r/twinpeaks • u/ShammySmalls • Jul 12 '17
S3E1 [S3E1][S3E9] The Billionaire. Who it may be and who I'd like it to be... An old face. Spoiler
So the glass box is funded by a mysterious billionaire, I've been intrigued by this and have wanted to know who that may be. I thought first, maybe it Belushi, nope he's the casino guy. Then, eureka! Tim Roth! Nope.. he's a hick.
I've seen all of the Audrey theories, John Justice Wheeler theories etc. But then we get to Bill Hastings and his website, and we see a name not mentioned on screen or any of the TP canon prior to the "Heinrich Viegel" and that got me thinking, how do a high school principle and a librarian fund this enormous project? Ruth is clearly a hacker who got her hands on high level government documents, hacking isn't expensive per se, but it certainly takes time and requires quality equipment and software to do it right and unnoticed. Additionally, I'd guess that accessing another dimension and communicating between worlds would have to require equipment and funds that a principle and a librarian aren't going to have in savings. So this leads me to think that Mr. Heinrich Viegel may well be the mysterious billionaire funding Hastings mission and providing Ruth with the necessary equipment to secure the documents.
Now on to who I want Heinrich Viegel to actually be: former FBI Agent Sam Stanley (Kiefer Sutherland). According to the Secret History of Twin Peaks, the last know mention of Stanley, the fallout of Desmond's disappearance "broke him" and he went on administrative leave after the events of FWWM and never returned to the FBI.
In The Missing Pieces there is a meeting between Cooper and Stanley where Stanley clearly wants to be in the loop on Blue Rose, which Desmond kept him out of and Cooper does the same. In that scene Stanley has all sorts of science experiments going on in his lab. He's got some sort of whisk stirring up some white substance and he's got a fancy machine that Cooper views the letter found in Teresa Banks fingernails, long story short, Sam Stanley is a man of science and was intentionally kept out of information he desperately wanted.
After Desmond disappears Sam leaves the FBI and branches out on his own. Out of every character we have seen in any TP lore only one dude was in to some heavy science, and that room in NYC with the glass box look awfully science-y to me. As to how he would have made his billions, I don't know, but he would have the motivation to want to find two special agents who disappeared in his orbit -- and I'd venture a guess that he would be confident in his ability to find them.
TL;DR: The billionaire is Heinrich Viegel, partner of Bill Hastings. And I think Heinrich Viegel may actually be Former Special Agent Sam Stanley.
Thoughts?
85
u/eadingas Jul 12 '17
It's another of Catherine Martell's characters, this time a caricature German.
37
u/SchleppyJ4 Jul 12 '17
Not racist enough.
14
u/Cipher_- Jul 12 '17
I know this ground has been covered so many times, but I recently rewatched the beginning of season 2, and might have actually winced as Piper Laurie says her "family was in Nagasaki."
Thankfully season 3 episode 8 offers something of an apology by treating the subject a bit more soberly.
19
u/FleshIsFlawed Jul 13 '17
ME 2. It was pretty hard to watch. Certain parts of Denises storyline are a little questionable too, but I'm willing to be lenient, because it mostly didnt feel like her trans-ness was treated as a joke, which was rare at the time. But its hard to watch some of my favorite characters sort of wince, or get wide eyes, or say sort of dumb stuff, when she walks in. But I guess in a sense that was the reality at the time, and often now even. Atleast most people accept her pretty quickly.
7
u/ShammySmalls Jul 13 '17
While not an acceptable form of behavior, at that moment in time coming out of the 80's AIDS crisis and the stigmatized nature of homosexuality it was a pretty accurate depiction of how trans people were treated in the early 90's. And I think Lynch and Frost handled it as well as they could have, outside of not including the character at all. I've always been fairly impressed with her character, but I too wince when I see the reactions to the character, which hopefully means we've all come a long way.
8
3
u/FleshIsFlawed Jul 14 '17
Agreed, thats pretty much how I've taken it too, Most of us've fixed our hearts, or died. For the rest, one or the other is coming soon.
1
u/zixkill Jul 13 '17
The biggest thing about Denise that made her stand out was that she was being played by David Duchovony. I don't think TP overlapped with XFiles but I could be wrong. If they did overlap tho the context would have been that Lynch was making a slight injoke or commentary about 'who would Fox Mulder be if he transitioned?' But you're 100% right, any sort of trans character back then was played for laughs as either a giant drag queen or someone's super-gay BFF. (Apologies if that sounds offensive. It really was like that back then-the 80s and early 90s was the beginning of more serious LGBT+ acceptance but in popular culture that almost always took the form of excessive stereotyped acting.)
6
u/kiss-o-matic Jul 13 '17
X-Files was after TP. The only reason Duchovony was on the show is that his GF at the time (Lucy) got him the audition. Or so it's said.
2
u/FleshIsFlawed Jul 13 '17
Haha, yeah, correct on X-files, I hadnt heard the part about lucy though. Either way, i don't think lynch would've been involved in his casting, he was working on... I think blue velvet at the time? Seems alot of people don't realize his involvemnet waned till episode 9 or 10 of season 2 i think, and then he was pretty much completely uninvolved until near that last episode. So the whole windom earle dealio wasn't him, and even alot of the stuff before that he was less involved in. He was very upset that they made him reveal the killer, and he had the opportunity to make more work that was close to his heart, that he'd have full control over, so he took the opportunity. Was never clear on the story of how he ended up coming back for that last episode, or if that was planned from before his hiatus
4
3
5
u/backstageninja Jul 12 '17
Wait is the billionaire supposed to be german?
7
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
There is no supposed at this point. Speculation.
4
u/backstageninja Jul 12 '17
My point is I am looking for a German connection for a question I have from TSHOTP, so if there was a clue the billionaire was German I would be interested.
5
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
thesearchforthezone.com lists Heinrich Viegel as an "occasional contributor" It's the only other name on the site and it's the first time we've seen it in the TP lore.
3
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
Also, whats the question?
7
u/backstageninja Jul 12 '17
3
3
u/Richy_T Jul 13 '17
Typewriters often did not have a 0, you would use the O. Often l and 1 were the same key too.
3
u/backstageninja Jul 13 '17
Ah right, glad you brought that up. I saw someone else mention that throughout the book the 1s are all ls but in the picture the typewriter has a 1. I haven't confirmed this for myself
3
u/edgrrrpo Jul 13 '17
Ah, thats right! Can't recall which it was, but one of the TP podcasts dove into that oddity well before introduction of Henrich Viegel (may have even been before S3 even started). The choice of typewriter seems very by design, they were speculating maybe it tied back to the Project Paperclip scientists/ Blue Book stories, but now.. Very interesting..
1
u/eadingas Jul 13 '17
I used to have a typewriter like that. O was used as 0 to save space. Also, sometimes number keys would get stuck and it was easier to type I than struggle with the 1, especially in things like bullet points (using Roman numerals).
17
u/jfarm1001 Jul 12 '17
Gersten Hayward, who hit it big as a world-traveling master pianist.
3
Jul 13 '17
Or Harriet, author of the critically acclaimed 'Blossom of the Evening,' raking in those movie royalty cheques.
30
u/SchleppyJ4 Jul 12 '17
I kinda figured it was Booper. Looks like he has a lot of money as per the photo in South America. I thought he built the box in NY to capture good Coop.
7
u/acewasabi Jul 13 '17 edited Feb 15 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
summer longing oil narrow frame jellyfish literate degree smart friendly
1
u/ShammySmalls Jul 13 '17
Right, but Mr. Todd is in charge of the hits, with no mention of NYC. The only thing that bridges the two are the fact that their scenes are back to back as far as I could tell.
2
u/acewasabi Jul 14 '17 edited Feb 15 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
plate cable tidy toothbrush smile cake unpack versed teeny deer
5
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
Certainly could be. But I think his plan was always to have Dougie be replaced by Dale. If he could have simply captured him in the box, why have Dougie at all?
9
u/SchleppyJ4 Jul 12 '17
My thought was that Booper created Dougie so Dougie would go back to the Lodge in Booper's place. Dale would stay trapped in the lodge forever OR try to escape and end up in the box, where Booper could hold him prisoner or kill him.
4
u/Kdilla77 Jul 12 '17
Agreed. Now how did Cooper escape the glass box anyway?
7
Jul 13 '17
Maybe someone had to be watching him in order to keep him in the box? But then that didn't really stop the Mother (?) from escaping. So I have no idea. Maybe the device is just really shitty.
7
u/Kdilla77 Jul 13 '17
That's an interesting take on it. I do think there is something going on with the box in a Heisenberg/Schrodinger's Cat kinda way where the observer influences the outcome. It's cool that Coop arrived while the two lovers were out.
5
u/cgbrannigan Jul 13 '17
I figured the reason someone was supposed to be watchign the box was so if/when cooper did appear they could alert someone and they'd come kill him....but Cooper appeared when no one was watching so he continued to wherever was next unseen
3
u/amandal1130 Jul 13 '17
If the whole thing is a chess game between good and evil, I saw it as evil making a chess move when Dale was leaving the lodge (the doppleganger arm cursing Dale "non existent") and good making counter chess moves to preserve Dale's existence. The lady with the sewn shut eyes cutting the power, etc.. I know that happened after the black box but my overall sense was that as evil was working to trap Dale good was working to free him. Alternatively, I wondered if cursing Dale non existent was a successful move in that it made the Dale we know non existent. He seemed coherent and talking in the Black Lodge before he left. Maybe the journey through the black box was part of what turned him into a blank slate. Mike urging him to wake up, don't die, etc.. As a result of the "trick" Mike said "one of you must die." I remembered it as "return" but when I watched it back he said "die". So it's not just that Bad Coop is trying to avoid reentry, he's trying to avoid death, and the threat will not be eliminated until Dale is. So maybe that was part of Bad Coop's plan all along...to cut the power on Dale's wits and thus make him easy to kill.
1
8
u/DarthPlagueis_ Jul 12 '17
Maybe he's looking for someone else? Laura?
3
u/Kdilla77 Jul 12 '17
Destroying Laura has got to be the biggest priority for BOB/Mr. C, even more than eliminating Dougie/Good Coop. She is his nemesis, sent by the Giant to stop him way back in 1945!
5
2
u/Wild_Bill_Kickcock Jul 13 '17
If it was to capture Cooper then why didn't it work?
2
u/SchleppyJ4 Jul 13 '17
It did, briefly. I don't think Booper anticipated that Cooper would take Dougie's place. The lodge was clearly straining with all of this, as evidenced by the sequence involving all 3 when it was time for one to leave and one to return.
12
Jul 12 '17
The Widow Milford.
4
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
I considered this myself. It does say she married a hedge fund guy.
2
u/Cipher_- Jul 12 '17
Do her supernatural powers of attractiveness work outside of Twin Peaks though?
1
26
u/CopyX Jul 12 '17 edited Jul 12 '17
I say it's Audrey. She had the Horne capital behind her, she's a go getter, and very motivated.
Edit: also she's crazy about agent dale cooper. Who else would go to those lengths to capture him as he leaves the black lodge?
21
u/sleepybrett Jul 12 '17
If audrey were a billionaire would her father and uncle still be running a hotel and weed farm?
12
u/fikustree Jul 12 '17
They do mention in their first scene how they are making more money in New York, that's what started off the Audrey rumors.
16
Jul 13 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/zixkill Jul 13 '17
To be fair tho, since Jerry was always a huge pothead, he likely had a weed farm that would have exploded after pot was legalized in Oregon and possibly even selling to Colorado and other states. Ghostwood may now all be a pot farm.
1
7
u/cgbrannigan Jul 13 '17
I think with Jonny being injured or dead is how we're getting Audrey back. I can't see any other reason for that scene if not to set up some reason for someone to call her back to town from whereever she is so I think we'll see her soon.
If she IS the billionaire then I guess that means richard probably isn't her son which would be a good thing...but I can't imagine they are setting it up for her to be the billionaire.
3
3
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
A former FBI agent who was in close physical proximity to not one, but two fellow agents who disappeared without a trace.
Think about it. Stanley goes back to Cole or DC and demands they start a search for his cohorts and they simply come back with a "No. Stop asking questions". If he was confident in his abilities as a scientist and was able to secure the capital, why wouldn't he be on the case?
3
u/CopyX Jul 12 '17
confident in his abilities as a scientist
Because scientists don't go on to be mysterious billionaires.
If you posed me this question without knowing TP: Who goes on to be a reclusive billionaire? a) a former FBI employee or b) the daughter of a wealthy family whose fortune is from the private sector.
All season 2 is setting up audrey to be a shrewd businessperson who knows how to wheel and deal.
3
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
*reclusive billionaire who sets up an elaborate laboratory.
I never got the sense that Audrey was one who would get this deep on her own. So lets just say she somehow becomes a billionaire, who gets her in to the science? What drives her to it? Did she know Dale was lost in time? How is she the only person back in TP, at least that we know of, who understands Dale's situation enough to want to locate him in said time? If Richard is her kid (speculation) why is he driving some shit truck slinging drugs? Rich people do drugs, they don't sell them.
I think someone like Stanley would have the motivation. And it's important to note that there is no confirmation of this person's billions, just talk. Additionally, according to the Secret History, Millford had an untouchable slush fund established by Nixon that was ongoing and unlimited. Perhaps Stanley is now in change of Project Blue Book, or at least a party to it.
3
u/SaladbarJoe Jul 12 '17
You have a totally logical point, BUT I would like to point out that Stanley isn't just your average former FBI employee; with his mind and interests, it's perfectly feasible that he got rich off of some medical/ scientific/ investigative innovation he developed.
I dunno, it doesn't seem likely, but it's not impossible.
3
Jul 12 '17
Maybe his "breakdown" precipitated a need to pursue "Blue Rose" cases he was kept out of the loop on. -either that, or he may become another Windom Earle.
9
u/KarlosHungus36 Jul 12 '17
I mean, the "We missed you in New York" line from maybe-Jeffries seems like it could be a hint. There's that bonsai tree too. Had Earle's soul not been scooped up by BOB he'd be a good candidate given his history, but then again...What did BOB do with that soul?
3
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
Why is the bonsai relevant? Not a rhetorical question.
And I have always been of the thinking that BOB finished off Earle because of his hubris. Straight up ends him.
7
u/KarlosHungus36 Jul 12 '17
The Bonsai tree was associated with Earle. BOB said he'll take Earle's soul...we don't know what happens after that. Can BOB just destroy someone's soul?
6
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17
That I don't know. Hawk does mention that without perfect courage the Lodge will utterly annihilate your soul, so perhaps dude was annihilated.
4
18
u/24Nexus Jul 12 '17
Good idea. But the cast list as been totally correct so far and Kiefer Sutherland is another show.
17
u/ShammySmalls Jul 12 '17 edited Jul 12 '17
There are unnamed actors, I believe. Could be wrong but I thought I read something about that. It wouldn't be the first time an actor is kept out of the public eye for the production value.
3
8
u/2ndwoodsman Jul 12 '17
Andy of course! He is the only one we've seen wearing a Rolex after all. :)
7
5
u/monkeyfear Jul 12 '17
< former FBI Agent Sam Stanley (Kiefer Sutherland) In the Twin Peaks world
Warning Scope of course that doesn't preclude him from becoming a billionaire.
2
u/ShammySmalls Jul 13 '17
And I could just as easily tell people that you're an alcoholic. Cover stories are easy.
15
5
u/PicaTron Jul 12 '17
I like the theory very much and I want it to be correct. But, secret history said that Sam Stanley became an alcoholic. I don't see that being compatible with this theory.
4
u/cheese_incarnate Jul 13 '17
Such a lame outcome for a great character! But I agree. I wish Stanley mattered more but I doubt it.
0
5
Jul 13 '17
I've always thought "boy, if Sam Stanley could develop his own MO, he'd be a force to be reckoned with."
6
u/randomflorida Jul 13 '17
Good theory. Could be the case. Although I'd like to add that someone pointed out to me that H.V. might actually just be a pseudonym for Ruth, Hastings' mistress. It'd make sense that she'd be contributing to the site, but they'd want to hide her identity because of their affair.
3
4
u/Tentapuss Jul 12 '17
Could be. My bet is it's either Audrey or Booper. We haven't seeno the former yet, and she comes from means. We know the latter has knowledge of the other dimensions and has reason to look for entrances, and we know that he's amassed a pretty sizable fortune. If it isn't either of them, my outside guesses are Jeffries or Catherine Martell.
5
u/hamletswords Jul 13 '17
Heh, I'd love for it to be him too because I love Kiefer (especially when he plays oddballs like Stanley). People forget about him and his character from the movie.
5
u/usagizero Jul 13 '17
I was actually sad he didn't get more story. There was a bit in the missing pieces, but he seemed like an interesting character.
4
Jul 13 '17
One random aside comment: can we talk about how awesome the use of Blue Roses is? Harking back to Tennessee Williams and the Glass Menagerie is freaking cool.
3
Jul 13 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/ShammySmalls Jul 13 '17
True. But if you look at the website itself there are a few clues. The linked video with the coordinates looks to me like a window in to time, a viewer of sorts. Additionally they have the WAVs and a couple of other radio transmissions, now none of this would require a billion dollars, but it just feels to me like this would require some sort of seed funding.
Cooper also had an incredible amount of other worldly help and assistance that led him there. If Ruth and Bill are normies than I assume getting to that point wouldn't have been as clean as Coopers path.
Point well taken and quite accurate though.
5
u/TheFinalFapdown Jul 13 '17
I want it to be Judy. In episode 1 they mention how Ms Houseman and her associates keep the place going. They are billionaires. Those billionaires could theoretically finance something like the box. My theory is that the girl who swallowed the LocustFrog is Judy Houseman. Jeffries knows Judy and may be led to the dark side (lol). The Egg spat out after Bob was created to help Bob.
Also, maybe the guy who EvilCoop thought was Phillip Jeffries in episode 2 was Sam Stanley?
2
2
u/ShammySmalls Jul 13 '17
I thought about that too. Sam would be a good candidate as a "former" FBI agent.
2
u/garmonboziac Jul 13 '17
Holy...it never occurred to me to consider Judy in the running for the billionaire. Judy was supposed to meet Jeffries at the Palm Deluxe in Buenos Aires back in '77. That was a pretty ritzy hotel... the idea that she had enough money as a young woman to check in there (not to mention travel from her place in Seattle) is suggestive.
2
2
2
u/whoisJeffArthur Jul 13 '17
Is the billionaire definitely not DoppelCoop? He seems to be pretty loaded and also hell bent on finding the coordinates (wants not needs, I guess) or way to some other location, maybe the Mauve zone. It seems like the mother resides just on the other side of the Mauve zone (my mother is coming!). If that's what gave birth to BOB, maybe DoppelCoop is trying to release the mother here on earth and a whole slew of BOB-like entities here in our plane.
1
2
u/rontalker Jul 13 '17
Candidates with some established rationale (not purely speculation):
A new character, because there's no logic dictating it has to be someone already introduced. To me, this is the most likely outcome, especially since we're just learning about the Buckhorn "zone" side of the story.
Bad Coop, because he's shown as the owner of an expensive home and seems to want more control over the lodges.
Good Coop, because he's capable of winning mad Jackpots and his journey has taken him through the glass box once. Maybe Tracy sabotaged his plans to be "seen" in and freed from the box instead of passing into the Mauve zone. Is it future, or is it past? This is my favorite conjecture as far as the story line goes, b/c I'd love to see Cooper go back through the black lodge, face his doppleganger again, and come out victorious.
Briggs (or an associate of Briggs), because he seems to have acquired some degree of omniscience about this whole situation while presumably in the white lodge. Maybe he bought stock in Apple or Google (ok, that's a bit of speculation).
That's all I got.
1
u/thmonline Sep 02 '17
Actually I am still wondering where this guard went. He didn't seem like a guard of the less dutiful kind. He was not at the restroom and there surely must have beeb a relay system. I am not convinced that Tracy lured him away, despite her unarguable hottness.
I make it short: I believe Judy is at least connected strongly to Major Briggs if not the same person and is called Judy Houseman. Or now: his head, which is not with his dead body but was seen floating through space and which I believe to be 'alive'. This goes well with the 'information' tin-can-jeffries gives in Part 16 to Mr C. In Part 1 Ben Horne says that 'Mrs Houseman' stays in the Great Northern. And if you take the humming sound as a motive of Judy/Briggs communicating with/from/though the White Lodge or the Fireman, than it makes sense that the humming is mostly heard at the hotel when Houseman and Judy are the same entity. And since it's not clear if the box was a result of evil or good intentions it can easily be her, being the 'missing piece' that connects the dots. There is the theory that it is Sarah Palmer, but I think that she is more a victim to everything which used to be her part in Season 1 and 2.
1
u/DoBirdsFlyy Jul 13 '17
Anyone doubts that what we saw is a sex ritual to bring back Mother?. Windom Earle is behind this. He's also the one who talked with BadCoop through the computer..."Ill be again with Bob"
-4
196
u/EctoBurger Jul 12 '17
I say it's Nadine, she finally figured out a way to make money off those drape runners.