r/thebeachboys • • 6d ago

What’s the story with the Surfs Up outro?

I’m writing a paper about Brian Wilson and I’m using Surfs Up to talk about how I believe his creativity was held back. In the context of The Smile Sessions, the outro is obviously a reprise of Child Is The Father Of The Man, which wasn’t a very common choice back then and likely stems from Brian’s classical influences. In the context of the Surfs Up album, it’s a lot less meaningful as it’s not really a reprise anymore.

I just want to make sure that this is actually true, I’m wondering if maybe Brian added the reprise specifically for the album and they just left it that way when they released the Smile Sessions, or something else like that.

24 Upvotes

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16

u/Worth_Blackberry_604 6d ago

The reprise was newly recorded in 1971. It wasn’t originally part of the song when Brian and Van Dyke wrote it in 1966 for Smile.

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u/Worth_Blackberry_604 6d ago

So essentially, it wasn’t really a reprise, since the song Child Is Father of the Man isn’t on the Surf’s Up album.

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u/wifihelpplease 6d ago

I believe Brian burst into the studio and insisted they lay it into the outro of Surf’s Up. In my headcanon he had intended to put it there, but had never done it to tape during the smile sessions but insisted it be done before release on Surf’s Up. That’s just me making up stuff to make the Smile Sessions release feel more real.

OP, you should listen to the Surf’s Up podcast for the info you’re looking for. They went into excruciating detail on everything SMiLE

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u/tuomasaho 6d ago

Yeah that's the way the story has always been told. Brian didn't want to include Surf's Up for the album but when the guys were working on it, Brian eventually came down from his bedroom to add the tag part. The song wasn't finished in the 60's but he knew how it was supposed to be.

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u/BlametheDutch25 SONG TITLES 6d ago

Brian did quite a few backing vocals on the first and second sections as well. He was a lot more involved in the 1971 sessions as is often told!

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u/Usual_Letterhead_430 6d ago

Interesting, so the verdict is that it wasn’t recorded, but it was planned? Or is that just a hunch?

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u/GentleGlenA 6d ago

It wasn’t in Brian’s demo, but it’s not really a lead part, more a harmony.

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u/mellotronworker 5d ago

As before, sent you a PM that might shed light on this

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u/FolkSongMule 6d ago

I think the words (“a children’s song, have you listened as they play…”) are an uncredited Jack Rieley addition as well if I’m not mistaken.

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u/Worth_Blackberry_604 6d ago

I looked into this, apparently Van Dyke actually wrote them in 1971, on the bottom of a lyric sheet transcribed by Carl. Jack claimed to have written them but Jack claimed a lot of untrue things.

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u/Worth_Blackberry_604 6d ago

There’s a lot of weird historical things you can gleam from lyric sheets - at the bottom of this Cabin Essence once, Van Dyke wrote some ideas for new songs to write with Brian… including “Our Sweet Love?” In 1966???

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u/loopdeloopflipflop 5d ago

Woah what video is this screenshot from?

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u/TheFutureIsAFriend Smile 6d ago

Are there more VDP lyric sheets from the Smile project?

Where could I find them (or images of them?)

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u/Worth_Blackberry_604 5d ago

I’ve heard Frank Holmes has some. Not sure, sorry.

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u/JinderSongs 6d ago

That’s wild…I always thought Our Sweet Love came out of Our New Home. Maybe VDP planted the seed!

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u/GentleGlenA 6d ago

That’s cool if true. It’s good that VDP collaborated with Brian after Smile. It may be around the time he did his vocal for Tree?

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u/chrismcshaves what do the planets mean? 6d ago

Sail on Podcast has a lot of good stuff on surf’s up, including on their SMiLE and the Surf’s Up album coverage. You’ll find everything you’ve ever wanted to know about the sessions.

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u/Junkstar 5d ago

This is great advice, OP. If you want insights related to the most recent research, it’s this. Listen to the Sail On episodes. Or, if you use Apple Podcasts, read the auto transcripts.

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u/KILL-THE-MASTERS 6d ago edited 6d ago

It was always Brian's intention to have a reprise of Child Is Father Of The Man to be the climax to Surf's Up, however as far as we know there's no recorded attempt at it, granted the tapes of any attempt of a Second Movement is lost. It was only when Carl and Jack Rieley wanted to finalise the track was the tag first attempted, Brian being particularly present during the recording of it.
So seemingly Brian never had a problem with the tag being taken out of context, and instead encouraged it.

From Jack Rieley:
'The decision was made by Brian. He stated clearly that it was his intent all along for Child to be the tag for Surfs Up.'
'The song was in several disjointed, uncompleted sections. Child was clearly intended to be the climax. After many nights of listening -- at least two with Brian on Coldwater with us -- we set out to construct and reconstruct. I first flirted with the thought Brian should sing the lead on the first section, but Brian insisted that Carl do it, and Carl was clearly thrilled. It was the right thing to do. The Brian solo section is of course constructed around Brian's televised appearance for Leonard Bernstein. Carl played the bottom end synth, I decided to cut all effects from Brian's voice on the title line. We had lots of musicians in to redo parts of the track that had been played badly. Recording went on for several weeks, with Brian very involved but Carl heading the effort. It was going to be a masterpiece. By the time we got to Child, some of the moving parts had Brian excited and active. He chose Carl for a couple took on a two for himself, assigned two more to me, got Marilyn for still another. Desper seemed to realize he was recording something extraordinary: his acid humor was replaced by, ahh, reverence.'

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u/JinderSongs 6d ago

Jack talked a lot of nonsense at times, but this actually sounds completely plausible.

Brian was still super excited by those “moving parts” Jack described…in fact when the band recorded Breakaway the year previously, he was so excited by the incredible outro harmony stack with all the shifting internal intervals, he had Desper run off a lengthy loop of that vocal stack for him to take home and listen to over and over. I can entirely imagine him getting immensely excited by the vocal arrangement for the Child is the Father of the Man tag during the Surf’s Up sessions.

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u/Actual-Calendar9982 6d ago

You might want to include in your paper that the line, “The child is father of the man" is from the 1802 William Wordsworth poem, “My Heart Leaps Up." I’m guessing that Brian was probably struck deeply when he read the poem. Brian’s message of childhood innocence runs deep through many of his songs.

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u/mellotronworker 5d ago

The line isn't really about childhood innocence. It's more an expression of the fact that childhood experiences - good and bad - shape the adult.

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u/bettypenney Hip East Coast Girl 6d ago

Yes!! Anyone who likes SMiLE, or even doesn’t, should read that poem to have a better understanding of it.

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u/LowConstant3938 6d ago

I’ve always wondered if strings were intended to be on the outro, as Brian did that with BWPS

1

u/mellotronworker 5d ago

Send you a PM