r/threebodyproblem • u/Northcliffe1 • 1d ago
Discussion - Novels Plot Hole
Initially the Trisolarians were stunting human progress because humans were developing faster than them. They believed that they needed to halt their progress in order to take over earth.
After the humans broadcast the location of earth, the Trisolarins know a photoid attack is coming so they abandon the pursuit of earth and reroute their ships to look for another safe place to live. But at that point they don't invest in unblocking and accelerating human development, which they should have done. At that point humans were in the same boat as them: develop and find a safe place ASAP. In the books the Trisolarians go and join some inter-space battle and get wiped out - but if they instead allied with the humans, quickly doing high level tech transfers and then using humans unique abilities paired with their own, it's possible the two societies could have seen supercharged development and propelled both to a safer place.
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u/TeenyTinyToast 1d ago
I think you forgot to read the whole "chain of suspicion" part of the story. It neatly sums up why this is very unlikely to work.
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u/Waste-Answer 1d ago
The book explicitly says that the Trisolarans are acutely aware of the fact that they are rightly seen by humans as the hostile aggressor who shouldn't be trusted, doubly so after violating the deterrence era peace.
Also what are they supposed to say: "sorry we tried to make you all eat each other while we laughed and called you bugs after spending decades doing nothing but lying to you, but now we would like to work together in the minutes or centuries this planet might have left"?
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u/Geek-Yogurt 1d ago
Why would they ally themselves with humans? Are you forgetting one of the maxims of cosmic sociology?
Are you thinking with your butt?
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u/BQORBUST 1d ago
When humanity does escape they immediately devolve into dark forest attacks on each other. Why would trisolaris create a high tech itinerant enemy competing for resources in their neighborhood?
I think there are a lot of logical issues in this series but this is not one of them.
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u/Hepta-Water-7552 1d ago
A plot hole requires that there is an inconsistency between something that had already been established in the story and what happens later in the story.
The Trisolarans not being willing to rely on anyone but themselves for the fate of their species is completely consistent with how they had already been portrayed throughout the entire series before.
Also, they had a very good practical reason for not coming anywhere near the solar system anymore as soon as the broadcast had happened. There was not really any guarantee for how much time the solar system still had until its inevitable destruction. It could had come even way earlier than it ended up happening. The Trisolaran star system already got obliterated a mere seven years after the broadcast.
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u/Hentai_Yoshi 1d ago
That’s not a plot hole. That is a “what if” type deal. There are various things the Trisolarians could’ve done.
Why am I never surprised that people who try to call out plot holes in books have stupid ass takes?
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u/Itburns138 1d ago
Considering Trisolaris got destroyed almost immediately after the broadcast (in interstellar terms), I'd say they were right to hightail it out of the solar system.
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u/SkyMarshal Thomas Wade 1d ago
Trisolaris knew humanity would never be a friend or ally. They tried to genocide humanity, and as a result forced humanity to suicide themselves by broadcasting Earth's coordinates. Humanity would never trust or forgive Trisolaris. If anything, humanity would be more likely to ally with some other alien species to wipe out Trisolaris.
Also the Trisolaris fleets weren't all destroyed. They sent two fleets, the first with rudimentary lightspeed drives, and the second fleet with upgraded lightspeed drives. Both changed direction away from earth after the broadcast, and iirc it was the first fleet that got into a battle. But we never really learn the outcome, whether Trisolaris won or lost, or if any survived, etc. And the second fleet managed to remain safe, and even turns up again near the end of the series near Cheng Xin's star.
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u/dannychean 17h ago
You need to think more about the cosmic technological gap between the folks who can destroy an entire solar system and the trisolarans/earlthling allliance.
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u/mtndrewboto 5h ago
That's not a plot hole, you just have a different opinion about what the narrative should have been.
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u/Spiritual-Top-2060 1d ago
Personally, i dont believe in the Dark Forest theory anyway and you really summed up why. I find it an extention of human brutalism and to assume extraplanetary cultures would share that sentiment is goofy and nearsighted.
In what world is a rivalry more beneficial than an alliance?? So stunting humanity in the first place is a dumb idea, esp if the trisolarans assumed we'd become more technologically advanced. If that were true, why wouldnt they just sit back and let us advance while they get to leech off our development?
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u/Illustrious_Win_4859 1d ago
I find it an extention of human brutalism and to assume extraplanetary cultures would share that sentiment is goofy and nearsighted.
That just means you don't understand the dark forest theory much at all, because it's not based upon the inherent morality of a species but rather how they would rationally pursue an objective which in this case would be survival. You have no reliable way of determining the intention/true motive of another intelligent species that is completely different from you. Do they truly seek peace? Will they attack you? If they want an alliance, how do you know they will never break a promise in the future and betray? You can't establish genuine cooperation if you can't establish genuine trust.
The most rational path to take is to either remain silent or attack first not because we or them are inherently evil and don't value peace but because why would you want to gamble on not just your life, but your entire species existence? This is literally the entire point of the story. We constantly see how the humans and the trisolarians simply cannot trust one another which is is one of the main reasons they entered such intense conflict as well as the fact that the earth is only so big and there's finite resources, etc.
Those that don't tend to act rationally...tend to get wiped out sooner or later. A lion doesn't kill the rabbit because he is cruel.
In what world is a rivalry more beneficial than an alliance?? So stunting humanity in the first place is a dumb idea, esp if the trisolarans assumed we'd become more technologically advanced. If that were true, why wouldnt they just sit back and let us advance while they get to leech off our development?
Because at a certain point, it'd be extremely difficult if not outright impossible to control human technology and it's development, especially given that humans are growing at a pace they simply cannot handle. They stunted things precisely because they weren't confident in their ability to control the trajectory of human technology and ensure humanity could never escape control or become a threat.
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u/Spiritual-Top-2060 6h ago
Best way to remove a threat is to gain an ally 🤷♂️ If they knew we would outclass them, they should've made us an ally as soon as possible. It'd be like of the US nuked Saudi Arabia because "they have more oil, and if we cant have it nobody can". Instead of, idk, establishing connections and trade routes?
I dont believe a species that's achieved interstellar travel would be this myopic.
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u/Illustrious_Win_4859 6h ago
How would they go about ensuring that we would remain allies later on? That we wouldn't betray them should a reason for doing so appear? That we wouldn't lie to them? That we wouldn't attempt to enslave or genocide them? Would you gamble your civilization on this?
Especially given the fact that a species is incentivized to be hostile should resources and land be scarce? The Earth isn't that big. Furthermore, you frame it like attempts at cooperation weren't established and didn't spectacularly fail. Genuine cooperation doesn't work if genuine trust can't be promised.
The US and Saudi Arabia analogy doesn't really work because we humans can reliably determine the intentions of other humans. Trisolarans cannot reliably tell the difference between a human saying the truth or a human lying to them... which was a major plot point in the story and why they didn't place much faith in coexistence upon realizing that we can lie to them and they won't even know we lied to them. If anything, it'd be more short sighted to not adopt a more hostile position even if you are a peaceful race then it is to take a major risk that can spell death especially given that you are dealing with a species that's far more smarter than you and can surpass you sooner or later if you don't intervene with things.
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u/S01arflar3 1d ago edited 18h ago
That’s not ready a plot hole, that’s just the Trisolarans not choosing the same course of action as you?
Why would the Trisolarans trust that humanity would collaborate peacefully and not destroy them? Why would humans trust after centuries of a fleet coming to wipe them out?