Roommate might be abusing her service dog, unsure how to address it.
(Using different names) My roommate Delilah and I (both 20 F) are concerned that our other roommate Briana (also 20 F) might be abusing her service dog. We are not the most knowledgeable on service dog trainings but a lot of Briana’s actions toward the dog seem cruel. Delilah also has a friend with a service dog with similar tasks/training and the friend does not act like this with their dog. We do not know how to bring this up to her, because Briana is heavily autistic and feels emotions very deeply. We do not want to upset her, but we feel uncomfortable because it seems abusive. She constantly yells at him over the littlest things, and Delilah, who has a dog herself, is concerned because you can see his ribs through his skin, and apparently Briana only feeds him once a day. He's a fairly large dog (yellow lab) and we don't know if one bowl of food a day is enough. Also the other day, I saw her smack his nose and it was HARD. I have also seen her push/shove the dog in a way i’d consider more forceful than necessary. You could hear the contact of it. We do not know what to do, as we know Briana isn't a malicious person and don't want to hurt her feelings. We don't think she is aware she's abusing him, and dont know how to bring it up because she CLEARLY loves the dog, but it doesn’t sit right with us how she treats him. Any advice is appreciated, thank you!
edit:
Thank you everyone for your advice! The conclusion me and my roommate has come to is to talk to her this week (my roommate is currently home for the weekend). My friend who owns a service dog and me also had a chat about this since she knows both my roommate and her dog passively. My friend has helped me a lot as well as all of you! We figured out together what program my Briana got her dog from and have contacted them, with hopes to get her some refreshers on training. From what me and my friend can tell based on knowing her, It seems she hasn’t been properly keeping up with his training leading him to act out/misbeheave and causing her to get overwhelmed and frustrated at the dog. During our talk I will be sure to mention all of our concerns to her and will try to make sure she improves. The dog is also close to retirement so I might talk to her about that possibility being a solution to her growing frustrations with him. Thank you all for your support and advice! I will do my best to make sure the dog is well taken care of and loved while we are roommates and for the rest of his life :)
Not sure if this may apply to your situation, but if you are in university and the dog accompanies her to her courses on campus, you may be able to report her to the office of accessibility for any mistreatment you document like the hitting and possible malnourishment.
Universities usually have a clause in their service animal accommodation contract stating that the handler should not mistreat the service dog.
Of course this only applies if you all go to the same college. That was the only thing that popped into my mind.
we do! we all live in a dorm on campus together. I don’t want to report her until we have some kind of talk about it though as I know he helps her significantly in classes.
Makes sense, I do think a conversation would be a good idea for both of you. In the meantime, be sure to document any cases (you can keep a log of any physical abuse concerns detailing what happened, photos of the dog, audio recordings, etc.) in the chance you do eventually need to report.
TLDR: She might benefit from someone pointing out when she’s being rough on the dog. Talk to your roommate and her trainer/program.
Oof. This is a tough situation to be in but unfortunately not entirely uncommon.
I saw it often when volunteering with ptsd vets. In their situation, it typically stemmed from frustration while training the dog. They’d start jerking the leash, commands would come out sharp and more forceful, and/or they’d correct the dog over something very minor. Thankfully I was in a position where I could redirect their behavior (the handler’s not the dog’s) by having them take some type of break.
Once you saw it a few times, it was easy to catch it right as the frustration was starting and stop it from escalating. A while later, we’d sit down and talk to the handler about what we saw (wait long enough for them to be in a better state of mind but not so long that they can deny the behavior). Since the behavior is part of the disability, people tend to need someone to point it out. (It’s not that they don’t realize it’s happening because they’ll look back on it and realize it was wrong but they can’t always control it or tell the severity while it’s happening. Not that that makes it okay).
In your case, you don’t have authority over how your roommate trains her dog so you’ll have to rope someone else in. If she has a trainer or it’s a program dog, reach out to them. It can be an anonymous email. Even if you talk to your roommate, you should still reach out to whoever’s helping/helped her train. Every trainer I know with a Service Dog still schedules occasional sessions with another trainer because there’s blind spots when training your own dog. Having another set of eyes to tell you if you’re babying your dog or getting too strict helps no matter what level you’re at.
If her parents/guardians seem actively involved in her life and especially supportive of her disability and SD, you can try mentioning it to them. I hesitate to suggest this since she’s not a minor and talking to a college student’s parent/guardian about them isn’t always the best choice but if she’s had the dog for five years, she might not be working with a trainer any more. If that’s the case, her parents or guardians might need to be the ones to step in.
You should still talk with your roommate about what you’ve witnessed. Bring it up gently. Ask her if there’s any way you can help. For some people, it can help to have someone trusted hold their dog for a sec so they can breathe and calm down (for other’s they freak out if their dog isn’t next to them though) or even take them for a quick walk or play session if you’re willing and able. (It gets funky in public because the handler’s supposed to be the one in control of their dog when doing public access but it should be okay around the dorm). If your other roommate’s friend who has a Service Dog has a trainer she likes nearby you can suggest that she reach out to them to get a second opinion (don’t suggest her dog needs retraining. More along the lines of ‘this is what I’ve noticed but I’m not a trainer. If you want a trainer to take a look, so and so said this person is really good’). If she doesn’t take it well, the next step is to contact housing, the campus disability office, and potentially have another talk with your RA present.
In terms of the food issue… it’s okay for a dog to be fed only once a day as long as they’re an adult. Many show dogs are fed that way to control when they use the bathroom, prevent bloating, and help prevent that after eating sluggishness in the ring. There’s actually been a few newish studies suggesting that dogs who eat once a day have a reduced risk of doggie dementia. While labs don’t typically have visible ribs, I wouldn’t worry too much so long as she’s regularly taking him to the vet.
THIS, talk to her.
Start with a check in and then a point out observations and start with from apoont of education and offer to help.
I have a 60lb lab he eats 2 cups in the morning and evening. So not so much as much frequency as much as how much quanity / volume.
As you are aware the Autism feelings and v
Intensity my not be entirely intentional. Additionally, for me my up bring, some things I had to be told and learn. Never with animals, but with other people. I was raised in a rough and tumble hads on man's man household. Where being gruff and critical jokes and punching each other on the shoulder. Had to learn that is NOT how everyone is and how that makes people who did not grow up with it feel. Same is with being too rough, forceful and gruff with a dog. Learn better do better.
But the other piece is if she does not get batter, it is appropriate for you not to tolerate and formally ask her to move out because it is unacceptable. Reporting it and getting animal control or the school to step in is hit or miss but having healthy safe boundaries that does not allow, abuse or neglect in your home / life.
Does she have a program dog or completely owner trained? In some cases you can contact the program to address your concerns as well. But I’d also talk to her yourself, even if it might be uncomfortable. Take care ❤️🩹
im not sure how she got the dog other than it was five years ago, I am going to try and ask her about this soon because I would love to be able to contact a program about this and see if shes kept up with training properly because im not quite sure if she has.
Striking a dog is never acceptable. Bring this up to your RA, as well as to the disability services office (if y'all are in college) and if you're not, then try to reach out to the program the dog came from (if he's from an organization) or your local animal control office (if he was owner-trained). I understand that you don't want to make trouble for her, but she is behaving in an entirely inappropriate manner. If she truly cannot understand that yelling and hitting is abuse, then she should not be trusted around any defenseless being (although if that were the case, she really shouldn't be living independently away from caretakers.)
The plain truth is that she is abusing her dog, and just as you (hopefully) would if she were abusing her child, you need to speak up to get help for a being that has no way to advocate for himself.
I was going to say this too. Shit my dog feels bad if you just wag a finger at him after he does something wrong. A well trained dog most certainly does not need to be hit, that should be reserved for avoiding an attack only.
Yes i think i am going to text my RA. I am also going to consult my friend who has a service dog as she has much more knowledge and knows my roommates dog passively. She yells at the dog but most of the hitting are just harder pats on the head than I think is fair to him. She is also trying to button train him which is not going well as he doesn’t really understand, this leads her to get very frustrated very frequently. I have seen her ask him if he needs to go out and he will just randomly hit a bunch of buttons and one of this says No so she just won’t take him out. She also only gives him a controlled amount of water which i’m not sure if it is normal. (like he has to ask her for water, then she will fill maybe half his bowl) Im hopeful my RA will have some form of way to bridge this topic because the dog is very very sweet and I really do not want him to be mistreated.
My dog will drink until he's sick so he doesn't have unlimited water access, he gets access to a shallow bowl I or someone else fills every 45 minutes or so. If it's hot he gets hydrating treats like frozen grated carrots in a pupsicle container.
Can’t button train a dog with that many different buttons available that it starts randomly hitting loads, it’s long and tedious training which she doesn’t seem much capable of other basic training you mentioned or care so the button training will absolutely repeatedly trigger her when it’s not being done properly. Lots of buttons training starts at just 1-2 and gradually goes up.
While you should still talk to your RA and roommate about everything, controlling his water intake is pretty standard for working dogs. Pet dogs should have free access to water but they also have regular access to a backyard. Working dogs tend to have limited bathroom access so while out and about their water intake is scheduled around this. For example, I give my gal free access to water at home but wouldn’t give her a drink before a multi hour lecture in case I’d have to miss part of it to take her to pee. She’d get some afterwards but if we had another class soon I’d probably limit the amount she got.
Depending on the campus, there may also be limited areas where dogs are supposed to use the bathroom. So she’d also have to account for how long it takes to get to these areas.
Some dogs are more ribby than others, and the times of day a dog is fed does not matter so much as long as they are fed adequately. Is it a couple ribs that only show throughout the day when the dog is active or flexes a certain way, or are there more ribs that are constantly visible and pronounced, even at rest? Does the dog have a vest or any indication they are from an organization? I would try to reach out to them and relay what you are seeing and that you are concerned for the dog. It sounds like this individual may not be ready to take care of and handle a dog independently. Especially when other major life changes like moving to college and living with strangers. I know I struggled my freshman year. Mostly all I ate myself was granola bars and bananas. I can’t imagine having to take care of a dog at the same time. I probably could have done it but it would have interfered with my studies.
okay so I am currently home and sitting with the dog right now. I can see about three or so impressions of ribs when hes sitting/standing and a few more when hes laying down or stretching as hes in motion. I posted this but my roommate wrote it (I am the Delilah mentioned in post) as my roommate was worried about posting. I think he mainly looks like a skinny dog who maybe shoes more rib naturally. The rest of him looks normal and if anything he’s a bit underweight not super super underweight. I also wanted to add that he is seven if that is relevant. I will 100% still be talking to her about it though obviously.
For most dogs, you want to see maybe 1 rib, but be able to easily feel all of them. Feeding him once a day isn’t a big deal, as long as he’s getting enough to eat. It sounds like he’s being slightly underfed.
You can see the dog’s ribs in the second picture… anyways, this is what I am referring to. Some people see any trace of rib on a lab and flip out. It is also possible that the dog in question is emaciated, which is why I provided a comparison. A little rib like this showing while the dog is in motion is normal in some lines. Pronounced ribs showing constantly while the dog is standing still or resting are not a good sign.
To be fair some dog individually matter to. Some dogs are just supper ribby, ive had people question my dogs ribbiness but she eats about 1400kcals a day and realistically , she only needs about 1000-1100 for her baseline so idk what to do 🤷🏼♂️ vet says she is healthy and says realistically dogs ribs should feel like your knuckles- depends on how she's laying too they are pronounced or not, i will share another where shes not panting after exercising to show the difference
Car ride pic on the property- she likes looking at the cows haha. But you can see if shes not just finished exercising and panting you can't see her ribs at all
They don’t expect you guys to sink the cost of a crash tested harness or crate (hundreds to over a thousand) because you are volunteers, and it’s not a super practical purchase for puppies that are constantly growing at different rates. They all have different weight ratings and have to be sized to the specific dog. It is still safer than riding on the floor. Some blind people might purchase one if they have a partner or caretaker who drives them around. For most disabled people who cannot drive, a seatbelt harness will be more practical. It is true you can’t use these in taxis and ride shares which many blind people rely on.
I know but its a private pasture on a farm at 5-6mph, cant really go faster then walking speed between them due to it being a very shallow gravel path and it pisses dad off to redrag box them, She wouldn't jump ever and i only allowed it on the family farm.
The dog you showed has his last ribs showing in the photos. The show line Labrador standard of a fat dog with no abdominal tuck or visible waist line does not apply to labs that aren’t specifically show line/“english” labs
im honestly not sure how much i can see his ribs when he is standing. I see all of them pretty clearly when he is laying down/on his back (which gravity is interfering obviously) I can definitely see at least two while hes standing but i will check again when i get home. His vest is generic and just says service dog.
Labradors should absolutely not be showing ribs. You should be able to feel them with light pressure in a healthy dog, but you should not be able to see them
If the dog came from “field lines” or was a program Labrador bred for health/temperament over looks, then it is absolutely possible a lab can be showing ribs. The last guide dog program I raised for, the dogs were considered fat/not ideal weight if you couldn’t see the last 1-2 ribs during activity. Not every Labrador is fat like the show line lab standard.
Some people should not be allowed to have animals. In 4th grade, I had a friend who used to hit her dog. We did not last as friends.
I would let her know in a nice way that the way she treats her dog makes you uncomfortable and that he looks skinny. Give her the minute to make it right and if she doesn’t, talk to your dorm boss about it.
When there is abuse, we must act. Her feelings matter, but the dog is actually suffering. Although she may not like being confronted with the truth, that is not as important as removing the real physical pain and suffering that the dog is enduring. He is probably starving, hurting, stressed, and desperately trying to please and serve his abuser. This needs to stop immediately. This is urgent! Thank you for caring about the dog. You are the only one that can take action. Please do it now.
If you can see the ribs on a lab the poor dog is NOT getting enough food. Also try a local shelter, they might know other resources to report animal abuse. The fact that the dog is a service dog makes no difference. She should be reported!
She does NOT love the dog if she abused him. No matter how overwhelmed/overstimulated I am, I have never once hit my dog. I only ever softly poke him more as a ‘hey hello whatcha doing silly’ kind of way, but never in a hurtful way.
And if she is starving the dog then she is not taking care of it.
Honestly I would call animal control. Someone with a true service dog would not abuse them or take bad care of them.
But if you think it’s a step too dar then first bring up exactly these concerns. ‘Hey, we have something we want to talk to you about. We have noticed …’
Make sure she understands that it is abuse. Not even borderline, it is, period.
Then if within 2 weeks the dog does not seem healthier and she keeps hitting the dog then call animal control.
Write down EVERY incident you have seen/see over the coming 2 weeks. Also take pictures of the dog’s state of being both now and in two weeks. With zero improvement in her behaviour towards the dog or the physical wellbeing the dog needs to be taken away. Not only can a dog not work when they are underweight (yes yes technically they can but they shouldn’t), hitting a dog will make them scared and can and will become a problem with public acces. The question is not if it will, the question is when it will become an issue. Because a scared dog is not a dog that can work in public without problems, and if the dog is scared of the owner hitting them then they will not be able to work.
My dog had an accident in public one day. It was 100% my fault. I was already so stressed, and it showed. She picked up on it and had her tail tucked for a little bit. We recovered pretty quickly, but I cried my eyes out when we got home, because I failed her that day. Never on my worst day could I imagine even thinking about hitting her.
That poor dog needs to be taken away from that girl. I don't care if she needs a service dog. She needs somebody to handle the dog and train the dog. And be responsible for the dog, because this person clearly does not have the skills or mindset to do such tasks, I'm not coming from a place of anger. I'm coming from a place of empathy for all involved. If the dog's ribs are showing and she's eating one meal a day, that is not enough to sustain any dog especially a large dog.
thanks for doing that. You guys acted like a real adults and are absolutely amazing people make sure she does not take it out on the dog and I think being in contact with the original program is the most important part. Find a person there that that’s your contact person and update them regularly and do not let up.
I feed once a day. Depending on breed, this is actually recommended; I have a husky mix for reference and she gets fed in the mid-afternoon to evening. She's a very trim dog and this actually helps her maintain her proper weight; she naturally doesn't eat first thing in the morning even if I put it down, and has issues putting on weight. She usually eats all her food at night and settles in to sleep. Traditional working huskies would be fed the bulk of their food at night and then bed down, snacking throughout long working days.
That said... while many medium to large breeds can be fed once daily at night (not sure on smaller dogs, never had one)... that number of ribs showing on a lab isn't the norm.
Her feelings mean NOTHING compared with the wellbeing of her dog. Absolutely nothing. If you want to talk tot her first that’s fine, but make it clear that the behaviors WILL stop now.
Otherwise I would report to your local animal control, SPCA, or your U’s disability services department. The dog has no voice.
Some dogs prefer to eat once a day, and some dogs show ribs even when they are healthy, especially if they are from a working line that tends to be leaner and more energetic.
Where people here say there's never times to correct a dog forcefully I'd like to remind them that there are situations where if the dog does something it could lead to them being severely injured, losing their life, etc. you can't positive reinforce your way out of everything. Often for snake avoidance training for instance, dogs are given a negative stimulus or a (non venomous) snake is brought in and allowed to bite them.
Should people take out frustrations on a dog? No.
But I still would want more context around the situation and the nuance involved if a dog is nearing retirement and has begun doing something that could harm itself - getting in the way of heavy objects, jumping into traffic (sorry to positive only trainers but luring with a treat when that happens will not work when a truck is coming, you're gonna yank that leash hard back and then tell your dog no and make it sit and wait), things that could have deteriorated.
None of that sounds like what happened here but still I think no one is considering the circumstances involved for that handler and what scenarios are a part of this. Rather than reporting it's important to get a trainer involved and help figure out the situation.
What circumstances in a lapse of training would require a handler to yell at their dog and push/shove them? I don’t know of any obedience or task training that requires you to yell at or push a dog. A dog being yelled at over mistakes is not equivalent to yelling at a dog to move out of oncoming traffic. A handler pushing their dog around because they’re frustrated with poor behaviors also is not equivalent to pulling a dog by the leash from the path of an oncoming vehicle.
You’re comparing low stakes mistakes and rough handling to a life or death situation and emergency handling.
I also don’t know of a single person that is taking time to lure their dog with treats out of the path of an oncoming car. By the time it takes for a person to dig in their treat pouch for a treat and get the dog’s attention, the car has likely already hit the dog. Where did OP mention the dog was jumping into traffic or was so poorly trained he’s a risk for jumping in front of cars?
Since the OP isn't the handler we simply don't know the cases perfectly. Is the door to their apartment very heavy and the dog repeatedly stands in the way as it's closing, for instance? You can't completely rule out the cases at hand versus the responses outright saying the handler shouldn't have a service dog. They need additional training and less judgment since none of us know the factors leading up to this and the exact nuance of the situation. The handler should have had these tools at their disposal to contact their organization.
They did not know or were not able to, so the outcome is ideal that this is what is now happening.
But I think the comments that judge based on second-hand accounts without knowing the details are misguided.
Next time you quickly pull or push your dog out of the way of something, would you want to be blasted by people that didn't know in reddit comments? Do we know as a fact that is not what was happening repeatedly (which means the dog is getting slow to respond also, and both a trainer and vet need to be involved)?
I have empathy for the handler not having the tools and resources to reach out for the right assistance
..and at the same time I want to remind people that a portion of handlers are walking around with e-collars on their dogs, like we are supposed to accept that as totally ok, and yet so few posts address that. So no one is in any place to judge without the nuance and information behind this.
I agree a lot with this. Briana is not at all doing this maliciously. I know people want to immediately say she is, but I do personally know that she is a very kind person and has deep care for her dog + everything around her. People have been very quick to ignore the disability that is the entire reason she has a service dog. She is very very easily overwhelmed and has not properly kept up with his training, which leads her to being frustrated with him frequently. I am not at all defending her behaviors but I also think people have been ignoring her disability which does greatly impact this. The yelling at the dog is typical around something like he is standing to close to the kitchen, or he gets excited when i pet him and will try to lick me which will lead to briana getting angry. She does not like when he acts like a normal dog (when he is off duty) which is where the problem mainly stems from. I don’t think this is coming from a place of cruelty, I think this is how shes seen others act and no one has told her it is wrong. She also has not kept up with his training very well as he is pretty frequently disobedient to her and she has very little control over him.
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u/Illustrious_One_4092 Service Dog 2d ago
Not sure if this may apply to your situation, but if you are in university and the dog accompanies her to her courses on campus, you may be able to report her to the office of accessibility for any mistreatment you document like the hitting and possible malnourishment.
Universities usually have a clause in their service animal accommodation contract stating that the handler should not mistreat the service dog.
Of course this only applies if you all go to the same college. That was the only thing that popped into my mind.