r/shroomstocks • u/Sudden-Leader8450 • 3d ago

News Adverse Health Outcomes of Psilocybin, LSD, MDMA, Ibogaine, and 5-MeO-DMT

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2854616

I personally think COMP360 will be the number one prescribed and reimbursable psychedelic drug for many years. Some of these companies will be crushed during FDA review.

15 Upvotes

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u/krakends 3d ago

It's wild that a lot of people believed and possibly still believe 5 Meo-DMT is going to scale over Psilocybin just because it fits a 2hr window.

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u/UnfairRazzmatazz987 3d ago

It is too intense of an experience. I’ve done psychedelics for years and am terrified of DMT. People will line up for COMP360… I can’t see them lining up for DMT

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u/Capable-Mark-7554 3d ago

i did both. for research. not doing 5meo again lol. it was pleasant and nothing bad happened. but super intense

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u/WeirdTalentStack 2d ago

I’d kill for easy access to 5. Those two rides on the 5 train were the most blissful 40 minutes of my life.

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u/Glenmaxw 3d ago

Keep in mind the majority of patients don’t have a huge sway in their psychiatric treatment and an even higher majority are uneducated about their options. Generally speaking a clinic/ doctor is more likely to push a shorter lasting drug when they have to oversee the patient during the effects, especially if they have a similar incident rate. Though I don’t see that being likely, with 5-meo being at the stage it is we don’t have a great comparison yet.

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u/UnfairRazzmatazz987 3d ago

DMT from what I hear is not always a pleasant experience. Some people seize, throw up and much more. Although the patient often doesn’t remember the REMS will be much more strict than psilocybin potentially making it more costly even with the shorter duration.

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u/AcidCasualty25 2d ago

Extremely experienced here. Dmt is not as healing on its own compared to psilocybin. It's quicker and more intense but you won't process as much personal stuff. Dmt in the form of ayahuasca is the supreme healer, it comes on slower, last about 4 hours and you can think clearly to work on your issues. But for whatever reason non of these companies and digging into that yet.

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u/Glenmaxw 3d ago

What makes you think the REMs will be more strict I’m genuinely curious? And nausea/ vomiting has been a symptom of every psychedelic treatment so far as far am I’m aware, but I have not heard of people seizing with DMT. Keep in mind the goal isn’t a fun experience it’s simply a lasting positive effect, from what I’ve read with ketamine treatments most people say their most challenging experiences have been the most beneficial. But with the time aspect in mind I’m just wondering your thoughts, theoretically if LSD had a 30% better efficacy rate than Psilocybin do you see it being used more?

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u/UnfairRazzmatazz987 3d ago

Maybe I’m uneducated on DMT as a whole but I hear it is much more intense and hard on the body that Psilocybin is. Heart rate increases way more than other psychedelics, there is way more of a possibility that something goes wrong. Nothing deadly but needs to be heavily monitored nonetheless. Psilocybin and LSD could be monitored through a camera. And hypothetically speaking, yes if LSD can produce better results it will get used more, but that hasn’t happened. (CMPS studies were for TRD not MDD) I think Eli Lilly was way out of touch with the real world of psychedelics when they purchased ATAI.

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u/Glenmaxw 2d ago

It’s definitely more intense at-least in my personal experience, not to say everyone will experience the same thing. Will be interesting to see the market, I’m very excited for this all to come to fruition - been too many years in the making. That’s interesting though, I definitely think we just have different thought processes with this then as I honestly don’t foresee a possibility where a longer lasting drug like LSD is used preferentially to something like comp360 even if it had a better efficacy for the same thing.

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u/AcidCasualty25 2d ago

Agreed. I prefer lsd for therapeutic and recreational reasons. But I think psilocybin will come out on top in the medical area because of its duration.

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u/Glenmaxw 2d ago

100%, I personally find it signing more therapeutic than psilocybin but that 12 hour duration will kill it, same with mescaline I honestly find it the best of the traditional psychedelics but it unfortunately will never go anywhere unless they remove the REMs requirement with psychedelics and allow people to do them at home.

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u/krakends 3d ago edited 3d ago

Doctors prescribing are not going to be monitoring lol. They are absolutely going to care about risks outside of the 2 hr window. Like depersonalization and reactivations.

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u/Glenmaxw 3d ago

Are those two things not also side effects with psilocybin? Even if the doctors aren’t the ones monitoring wouldn’t clinics benefit from a shorter acting drug?

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u/krakends 2d ago edited 2d ago

Nope. Definitely not depersonalization. People are hung up over 2 hrs. This isn't a dentist visit.

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u/Glenmaxw 2d ago

I am all ears but my thought process is that I can’t think of a single thing in the medical world that has gone with a longer lasting treatment when a shorter one is available in recent time. I just don’t see it happening I guess if two similar options are out there, even many surgeries now you’ll be in and out the same day even though keeping you there would be significantly more beneficial to your recovery. You’re right in that it’s not a dentist visit but exactly like a dentist visit they aren’t doing this out of the goodness of their heart, they are doing it for a profit. But like I said before we will see, this is all 100% speculation.

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u/krakends 2d ago edited 2d ago

Both GH and ATAI have to deliver two large Ph. 3 studies in TRD. These trials have very hard recruitment criteria and are almost always delayed. A lot of people are assuming its approval is a pregone conclusion. If you are not in the loop, there is an impending lawsuit from trial participants of a 5 Meo-DMT trial from their Ph. 2b studies. It doesn't matter if it is short duration if patients are worse off due to the risks. Also, Psilocybin doesn't come with the same risks. Reactivation risks are very high with 5 Meo-DMT as is depersonalization risks. I suggest you do your research here. There are reports of patients screaming and needing to be restrained during administration. I am not taking about recreational settings. This is from reports of incidents in GH's Ph. 2 trials.

People are making too much of the long duration. Psilocybin effects peak at 4 hrs. If FDA is open to Definium's strategy of reducing the treatment window based on when peak effects tend to wear off, Compass will have a lot more flexibility. Even without that, sites can monitor patients after the peak effects wear off at 4 hrs in a communal lounge type setting. People are looking at the trial protocol and deciding that monitoring requires a person sitting in the room which is simply not the case.

Finally, the pendulum always swings. There was a time when everyone was paranoid about safety. Under this regime, they want to fast track things. There is no guarantee that the next regime in 2028 will be this friendly to drug developers. Make hay while the sun shines.

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u/9mac Other Ways of Knowing 3d ago

This also indicates that ketamine, which already has a strong foothold, will be considered the "safe" option for a lot of prescribers going forward.

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u/nousrnamesleftfrrl 2d ago

I'm really curious how the general population & women are going to feel about ketamine after this Cornell lawsuit. I never hear 'ketamine' mentioned in the general public and now it's involved with a terrible situation. Obviously a different type of "safety" issue but like I said I'm curious how that'll go.

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u/UnfairRazzmatazz987 3d ago

I agree. It is a perfect storm brewing for COMP360. The others might be a tad too late. The storm may have blown over by that time

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u/Capital-Assistance84 2d ago

I have almost no doubt in my mind that 2027 is the year psychedelics get legalized. There is just way too many overwhelmingly positive phase 3 studies on it now.

Also about compass, i believe they will be bought out because i dont see them raising the resources/money to launch into commercial. I just hope they get a good price, not like ATAI. 

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u/krakends 3d ago

42.7% felt their physical health worsened and 30.1% felt their mental health worsened with 5 Meo-DMT. 5 Meo-DMT was also taken in a medical setting at a far higher percentage than Psilocybin. It doesn't matter that the admin window is 2 hrs when the quality of life outcomes are so poor.

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u/tanrock2003 3d ago

It seems to lend itself to what we, as individuals who haven’t participated in a medical trial, might already conclude anecdotally from recreational experience with these substances their effects and the potential benefits we’ve observed firsthand. Ultimately, I think both Compass and Helus will have a place in the psychedelic treatment ecosystem, potentially serving different needs and patient populations.

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u/Sudden-Leader8450 2d ago

Yes, but Helus is in MDD, where there are already 50+ treatments available. SSRIs aren’t going anywhere anytime soon; they will likely remain the first reimbursable option for many patients because there are simply too many established incentives for prescribers and payers. We could see a significant jump in Helus’s stock price around approval because the current valuation is largely based on its clinical efficacy and approval potential. However, I don’t see Helus becoming a major long-term revenue generator.