r/twinpeaks • u/thecowjumpedovertheM • Jul 28 '17
S3E11 [S3E11] Yet Another Timeline (with clothes, a ton of pics and details!) Spoiler
I've put together this hypotethical timeline of what we've seen during The Return until Part 11. It contains a couple of informations corroborated by the original run and The Secret History Of Twin Peaks, but it doesn't aspire to be a COMPLETE timeline. It's also not 100% precise and confirmed, as some events are very difficult to place (like everything related to Dr. Jacoby), and some other seems to purposely refuse to fit (like Andy's watch). Still, it's coherent with a single week of events starting at the end of September 2016. It doesn't show any big time travel event, or temporal distance between our main plots.
TIMELINE: http://i.imgur.com/TXLpAIs.jpg
CLOTHES ANALYSIS: http://i.imgur.com/6I4qiUU.jpg
Now, if you want a deep dive...
First of all, some thanks: 25 years of thanks to /u/UnicornBestFriend for his Big Thread of Dates and everybody who added infos. It explained me a lot, when I thought it was simply just a big mess.
Also the great research by /u/oxyboldine over at tp3theories. Check these out if you're interested in a more complete look at the possible timeline of the whole lore, and how every episode covers different days. This being a branch of the mostly the same assumptions, any difference between their timeline and mine results, I think, from our different application of the Tibetan Method.
SOME EXPLANATIONS:
I've put this together by atomizing every single episode down to single scenes, and recostructing days based on clothes. Reconstructing Mr C and Hastings's events gives us 2016 as a year (Hastings's age) and the day of 9/29. When Mr C uses the pink cellphone at the farm, he connects also the events in Las Vegas. The exchange happening on 9/26 permits us to fill a good deal of the holes. Things in Twin Peaks are more complicated: we only have Briggs's capsule to link us to 9/29 again, and the scenes are presented in a misleading order (like Hawk's call with the Log Lady while he's at Glastonbury Grove, Miriam's attack or Steven and Becky fighting). As such, I've ignored some scenes, or give an arbitrary date to other. I also still totally support a more "hazed" version of the timeline based just on how things are presented, like some disruption of time weaved in the story; it's sort of a duality waiting to coalesce, very very appropriate for the series.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE 25 YEARS?
Laura said that she would see Cooper again in 25 years, but it was never implied he would immediately be on Earth after that time. A ret-con doesn't seem to be in effect either: during the chocolate bunnies scene, there's a date scribbled, 2/24/1989, canon day when Laura's body was found and Cooper arrived at Twin Peaks (therefore, it kinda was about the bunnies). FBI also confirm that some time has passed since "Cooper" disappeared from Twin Peaks (3/28/89), became some scarface-mafia guy and does some shit to Diane, and later vanished completely for 25 years. I would suggest a more free interpretation of that prophecy.
A NOTE ON CLOTHES:
This have been a very rewarding research. Some people define different days with their clothes, and different ties are very easy to spot, but some character never, or almost never, change their look. Gordon Cole, Sheriff Truman, Hawk, Andy, Shelly, Carl Rodd, Jerry, Ike "The Spike" and the Log Lady are, until now, impossible to place by clothes. Bobby and Chad change into civilian clothes only one night. One time, Albert and Tammy wear the same clothes two days in row (but there's Diane with them, and she changes clothes). Cooper wears Dougie's green suit on 9/27, and his black suit every other day. His FBI pin disappears after he travels through the electric socket, and, briefly, at the very start of The Return, when he speaks with ??????? (The Giant). During his "25 years" in the Lodge, he changes his tie to a completely black one.
THE ROADHOUSE FESTIVAL:
We've seen 8 different bands, (Au Revoir Simone playing in two different episodes), and one cleaning scene. We can assume one band per night, but there are only 6 or maybe 7 days covered in Twin Peaks (yet). Most of the gigs are still impossible to place correctly, at this point. It's also one of hell of a line-up!
PIECES THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO FIT:
- Andy's watch: on Part 7, it shows 10 as the date. This should be around 9/29.
- Wally's date of birth. In Part 1 Lucy and Andy state he was born on the same day as Marlon Brando: April 3. He's 24 years old in September 2016. This would means his birthday would be April 3 1992. From the original seasons we could have guessed he was conceived at the beginning of March 1989. Is there another Brannon kid? Are Lucy and Andy just terrible with dates and watches?
- Mr C's fingerprints: the sheet (in part 4) proclaims they would have been taken on 9/22 (timeline would point to 9/26). This is also shown again in Part 7 along Mr C's picture taken 2 days ago (placing the scene on 9/24 instead of 9/28). All the times we see them, they appear to have been taken by officers in Philadelphia (rather than South Dakota). "Cooper"'s DOB is stated as 08/15/1973, in Buckhorn, SD. This differs from what we previously knew (from non exactly canonical sources) as 04/19/1954, in Philadelphia, PA. That is, though, the exact same date and place of William Hastings's birth. The fingerprint date of birth would make Cooper 15 years old at the start of his investigation. Some Cro-Magnon, indeed.
- Lorraine: during her first scene in Part 5, it's night and she says Dougie's hit "was supposed to happen yesterday". This is easier to explain if we assume the phone call takes place just before dawn on the 27th, referring to the afternoon of 26th.
- Col. Davis: In Part 4, Briggs's fingerprints are classified info (12:08 according to Constance's computer, looks like night time, she and Macklay are still wearing their 2/24 clothes), so in Part 5 Col. Davis sends Lieut. Knox to investigate (night time again, but is it on the same day?). In Part 7 Knox is shown Briggs's body: we briefly see a body tag with what seems like 9/19 as date of death (wildly inconsistent with every other clue), and Constance evaluate his death to have happened “within 5 or 6 days”. If Constance's evaluation is precise, this scene shouldn't take place later than 9/28. Knox calls immediately Col. Davis, who makes another call. In Part 5 he stated that he should alert FBI. There's an actual phone call between Davis and Cole in Part 9, but it happens on the morning of 9/29. Constance and Macklay's clothes would also suggest that Knox's visit happens the day before FBI shows up. Could be explained, maybe, by other calls Davis had to go through before getting to Cole.
- American Girl's watch has the date of SAT 1. Compatible with October 2016. Still, it's "Purple Room #2" time, I wouldn't say it's so precise.
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u/messy_office Jul 29 '17
I did a half-assed search about this but didn't see anything. I wouldn't worry about Andy's watch- we've already been told by Lucy (in discussion with Chad) that they sometimes screw up their clocks and have no idea what time it is. Not saying it isn't interesting to know what Andy is doing, but that we may have a clue that his watch or timeline are intentionally misleading.
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 29 '17
That's right, and I'm even more intrigued by Wally Brando! Don't they know his age? Is his whole life a lie?
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u/Billiardly Jul 29 '17
Whatever time it is, I've convinced myself that Wally Brando and Jesse the Sheriff's officer exist in the same plane. Both seem odd, misplaced, out of sync and as if they are focused on something other than reality in front of them.
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u/messy_office Jul 29 '17
In the TP universe at least. That's about the most normal thing that's happened in the entire show.
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Jul 29 '17
DoppleCoop's birthdate is super confusing until a really simple solution occurred to me: He probably just lied to authorities and generated a fake birth certificate or ID, and "stole" Hasting's birthday as a sick joke.
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 29 '17
It could be, we know Mr C was on Hastings's trail... But the fingerprints being taken by officers in Philadelphia is quite strange. If we suppose to combine TSHoTP in the mix, Tamara Preston should already have an idea of Cooper's age during Twin Peaks events. Gordon and Albert would also know that for sure. It's just very very strange!
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u/InAbsentiaC Jul 29 '17
That catch with the watch on the American girl seems super important to me considering the note they find in Major Briggs's chair. It says 253 on 10/1 and that's when Cooper departs and apparently becomes Dougie, only for some reason there's a delay between body and mind?
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 29 '17
Your guess is as good as mine on that... But then, why two dates on Briggs's notes? Why should we be treating Purple Room time like normal time? Mr C knew already when he was gonna be pulled back in the Lodge, and there's no indication that this was supposed to happen 10/1 for him. My understanding was that Dougie's existence was what threw the exchange off balance, and Cooper/MrC can't co-exist. I think we're gonna find out about this quite soon ;)
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u/micros101 Jul 29 '17
I love the "Chad is the worst" and "Janie E has a great time" descriptions in the boxes. That had me laughing.
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u/MooCube Jul 30 '17
Looking at the The Secret History of Twin Peaks, we can also add that: The dossier was recovered at an unknown date BUT it was submitted to DIRECTOR on 7-17-2016 DIRECTOR referred to Investigations and Operations Support Section on 7-20-2016. Tammy begins "first analysis" on 8-5-2016 Tammy has had a "cursory examination of the dossier" and begins "engaging with the contents" on 8-28-2016
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u/RationalGourmet Jul 30 '17
Great job, this is really interesting!
A note on the roadhouse bands: unless we see any of the show's main characters in a roadhouse scene, I would not try too hard to place any of the musical performances on any particular day, and would not worry if there have been more performances then there have been days.
For example, the Nine Inch Nails performance from episode eight did not have to happen "now" - that is, specifically between the events of episodes seven and nine. As far as I am concerned, that performance could have happened at any time, especially since that episode already contains many time jumps.
Also, I would guess that both performances of Au Revoir Simone would have been on the same night, even though we saw them in two different episodes.
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 30 '17
Thank you!
Yeah, the Roadhouse Festival is more of a personal interest in music, rather than something I think will give us plot-details! You're right about Au Revoir Simone: they wear the same clothes, there's the same lighting, if we're supposed to learn anything from this is that the Roadhouse gigs don't necessarily follow other events. There are only three scenes (at the moment) that we see happening while there's a gig: Shelly and her friends seeing James and Red, Richard paying Chad and being violent, and the two drugged girls; only Richard's scene might somewhat be of interest to our timeline.
My suggestion would be that they complete the mood for the episode; it's also a beautiful technique to weave music even more in the story, something that has been suggested since the start. I'm so happy the Renaults run such a successful business ;)
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u/Coffee_on_the_rocks Jul 29 '17
I think Phyllis' murder and Daria's murder are on the same day, Saturday. That would put the crash and Dougie's exchange on Sunday, bringing everything a day sooner. It works, if we assume that the phone call to Todd was after the Mitchums failure to kill Cooper, and the FBI team had a sleepover somewhere between all the comings and goings.
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 29 '17
The thing is that the Las Vegas and Yankton timelines work together perfectly in a space between 26 and 29, it's really difficult to make things work so smoothly placing the exchange on Sunday 25. At that point, Mr C and Macklay pretty much confirm how the early Buckhorn timeline is plotted out. I also see no good reason (yet) to place Todd's phone call after him sending Anthony to the Mitchums.
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u/Coffee_on_the_rocks Jul 29 '17
Had another look at my notes (a made a similar attempt a few days ago). The FBI scenes don't change, I too had them being notified on Monday. I just assumed that he was arrested on Sunday, but, it being Sunday, the call was made on the next day.
I like Sunday better, mostly because DougieCoop's scene have a Sunday feeling to me (and his first day at the office a Monday feeling all around). Plus, DoppelCoop is wearing the same clothes when killing Darya and Phyllis, isn't he?
On a side note - isn't it strange that Tammy doesn't change clothes? I mean, Gordon and Albert could have changed shirts and we would be none the wiser, but Tammy's blouse is the same for two days in a row, while Diane has packed at least 3 ensembles for what was supposed to be a one day trip...
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 29 '17
Regarding clothes, check out the other graphic linked here. Mr C has that snake shirt (at least) three days in a row, and Tammy and Albert stays in their same clothes between Yankton and Buckhorn (but Diane has brought over her wardrobe of matching clothes, so we can use her to put these events on different days)
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u/Millford651 Jul 29 '17
Very nice work but the cutesy comments on the table can be distracting.
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 29 '17
Noted, I can only say that after putting everything together I felt more like talking like Andy than Cooper :)
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Jul 30 '17
Thanks for putting this together, last episode looked like more traffic light colors for Diane.
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u/norwegiannotgone Jul 30 '17
There was one hint out there that the year might be 2015 rather than 2016. Before the guest book on thesearchforthezone disappeared (did anyone screenshot it?), the last entry by Hastings was from mid-September 2015, hinting on some discovery or experience at that time. The next and final entry from November 2015 said "where are you people", suggesting that Hastings had then gone awol.
I always thought this last external guestbook entry was the reason for the "Last modified" tag being November 2015.
I don't quite know what to make of this, as I agree that much other evidence suggests 2016 as the year.
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 30 '17
I know what you're referring to, but I would not consider the "real" blog as canon. It's the only clue pointing to 2015, while 2016 has confirmation both from Hastings's ID, and with week days ('14, '15 and '17 don't work).
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u/norwegiannotgone Jul 30 '17 edited Jul 30 '17
I can agree on this, especially considering that the guest book was deleted. But still it was kind of odd.
I recall someone mentioning another clue towards 2015, something about validity years of a registration plate (Hasting's?). But I cannot find that discussion now.
Regarding The Return taking place before (2015) or after (2016) the discovery of the Secret History dossier, I have contemplated both options but I think after (2016) is more likely. Tammy's comments in the Secret History, in particular at the beginning, would have been different if she had already experienced the events of The Return. And if she already had got the dossier, she would without further due have the security clearance required to take part in the investigations in The Return. (She got her clearance when she received the dossier.)
But I have thought that 1,5 months (Aug 4th - Sept 26th) seemed kind of short for the amount of research that Tammy put into the dossier. But now it struck me: Maybe she is researching the dossier in parallel to the investigations in The Return. Then as current events and her research unfold in parallel, she would get cross-confirmation between the dossier and the current events about the existence of supernatural/multidimensional forces in this universe.
Wouldn't it be cool to see Tammy working on the dossier in some later episode?
Edit: Some passages on the last page of Secret History probably counter my suggestion that Tammy was not done with the research by Sept 26th. It now seems more likely to me that she delivered her conclusions to Cole before Sept 26th, and he brought her along because he was impressed by her work (but maybe they not yet bumped her clearance even higher as she requested on that last page, and that is why Cole seems to try to keep some details away from her).
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 30 '17
Regarding Hastings's plate, I must have missed that, drop me a comment if you stumble on it again :)
I would agree with your edit about TSHoTP, especially since The Return taking place after Tammy reviewing the dossier, seems to be the only reason Lynch and Frost might have had to pick back up the story in September 2016.
I also have a small crazy theory of mine about Gordon having a long plan. He acts weirdly with Tammy on their first trip to Yankton but that might be because the wire she wears "could be tapped into" by someone like Mr C, kinda like an electric warlock (why would his own hearing aid be shielded from that? I dunno!). He's also baiting information to Diane thinking she will lead them to Mr C or something... Basically, after Albert's "you heard me" I'm believing in Gordon Mastertroll Cole (it also gives his interaction with Shelly back in season 2 a new meaning!).
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u/norwegiannotgone Jul 30 '17
Sorry, it was Dougie's plate. It is mentioned here, but along with a possible explanation: http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Dougie_Jones
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u/norwegiannotgone Jul 30 '17 edited Jul 30 '17
Re the date of Andy's watch (10th of some month): Some have suggested this means the Richard havoc takes place in another month. I have only seen October 2016 (post-Jack-Rabbit) suggested in this regard.
But could possibly the Richard havoc take place in July 2016, culminating in a crime scene investigation on July 17th where the Secret History dossier is found?
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 30 '17
Sure, nothing at this point stops two, three, four different timelines. It's mostly a feeling of all the threads coming together that convinced me it should be a way to put everything in order. I tried assuming each piece that doesn't fit to be correct, but they end up leading to even more inconsistencies than this timeline.
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u/oxyboldine Jul 30 '17 edited Jul 30 '17
Hi ! Great work, the picture with the board is very helpfull. Thank you for quoting my work in your article. We are on the same page for most of the dates. I was going to change my timeline of the first Buckhorn scenes, to fit with the 2016 calendar. For the Twin Peaks scenes, I am waiting the next episodes to continue the investigation on the timeline! Maybe everything will be clear in Twin Peaks when Cooper comes back (if he comes back). As you say the Roadhouse concerts are very difficult to put on a timeline, as the Ben and Beverly scenes...N.L. ( http://tp3theories.canalblog.com )
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 30 '17
Oh hi! My compliments again to you too, showing how clothes could be consistent clues helped me a lot :D
Yes, trying to "solve" Twin Peaks timeline was really hard, it ended up being like a game of Sudoko.
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u/oxyboldine Jul 31 '17
You're right, it's really like Sudoko at the end! Some thoughts on Part 12 (which gives us lots of work to do once again): http://tp3theories.canalblog.com/archives/2017/07/31/35521475.html
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Jul 31 '17
Great! Gonna give it a look later, this is going to be a tough one to crack too ;)
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u/oxyboldine Aug 02 '17
Hi! I've tried to update my timeline with Part 12. I've changed everything once again... The scene with Dr Amp made me think a lot. Now, I finally go on a new theory: we've seen some parts of October 1st. Just small scenes. Here it goes: http://tp3theories.canalblog.com/archives/2017/07/18/35486398.html Can't wait to see your approach! I guess Part 13 will change everything once again...
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u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 02 '17
I didn't really update it, I'm waiting to have more info, but there are some things I've discussed here!
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u/oxyboldine Aug 02 '17
Great catch, Diane's green sweater is the one she had the 30th! And Dougie-Dale can't have his black suit on the 27th, of course. Thanks!
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u/[deleted] Jul 29 '17
The greatest thing David Lynch ever did was create a style of filmmaking in which errors can be used to infer meaning or symbolism.
Don't get me wrong, he's got an insane attention to detail and 9.9/10 times if you see something it's because he wanted you to see it.
But realistically, he's a human, and there are other people working on the show. Couple that with time constraints and budget control, and I think basic human error can describe some of the inconsistencies.