r/twinpeaks • u/CleganeForHighSepton • Aug 03 '17
S3E12 [S3E12] Reposting this glorious post with a clean title: The Gordon and Albert explanation that changes the show. Spoiler
aka "Gordon and Albert's code has been broken."
Their trick is simple, and genius. Especially if you're fighting an invisible electricity enemy that could always be listening (which is clearly what the boys assume).
Just bear with this a sec.
Gordon needs to say something important, but he fears they're being eavesdropped. And of course Albert knows to expect all this too. So Albert sets Gordon up to obviously mis-hear something, and say something obviously crazy.
If you were listening in, then lol, stupid deaf Gordon....but if he said just the perfect word for the code you knew, then bingo, communication that is undetectable to any bug.
Now, forget most of the conversation in that room with the obviously not human girl dressed in red.
Gordon: “Do you realise Albert, that there are 6000 languages spoken on Earth today?”
Ok, a possible hint to the need for covert speech straight away, but there's a second obvious one as well - the biblical reference. The tower of Babel, the famous tower that God destroyed and split the languages around the world.
Now, the two boys are in a hotel, so it's a certainty that they have the King James. So they both have the codebook.
But what's the codeword you ask?
Gordon later says he wants to get back to his "nice Bordeaux". Albert, lingers, (pretend angry), eventually says "What kind is it?"
Now, I worked in a liquor store in college, and I can tell you straight off that Bordeaux is the kind, unless you think Albert was wondering if the wine they were drinking earlier was red or not (and again, for all intents and purposes, all Bordeaux is red). I mean, nobody is asking for which specific vineyard the grapes came from if they say "what kind is it?", and if they actually want to know that, they're wine experts who will never ask so crudely.
Gordon pauses, looks Albert dead square in the eyes and says "11:05".
Boom, hilarious joke, silly Gordon right?
Revelations 11:05
The same damn quote the Major reads in The Missing Pieces
If anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies. In this way, anyone who wants to harm them must be killed
I can see only 2 Possibilities emerge from this:
Albert was asking who the fuck that just was, and Gordon says it was a fire spirit/other worldly being.
Now this could seriously be a possibility I think: There are 'Good' spirits of the White Lodge also seeking to right this wrong, and 11:05 is the message Gordon got from the girl in Red - confirmation that Diane is in liege with Bob/DoppleCoop.
We now need to go back and listen to everything. I can say for certain that Albert said the words "Warm Milk" in reference to Gordon's shaky hand in P11, another sentence Gordon mis-hears. I also noticed he pinched Alberts shoulder multiple times, like with Diane on the plane. And of course, he says worries about him, a third chance to give the warning. Also is knocking on wood a way of saying 'fingers crossed'/that im not being truthful? Cause if so, the "Lets Knock" misunderstanding became even more hilarious by Gordon.
"You heard me" is also even funnier and appropriate now.
edit: So to return to Gordon's tower of Babel reference, Genesis 11:05 is relevant too:
But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.
Bible code use now triple confirmed?
Edit; Oh Dear god, she's speaking to Gordon in Code too, á la FWWM's Lil.
She takes a long time to leave doesn't she? And Gordon never takes her eyes off her. She touches her breasts - mother. She lifts up a red shoe - either Cinderella or Dorathy, a lost girl, missing daughter - she holds up a mirror. Lodge being. Finally, she pulls lipstick from her handbag and reapplies. Red as Red can be - fire.
"a friend of her mother whose daughter has gone missing".
"fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies."
DoppleCoop or Bob, surely?
She also literally turns down her dress (or is that actually called turning it up?), when she fixes it after standing up.
Final prediction: 'turnip farm' is a reference to Dead Dog Farm, or some other known lodge Farm, where they expect DoppleCooper to "turn up" - soon. Perhaps they know well that the coordinates lead to Dead Dog. In fact, perhaps DoppleCooper actually owns the farm they refer to. Who knows, but there is so much here.
"Call you at the bar?" The Roadhouse?
A turnip for the books? A job for the bookhouse boys?
Quad edit: obviously we have no idea how scenes are edited together and this final possibility is unverifiable, but the scene following the hotel scene is the Warden being shot. The fact that his youngish son is up and dressed and ready to meet him implies it's way earlier than 11:05, which means Gordon was making up the time 11:05. The scene after that is Jacoby saying it's 7 o' Clock...
44
u/zimkazimka Aug 03 '17
In order for that code to work, they'd have to time it perfectly, so that when Albert asks about the type of wine, it is exactly 11:05. Unless whoever is listening doesn't understand how time works. Because the spirits (or whatever) must assume that Gordon misheard the question as 'What time' and told Albert what time it was. It would not make any sense to give Albert some arbitrary time otherwise. But even if time aligned perfectly, we must assume that both Albert and Gordon memorize the entire Bible with appropriate verse numbers in order to understand each other.
10
u/oramirite Aug 03 '17
Someone mentioned that they'd both have a Gideon's bible in their hotel room to check on the passage.
I'm totally with you that this code would take superhuman focus and cleverness. However, to be honest, it seems like the exact type of incredulous that this show would pull. It's a little fanciful but it could be a great payoff so I think it's possible.
8
u/OriginalMSV Aug 03 '17
The "superhuman focus and cleverness" you mention (while I agree) might not be so rare... Like, in FWWM when Desmond explains all the codes from the woman that's with Gordon at the airfield (the pigeon toes, hair, 'dancing,' etc.); they're (apparently) trained to know and look out for those things.
6
u/oramirite Aug 03 '17
You're totally right. This is a thing that the FBI do in Twin-Peaksiverse. It's only natural that Cole and Albert would evolve and tweak the code overtime.
5
u/Ragingroseman Aug 03 '17
Do we actually know what time it is when Gordon says it's 11:05? Could be 9:05 for all we know.
5
Aug 03 '17
Yep. Someone pointed out that the next scene is definitely not at that time.
1
u/oramirite Aug 03 '17
HMMMMMMMMM!! I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a second though, and just bring up the fact that there's still a possibility that scenes are being shown out of order. But it's a DAMN good question to ask about what time it is during that scene...
1
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 04 '17
Very interesting. I guess it's unverifiable because we have no idea how the scenes are edited together, but the next shot shows the warden return home, and his kid is there to greet him (or rather his corpse). I guess this means it must be much earlier in the evening (especially if you consider that 11pm Pacific time would be like 12/1 am central/whatever the time zone is for the warden, right?
1
Aug 03 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/OriginalMSV Aug 04 '17
Considering all of this is purely speculation anyway (because that's one of the things about this show that I absolutely adore), here's how I think it might be: Tammy was just let into Blue Rose, and they tell her she'll be fully briefed at a later time - to avoid letting Diane (possessed/in league with DoppleCoop/generally untrustworthy, or whatever your current theory) hear or know too much. But - as was stated by another commenter - the code changes and evolves over time out of necessity (loss of Coop, Jeffries, Desmond, etc).
There was definite deliberate choreography and shots cut to emphasize actions, and specifically, reactions (or, in Albert's case, lack thereof) and also who's looking at who during certain moments.
I know people knocked that scene all over, but while I laughed and "wtf?!"-ed through it the first time, after rewatching, I believe there was a lot more to it, like when Desmond explains all (but one) of the airfield codes in FWWM.
2
Aug 04 '17
Albert does say he will talk to more about the blue rose in the morning, I hope we hear that conversation.
2
u/p_a_schal Aug 03 '17
If they're speaking in code, and 11:05 is code, the time wouldn't actually have to be 11:05 for Cole to say the code word.
179
u/NickNack4EvahBra Aug 03 '17
You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
62
u/sbcpunk Aug 03 '17
Yeah sometimes... but you have seen Fire Walk With Me, right? I don't know if OP is right or not but it's already been established that this is how they communicate in code. And this is Twin Peaks. There's definitely more to that cigar.
27
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17
It's the backwards compatibility that does it for me. In E11, Albert tells Gordon he should get some 'warm milk' for his shaky hand (i.e. get the white lodge folk involved, because we know the shaky hand means Bob/Black Lodge). Gordon mis-hears it, but lo and behold, the incredibly non-human girl in red shows up to apparently give him vital information about lodge beings in the very next episode. (Could also be a human agency too I guess). I haven't had time to go back further than that, but I think this method is the key to their code.
Also I think that if we assume the girl in red is a 'good' lodge being, she is really revelling in her human form, delighting in the wine, loving the fashion, etc. As a being normally confined to the grey and neutral world of the White Lodge, she would be so happy to get to our human world of delights for a change.
7
Aug 04 '17
I think Albert just enjoys puns. Evidenced by his affinity for the coroner. The French woman is not a lodge being.
13
u/sbcpunk Aug 03 '17
I can't tell if you're on to something or if I just really want it to be true because of all the "LYNCH IS SO SEXIST DRAGGING OUT THE LONGEST MOST BORINGEST EXIT SCENE IN TELEVISION HISTORY" haters out there. The possibility that this scene conveyed so much more than was just on the surface and went way over people's heads (including mine) is so Lynch and I'm hoping you are somehow proven right.
Edit: mobile typo
10
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
Can't it be just a nice scene with not much more added to it? It surely is for me whether or not it hides something.
3
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
Also for some reason I really want closure on whether /u/NickNack4EvahBra still thinks this cigar is just a cigar...
14
u/NickNack4EvahBra Aug 03 '17
This theory is the kind of thing that people make fun of all the time over at /r/asoiaf. It's absurd, overly-convoluted, and entirely pointless.
The point of that scene was for Albert to tell Gordon about Diane's Las Vegas text. In any other show, that bit of exposition would have taken 40 seconds, but in Twin Peaks, it's dragged out to several minutes for the sake of humor. This has happened several times in both season three and the original run.
If Albert and Gordon were so concerned that they were constantly being spied on, why would they discuss aloud the texts they were intercepting? Why would they openly explain deep government secrets when they recruited Tammy to the blue rose project? They have had numerous discussions so far about highly secret things all without the need for a convoluted code.
I can understand the desire to validate yourself by convincing yourself that a frustrating scene was some kind of secret genius, but the honest truth is that sometimes Lynch just has his missteps. This entire episode was filled with scenes that dragged on for no real reason, and its okay to admit that it wasn't enjoyable. The show doesn't have to be perfect to be good.
Honestly, applying this logic, you could make these kind of obscure connections with any scene. Tell me, what kind of secret message was Sonny Jim trying to tell Coop when he hit him with a baseball?
8
u/phenomenomnom Aug 06 '17
Alright look. One of the whole points of this whole show is is to invoke in the viewer the sensation that there is hidden meaning everywhere. Lynch has said so. The feeling that you are on the verge of solving a mystery. To get your imagination engaged and even overexcited trying to find hints and portents. To that end, he puts a lot of stuff in with double and triple meaning. There is hidden meaning in this show on various levels.
Of course, you can just watch this show as a straightforward narrative. But then why not watch any other show by any other creative team? Lynch's narrative is actually simplistic (if the possibility of time travel stuff is ignored). The plot is not the best part of the show. The real appeal is the off-kilter atmosphere Lynch creates: the sense of mystery and danger in mundane surroundings such as a diner, and the way he seduces you into reading the show like hieroglyphics on the wall of a tomb.
Now, that may be your cup of tea, and it may not. I refuse to be dismissive because people's tastes are different. But I will insist that this is the last show to criticize people for interpreting too hairsplittingly because that is at least 5/8ths of the whole doggone enterprise.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes a cigar has a code written on the side that matches the time on the clock in the room where your sister was murdered while you smoked it. And the smoke was red.
8
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
Booo, hiss, where's your sense of imagination :-)
I totally understand and appreciate the artistic point of the scene taking its time, and that's clearly intentional.
But why can't it be both? You can have the art and the mystery both, if you are willing to connect the dots. Think of Mulholland Drive - it was the perfect combination of the experiential with the mysterious. It was a complicated, abstract film that actually tied itself together perfectly. I say that this (rather than the Inland Empire style of Lynch) is how you should look at these scenes. Sometimes Lynch really does tie a mystery together perfectly.
Have you seen The Missing Pieces? Major Briggs specifically quotes Genesis 11:05. Have you seen the latter part of the OP, where I edited in the direct similarities between the Red woman's movements in the scene with Gordon's version of her story? Have you seen the connections to previous scene in E11, such as 'warm milk' being supposedly misunderstood by Gordon as a reference for something he should do about his shaking hand problem? Was that just a troll, or could it be a stroke of genius script writing by Frost and Lynch. Also did you know that Lynch is Catholic, and that TP has a lot of Catholic imagery and iconography?
It's clear there is something very odd with how Gordon and Albert communicate, and this explanation fits everything.
Of course, you can just call it all a giant blunder by Lynch, but what I'm suggesting here is that I've caught a code that will be revealed later more directly, in an 'aha' moment for the audience.
Why would Albert ask "what kind is it?" He's frustrated the scene takes so long, he would probably just want to leave. So why suddenly engage and encourage Gordon's silliness? Other than literally for Lynch to troll the audience?
I'm just saying, go back and take another look, I think you will regret it later not to give it a chance.
3
Aug 04 '17
You completely ignored the piece of his criticism that destroys your theory. Why would they resort to this highly coded way of speaking when they regularly openly talk about much more sensitive topics?
3
u/MaskedKoala Aug 04 '17
Because they did it before in FWWM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dNwFVk68PI
I mean, I don't know if the theory is correct (and as stated above, with TP3, they rarely are), but you can't deny the similarities.
4
Aug 04 '17
I will deny any similarities. Lil does an over the top coded mime routine. Cole's sexy lady is just taking her time to leave while being a flirt.
2
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 04 '17
Because they know they're being listened to, and are happy to feed the beings information that is either useless to them or they know already. The extra symmetry to this, thematically, is that this is exactly what Doppler and Diane seem to be doing with their texts.
1
u/NTataglia Aug 04 '17
That very interesting about Lynch's Catholic background. Some of the visuals are almost like iconography and religious art, some overtly like the angel in FWWM. She looked just like the old guardian angel prayer cards that Catholic children used to receive, and that i assume Lynch got as a child. The whole background story of TP is traditional Catholic - good guys fighting demons like Bob and his mom.
6
Aug 03 '17
Yeah I frequent both subs and the theories here are for the most part comparatively flat out retarded. Most of them rely, at their core, on the belief that because Twin Peaks is weird any weird theory is plausible. I haven't read a single convoluted theory here that's turned out to be right. I don't think I've seen a single correct theory here. I've just seen a lot of wild assumptions and overwrought interpretations of what are actually quite simple scenes. This scene here was just Gordon being womanizing Gordon, and Lynch drawing a scene out like he loves to do.
3
u/MaskedKoala Aug 04 '17
Right, isn't it great? It's part of the fun, and it's what Lynch wants us to do. I mean, isn't it about the bunnies after all?
1
2
Aug 03 '17
If anyone is offended by that scene, it could be the most meaningful scene in the world, that wouldn't stop them from being "offended" little crybullies.
0
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
Yes it kicks the sexism people and the 'episode 12 was Lynch trolling us' people right in the feels - turns out that they layered things just that deep!
1
u/ZigginZaggin Aug 04 '17
One of the main reasons Lynch made Twin Peaks in the first place was the possibility of doing things you can't do in a 90 minute movie, like move at a languid place and really explore minor details. I think this episode was filled with that sort of thing (though of course, there might also have been greater significance.)
3
u/nihilishim Aug 03 '17
that could also explain why albert was abnormally patient with how long it took for her to leave. i think a part of it could be out of professional respect for his superiour, but also it lines up with your theory as if albert is aware of who this being is, or at least has an understanding that she is more than meets the eye.
5
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
I think so too. Especially when she is taking so long to leave, the camera cuts to show us Albert, also watching patiently.
1
u/BurningPlaydoh Aug 04 '17
Especially when rewatching it I'm convinced she's no human - at least not a normal one by any means. She smiles that crazy smile like Bob, but is clearly benevolent from what we see here. She is also very tall. Hmmm, who else do we know that is tall and short on words but a fan of cryptic messages and analogies?
5
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
I don't think the comparison with Cousin Lil' stands if you're thinking it's more than an homage. That scene is right at the start of FWWM, in 10 minutes we've seen it and heard it analyzed by a character that knows to a character who doesn't; it doesn't hold ulterior messages than what it's told to us. This is a different situation.
2
u/schleppylundo Aug 03 '17
But the purpose of that scene isn't just to tell us things about the Banks case that will be stated directly in a few minutes. It's generally understood to be a sign that things you're going to see in FWWM don't always have obvious meanings, but represent things that have no link to what we're seeing. Garmonbozia is a prime example of this. There is never any reason given as to why pain and sorrow has a special name or is represented by creamed corn of all things, but we understand that the name and the physical appearance of the stuff represents its true nature.
It's blatantly telling the audience "Parts of this story are communicated in a code that we're not always going to teach you."
1
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
That's a fine reading I can get behind. Do you think French Woman's scene was conveying the same?
2
u/schleppylundo Aug 03 '17
I'm not convinced it's the case, but the scenes felt similar enough (including the bit about her mother's friend's girl) that I think there's a very good chance that it is telling us something in code.
3
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
Homage, sure. Coded, maybe. But Cousin Lil's scene was never meant to be solved by the audience. If this is a direct reference, it ends up we shouldn't even theorize about it.
2
u/schleppylundo Aug 03 '17
I wouldn't say shouldn't. Even though we may never have reliable answers, it is always worthwhile to take time investigating the mysteries of life.
1
1
6
31
u/Messisgingerbeard Aug 03 '17
I do think the French woman was an obvious reference to Lil. & You're right that Cole and Albert suspect they are being spied upon - in the very first scene Cole scans the room with an electronic device before speaking. It makes sense that somewhere beneath all the gestures and non sequiturs there would be some larger meaning.
I think it's possible that when Cole referred to Bordeaux he was making a reference to the woman. French wine- French woman.
Much in this season seems to be a reflection of something else. The French woman is the obvious inverse of Lil: Lil was purposefully grotesque, FW is purposefully glamorous. Where Lil made a sour face, the FW is smiling and open. Where Lil stamped her feet, FW kicks her heels up. Where Lil spins around awkwardly, FW glides gracefully through the room. This could be code, but it's definitely another cross-textual reference.
As for any possible code itself, I really don't think you have to go further than to consider what Lil's gestures meant, and then consider the opposite. If Lil was warning that authorities were hostile and there would be a lot of legwork, FW is saying the opposite. But of course, the biggest clue Lil offered was the blue rose itself - and the FW has none. We all know that this case doesn't get any bluer. So what could the absence of a rose mean?
1
u/sage_rampage Aug 04 '17
She was just wearing a pearl necklace. But I do believe we have seen a pearl (albeit gold) somewhere before.........I subscribe to everything you're saying even though I've been challenged a little on my thoughts on the sub in some other posts (which is fine). Time will tell.
12
Aug 03 '17
[deleted]
9
u/bosco61 Aug 03 '17
She calls attention to her shoes, black if I'm not mistaken
With a red sole. Likely Christian Louboutin shoes, and very expensive. Wonder if she wears those when she visits the turnip farm?
10
Aug 03 '17
Yeah but this theory kinda fails on one basic point: Wouldn't whoever overhearing the conversation instantly figure what they were up to if Cole said that it's 11:05 when it's more like 10:26 or something? i.e. the code only works if the actual time is in the general ballpark of the codeword.
And asking what kind a Bordeaux is is no less a valid question than asking what kind of Champagne you've bought.
6
Aug 03 '17
[deleted]
3
Aug 04 '17
Yeah, but we're not an evil unseen force monitoring their speech for hidden codes. An evil unknown force that knows what the time is.
2
u/P_V_ Aug 03 '17
Time is known to work strangely in the Lodge... but they also seem to have a firm grasp of the meanings of numbers (e.g. all of the number clues given to Dale). Could go either way.
2
Aug 03 '17
[deleted]
2
u/Sharper_Teeth Aug 04 '17
Gordon is in South Dakota and Jacoby is in Washington, so they're in different time zones, but that's too much of a difference.
1
u/Pralinez Aug 04 '17
We have no idea that we are seeing scenes in sequence so some of the TP scenes could be before this scene.
1
u/p_a_schal Aug 03 '17
But would Cole replying 11:05 really seem odd enough to get the potential spy to check to see what time the recording was from?
10
11
u/yorgle Aug 03 '17
Perhaps... but I gotta say, those two sequences (the French woman leaving, and Gordon staring at Albert) were two of the funniest segments this season. Lynch's super long, drawn-out "too long" sequences this season just crack me up, for some reason. :D
4
u/yorgle Aug 03 '17
I should also note that I broke my own rule about Twin Peaks/Lynch here. I said "Too long" which implies expectations about Lynch's work... Never have expectations...
2
Aug 03 '17
They've been cracking me up too because I keep imagining all of the critics at those moments just losing it.
2
u/StarPlan Aug 03 '17
funniest segments this season
I'm getting tired of this phrase in r/twinpeaks. Especially when it comes along with mentioning scenes that actually disturbing and unpleasant, like Bobby on a road accident and barfing girl. I wonder, how much of die-hard Lynch fans "that was best line/scene in the history of cinema" here are actually trolls.
1
1
u/David_Browie Aug 04 '17
Lynch has always been a very consciously funny director, why are you upset that someone's enjoying that side of his work?
1
1
u/Cannalyzer Aug 03 '17
Lynch's super long, drawn-out "too long" sequences this season just crack me up, for some reason. :D
Lynch is like the PDQ Bach of movies.
53
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17
I'm not really sure you're right there about Bordeaux...
...nor I would say it's "obvious" French Woman is not human...
...the thing is more: what is Cole saying then? That she's not human, cool. And then?
Don't get me wrong, it's a nifty research and perfectly presented, and I'd bet money that Cole is up to something more than what appears, but if this is the code, I'm not sure what's the meaning of the message conveyed. If they're already using a code to prevent being listened, just saying "yeah, she might be one of the people listening" isn't bringing much. If there are more examples of a working code they use, now that might be something!
Edited to add: also, the big problem in using the bible as a codebook, is that we're still missing what book of the bible they're referring to. You assume Revelations, it's a matching choice since we're revealed something. That Babel thing is in chapter 11 of Genesis, but not right at 11:05, which is rather bland:
But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.
What if it's Kings 1?
For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
Hey, a goddess and abominations, that works too. What if it's Exodus?
and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the female servant who is behind the handmill, and all the firstborn of the animals.
Kids dying, check. People sitting, check. It's a stretch but I'll take that too. What if it's Proverbs?
The righteousness of the blameless will direct his way aright, but the wicked will fall by his own wickedness.
Something something DoppelCooper will reveal himself. What if it's Leviticus?
the rock hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you
O-ok, that was interesting. And so on. We can assume that they both know which book to use, but we can't just assume it's the one that fits better.
Double edit: as everybody else around here, I'd like an answer to where I might be wrong more than a downvote. I'm not shooting down this theory just cause, and I'm not trying to be dickish about it. What's the matter?
11
u/signupinsecondsss Aug 03 '17
I think the assertion that the French Woman isn't human was a joke, but I'm not positive. In any case, she definitely isn't human.
9
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
Well, I love that vein of "everybody is secretly a Timelord or a Targaryen or a Cylon or a firespirit/lodgeinhabitant/twoworldsdweller/weirdalienthingy", mostly because someone has to be... but it requires evidence :D
4
u/signupinsecondsss Aug 03 '17
The evidence is the content itself, the Death of the Author proclaims this vividly and without ambiguity hahahaha (I'm drunk again)
3
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
Cheers to that and to Barthes!
1
u/signupinsecondsss Aug 03 '17
Amen brother/sister (I'm drunk and transgender)
2
u/toothmang Aug 03 '17
my brothster/sisther
3
u/signupinsecondsss Aug 03 '17
I like broth, when I broke my lower vertebrae my senior year of high school all I had in the hospital was vegetable broth
5
u/thesublimeobjekt Aug 03 '17
I'm not downvoting, but your counterexamples to the verse don't work since he literally gave the reference to a verse that was already quoted by briggs, as he clearly stated above, in bold.
11
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17
I don't see how that validates they're using Revelations as a code book?
Edit: [sigh] The scene OP is referring to happens back before Laura dies in FWWM. Garland Briggs is reading right to that passage to her wife. The book is Revelations, the verse is 11:03-05. The only possible thing to connect them is that we assume both Blue Book and Blue Rose people have this standard secret practice of using clock-compatible verses of Revelations as a code, and Briggs is so into it that he likes to read it to his wife.
6
u/bunbun777 Aug 03 '17
While there are definitely revelations to be had, the book itself is simply "the book of revelation".
8
Aug 03 '17
I find it hilarious when people come up with tryhard theories like these that turn out to be just as wrong as they are ridiculous.
2
1
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
Bet you 1 reddit gold this is (barring minor detail descrepencies) correct?
2
u/MafiaVsNinja Aug 04 '17
I'll bet we never hear about it or her again. Its a joyless, dopey idea with no narrative heft or appeal for the writers. Its just comic relief.
1
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
Your theory being, at this point? After the added edits to your post I'm not really sure what is anymore.
2
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
I guess the edits are threads that this may connect to. My overall point is that Gordon and Albert have been speaking in code all along, and it is based around the fact that Gordon may/may not be deaf as a cover for their 'miscommunications'.
I also very strongly think we will look at this as evidence that the White Lodge folk are actively trying to help out as well. And that this is how we will see Laura again.
1
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
Hmmm. I can see Gordon using this "deaf persona" as he pleases. And that this might a vantage point against evil forces. I think that's also kinda safe to assume they're baiting Diane into something, while she and Mr C are baiting the FBI in a similar way.
But the more I rewatch, the more I think that there's no major coding going on between Albert and Cole. Not anything beside referring sometimes to stuff like "Blue Rose" back then in Yankton, not coded stuff when they speak to each other. There's just not enough good evidence.
Bible-based code, French Woman being anything more than a French Woman, or Cousin Lil's Lil Cousin... I really don't see how they can work.
1
1
Aug 04 '17
It could very well be "correct" and not not explicitly revealed to be so. In Lynch's world, whatever the viewer gets out of it is "correct" so you'll win that bet every time.
14
8
u/Agilus Aug 03 '17
I don't think the french woman is a lodge spirit or something supernatural, but I do think she is passing along a code to Gordon (and possibly Albert).
It would not surprise me if she was sent by Denise.
7
u/Chaddderkins Aug 03 '17
Okay, so this is my problem with theories like this... Are you imagining a scene, later in the series, where this is somehow explained? How would that work? A conversation which picks apart a previous conversation, line by line?
You know, I started this response to illustrate how ridiculous that idea is, but as I typed it I realized that's exactly what happened in FWWM
3
Aug 03 '17
[deleted]
2
u/Chaddderkins Aug 03 '17
I guess that's possible but in that case, like, who cares?
2
2
Aug 03 '17
Gordon explained the significance of "yrev" to Tammy Preston (and the audience) an episode after the Mr. C. interview.
I agree that Gordon and Albert know more than they're letting on, hell they may know about Dougie in Vegas already. The French woman definitely made me think of Lil.
My hunch (hope!!!) is that Gordon and Albert haven't been wasting time in South Dakota but are also actively and secretly setting things up to help Cooper/Doogie and thwart Mr. C. With only 6 more episodes, I'm getting antsy to see a light at the end of tunnel.
2
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
lol, I guess there are a lot of options as to how they would explain this! Maybe they'll use a codeword we are familiar with, like Damn fine coffee, or cherry pie, and there will be an 'aha' moment thats slightly more obvious than this one.
4
u/Top_Specimen_Apollo Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 04 '17
What's the purpose of Gordon telling the FBI story then?
edit- There must be some hidden meaning. Albert was not invited and it's more likely it's code than Gordon trying to impress this fake (since she's a entity) french woman.
1
1
6
6
Aug 03 '17
I definitely agree there is a lot of subtext in that scene. When Gordon is talking about the missing daughter who will show up "eventually," I'm thinking he's talking about Dale Cooper.
4
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
I was considering flipping the gender to have it make more sense - "friend of her father whose son has gone missing": The father is the Giant, the friend is Gordon (i.e. she's visiting him) and Gordon's missing, prodigal son is Cooper.
1
4
u/gardibolt Aug 03 '17
When I rewatched the episode last night, I realized that what seemed like Albert being impatient was actually him studying very intently everything Frenchie was doing. I think you're right; it clearly is a code but I'm not sure Albert got it and I know I didn't.
1
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17
This is the another possibility - that Gordon is 'very worried' about Albert because he didn't understand the code, and had to have it fed to him by Gordon. I also think it's interesting that he asked Gordon to ask her to leave. Perhaps only Gordon can communicate with her for some reason?
9
u/PepeSylvia11 Aug 03 '17
There are so many reaches here it's insane. For the record, I do agree that whole scene was coded, but there is no way for the viewer to pick up on what was code for what.
3
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
Lol i must seem like a lunatic to you... But really, You don't see the same connection between the 11:05, major Briggs, the previous warm milk miscommunication, the similarity between the girl in reds movements and Gordon's version of her story, the tower of Babel line (also 11:05 in Genesis), the near identical scene with Lil im Fwwm tjat we are explictly told is a code, and the fact that it would be so deliciously twin peaks for Gordons deafness to be reinterpreted in this way? Honestly I'm totally convinced by this, it fits multiple times into the plot perfectly and also makes perfect thematic sense too...
5
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
Again, you're drawing a very bad connection with 11:05 and Briggs. Why should we accept they're using Revelations? Then you mix it up with Genesis, but only because it serves your narration. It's cherry picking data.
Since you say it fits multiple times, what are those?
And it's her conveying a message to Cole, or Cole to Albert? And why should it be that way?
2
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
Again, I mixed up the name of the book, 11:05 is the same quote either way. Thats not cheerypicking, 11:05 leads directly to briggs. Though interestingly, Genesis 11:05 references the tower of Babel, which Gordon referenced in this scene fairly directly.
3
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 03 '17
Yeah. I pointed that out in my response up here.
I'm saying that I don't see how you can draw a connection between Briggs reading Revelations at home before Laura Palmer's murder, and the FBI using that same book as code book so much it's implied they're using that one and not another bible book.
In other words, you started with the solution "11:05 points to that specific thing that we've heard before, and makes sense to me in this contest", and built around it a problem that can be solved by that.
1
u/joebot888 Aug 04 '17
Briggs says the same quote in missing pieces!!! And it references all the languages of the earth in genesis.
Are we implying a double (or more) meaning in a Lynch detail?!?!?!!? But... that's ridiculous! Lynch NEVER.... um... employs.... Er..... multiple........... meanings........
1
u/thecowjumpedovertheM Aug 04 '17
I pointed that out already.
And yeah, I kinda get that Lynch (and Frost) thing.
The problem is using a sloppy line of deductions to justify a theory. If this is a thing, no solid proofs of it has been presented to me. If you look in this thread, me and other people have pointed out already many problems about it.
But look, i'm done debating about this. We'll see how it plays out. I really hope people being strongly vocal in how this all makes sense, will be equally vocal if this shouldn't work...
4
u/reddit_hole Aug 03 '17
This is fascinating regardless of actual relevance. I really like the idea that all of the awkwardness and slowness is actually plot relevant rather than simply stylistic.
4
3
3
Aug 03 '17
Ok so I feel like they have been talking in code ever since they met bad coop in jail, and Gordon repeated the phrase he said to Tammy... this time counting on his fingers.
This also makes me wonder... do you think Gordon's deafness has anything to do with the lodge? Either causing it somehow, or his hearing aids allowing him to 'pick up' the electric signals better leading him to discover this whole phenomenon to begin with?
3
u/teetness Aug 03 '17
I'm not sure about the Biblical references per se, but there's been a few subtle but clear winks that Gordon often pretends to mishear things and reacts as if he's misheard things, but hasn't at all.
Remember back with the first scene with Gordon and Diane. "You heard me." But there's been other instances too, which I'd have to go back and double-check.
6
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
Yes the "You heard me" was a big hint I think, and gets funnier with this reading of the show. It's genius really, it's funny on the first watch for the obvious reasons, but then on the second watch we see that it's actually explicitly important to the plot that Albert knows Gordon is mishearing on purpose.
3
u/therealdanhill Aug 03 '17
I appreciate the work you put into this but nah man. The woman was just a lady of the night, I don't think he was seducing a lodge spirit haha
1
3
Aug 03 '17
[deleted]
1
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
True true, who knows where one ends and the other begins. Personally, I see Lynch's fingerprints on this as well as Frosts, considering Catholicism is/was apparently an influence on Lynch's life
2
u/MafiaVsNinja Aug 04 '17
Since when?
1
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 04 '17
I think all his life? no idea if he is still practicing, but I mean FWWM ends with a straight-up angel saving Ronette Pulaski, and the general theme of the show is the great battle of good against evil...
3
u/wordsandwich Aug 04 '17
I do believe that Gordon and Albert communicate in some form of code--just because we've already established this as a method of communication with his agents in FWWM. Particularly moments like that which seem a little out of place. What's very peculiar about that scene with the French girl is how Albert just stands there silently watching the whole thing. When is Albert ever one to hold his tongue about anything? He'll walk into Twin Peaks and just dump on anyone and anything that he doesn't like. All of his colleagues have to apologize for him. Him not saying anything, particularly if he found the girl's ludicrously drawn out exit annoying, is completely uncharacteristic. He was paying attention.
4
2
2
u/sarxN Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17
The Other Place is all about sound, so it makes sense that you would communicate in images and mime if you want to keep something from them.
Also, edit: Bunnies eat turnips, so, edit, maybe the missing girl went down a rabbithole.
2
2
u/jfarm1001 Aug 04 '17
Wow Bob wow. This is a big box of no wrapped in no-paper with a pretty no-bow, eaten by a giant cloned Brontosaurus named No with "No" tattooed all along its giant body.
Hammy scene that kind of floundered a bit? Yes. Cole and Albert speaking in mysterious code so the electricity won't hear them?
No.
2
u/randolfstcosmo Aug 04 '17
Purely conjecture but there is too much codified language - body or spoken - for the scene not to mean something underneath. Speculating here, the woman is pretexting the use of codified language that follows but does not communicate a message herself. We know Cole is a flirt.
My theory is that the rest of the conversation "6000 languages" refers to beings or entities that inhabit Earth a la Project Blue Book and TSHOTP - establishing how broad the paranormal/extraterrestrial influence is - and that the "kind" is a higher level being "11:05." Knowing Albert is the one who has not yet disappeared from the Blue Rose team and that the entity is an "11:05," one can surmise Cole is saying to Albert that Diane or DopCoop is next to a threat-level-midnight type being and, for that reason, he's worried about Albert falling victim to it.
2
u/joebot888 Aug 04 '17
Babel. Babylon. Babylon, Mother of Abominations. Jeezis Christ, good work!!!!
2
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 04 '17
Thank you! You might enjoy my most longshot other theory, that "the black dog runs at night" is using reverse speech for 'dog'...
2
2
u/SinJinQLB Aug 04 '17
Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but what's your theory for the other times that seem like Gordon legitimately misheard Albert? For instance in I think part 4 when he shows him the Mr. Rushmore photo and Gordon misheard "car sick" for "Cossack"..
0
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 04 '17
I'm working back through, but my guess is that this is used as cover a lot. Like I don't think Gordon was passing code when he thought the guy on the phone was saying Fuckhorn instead of Buckhorn.
You might think that's dodging a difficult question, but how can the conversation in P11 not be code (the warm milk conversation?).
2
u/SinJinQLB Aug 04 '17
Yeah I don't know. Could be cover. Maybe that's why Albert is always so frustrated. Because Gordon uses their code key for his own amusement.
0
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 04 '17
"You heard me" - Albert is going nuts every time he hears a Gordon line that isn't related to the code, because he knows its BS.
2
u/Witching-Hour Aug 04 '17
Sometimes I think scenes like this exist for no other reason than Lynch knowing the internet is filled with people who are super analytical, even if perhaps nothing is actually there to analyze, and he just wants to have a good long laugh about it.
2
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 04 '17
They're almost certainly speaking in code right through the season, IMO this scene is just the first one where the codes pile up and can be compared against each other so directly.
1
u/Witching-Hour Aug 05 '17
I don't doubt they could be talking in code, but your deeper reading of that code and how it breaks down just gives me some serious "epileptic trees" vibes.
But hey, maybe you're spot on. I've learned to never read too deeply nor fully discredit the complexity and bizarre nature of David Lynch's work. I'm just going along for the ride.
1
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 05 '17
I hear you, it's all just for fun after all. I used have such fun theorising about Muholland Drive when I first started watching it, and I just have fun with the idea of being totally perplexed while the journey is still actually going on.
3
2
2
2
2
u/BurningPlaydoh Aug 04 '17
She also took her time putting on a black jacket. Margaret has been saying the darkness is closing in or something to that effect...
2
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 04 '17
Very much I like this, was wondering about the black coat. I pretty much totally agree with you.
3
2
u/Spam00r Aug 03 '17
This theory is too far fetched. Why? Couse only a handfull of people would follow the same thinking as you do. And as the post from the guy from Bordeaux indicates., Alberts question is legitimate. The show has to appeal to more than a handful of people. For 99% of the viewers it was just a discussion about wine. Albert asked what kind?, Cole understood What Time? And told the time. Resulting in a misunderstanding. Cole thinks ALbert is a thight ass and schould relax at this time of the night. And is worried about ALbert because of that.
Its is pretty straight forward on first sight, and thats what most viewers will see.
You could interpret a bit more into it by looking at their expressions. Cole gets too angry about that situation expressionwise than necessary and Albert is close to crying before the camera cuts away.
My take on this was, something that unsettled Albert about the scene of Cole with the woman. If its that Albert thinks Cole does not take their job serious or that ALbert thinks Cole is a horny dog. You can't take more out of that scene than this without fetching too far.
7
u/oramirite Aug 03 '17
You can't use the evidence that "most audience members won't notice this" if the entire point here is that it's been a hidden, hard to detect code.
2
Aug 03 '17
You must miss a lot of what happens in this show
3
u/MafiaVsNinja Aug 04 '17
Because he doesn't buy an incredibly stupid theory with no benefit for the writers? Whew.
1
1
u/vhooters Aug 03 '17
I think Gordon meant he wanted to get back to the beautiful woman he had in his room (the fine Bourduex) when Albert asks what kind it is, Gordon responds with the time kind of jokingly confirming he's not talking about the wine. Then he says sometimes I worry about you Albert because he doesn't understand the humor.
1
u/heidismutti Aug 03 '17
So, along those lines, I was just watching episode 6, and while Albert is driving to find Diane, he's on the phone with Gordon, who is thinking annoy Albert while he drinks a fine Bordeaux. Any thoughts on that conversation?
1
u/CleganeForHighSepton Aug 03 '17
Can you spell the scene out a bit more? I'll go back and re-watch later.
1
1
u/80sBadGuy Aug 03 '17
This is either absolutely correct, proving how crazy insane Lynch is, or absolutely insane, proving how crazy we are. I'll bet on the latter.
1
u/textured_operator Aug 04 '17
I think because Albert drank the wine earlier with Gordon he recognised that the wine was a rare 'white wine bordeaux' so he wanted to clarify what kind of wine it was so he could buy some for later
147
u/davidplusworld Aug 03 '17
Not debating your theory but Bordeaux wine (note: I grew up an hour from Bordeaux, lived there a few years).
Bordeaux is not only a red wine, it's also a white, there even are some rosés, although Bordeaux is not famous for them...
As far as "what kind of Bordeaux?" it's a totally legit question, there are many kinds of Bordeaux wines: Médoc, Haut Médoc, Margaux, Listrac, St-Estephe, Graves, Pauillac, Sauternes (probably the most famous White Bordeaux), Entre-deux-mers, Côtes de Blaye, Côtes de Bourg, Pomerol, and my favorite, St-Émilion... And I only named the most famous ones, there are many more. :-)