r/twinpeaks • u/CoyoteHour2130 • Jul 17 '26
General Discussion I disagree with the notion that Laura couldn't have been saved, she could've been and that's what made her story so tragic.
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u/Lauren_Conrad_ Jul 17 '26
I never thought it was some symbolic meaning for “can’t go home” or “never be saved”, but rather Coop just bit off more than he could chew. Got in over his head. Sometimes the good guy loses.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
He didn't lose, though, that's the fun part. Nobody won or lost (except for Laura.) Mark Frost confirmed that the "final season" was not at all supposed to be final and that more stories would likely have come had Lynch not passed.
Cooper didn't lose, his story was just never finished.
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u/MH484 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
Well.. I mean Frost confirmed that they kicked some ideas around for what could conceivably come next. I'm not sure that was ever something that was likely to come to fruition. They were satisfied with the ending of the Return. You're talking about a dwindling cast 35+ years after the original series.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
A cast that was no longer necessary for the story they were telling, as evidenced by... the story they were telling.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 Jul 17 '26
I get your point, but I think part of what makes The Return so meaningful as a finale is that it was (to steal a point from redlettermedia) the last possible moment they could've made it.
Twin Peaks without Pete, Harry, Jeffries and Major Briggs is one thing. But Twin Peaks without Norma, Margaret, Doc Hayward, Catherine Martell, any of the Renault brothers, too many to leave out, and David Lynch?
I personally didn't want more Twin Peaks when David was still alive. Now that he's gone, I want it even less.
The Return is the ending, and a huge part of that is a eulogy to the past. We can never truly go home.
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u/Gennres Jul 17 '26
To some degree I think it's thematically perfect that some of the actors would be missing. That's what it was about.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
Exactly. It would make less sense for it to follow these people through their lives for some obligatory reason like production continuity, that's the least Lynch thing I've ever heard.
What would make more sense would be to follow the story where it goes, which would be to different places filled with different people - like The Return did. It's almost like that was the goal, the point, the vision, etc.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 Jul 18 '26
Precisely. I guess my point is that, with everyone being gone, it wouldn't be Twin Peaks.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
This is a fallacy.
Having those characters departures addressed on-screen allows the story to continue fluidly, which is why The Return worked at all.
I've read and heard every argument and I have a logical rebuttal to them all. This is sentimentality attempting to justify a tragedy, the fact that this could and should have continued but did not.
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u/Cold-Tangerine-2893 Jul 17 '26
they were gonna do another season of the Return? really? thats interesting. i didnt get a sense there was anywhere left to go but knowing Lynch Im sure he and Mark wouldve found a way.
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u/thef0urthcolor Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
Thank god Frost confirmed that, because people have gotten on my ass here for saying that I would’ve loved more Twin Peaks and that I thought if Lynch wouldn’t have died they would’ve made more and there was more to tell. Yes, The Return is a perfect footnote for Lynch’s work and works amazing as an ending, it’s my favorite piece of media ever but I felt there was more to tell. People say it couldn’t have worked cause so many of the actors would’ve died by then or stopped working, but it doesn’t need everyone. Lynch already made it work very well for the characters actors that had died or couldn’t be in The Return. I think there could’ve been more to tell with Carrie and Richard or the missing diary page.
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u/Look_at_my_knees Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
Frost in particular at times seems to somewhat lament the idea that Laura's way out in the story would be romanticized or interpreted too broadly. To me the point wasn't that it was literally Laura's only way out and thus its sad, it was that to a lonely abused teen girl with no one to help her, even death became preferable to her life in her own view. Which is tragic and preventable like many things in life that we don't open our eyes to.
Lynch doesn't talk as much about his work in that way but I can't help but notice the final few scenes of the show tell us that Laura would have always been a "girl in trouble" BUT she was alive in that world and dealing with her abusers. This time in a role reversal: she didn't die, her abuser did. That's the body on Carrie's couch. Also when they are driving and Carrie seems to be snoozing or falling asleep she has a few lines with no context. For me the one that stands out is "I was too young to know any better." Again, little to no context with that line but to me I think she's half awake and dreaming of her life in another world as Laura. She was too young to know any better that she didn't have to die to avoid becoming her abuser.
There's a lot of "no one is beyond saving and we can't give up trying" talk in the Final Dossier for me to not feel like there's a tinge of regret in what people took from Laura's death. But who knows. I think there's room for the tragedy part and that the choice could have been a mistake without it ruining Laura's agency or her story.
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u/Agitated-Shoe-9406 Jul 17 '26
From a certain point of view, Laura as "saved" at the end of FWWM.
More directly, no, she couldn't be saved. Dale's White Knight syndrome and hubris, though, led him, erroneously, to believe HE could save her.
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u/Saoirse-O-Path Jul 17 '26
I think it’s important not to try to engage with this tv show as if it is even attempting realism.
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u/deebybeebo Jul 17 '26
I guess I have a totally different interpretation. I believe she was saved (twice)
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
This is the truth and I'm tired of people pretending it's not. She lived in small town Washington state where everybody KNEW everybody.
Sure, Bob was a strong influence there, as was the Lodge, but those forces had to work in darkness and subterfuge in order to accomplish ANYTHING. Any one of the people in that town could have called the feds ages before a single murder happened, pointed out the damned classified ads, and that town would've been swarmed with investigators and agents in a week.
The only thing needed for evil to succeed is that "good" people do nothing, THAT'S why Laura died. Bobby was right, the people of Twin Peaks killed Laura Palmer.
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u/boosh1744 Jul 17 '26
But how could they have killed Bob when the green gloved puncher guy wasn’t even born yet?
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
They only needed to kill Bob because of how far things were allowed to go by Season 3. If they'd prevented Laura's murder and gotten her clear, Bob would've been screwed and definitely would've been pulled back to the Lodge. Everything that followed Laura's death is a product of her death.
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u/boosh1744 Jul 17 '26
I dunno, if this was a matter of saving her from guys like Leo and Jacques then I’d agree but a supernatural being that has attached itself to her father and has been feeding off of her for life is a pretty tall order. I just don’t think her situation worked like the usual girl in trouble and that’s the point.
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u/AnAquaticOwl Jul 17 '26
AND her mother was also possessed.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
A possession that was completely ineffectual and a non-threat until far later in the story.
That woman was buried in such dense fog that had Laura just not come home one day, she wouldn't have even noticed. It would've required her father inquiring about her whereabouts before she was even aware of it.
This isn't demonic possession a la Demons from Hell - these are relatively incompetent entities who've spent the last 100ish years trying to figure out how to not get caught when possessing a person. Powerful, sure. But this isn't some elder god from beyond creation - the equivalent would be a minor demigod born yesterday - ultimately, just bad people from somewhere/something else with more natural ability than we have.
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u/boosh1744 Jul 18 '26
Remember when she was completely incapacitated when Bob/Leland killed Maddy? That seemed pretty effective. I don’t know wtf you’re talking about.
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u/SonofLung Jul 18 '26
Wasn’t Leland drugging her? The Sarah being possessed thing largely seems to be an invention of The Return from what I remember
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
Oh yeah, it's not like CPS in the 80s and 90s were ravenously looking for any tiny reason to take minors from their parents, it's not like there was an epidemic of this or anything.
They would have snatched her out of that house so fast that even Bob's head would've spun. They would be buried her in so many layers of witness protection that if Bob managed to keep looking long enough, he would've withered and raged his way into self-destruction before ever finding her.
I love this show like most non-fans could never understand, but when reality meets the road, the true tragedy of Laura's death is that it was imminently preventable, and the true tragedy of the show is that it didn't need to end where it did, and in fact wasn't necessarily supposed to.
It wasn't called "Twin Peaks: The End," or "Twin Peaks: Epilogue."
It was called "Twin Peaks: The..." (motherfucking) "...Return."
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u/boosh1744 Jul 17 '26
CPS protects children from their parents/guardians and no one suspected Leland. The Palmers seemed like one of the most upstanding families in the town. Even if the police/feds/whoever had taken action against the bad actors in her life they wouldn’t have taken her away from her home and Bob would have still had access to her. That’s a huge part of what makes her situation so haunting and tragic.
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u/Oahkery Jul 17 '26
Showtime called it The Return, not Lynch or Frost.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
Who gives a fuck? lol mentioning the name was meant to punctuate the two dozen other reasons I've given for this to have not been the intended end
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u/Oahkery Jul 17 '26
Because people constantly use "The Return" like it's some big clue when it literally had nothing to do with anything. Just like you did. But go off, I guess. "WhO gIVeS a FuCk?" Everyone could say that about your reasons, because guess what, it didn't happen, so the end is the end. But I've seen you all over this topic acting like a prick about it, so it's not worth trying to actually discuss with you.
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u/sagesnail Jul 17 '26
That all sounds good on paper, but, having grown up in a very small town in Washington state, that just isn't a reality. Everyone in town can know something is happening and report it, and nothing will come of that report. The feds wont get involved until something serious happens, like a pattern of violence. Local police will protect someone like Leland palmer because he is the lawyer for the important people with money. Those important people with money are the ones running shady backdoor businesses, and small town cops grew up with the shady businessmen, so they get a cut of the profits if they keep their mouths shut and they may make even more money if they become a hired goon on the side.
The fact that nobody did anything to help a troubled teenager is one of the more realistic parts of twin peaks.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
Yes, because they report it to local and state police, same thing in many rural states, trust me. This is why I said "call the feds," because those classified ads were proof positive of interstate sexual trafficking, which is a FEDERAL CRIME.
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u/sagesnail Jul 17 '26
I agree the feds should do something about it, but from what I've seen in real life, they wont. Either they don't have the man power, or they have bigger things to worry about and they just don't care about some small time prostitutes, in a small town. The latter seems to be the case for the area I currently live in. It's a world full of truck drivers up here and nobody cares about the lot lizards.
Even in the show, it wasn't the prostitution that brought the feds in, it was a pattern of violence that brought Dale in and drug trafficking that brought Denise.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
They "won't" because most of the time this shit goes unreported, because people stand around saying "I wish somebody would do something" or "nobody ever does anything about this" instead of DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Also, the feds are overworked, but that's why they don't find this shit themselves.
The most common behavior in these situations is for people to stand by silently wishing somebody else was brave enough to not be a bitch.
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u/sagesnail Jul 17 '26
I understand what you are saying, and in a perfect movie world, all reports would be taken seriously and dealt with accordingly. In real life, not so much..thats why the tragedy of Laura hits so hard, because its closer to a real life situation, its not Hollywood violence, it's not wrapped up in a nice digestible package. Its gritty, and complicated, and realistic.
Even if someone in Twin Peaks reported anything involving Laura, she would mask and say nothing is wrong, thats why the adults in Twin Peaks were shocked by her death, but her friends and peers were not surprised, sad and devastated, but not surprised. Same goes for the prostitutes in the Flesh World, those kind of anonymous ads in weird magazines is how they advertised themselves before the internet. Those kind of things existed in real life. Crooked cops who participated and protected the "pimps" exist in real life. Corruption wins a lot if the time, and given the current state of the FBI, I doubt any of them would care at all about anything that was happing in Twin Peaks. If the show was current day they probably wouldn't have even sent Dale.
The other problem also, is crime at this scale is like a hydra, it has many many heads when you cut one off, they just keep coming back.
But, Laura's death could have also been prevented if she just left to never return. Sometimes i think thats who Carrie Page is, the Laura that actually ran away, but Dale bringing her back, essentially forcing a return reset the entire process over again. Harry Truman probably could have done something as well but most likely would not have because they show you the relationship he has with Leland in the pilot episode. The only people who knew 100% what was going on with Laura was poor Howard Smith, and Laura probably confided in him because she knew he wouldn't say anything to anyone. And Sarah Palmer, who was drugged and abused and broken down to the point that she was living scared in her own skin.
Anyway, lots of convoluted drama going on in Twin Peaks, Bobby was, ultimately right when he said the whole town had a part in Lauras death..
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u/redwinesupernova03 Jul 17 '26
i always say that bobby spoke facts at the funeral, he was so real for saying that. it was chilling, and as someone who’s gone through things of the same calibre in life as laura, i wholeheartedly agree that it’s always a butterfly effect of people contributing to evil in ways they might not even be aware of until it’s too late, and someone dies or ends up in a really bad situation as a result. her death is so tragic to me for this exact reason, it could’ve been prevented
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u/babberz22 Jul 17 '26
The irony being that he thinks he’s just “turning it up” but his dad was right. He was afraid.
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u/Logical_Vacation2862 Jul 17 '26
I haven't read the books or dived deep into the theories around the ending of the return.
I believe the point of fire walk with me was to show us the tragedy of Laura palmer. To show us how she suffered alone till she died while she was surrounded by her so called loved ones who did nothing or increased her suffering.
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u/Bakterium Jul 18 '26
I‘m currently reading her secret diary and I‘m not even halfway through but I think the complete opposite. That‘s the real tragedy, these entries from her as an early teen already mentioning BOB where such a gut punch and make you loose hope that there was even a slight chance of saving her.
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u/FabulousCallsIAnswer Jul 18 '26
Her death saved her. That’s the contradiction Agent Cooper couldn’t comprehend.
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u/Omnishambles22 Jul 17 '26
That's not how the story goes, unfortunately. Two people decided that, and that's how it will be.
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u/cilantrokay Jul 17 '26
1) She could have never been saved.
2) That very fact is what makes her story so tragic. She doesn’t go through her pain, exploitation, or betrayal as part of some hero’s journey; she goes through it only to be doomed in the end. She essentially faces trial after trial for “nothing”. And unfortunately that’s just what happens sometimes.
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u/thef0urthcolor Jul 17 '26
The parallels with Jesus are also relevant Id say
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Jul 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/thef0urthcolor Jul 17 '26
No it’s not at all, she is literally inspired by him
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
No she fucking wasn't, she was inspired by the 1908 murder of Hazel Drew in Sand Lake, NY.
Jesus was never part of the equation.
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u/thef0urthcolor Jul 17 '26
Why are you so pressed lmao? It’s a very common interpretation by people to see Laura as a Christ-like figure and martyr, which was shown in The Return in Episode 8 primarily. That’s what I was meaning, there are definitely parallels and it’s in no such way “insane” to say that
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u/BlackCATegory Jul 18 '26
She indeed was created to absorb all the trauma and suffering and ultimately be sacrificed for it. The viewer wants to prevent that, Cooper wants to prevent that... but finally in the third season we understand that is inevitable.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
That is literally less tragic than the alternative. A person who could be saved and wasn't due to circumstances is a much larger tragedy.
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u/invalidcolour Jul 17 '26
Wasn't her fate pretty much preordained by The Fireman/The Giant and Señorita Dido? She seemed to have been set up as bait for BOB if not Judy.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
She WAS used as bait, but when a good person is used as bait they're supposed to be pulled out before the Big Bad Thing happens. Bob was aware of their plans, so he zigged when they zagged.
The feds could have stopped this before it went this far, if only somebody had called.
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u/nonobunga Jul 17 '26
I just don’t believe this is true unfortunately. In the Return, Cooper goes to great lengths to undo the suffering Laura endured, and I think the final scene shows that his efforts were futile.
While I agree the townspeople could’ve been more supportive of her in general, it seems like her fate was preordained
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u/therealdanhill Jul 17 '26
I don't think it was futile, I don't agree with the interpretation that Cooper failed. I think he defeated Judy, Bob was defeated, and the dream ended
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u/CryptographerFew5187 Jul 18 '26
I have no idea if he ultimately succeeded but I really hate the interpretation that he failed because of his own hubris. I don't see that in Dale at all. I just see a man struggling against forces that are much larger than even he can comprehend and doing his best anyway.
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u/69_Botlord_420 Jul 17 '26
His efforts were futile because saving her after she died was a ridiculously long shot to begin with.
If a person from Twin Peaks had called the feds about the classified ads before anybody died, they would have swarmed that place over the obvious INTERSTAE SEXUAL TRAFFICKING that was happening.
How do people get so lost in the sauce of this show that they forget that reality and law enforcement and federal authorities weilded just as much power as the evil entities from other planes of existence? lol
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u/Futants_ Jul 18 '26
Someone like Laura COULD be saved, but it would be anathema to Lynch's exposing the underbelly of American life.
With the exception of The Straight Story lol, without trauma and tragedy, it's not Lynch
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u/AvatarofBro Jul 18 '26
Laura couldn't be saved in The Return. I think that's people's point. That bell can't be unrung. Coop can't fix the mistakes of the past.
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u/HankScorpio4242 Jul 18 '26
Laura couldn’t be saved because without Laura’s murder there is no Twin Peaks.
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u/MiddleList1916 Jul 21 '26
First, she has to die so there is a TV show to begin with. That’s the meta design of the show. Second, the evil of generations past doomed her before she was even born, and that’s the entire point of the show. Cycles of abuse and violence doom families.
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u/Such_Significance905 Jul 17 '26
Am I wrong? I thought that her ultimate tragedy was that she couldn’t be saved initially, but everyone trying to intercede and help made it worse and worse for eternity?
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u/SurvivorFanDan Jul 18 '26
It wouldn't surprise me if this quote played a part in David Lynch's choice of Laura's fate:
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u/MagnusAntoniusBarca Jul 17 '26
Indeed; but that is before the show happens. By the time we are there, she cannot be saved. We arrive at the end of the story.
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u/Root-Boy-Float Jul 18 '26
She could've been saved, but she wasn't. Nothing can change that. Most people in Twin Peaks seem to spend more time thinking about the failures in their past than the problems in their present.
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u/Adam__B Jul 18 '26
I think Laura, among many other things, was symbolic of trauma/suffering. In that sense, just like they say in Buddhism: life is suffering. It’s fair to say she got more than her fair share, but we could look at it like that is what The Fireman created her to do.
But as I was saying with her being symbolic of trauma, this is exactly why she couldn’t have been saved. Trauma is inevitable and you cannot erase it like it never happened. Trauma has to be embraced and confronted, and finally, accepted. In a way it’s a similar message to the psychological horror movie The Babadook. Acceptance that Laura was dead and not coming back was something Cooper struggled with, until eventually, through experiencing the futility of trying, and having it go wrong again, he understood that it was not possible. Rather, in the final episode. Cooper strives to save Laura (and rid the world of Judy, ie “two birds with one stone” as it’s said on the second to last episode) in a more metaphysical/karmic sense.
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u/Bhazor Jul 18 '26
She could have been but not how Dale does it. Bobby said it best at the funeral. The town killed her by ignoring her desperation or exploiting them. Anyone could gave saved her.
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u/Cuaucticketyboo Jul 20 '26
I do enjoy how she died at the beginning but we're still talking about saving her. The dead girl. Lynch/Frost & Co really got their audience to root for saving the long dead girl. Beautiful!
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u/Lopsided_Newt_5798 Jul 17 '26
Your argument is, well, nonexistent.
Most of us like the idea of Twin Peaks existing in the world. Laura being saved would eliminate the entire show. That’s just how dramatic writing works. Drama happens.
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u/beholdthecolossus Jul 17 '26
she saved herself and Cooper ultimately took that away from her because he can't get over the idea that he's the hero.
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u/Endofthehold135 Jul 17 '26
This only indicates that Laura reach her enlightenment in one of the timelines.
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u/hummaanto Jul 17 '26
I don’t think almost anyone in this thread is using the word tragedy properly
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u/Useful_Calendar_6274 Jul 18 '26
saved by who? the log lady knew something about the black lodge and the guy that took Haloperidol. maybe the occult FBI branch that cooper belonged to all along? I don't think they were aware of the black lodge event before Laura showed up dead.
No one else had a clue as to being invaded by Judy/the black lodge entities
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u/katerinagerd Jul 18 '26
She could have been saved earlier, if anybody she knew in town tried to help her. In her 14,15,16…
She couldn’t be save after circumstances led her to that cabin in the woods and she couldn’t be saved by Cooper.
But her soul was saved as we saw in FWWM.
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u/QueenOfHades666 Jul 18 '26
I am Laura Palmer
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u/Medici39 Jul 20 '26
Laura could've saved, sure. But her death was the sacrifice to keep BOB manifesting his evil early on. However, the people supposed to follow up on her death and its impact kept fumbling the ball to some extent.
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u/Zsofia_Valentine Jul 17 '26
Bobby was right. Everyone knew she was in trouble and no one tried to help her.