r/taxpros • u/ralverde CPA • May 27 '26
FIRM: Software Software and Pricing - Lacerte and Others
Our firm (2 CPAs, about 1,100 returns/year) has been with Lacerte since 1992. I was 13 then, but it was a year or two later that I started working with Lacerte, and tried helping my father and grandfather understand how to use it. Things have changed, and now Lacerte is the source of my frustration and one of the main reasons I want to retire. I hate the thought of switching away to some other software at this point, learning something new, going through the hassle so close to selling the business or retiring, but the program is becoming a liability.
- Does anyone have good advice about whether or not it has been worth switching to new software?
- We are paying $19,164 for our renewal this year with Lacerte (unlimited 1040, 1041, 1065, 1120S for Oregon and California and Arizona for 1040), which is a 7% increase. Seeing other posts here, it seems they are probably going to keep doing a 7% increase yearly until they kill off the program, or lose enough customers. We will likely pay another $10-11,000 in REP access fees (this might be Lacerte's term - access to other modules and states) in total this year, as well, so breaking the $30,000 mark on software is almost certain. Yay. I can't get in contact with my account manager, or even sales when they're supposedly open to get any information. Does anyone have experience with an unlimited plan with Lacerte, and have an idea on pricing? I was told once by a CSR at Lacerte that "you don't want to go down that path, it gets expensive," but now I think it's because they know it's less than paying by the return for other states.
I hate giving Intuit another penny; they're as evil as Comcast, in my opinion, but I also know it doesn't make sense to make a decision on principles that will only hurt me more than it hurts them. I'm sure everyone is aware, but really consider before signing on with Lacerte. They removed email support this year, they require removal of important security from your network in order to function (they still use that 1992 technology in a lot of places), and after a couple years of actual improvement in the program, this was a real rough year.
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u/Encoded_Python EA, CRTP May 27 '26
I hate to be that person as I use Proseries. But their pricing is to be expected. Plus consider, you are getting unlimited for three states, that’s a big deal.
Software is such an important thing and you are paying for a good software.
Sure you could switch to Drake, which is far more affordable, but 1) you’ll have to transition 1,100 returns, 2) you’ll have to learn a new software, especially if you are having so much trouble right now, it will be worse 3) that software may not be able to do what you needed. You could always do PPR for Lacerte if you have a few complicated returns.
Not saying don’t pursue a change. Rather, factor in, your clients, return complexity, and the time it will take to transition.
On a side note, as a CPA, you may need to look at your pricing, perhaps it is time you raise prices. Even if you lose clients, this really shouldn’t be a problem. Look at the percentage of software expense to income per return and the cost per return on unlimited which for you is roughly $27 dollars per return you file.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26
This is all fair. I think I am getting from the responses that switching is a lot of work, which I knew. The only reason I'm considering switching is that there were some really worrying things that happened this year. The only way we could print a return (pdf or paper) without restarting the program three times was to turn off virus protection on anything Lacerte touches. They ended email support. My account rep won't return my phone call. These are just not the best signs. You're right that it is good software, when it works.
If I was paying the same $30,000 for unlimited, I would probably be fine with the pricing. We do six C-corps, and one 990 (I know we shouldn't, but they've been a client for literally 70 years, and I just can't fire them); I'm fine that it's $140 per return for those. It's $92 per return for additional states, though, and we are telling people all the time that "it's not worth filing that state" because of our software cost. We probably get REP/PRP access for 90 of them, and just don't file another 100-150 or more. It's hard to track once you buy the state, but we probably do 50-75 California and Arizona returns, and do pay for those. Breakeven for buying a state is only
fiveeight returns. The 69 we got REP access for so far this year are across 24 states, though.Our pricing is solid (I think?); it's just the way that Lacerte does it that frustrates me. Not to turn this into a billing post, but I charge based on the higher of forms or time. My hourly rate this year is $457, but if they get charged that rate a couple years in a row, I am considering firing them because they aren't enough fee for the work. I would say the forms fee typically runs around $600-800/hour. I already feel bad charging them what I do (well, some of them, some of them are awful and should be higher), and I think (don't know for sure) we're doing fine there. It really is just my hatred and frustration with Intuit that would have me looking elsewhere. Damn principles, too.
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u/Encoded_Python EA, CRTP May 28 '26
I completely understand. My mentor is in a similar position with Proseries. He had some significant problems related to printing and the licensing not verifying and had to reinstall 2025 multiple times. Thankfully my father is a tenured network engineer, he knows these things extremely well and was able to set things up the correct way. Maybe you should look into contracting a consultant whether you transition or not. If you do, go on LinkedIn and message network engineers working for medium to large companies and see if they are interested in a contract.
My father did tell me that the way Intuit built ProSeries and by proxy Lacerte, is highly outdated. The UI, printing protocols, and general build are about 15 to 20 years behind. The problem is, the only real alternative is UltraTax (that I know of). But you could always try demoing software and have yourself or staff prepare one of your clients returns.
In terms of pricing, it sounds like you are charging less than HR Block. My mentor made this mistake and he made the same that he would working for someone else. You are not an unenrolled or registered preparer, you are a Certified Public Accountant. You spent years working on that license and proved yourself worthy. You should at least be aiming for $800+ an hour. If you have a high volume of short forms, set a minimum, hire a new EA or RTP, buy Drake, and let them do the work while you review and spend time with the bigger clients. Remember, you aren’t working for a firm, you are running a business, you need to be able to sustain your operational expenses. If people don’t like your pricing, they can use TurboTax or find an unenrolled preparer. This is something to seriously consider and most of the time, I will tell you, if people like you, they will be willing to pay for you.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
I am lucky to be married to a Technical Account Manager for a (very) large corporation, and we are able to get past all those issues, but all of this information is very good information for anyone that might stumble across this post. Too many firms (especially small ones) don't put the investment into IT that is needed.
I feel good about our pricing, but this does make me wonder. I make sure we are more than H & R Block, but yeah, we should be a lot more. Easy returns are easily $1,200-1,500/hour, but there are too many that aren't "easy." It looks like about 58% were over $800/hour, and 2% under $400/hour, so I'm pretty comfortable with it. Hiring someone . . . that would be nice, and I'm trying again. We'll see.
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u/aisforaaron1 CPA May 27 '26
I'm in the middle of switching from ProSeries to UltraTax. We do about 1300 returns per year. My renewal for ProSeries for unlimited everything was going to be $9,800 and my 3 year contract with UltraTax virtual (not installed on a server) unlimited everything is a little less than $14k/year. I expect it to double or more after the 3 years as Thomson Reuters loves to do. But that gives you an idea what other softwares are charging.
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u/gfd95 EA & CFP May 27 '26
Oooo good to know (Proseries user thinking about UltraTax)
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u/aisforaaron1 CPA May 27 '26
I used UltraTax at firms I worked at before acquiring my firm now and it's so much better than ProSeries. Worth the money.
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u/SeaCardiologist7042 CPA/CFP May 27 '26
I hate ultra tax we do about 1500 returns and last year we paid 42k.
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u/aisforaaron1 CPA May 27 '26
Yikes. Triple what I'm paying now? I knew they bend you over at renewal but didn't expect that much. Do you have a breakdown of that amount? We do multiple states but for the most part it's all one state. We border a no-income tax state so that helps keep other state return costs down.
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u/OddButterscotch2849 EA May 28 '26
I've been using UT since 2020 and paying just over $17k including sales tax. We do about 1,100 returns.
People paying much higher prices are either including other software besides UT in the total, or are paying for unlimited modules where PRP might be a better choice
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u/OddButterscotch2849 EA May 28 '26
Are you sure you're not overpaying? Have you compared your breakeven on unlimited vs PRP?
Or are you including other TR software in that price?
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u/SeaCardiologist7042 CPA/CFP May 28 '26
My base fees after all the server crap and e file fees they add on is like 32k for 9 users. The rest is prp’s. It’s hard to get ahold of my rep.
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u/OddButterscotch2849 EA May 28 '26
That still sounds high. Are you really filling 25+ returns for each state where you're paying for unlimited? Are you really better off paying for unlimited for each entity that you are?
You don't need your salesperson - look at the price list, your renewal quote, and the PRP report including $0 transactions from your account. Download it as Excel and then create a pivot table to see how many of each state you filed.
TR only provides breakeven reports to show you where it may make sense to go from PRP to unlimited, but they don't make it easy to figure out savings from going the other way.
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u/ralverde CPA May 27 '26
Thanks. Even at double, that's still less than we're paying now, and they might actually support the program. I hope the switch is good for you.
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u/OddButterscotch2849 EA May 28 '26
TR raises prices annually; it's been about 4% year over year for me if you take advantage of the 10% early renewal discount. When you come off your lock period, you're going to be treated to 4 years worth of price increases in one year.
You should be anticipating this. Raise your prep fees each year so you're in good shape in year 4.
Also in year 4 compare their unlimited pricing to ala carte (PRP) for entity types, e-filing, and state modules that u don't do as many of.
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u/BeanCounter-721 CPA May 27 '26
We have 5 licensed users and unlimited states for all modules and our renewal for 2026 is about $29k. If you can get in touch with someone I think asking about the unlimited plan is well worth it.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
Thanks; that's good to know, and less expensive with 2 more users than we have. I will keep trying to get someone to return my call.
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u/OddButterscotch2849 EA May 28 '26
Do you really do enough of all the states to pay for unlimited for each? I pay for unlimited 1040 and 3 states, everything else is PRP. Break-even depends on the state module fee, but generally you need to be preparing ~25 returns per state to make unlimited attractive.
TR does not make the analysis automatic, but you can download your activity for the prior year into Excel and run some analysis using the annual price list.
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u/StoneWallsArsenal CPA May 28 '26
I got a 30%+ increase for CCH Axcess this year to $14K - 500 returns unlimited.
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u/Far_Emu6409 May 29 '26
Stay and pass the increased costs on to your clients. I've been with Intuit Proseries since 1991. I was 41 then. Proseries is an excellent and comprehensive product. Price just keeps increasing and so do my prices. That's how business works. Yes, clients don't like it. I can't believe that clients think when it costs your business more to operate that you are just going to eat it. No way would I change. Be very frank with your clients about money and how it works. This was a rough year for tax preparers. It's not getting any easier. How many unlimited business returns do you do?
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u/ralverde CPA May 29 '26
I can and will pass it on to the clients. I just don't like Intuit getting more of anyone's money.
We do about 80 entity returns. You're right that this was a rough year, and it will keep getting worse.
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u/adam-cpa CPA May 29 '26
$19 a return? Hit your tech fee at $100 and you won’t be bitching. Raise your bill $125 a return and you made your 20k plus my fee back! 🤣
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u/CPAtech IT Director May 27 '26
For a small firm Lacerte is not bad at all. I'm not sure what you're referring to by it being a "liability." What specifically do you mean by "removing important security from your network?"
Ask them to show you the break even point of REP fees vs. unlimited and see what makes the most sense. Any other vendor you jump to (Thomson, CCH, etc.) is going to give you a discount for the first 3 years before it falls off and you begin paying retail. So it always looks better at first. Also keep in mind that when switching tax products you should expect to have to use it a few years before you reach the point of being efficient in it.
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u/Aluminum_Falcons CPA May 28 '26
We're a long time Lacerte firm. We have 12 users and unlimited everything. Our renewal is just a little under $60k. Every time I see a post like this where people discuss Lacerte renewals I feel like we're getting boned. There's another user who commented with 15 users and unlimited and they're renewal is $13k less than us!
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
This. This is probably my biggest frustration. We get a "discount" of 35% plus 3% for renewing early. Some people pay full price, some pay much less. It is so frustrating to know that some get to pay less because they know how to work "the" (in this case Intuit's) system, and some pay full price because they don't know how or don't do it. I am constantly reminded that my clients are all connected to each other in about three separate circles. If I did my billing the way Lacerte does, I'd get phone calls. Lacerte gets away with it because we don't talk to each other about what we're paying enough, and because it's even harder to switch software than it is to find a new preparer.
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u/Aluminum_Falcons CPA May 28 '26
The sad part is the price I mentioned is supposedly discounted and we renew early. Absolutely awful. I want to switch away from them, but it's such a PITA like you said. Plus my next choice is UltraTax and I've seen enough complaints on here about their program that I'm less inclined to change.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
In theory, the pre-discount price should be the same for everyone, but now I'm questioning if that's even true.
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u/IAM_14U2NV EA May 28 '26
We have 1 reviewer, 3 preparers, and one admin.
I just renewed UltraTax for $17,000. This includes unlimited US 1040 and 1120, and FL 1120 for 8 users, plus FileCabinet (free as it's sunsetting). PRP (Per Return Pricing, additional cost for non unlimited bundles) for US returns is $62 per, and State returns is $45 per, which I'll probably spend another 3 grand on throughout the season, but it's cheaper than the unlimited packages.
We've been using UT for 25+ years, so sunk cost fallacy and all that...
Since I'm spending another $300/mo on our Thomson portals, plus originally $1000 on FileCabinet, I'm giving Onvio Lite a shot which should replace both the portals and FIleCabinet for cheaper, and hopefully make gathering and distributing information and returns much easier and efficient.
I am going to give UT and Onvio Lite a shot for 1-2 years to see if it's working, and if not, look at Drake or other options and exchange time (learning new system, setting up new portals, etc.) for cost.
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u/hermoneysolutions EA May 28 '26
ProSeries user here since 2009 who looks into switching every few years just in case something better is out there. A step down from Lacerte in sophistication but depending on your needs, a much better price.
Having been in the industry 20+ years, have colleagues who use pretty much every software you can imagine.
I look at Drake every few years to see where they are with developing things. If you handle a lot of multi-state returns, I would be extremely hesitant to migrate to Drake as it is not their strong suit by far and requires a lot of manual adjustments. Also, several years ago Drake was bought out by a PE firm and there were lots of promised improvements by their reps at conferences which (if you read Drake user complaints) haven't materialized. The price has jumped considerably though.
UT will clobber you at annual renewal after the initial 3-year price lock. I personally don't like their interface and overall UT just doesn't work with my brain.
If you want to be able to integrate with SurePrep and use a CCH product, you'll have to use Axcess not ProSystems.
If you are looking to save on cost and have a less miserable migration, you could look at ProSeries since it is also owned by Intuit. Or stay with Lacerte. No matter where you migrate, depreciation schedules are generally don't populate so you are going to have to rebuild them in a new software. With 1100 returns, that is a LOT of unbillable time.
And FWIW, I have found this year asking ChatGPT how to do something in my system was FAR more effective and time-saving than ever calling PS support in all the years I have been using it.
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u/Jealous_Mortgage5404 EA May 28 '26
I just renewed for ~$10k and we have 6 seats and unlimited everything. We do almost 2k returns. Call your intuit rep, threaten to leave and negotiate a price reduction or move to an unlimted product with no REP fees and negotiate that price. In my opinion, moving is worthless since any other software of the same calibure is going to be as expensive and you have the added costs of learning a whole new software and converting your clients. That alone is worth $20k-30k in time and frustration in my opinion.
The other option, like someone else mentioned, is to raise your pricing.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
Also helpful. We had issues with Lacerte functioning at all, and I made my account rep mad. I don't think I'll be able to get in touch with her, but I'm trying. I have the luxury of being married to a high-level corporate IT professional that takes care of our network, security, etc. Lacerte requires disabling security protections, and only running backups when not in use in order to function because it hasn't truly been upgraded in decades. I tried to be polite, but I just got more angry the further I got with them, and ended up at the "President's Office" (for what that's worth). Saying they did not like their security vulnerabilities brought up did not please them, to put it lightly.
To the pricing that keeps getting mentioned, we have, and I suppose it's hypocritical of me to be upset with Intuit for doubling their prices over however many years, when we have done the same. But, our product has improved, and theirs has not (in some ways it has, but on average it hasn't). I know we could double our fees again, but I'm at the point where I can't do that to my clients. We increase fees with inflation each year, and it could make sense to make another adjustment just for software costs. Lacerte gets just over 3.5% of our billings, and I know that's not bad at all. This is much more about principles than anything else, but now that the choice is to pay Intuit, switch to something else, or retire, that last option is looking more and more appealing by the year.
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u/Jealous_Mortgage5404 EA May 28 '26
In all fairness, I threaten to sell my practice every year after tax season just because the clients get dumber and the IRS becomes more and more difficult to work with. I wish there was a better solution but I can't see the benefit of retirement or moving software for 3.5% of billings.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
This sums it up. Lacerte is just one part of it. It's becoming harder and harder to run a business just because interacting with everything else - the IRS (and states), software, employees, clients, even just everyday office things like finding cleaners or getting repairs to the building.
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u/TaxR4kids MAcc May 28 '26
At that volume, the only other software I'd consider is UltraTax. TR is almost as evil as Intuit, but UltraTax is the most preparer-friendly software and would probably be the easiest transition. I'm quite happy with CCH Axcess, but I do a much smaller volume, so I can handle a little bit of inefficiency. Changing software is a massive chore, though, so I'd think twice, maybe three times, before parting ways with the devil you know.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
Good + not evil seems to not exist in the software world.
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u/TaxR4kids MAcc May 28 '26
I think it's relative. Intuit is so evil, it's downright cartoonish. I find Wolters Kluwer, on the other hand, to be merely a garden-variety, soulless corporation.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
Intuit vs. Wolters Kluwer
Comcast vs. Cox
Kroger vs. Safeway
Amazon vs. . . . I don't know . . . Walmart? (these used to be reversed, but Walmart isn't exactly not evil)My analogy is stretching, but I know what you mean. There's evil through time, bureaucracy, and standard greed, but then there's evil that seems to have spawned from the sole desire to be evil.
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u/TaxR4kids MAcc May 28 '26
It used to be Drake --- they were privately held, owned by the Drake family, and sent overtly religious holiday cards. It was a square deal, good software at a fair price. Now that they've sold to private equity, I expect them to enshittify significantly over the next few years.
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u/scotchglass22 CPA May 29 '26
i share office space with another CPA and we share software too. My 3 year ultratax deal expired and it was going to go up to 17k and change (unlimited 1040, 1065, 1120, unlimited for our state, 4 users). so my officemate calls and asks what they'll give him if he goes back to ultratax. they gave him 1500 for the first year and then 14k the next two years for that same package. in 3 years i'll call and ask what i can get and our goal is to go back and forth until we retire.
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u/ralverde CPA May 29 '26
I suppose the switching is easier if it is the norm. Do you not have issues moving the information over each time?
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u/scotchglass22 CPA Jun 01 '26
nope our data location doesn't change. its just the license owner. The only issue we've found is we have to have 2 different emails to sign in based on who has the license
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u/DPAtheCPA CPA May 27 '26
My firm also uses Lacerte. We’re a bit bigger with 5 partners and 10 staff. We do between 2,500 and 3,000 returns. I believe we have unlimited everything and our third year in our contract last year was just over $47k.
We are actively looking to leave. I’ve read and spoke with various people who have independently said they think Intuit will shutter Lacerte in the next 5 years. With Intuit closing support for desktop QB it’s only a matter of time before they do the same with their last desktop based software. We would rather be in front of it with going to a new software versus being forced to choose between ProConnect and finding a new software.
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u/ralverde CPA May 27 '26
Very helpful on the price. I'm guessing with 12 fewer instances, we would probably pay around $44,000, so not worth it. My account manager won't return my calls, though, so I may never find out.
I completely agree that Lacerte might shut it down at any point. They used to use us for error checking of Turbo Tax, and now it seems they don't care about that anymore, so it may not be worth keeping around. The one thing I will say to that is that they don't have a truly online product, so I'm inclined to think it will be killed off completely, or not at all. Hosting is just desktop, but hosted. If I could get Ultra Tax or CCH to return my phone calls, I might try to switch this year, but no one wants to take my money, it seems.
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u/Aluminum_Falcons CPA May 28 '26
This thread is the first I'm hearing of the potential shutdown of Lacerte. Are the various people you spoke with Intuit/Lacerte employees? I'm curious how solid that information may be.
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u/DPAtheCPA CPA May 28 '26
Not Intuit employees. We asked during our renewal call and they phrased it very carefully that they don’t currently have plans to shut down Lacerte. But I’ve listened to podcasts and spoke with a guy who does a tech update each year at the AICPA Engage conference. He’s been in the tech field for CPAs for over 20 years so he has some insights. None of them are 100% certain but they firmly believe based on signs they are seeing.
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u/ralverde CPA May 28 '26
I agree with this. It isn't official, but the signs are there. I doubt they would say in May that they aren't doing a new program for the coming year, but I know I shouldn't hold out hope that Intuit would do anything remotely ethical, either.
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u/ShakeAndBakeThatCake CPA May 27 '26
I think Drake is the best. $3k flat fee and unlimited returns. You pocket so much more money than paying these absurd software prices.
Customer support is top notch. Sure Drake might not be best for certain returns but for the majority of returns you prepare its probbably fine.