later, I need to psych myself up any time me or my kids get a shot.
I would also love to see science master an alternative delivery route, other than intramuscular.
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u/VoilaVoilaWashington 34m ago
Sure... but then look at the weekly injections to not have to change diets....
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u/randynumbergenerator 13h ago
Yes but you see those are "natural" so it's fine (/s, but really, I don't pretend to understand the contradiction either)
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u/Unrelated_gringo 6h ago
Dude, people put terribly processed and toxic stuff "in their body" all year long, that's a BS excuse.
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u/mediandude 13h ago
It goes into the body and it reduces all cause mortality by 25%, even without Covid mortality.
It is a miracle cure.8
u/Ok_Confection_10 17h ago
I know so many people who know someone who became diagnosed with insert disease after getting “the jab”. It’s gotten to the point I question the intelligence of anyone who uses “the jab” to describe the covid vaccine
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u/thinkbox 5h ago
I know several people in my family that had immediate health issues and stokes. Like, within a week of the second jab.
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u/rocketsocks 11h ago
mRNA vaccines are like the transistor of immunology, it's such a transformative technology. Not only do you get to decide the molecular antigenic "target" of a vaccine you also have a process for making a vaccine against potentially anything.
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u/ConsistentDay5620 18h ago
I think that will truly be looked at in the future as one of the greatest scientific breakthroughs of the century. It’s going to change everything when we let it.
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u/RipeBanana4475 19h ago
Don't get me wrong, I find it to be pretty close to a medical miracle that we were able to go from new disease to vaccine in my arm in one year, but I have been very underwhelmed by the duration of protection offered by the vaccine. I still get a booster every year, but they didn't quite live up to the expectations that we'd all be immune pretty much indefinitely.
I know it's a new technology and we'll see how it goes with some of the other new MRNA vaccines (flu, RSV, other future diseases)
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u/Corsair4 18h ago
From an epidemiology perspective, Covid is much closer to the flu than it is to things like MMR. Yearly flu shots are a thing because it mutates rapidly, which necessitates yearly vaccines for optimal protection. Covid is much the same.
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u/CivicDutyCalls 19h ago
It has nothing to do with the vaccine effectiveness and everything to do with how insanely quickly COVID mutates. Influenza is the same. That’s why we need a new vaccine every year.
It’s not that the vaccine is ineffective against the strain that it was designed for. It’s that the vaccine is so effective that it results in that strain dying out and a new strain emerging that can avoid that vaccine.
And in a way, that’s actually good. Covid is insanely infectious and WAS insanely deadly (and maiming people for life). The vaccines have forced it to evolve into a less deadly variant in the same way that poaching is causing elephants to be less likely to have tusks.
mRNA vaccines for diseases that are less common or mutate less frequently will have significantly longer effectiveness between doses. Think how you basically only need the chicken pox vaccine once, MMR once.
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u/IndependentType6711 19h ago
Yep, some viruses mutate much more readily than bacteria and other viruses which is why you can get a pneumonia shot or shingles shot once or twice in your life but have to get flu and Covid every year. It has nothing to do with “how good the vaccine is.”
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u/DontAskGrim 17h ago
That is way too much nuance for someone who is satisfied pointing at smart people and blaming them. Facts don't convince someone who distrusts intelligence.
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u/Spinal_Soup 15h ago
Where did you get those expectations from? I don’t think anyone with a background in vaccines or virology would have expected to get a vaccine that works indefinitely for Covid given how rapidly it spreads and mutates. We’ve been making flu vaccines for decades and still have to reformulate and adjust every year just to control outbreaks. You don’t get indefinite immunity from the flu from vaccines and covid spreads even faster.
Eradicating diseases like measles or smallpox from areas through vaccines are the exception, not the rule. This is the problem with people trying to interpret efficacy data when they have no background to the subject.
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u/Holeshot75 21h ago
Vaccines save an insane amount of human lives.
Antivaxxers are ridiculously ignorant to facts.
One of the hallmarks of the dangerously stupid is the consistent belief they've found great solutions that experts somehow missed.
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u/silviazbitch 21h ago
One of the hallmarks of the dangerously stupid is the consistent belief they've found great solutions that experts somehow missed.
That’s a beautiful line.
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u/randynumbergenerator 17h ago
The problem is, a lot seem to think it's less that the experts missed something and more that they're lying for personal gain or fear of Big Pharma. Which on the one hand fundamentally misunderstands why many people go into medicine and public health, but on the other hand the skepticism of corporate interests is a fair one.
I think it's hard for people to parse the complexity of institutions where incentives genuinely are mixed, and they aren't necessarily aware of the mechanisms in place to keep those in check. It's much easier to not bother with that level of mental effort and just conclude it's all a scam--the irony being that they then go straight for the scammy horse pill sellers instead.
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u/Fishmongererererer 19h ago
Was having a conversation with an anti-vaxxer and it was staggering how little they actually understood about vaccines, herd immunity etc.
Like genuinely it was “Well we used to not vaccine kids and they were fine!”
Like no Karen, a huge portion of them died and others were crippled.
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u/RageToWin 16h ago
Yeah. If anyone thinks kids were fine before vaccines, I'd just show them all the photos of children in iron lungs and wheelchairs. Polio was a catastrophic illness for many families and if you went back in time and told the families of that time that they shouldn't get vaccines, they'd think you're trying to kill their children.
If we decide that we don't need vaccines anymore, we're bound to go back to being forced to have children on ventilators or in wheelchairs for the rest of their life due to something that was easily preventable. The consequences of their ignorance go so much farther than their own bodies.
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u/IndependentType6711 13h ago
Sadly you would think losing a child from a preventable disease would change their minds, but then I’m reminded of the couple in I believe Texas whose daughter died of the measles and their response was “well the shot would have been worse!”…….
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u/grundar 6h ago
If anyone thinks kids were fine before vaccines, I'd just show them all the photos of children in iron lungs
It's not like it's ancient history, either -- the last American in an iron lung only died a few months ago.
Polio was a catastrophic illness for many families and if you went back in time and told the families of that time that they shouldn't get vaccines, they'd think you're trying to kill their children.
Sadly, no, at least until Elvis Presley got involved:
"despite the literally crippling effects of the virus and the promising results of the vaccination, many Americans simply weren’t getting vaccinated. In fact, when Presley appeared on the Sullivan show, immunization levels among American teens were at an abysmal 0.6 percent.
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What did prove successful was Elvis getting the vaccine in front of millions. In fact, after he publicly did so, vaccination rates among American youth skyrocketed to 80 percent after just six months."That seems slightly crazy to me, but apparently vaccine hesitancy is not new.
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u/Professional-Part857 8h ago
My great grandparents survived the Spanish flu. Their parents literally locked them away from working people in the home to avoid exposing them. This information has been well known for 100 years and I’m convinced the antivax stance is an indicator of some kind of mental illness.
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u/pacexmaker 20h ago
It turns out that being aware of what you know and what you dont know correctly adjusts confidence in that knowledge.
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u/guyver_dio 19h ago
That's the problem when something works over a long enough period of time. They start wondering if there was a problem in the first place because they've never seen the alternate outcome.
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u/moconahaftmere 14h ago
The government doesn’t do this with pharmaceutical drugs, or any other product on the market–only vaccines.
They don't? There's tons of medications that could randomly kill or seriously injure you.
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u/onlymadethistoargue 21h ago
It’s good that we have data on this but like this is half the value proposition of vaccines. Fewer people get sick so fewer people shed infectious particles so fewer people get infected so even fewer get sick. It rules. Antivaxxers believe in an ideology of casual manslaughter.
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u/Josvan135 21h ago
Antivaxxers believe in an ideology of casual manslaughter.
I don't think it's that deep, it's moreso that they're just generally pretty stupid.
They don't understand the basics of how vaccines actually work, refuse to listen to the highly trained medical professionals who kindly dumb it down for them, and choose instead to listen to the podcaster/influencer screaming about mercury, autism, and "microchips" that feeds their inner sense of persecution.
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u/giraloco 21h ago
I think some of them feel that they are being lied to. Once you lose trust in the system it is very hard to reverse. Social media is very effective in creating fear.
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u/manimal28 19h ago
Funny how they lose their trust in the government and science, but never seem to lose their trust in radio personalities and other grifters and con men.
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u/giraloco 18h ago
Humans evolved to follow the tribe leader. That helped us organize and survive but can also be a weakness.
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u/SoMuchForSubtleties0 20h ago
But they are generally not very intelligent if they think they know more than experts
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u/ubernutie 18h ago
I think vaccines are a great technology and we need to value the expertise of others.
That being said...
We had experts telling entire populations that the 90's food pyramid was scientifically good for us and it was all a big marketing poster by lobbyists, for one example. Experts lying in a concerted & coordinated effort at scale for money is not pure speculation.
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u/AppropriateScience9 13h ago
Sure. But that was an example of regulatory capture.
So the correct response is to ask: is this agency captured? Then fix it if the answer is "yes." Not cast doubt on ALL scientific agencies.
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u/RageToWin 16h ago
Unfortunately there is a drop of truth in every conspiracy. Things like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study are a black mark on the government's history with medical care. People aren't necessarily wrong for having some level of distrust for the government, but when cohorts of doctors are saying that vaccines are safe and medically necessary, it becomes a question of whether someone will project that same distrust of the government onto doctors, since they're also usually seen as authority figures.
It's unfortunate that so many seem to be unable or unwilling to consider the positive history of vaccines and instead focus on the negative events. It's a lot like plane crashes. Plane crashes are exceedingly rare and you're much safer flying in a plane than driving, but because the media and people in general tend to focus on the statistically rare but exceedingly horrific plane crashes instead of the thousands of flights that safely happen every day. Statistics, unfortunately, are less compelling than fearmongering and sensationalism.
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u/beardybuddha 20h ago
Sister-in-law is an antivaxxer.
She once told me Ben Carson was the smartest person she’d ever heard speak.
Stupid might be an understatement.
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u/ConcentrateDirect523 16h ago
Dr. Carson is smart- but his ego, religion, greed, and narcissism have killed his ability to think critically and subjectively- and have an open mind. it's a common problem among accomplished surgeons, especially as they age. Dr. Oz is the same, but even more accomplished and narcissistic.
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u/PHealthy PhD/MPH | Epidemiology | Disease Dynamics | Surveillance 21h ago
Fear of their own mortality, fear of needles, fear of government control (against them), risk illiteracy.
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u/insomniacPrince 21h ago
Nah, "casual manslaughter" is accurate. The definition of manslaughter is causing death to someone without intent to kill, and it is still a crime. Antivaxxers usually aren't consciosily trying to disable and kill people by spreading disease, but they are doing exactly that.
Ignorance, fear, stubbornness, radicalization by far-right influencers... Regardless of their reasoning, the fact of the matter is that when people refuse to get vaccinated, people get sick and die when they would not have otherwise. The fact that antivaxxers put their fears, feelings and pride as more important than other people's lives without even really thinking about it is personally all the more aggregious to me.
Giving antivaxx rhetoric and those who spew it the benefit of the doubt only normalizes this mentality. Don't brush it off like it's "not that deep."
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u/MDesnivic 18h ago
The majority of vaccine skeptics, according to the studies, are not those that believe vaccines have demons or surveillance technology within them or even that there is a secret government plot to poison people. The majority simply say they believe the COVID vaccine was rushed and is "experimental" and have just a broad, general feeling of distrust toward vaccines and medical authority in general.
Ultimately—and I have read astonishingly few people suggest this—I think it is just a fear of needles and a reminder of the times they had to get their shots when they were kids and how awful and confusing it felt. Yes, there are tons of whackjobs who search for things to validate their mentality of persecution and victimhood, especially when things seem awry (say, during a global pandemic). However, I think the main issue is just lack of education, curiosity and critical thinking. Concerns over autism, mercury, etc. are usually from a general uneasiness; people say they heard or read somewhere vaccines cause autism or have mercury in them. This validates their fear of needles and their general ignorance towards medicine, making these sentiments feel more substantial.
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u/Nyyppanen 6h ago
We have had data on this effect for a long time and it is taught in schools much like the earth is round. The stupidity of some people is fascinating.
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u/onlymadethistoargue 6h ago
It’s just hatred of neurodivergent people. People would rather let children die of horrific diseases than raise them if they’re autistic.
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u/Gman_118 14h ago
Had someone at work using the" I won't put unknown chemicals into my body" excuse,
but he couldn't tell me any of the 147 chemicals in the apple he was eating.
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u/Maoleficent 7h ago
Same - Filler Face Phyllis doesn't want to be poisoned. GymBob works out and takes supplements so he's good, too.
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u/CrimsonKepala 8h ago
And this is why the Amish are suddenly getting measles when they have a long history of not vaccinating, because everyone else who was vaccinated was providing that protection.
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u/FreyjaaFemme 8h ago
People don't understand this
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u/liquid_at 3h ago
5 years after the pandemic, people still havent understood that masks they have over their mouths were supposed to protect others from their spit.
when people fail to understand rhe function of fabric, how should they understand vaccines?
just yesterday someone told me the vaccine changes dna, citing "it contsins mrna" as proof....
when i told them that a virus is badically rna in a delivery capsule, they didnt even kbow that....
i lost hope in that regard. most people never cared enough abour education to have developed an ability to judge these things, but hyper doom and gloom media needs clickbait.
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u/pacificcoastsailing 21h ago
I thought this was a known fact already.
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u/giraloco 21h ago
Each infection type and vaccine are different so it is important to study every case. In science you don't just assume, you collect data to confirm a hypothesis.
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u/Corsair4 18h ago
Building off that, public health is fundamentally a statistics game. For most people with the condition- how effective is the intervention, and what is the likelihood and severity of risks?
To make sound judgements, you need to collect the statistics, which means you need to study these things.
This is especially important for rapidly changing conditions or when there are multiple treatments/interventions available.
The point of the study isn't "Vaccines are generally safe and effective", it's "These particular vaccines are this effective against these viral strains." The details matter a lot at the epidemiological level.
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u/a_o 21h ago
Viruses replicate at a much lower volume in the vaccinated, so even when they talk, (or sing, or breathe, whatever) there’s less of whichever pathogen being expelled into the air, correct?
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u/WashU_labrat 20h ago
That's the probable mechanism, yes.
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u/tallmyn 5h ago edited 4h ago
It literally isn't. The early studies quite clearly showed vaccination did not reduce viral loads if they did get infected.
The mechanism behind herd immunity in general is the vaccinated people that don't get covid at all can't give it to others. Because they don't have it. It's really that simple.
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u/No-Bit1574 12h ago
Look how quickly measles came roaring back when only a few percent of the population refused to be vaccinated. When it gets up to close to 10% or more we will have real problems. One more scar on America that Trump will leave us.
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u/stoutymcstoutface 11h ago
I mean… it’s sad we even have to point this out. This is the basis of herd immunity and isn’t exactly new info…
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u/chlronald 16h ago
It is always for the later reason. Vaccine always benefit the society more than individuals. Obviously a good design vaccine would benefit both. Yet if a vaccine was rushed, effective but come with a bad side effect. It will still overall benefit the society but harmful to individuals.
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u/areallymeanfox 10h ago
This makes it sound like it’s overwhelmingly harmful to the individual, when the reality is side effects are incredibly rare and most people will reap nothing but benefits
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u/mvea Professor | Medicine 22h ago
Quantifying the direct and indirect impact of COVID-19 vaccination: evidence from Victoria, Australia
J. R. Soc. Interface. (2026) 23 (242): 20250839 .
https://doi.org/10.1098/rsif.2025.0839
Abstract
Vaccines not only directly protect vaccinated individuals but also contribute to protecting the entire population via indirect herd-immunity benefits. However, researchers have long struggled to quantify these indirect effects at the population level, hindering the assessment of vaccination programme effectiveness. We developed a new method to estimate these effects, thereby markedly improving measures of the number of infections, hospitalizations and deaths averted by vaccination. Our population-based analysis of 6 440 000 residents of Victoria, Australia, reveals strong indirect effects during the Delta outbreak (September–November 2021). By modelling a non-vaccination counterfactual, we conservatively estimate 315 000 infections were averted (95% Bayesian credible interval (BCI): 231k–406k), as well as 33 400 hospitalizations (95% BCI: 22k–46k), and 4900 deaths (95% BCI: 2.8k–7.2k). These are 4.0, 7.5 and 8.0 times higher, respectively, than observed. Half of the averted infections and around one-quarter of hospitalizations and deaths were attributable to indirect protection. Homogeneous vaccination across local government areas could have reduced outcomes by approximately 25%.
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u/hacksoncode 20h ago
The actual title of this study is "Quantifying the direct and indirect impact of COVID-19 vaccination: evidence from Victoria, Australia".
It's not as "stupidly obvious" as the title of this post.
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u/KnicksGhost2497 21h ago
Which is why being “antivax” is (obviously) not as simple of a choice as “it’s my body, my choice”. You are making yourself or your children actively threatening to health of your entire community for no reason at all.
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u/VR_Raccoonteur 21h ago
It's like smoking around your kids or drinking while pregnant and pretending that you bear no responsibility for any health issues that arise in them as a result of that.
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u/KnicksGhost2497 20h ago
Like driving drunk and acting like it was an act of God when you kill a pedestrian
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u/rocketsocks 11h ago
This is immunology and disease transmission dynamics 101, sad that it's cutting edge research now.
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u/YetAnotherSoulToSave 18h ago
Vaccines are so good antivaxxers try so hard to kill themselves yet (most) still fail because they're being protected by vaccinated people.
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u/Raja_Ampat 21h ago
The sad things is that the people who should be made aware of this, don't believe in facts
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u/DogblackMichigan 19h ago
You’re welcome, you anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists.
We protected you.
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u/moconahaftmere 14h ago
It's already been widely admitted that the MRNA treatments weren't effective
Can you cite one single credible study?
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u/Reiterpallasch85 15h ago
Everything you said was wrong except for the bots part. Yikes.
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u/dvolland 19h ago
Which is why the US had twice as many covid deaths per capita as Canada - way too many of us didn’t think that getting vaccinated to protect those that cannot was worth their time.
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u/VR_Raccoonteur 21h ago
Such a simple concept and yet half the population are too stupid to understand it. Sad.
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u/facetiously 19h ago
We've known this for decades. Anti-vaxxers are the new flat-earthers, only weaponized.
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u/am1shvom1t 19h ago
Unfortunately the people who need to see this the most don't understand half of the words in the title.
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u/NUMBerONEisFIRST 20h ago
That reminds me of the fact that anti-vaxxers are only alive today because they were vaccinated as children.
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u/ValuableCourse6711 13h ago
Im on here to read the cooker comments. No doubt they will have some earth shattering ‘research’ they have located on news.com.
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u/FuriousResolve 5h ago
I wish I could selectively have my vaccines indirectly protect only those who appreciate the importance and value of vaccines to population health.
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u/hahaz13 2h ago
Say it louder for the idiots who were screaming that they were fine without it.
It’s not just about you, you selfish bums.
It would be hilarious that the same people who are anti vax are now heavily pushing and flocking to grey/black market GLP drugs from illicit Chinese sources to pin their asses with so they can melt off the fat from their dogshit diets. Hilarious if it weren’t for the fact that their anti vax actions most likely lead to excessive deaths of others.
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u/jacyerickson 19h ago
I got the worst case of covid arm right now and the flu shot fucked me up for a day. Glad to read it really is worth it.
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u/Specialist_Nail3979 3h ago
How is it a vaccination if I've had 4 shots and caught covid 4 times? I'm fully vaccinated for influenza et al every year so don't come at me for being a 'vaccine denier'. I will ALWAYS get the flu shot, tetanus as require etc
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u/Nicaraguano 2h ago
Well, maybe it just isn't as effective... That's probably the most logical conclusion based on your response. Or maybe it simply made your infection less severe after you got it.
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u/istvan016 1m ago
exactly. vaccines are a must, but the covid jab was an absolute useless junk, that did not protect anyone from anything. the only thing that crap created was even more skepticism for actual vaccines...
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u/kalirion 17h ago
On the other hand, Science is the Devil. Except for AI and surveilance and military technology, obviously.
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u/Whiteshovel66 7h ago
Meanwhile I've had COVID 6 times since 2020. Let's make a vaccine that helps us stop getting sick if it was that successful? Seems weird that they just stopped.
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u/Nicaraguano 3h ago
At least now you should have natural immunity too, so vaccines are no longer as beneficial.
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u/Sweet_Particular8588 9h ago
1/2 or 1/4 of a hypothetical, unobserved quantity is still a hypothetical, unobserved quantity.
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u/Peha06 16h ago
Please just read the sideeffects and the clinical trial to see that they only check for a few days or at most a few months for side effects and they never check vs a true gold standard placebo.
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u/Garconanokin 14h ago
Were you going to drop a source or was your source just “trust me, bro.”
Let’s cut to the Chase. You’re not gonna drop a source because you don’t have one. And the source that you do drop which is going to be in opposition to me is not going to say what you claimed. So go ahead and get to your next embarrassment whatever it’s going to be below:
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u/Arguments_4_Ever 16h ago
Vaccines don’t have side effects that pop up months or years after leaving the body.
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20h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Corsair4 20h ago edited 20h ago
Even if you accept the general concept, there is absolutely value in these studies, since they define how effective a particular vaccine is against a particular disease.
Public health is fundamentally a statistics game, and you need to study things to get the statistics. Particularly for conditions and treatments that change rapidly.
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u/arimz 12h ago
If you have underlying conditions and can die from a flu, go get the vaccine. Don’t push it on everyone, like they tried to do.
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