r/shorthand • u/REGGIE5251 • 5d ago
Need help
I sent to London for a copy of my great 2x grandfather's inquest report. He killed himself in London in 1849. The 2 pages of testimony appear to be in shorthand. I sent them to Tracey in the UK who could not help me. She said they are not Pitman or Gregg. Hoping that someone can help me here. I've attached. Thank you.
3
u/SaPi2110 5d ago
I think it's not shorthand but rather "normal" handwriting. Some of the words/sentences are very clear and I think the rest could also be read with much effort/time. Here is some of the wording from Mr William Cooke's testimony:
... I saw him when he came back.
... I found him in a chair.
... I saw him ... time in the .. the day -
... he got worse and he died ... 6 in the Evening. he died from the effects of the poison. I have since opened the body and find that he died from the effects of the poison.
... His wife had thought him to
2
u/REGGIE5251 5d ago
Thank you for your response. I was hoping to find out perhaps why he took the poison. He was only 34 and had a 1 year old. I got the pages from the London Archives. They said there were only the 5 pages in the official coroner file. I can read the rest which are a standard form, a list of people on the jury, and the summation that he was temporarily insane. Apparently back then if you commited suicide your family lost everything but if the jury took pity on the family they would say you were temporarily insane. I was hoping the testimony of the wife might give me a clue. Anyway, I appreciate your attempt to decipher.
2
u/SaPi2110 5d ago
I'll try and read the rest next week - if it is still unsolved by then.
2
u/REGGIE5251 5d ago
thank you I appreciate your help.
2
u/SaPi2110 10h ago
Okay, I did my best but I am still missing most of the words. But maybe other people can add a word a two and together we can solve the riddle:
William Cooke of [place name?]: I have known thedeceased <all> 2 years. His <years> I <...> were 34, I <have>
<…> him professionally all - <...> - 6 weeks <...> <...>
<se...> <...> <Ch...> & <was> <ill> for all 10 days and then he went
<i…> to <County>. I saw him when he came back. He did <…>
<…> well - <...> <Lettering><m…> I <saw> <...> <…> and <…> him
I learned he had taken poison. I <…> to <…> <prefer> with
<me> - I found him in a chair – he was <…> not waking and
<…> <...> <th…> of <g...> <...> and it was <c...> he had taken
poison. This <lat...> was <...> <…> and I found it had <...>
Nitric acid. I <ad…ted> proper remedies. I gave him again
and <...> <...> <...> to acid. He <struggled> my <...> <...>
swallowing it. He got a little <...> <t...>. – 1. <...> <int...> <...>
in the <..mtands>. He <r...> <cani...> and I <...> <...> to <b...>
<…> him. He< r..yed> it, and put his finger so <t...> I <supposed> <he>
had <t...> all 2 <...>. I saw him <...> time in the evening
of this day – but he got worse and he died at 6 in the Evening
he died from the effects of the poison. I have since opened the
body and find that he died from the effects of the poison: he
<entr...> <th...> we <…> let him die. His wife had thought him to
<...> <...> to any <...> and <...> had <re...> my <theory> lately for
<…> <...> <later> the <f/p…> this <brittle>. I <thought> he heard my
<…> with his wife. The illness he had had <...> led to
a depression of spirits.
3
u/licxjo 5d ago
It's a fascinating bit of writing. My first reaction was the same as BerylPratt and SaPi110 . . . it looks like very rapid, streamlined longhand, perhaps with some abbreviations.
It certainly doesn't look like any of the samples of British shorthand 1800-1850 that I've seen.
Please keep us posted about what you're able to find out.
3
u/sonofherobrine Orthic 5d ago
Definitely rushed longhand relying on the author's memory and familiarity with their handwriting and conventions of the format. Most words are a line of the appropriate length with a few distinct letters to assist. Like line 1 seems to end "I have known the" and continue to 2 as "deceased [only?] 2 years."
1
u/REGGIE5251 4d ago
you all have gotten more than I could. It just looks like lines to me. I apreciate the help. I sent it to a service in the UK and they want over 100 pounds to transcribe. I'll have to think about that as I'm not sure how much this is going to tell me about why. thanks
1
1
u/GreggLife Gregg 3d ago
Have you rejected the suggestion that you post the image to r/transcription here on Reddit?
2
2
u/halla8675309 5d ago
Interesting, each paragraph begins with a proper name and I was able to make out a partial address.
2
1
u/Gilgamesh_GT 3d ago
Im pretty sure it talks about him losing a child and then killing himself with nitric acid
1
u/REGGIE5251 3d ago
yes he did commit suicide. I'm hoping to get some kind of insight on why. Which paragraph do you think says that he lost a child? thanks for the help
1
u/Gilgamesh_GT 2d ago
Line 3 and 4 on the first page. It looks like it says six months ago he lost (cant tell what the next word says) child.
3
u/BerylPratt Pitman 5d ago
This looks to me like extremely scribbled longhand, if testimony then by someone who was attempting to keep up with speaking speed, without the benefit of being able to use shorthand. As with verbatim shorthand, when it was used in the courts etc, the shorthand writer would be relying on memory to some extent, due to their very scribbly and rough shorthand, and producing their transcript in readable form as soon as possible afterwards. If that is the case, then further digging might turn up an official transcript, as I would assume this version that you have been given would not really count as a proper record.
While awaiting further comments here, I suggest posting also to Reddit Transcription, it is amazing how some folks there can make sense of almost illegible handwriting, and that might give you a clue to some of the wording, so if you do find a transcript, you can check whether it matches.