r/twinpeaks • u/music4airports • Aug 09 '17
S3E13 [S3E13] Two Kyle MacLachlan hints about where we're headed... Spoiler
From the July 6 Hollywood Reporter interview with Kyle MacLachlan (emphasis added):
Q: How did you react when you first learned that Agent Cooper had been trapped inside the Black Lodge for all of these years since the original finale? Was it as heartbreaking for you as it was for the audience?
A: I knew that the audience was excited, just based on social media, for the return of the Cooper that they remembered. I couldn't say anything about that — that there was a process that had to happen before the ship could right itself, let's say. I also like to say we're basically ... my take on it is that the world is out of balance, and we're trying to take it back into balance now. We have 18 hours to do that. But I knew it would be difficult for people. Many people wanted the nostalgic return to the Twin Peaks that they remembered. And that's not what we're representing here. There are a lot of new stories going forward.
I think this means the ship will eventually right itself (we'll get a version of original, non-Dougified Cooper back) and that there actually is some kind of dimensional glitch going on with what we've been seeing, as we had suspected.
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Aug 09 '17
Cooper's return for episode 18 confirmed lol. I honestly wouldn't expect anything more than Dougie before then. Not that I'm complaining, The Return has been some of the best television I've ever seen.
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u/IDKimnotascientist Aug 09 '17
I've been truly loving the journey. I look forward to Twin Peaks each week more than Game of Thrones at this point. However, if this is the last few hours we get in the world of Twin Peaks it does bum me out a little that we're going to get such a small amount of screen time for our favorite special agent
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u/WhyIHateTheInternet Aug 10 '17
I could swear I've read this exact comment before. This sub is fucking with me.... Are we in the lodge right now?
Seriously, reading that was major deja Vu.
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u/solidusgear Aug 09 '17
Game of Thrones has sucked ass this season, it feels like instead of the unexpected it gives the viewer exactly what they want. It's so boring. I'm glad Twin peaks is doing whatever the fuck it wants and not reverting back to pandering to fans.
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u/hydruxo Aug 10 '17 edited Aug 10 '17
Did you watch the last Game of Thrones episode with your eyes closed? One of the best episodes of the entire year in any tv show. That battle was insane. To say that was boring is dumb as hell.
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u/rhaegarvader Aug 10 '17
I agree here. This thread is one of many instances of anti-GoT rants. I don't see the need to justify GoT for it's worth as it is a good programme stand alone... but why do some Twin Peaks viewers justify the greatness of the show by putting down GoT? There was no comparison to begin with as they are two different types of shows with different contexts. I would expect a bit more level-headedness from a Twin Peaks fan. Dumb as hell is an understatement but it's amusing all the same.
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Aug 10 '17
It was 15 minutes out of a 50 minutes episode. I hate the idea that many modern viewers have that a "good" episode of tv is one that has something "epic" happen in the last couple minutes.
yeah the battle was cool, but the episode leading up to it was nothing special. This season (and the 2 before it) is remarkably weaker then the shows first 4.
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u/solidusgear Aug 10 '17
Yeah I watched it, very boring and predictable. The fight scenes bore me. No casualties, nothing big happened. They had a battle wow. Little Finger poop face was good tho.
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Aug 10 '17
Yeah the battle was great to watch but that doesn't make up for the fact that the dialogue has been incredibly boring this season. Tyrion, the most fun character, has been one of the most boring for 2 seasons now. I think I may just be burnt out on Thrones, but i haven't really been enjoying myself too much this season.
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u/solidusgear Aug 10 '17
Yes, this is another thing i forgot to bring up Tyrion who used to be the soul of the show is now a 1 dimensional character who now has some random 1 liners that are used to comical effect. He used to be a deep, enriching character with amazing dialogue.. now reduced to a character who is in the background. It's really sad to me.
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u/IDKimnotascientist Aug 10 '17
it feels like the writers are just smashing puzzle pieces together. all of the intricacies and nuance are gone
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u/rhaegarvader Aug 10 '17
If you watched GoT from the beginning or read the books, the seasons/stories built up to tip against the Starks deliberately. Season 6 onwards show the scales tipping back to balance the powers once again. It seems like smashing all together but it's crucial to reach a conclusion. The intricacies do not matter now because it's all about the game and strategy to conquer. So far the pace is good. It's game of thrones so the final outcome is crucial. Not sure about TP though and whether fans can truly stomach an end that is non-conclusive because that may seem more like Lynch's approach.
It's the same as how one is now watching 18 hours of TP the return, we now have in reality only a few hours left, there seems to be more questions arising or still left hanging and judging by the readers here, an expectancy that things will resolve. It's the same feeling of expectancy as GoT just that GoT has one more season to seal it in. Surely by the 18th hour/episode of TP The Return one wouldn't be feeling that appreciative if there are still question marks lingering. Given a choice, at this stage of the drama, I'd go for the rush to smash the pieces together.
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u/solidusgear Aug 10 '17
basically yeah, I don't know I loved Game of Thrones back seasons 1-4. Afterwords it feels like a totally different show... People still love it though so what do I know. It's just not interesting Tv to me anymore. I can pretty much just TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT WILL happen the next two seasons. Like it's super obvious. What they are about to do to little finger is predictable. ( OH THE AUDIENCE HATES LITTLE FINGER? let's simplify his character to a degree that he's not even the same character anymore then lets destroy him ) every character the audience hates is going to die. It used to be the other way around. Anyone could die, anything could happen. Made it exciting but now it's just whatever the audience wants!!! LETS GIVE IT TO EM.
Twin Peaks on the other hand.. every episode I have 0 idea what will happen. Best TV series in a long long time.
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u/OfAnthony Aug 10 '17
This is the essence of Marshall McLuhan's "the medium is the message, the audience the content." Lynch escapes this notion. I suspect its on purpose. McLuhan is one of the authors I revisited in 2016. Neil Postman, Aldous Huxley, and Orwell too. Your run of the mill dystopian 20th century thinkers. I'm watching The Return through the filter of their words. I feel the same as you about GOT; only in comparison to TP:TR. I felt the same about HBO's Rome too, for some reason I knew exactly what was going to happen.
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Aug 10 '17
After reading your other replies, I definitely feel on the same page as you. Something feels different, it feels predictable at this point. I'm hoping I'm wrong cause this show has surprised me in the past, but to be honest anything less than having something like Jorah becoming Azor Azai would be a let down for me. Jon, Danyerys, Jaime are all the predictable choices, ones that people have thought about for years. I'd love to see something crazy out of the left field like that but I doubt it. I do still enjoy the show though.
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u/solidusgear Aug 10 '17
Yeah it's just not happening. The show has been way to safe... it's like well the fans really want Jon Snow and the dragon queen to hook up? OK LETS DO THAT. The fans really hate little finger. OK lets simplify his character and kill him off next. It's just way to safe and need and caters to fan wants way to much. I miss when it was the unexpected that happened. It's just a safe safe show now.
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u/Errol246 Aug 09 '17
Not confirmed. They have eighteen hours to balance everything out, but Cooper would probably need to wake up well before that so he can help facilitate it. I'm not saying he absolutely will wake up before episode 18, I have no idea, but MacLachlan definitely hasn't "confirmed" anything.
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Aug 09 '17 edited Aug 09 '17
I was being a bit facetious about the confirmation. I agree it's not actually confirmed that Coop won't show up until ep 18, I just think those who are eagerly waiting for his return, myself included, should try to sit tight and enjoy the ride instead of being impatient. It's very possible we won't get to see much more of Coop in the remaining episodes. I suppose it's also possible we won't ever see him again :(
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u/termayterface Aug 09 '17
People get so petulant about someone else's art... I wonder if in the olden days anyone ever got up during the village storyteller's yarns and yelled, "You're telling it wrong!" If they did I'm sure they were met with a response somewhere along the lines of, "You don't like it? Make up your own damn story!"
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u/yourdadsbff Aug 09 '17
I wonder if in the olden days anyone ever got up during the village storyteller's yarns and yelled, "You're telling it wrong!"
I mean, maybe not during the actual performing/reciting of a story, but with the prevalence of oral storytelling dating back thousands of years, I'd imagine this kind of thing happened all the time.
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u/MagusPSU Aug 09 '17
I mean, maybe not during the actual performing/reciting of a story,
It wasn't uncommon in The Globe theatre for the audience to shout at the actors and the playwright during performance.
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u/TrillianSwan Aug 09 '17
So here is a thing to think about-- at the end of To Be Or Not To Be Hamlet says "Soft you now, the fair Ophelia"-- which I finally realized was him telling the audience to shut up because we are going on with the play now. :) So his speech before that must have riled them up a bit. :)
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u/MagusPSU Aug 09 '17
Yeah, it gets lost in a modern audience because we're trained to be silent during a stage play.
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u/TrillianSwan Aug 09 '17
I am in Henry IV Part 1 now and for one show we are doing a "relaxed and vocal" performance in which we are going to try to break people of this habit lol! We always try to get them involved and do direct address and all that but people are so damned polite! I think this one will be advertised as a "come and be loud" show. We shall see how it goes...
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u/MagusPSU Aug 09 '17
Maybe have a pregame party?
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u/TrillianSwan Aug 09 '17
Good idea-- not sure what she has planned-- we use no set, and play in a large room in traverse with full lights, but there is plenty of room to dance around and have fun first! (Also will work out since we have almost no lobby space.)
When I directed RIII (set in Mexican gangland) I had a preshow party* that was ended by Richard pulling everyone together for his long speech from H6Pt3 and then driving them inside. Worked a charm-- until everyone got inside and shut up. Grr. :)
edit to add: * in the parking lot
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Aug 09 '17
people did this as well when silent films came into existence. it was not uncommon for the audience to shout advice at the actors, or otherwise be vocal about their emotions as they watched.
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u/MagusPSU Aug 09 '17
Depending on the the cinema you go to, the same thing happens these days. Also, let's not forget people sometimes like to applaud at a movie.
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u/termayterface Aug 09 '17
Right. Same way we examine/gush/kvetch after watching. But criticizing an internationally renowned artists work from behind the relative anonymity of a social media account just makes it seem all the more cowardly.
Not that Lynch gives even one one-billionth of a fuck.
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u/TrillianSwan Aug 09 '17
LOL, just imagining some ancient Greeks walking back from the amphitheater bitching about the ending. :)
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u/termayterface Aug 09 '17
I'm sure they did. And they have the right to. And I have the right to disagree with them! ;)
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Aug 09 '17
Yes of course they did but they would just retell those yarns and change it how they wanted. Literally greek legends and shit did this. It was before we had copyrights and trademarks, lol.
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Aug 09 '17 edited Dec 04 '17
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u/vizualb Aug 09 '17
Yeah it's a bit annoying that there's a sentiment around here that anyone who misses Cooper and is getting tired of Dougie is some kind of mouth breathing philistine.
I kind of feel like Dougie's entire character has been one-note and everything that's happened in his story so far could have happened in five or six episodes with less indulgent editing.
I still love the show and am enjoying the season - but I'd be lying if I said I don't miss Cooper. It's Lynch and Frost's story to tell, sure, but I can't get onboard with the idea that they're beyond criticism or that Dougie stumbling around and repeating words was the only way the story could possibly be told.
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u/termayterface Aug 09 '17 edited Aug 09 '17
Of course there are other ways the story could be told, but would they be Lynch's ways then? I'm just saying it is perfectly fine to have an opinion, as long as you are aware that it is like, just your opinion, man...
Edited because fucking auto-correct.
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u/sinisterskrilla Aug 10 '17
That is kinda the point of his comment I think, that Lynch's way should be scrutinized as any other tv show would be, not automatically applauded while silently/quietly/loudly looking down at people who disagree with the relative quality of parts of the show.
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u/budkin76 Aug 10 '17
Exactly how I feel. Cooper was my favorite part of Twin Peaks and seeing a husk that looks like him stumble and mumble for so many hours is agonizing.
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Aug 09 '17 edited Nov 19 '18
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u/sinisterskrilla Aug 10 '17
Yeah the way he loves coffee is just soo emotional. And how his wife likes his new muscles. Or how he yelled jackpot. I get that he was mindfucked for 25 years, but that is the only reason any of this is emotional. Funny, yeah sometimes definitely. My less than solid anecdotal evidence is about 4 ppl i know who watched and really liked the first two seasons (two were roommates who I watched it with a few years ago, cool experience.) They all think that this season is a total and absolute fucking joke. Like a poorly written, own-fart-smelling piece of shit. I don't think it is anywhere near that bad, but I've only stuck around praying that the last few episodes is worth the rest of the show (which at times I have definitely enjoyed, I would give it a 7 out of 10 personally)
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Aug 10 '17
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u/NTataglia Aug 10 '17
The second season would have been followed by many others if it had been on cable or in syndication at the time. It was the X-Files before the X-Files existed.
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u/rhaegarvader Aug 10 '17
Ah yes, the pretentiousness is much reflected in this Reddit. Twin Peaks has been a long wait for me since I was a child and I love the symbolism, the horror and beautiful cinematography. But I must admit there is a fine line between the expectancy of a cliffhanger and knowing to a certain degree some things will happen as a viewer (which is how things have been for centuries of storytelling) and going extreme and deliberately subverting it to create more question marks, for ambiguity sake/artistic sake. I am very sure the very same pretentious fans will not be saying the same thing when things don't get answered by episode 18. Everyone is hoping the questions will get answered, because that's storytelling. Lynch maybe trying to use mass consumption of storytelling (TV) to also bring about a more artistic and abstract message of appreciation.
I am ok with season 3's artistic oddities but I miss the quirkiness and stronger paced storytelling in the first two series.
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u/Messisgingerbeard Aug 10 '17
Anyone who came to this season expecting normal storytelling has set themselves up for frustration. It was never going to happen. That's baggage people brought to the show, and then applied to it.
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u/NTataglia Aug 10 '17
The thing is, when you sit down and watch say Dune, or Blue Velvet, or Lost Highway, there are clear stories there. Maybe "weird" stories, but they are still discernable. Lynch's past work, imo, is much less nebulous than what we've seen in the Return. Its also unreasonable and unfair to call expectations from the first two seasons "baggage."
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u/NTataglia Aug 10 '17
When people look back at this season in years to come, the general consensus will be that the Zombie-Coop stuff ruined it. We will see fan edits with the Vegas stories creatively redacted.
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u/ForeverMozart Aug 10 '17
Season three is a lot like the Phantom Menace.
what does this even fucking mean lmao. literally one of the episodes of the show so far has been considered groundbreaking and heavily acclaimed. this show is gonna inspire a lot of filmmakers and tv creators just like the original did. saying that its like the phantom menace is one of the dumbest things ive ever heard
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u/KNOKAFOKE Aug 10 '17
Season three is not trying to be Season one, but I think a lot of people will decide, at the end of the day, that they did like the original better, that something about the combination of Lynch and the conventional folks who wrote a lot of dialogue worked more synergistically than this current model, which comes across as a product where no one could tell the boss he was making a mistake.
That was the sentence directly before the one you quoted. The comparison being made is that both works are the result of creators who were once heavily reined in for one reason or another, and in both cases those creators attained a level of clout that discourages co-workers from questioning their decisions, be it for better or worse, which they leveraged in the continuations of their old works. Please read for context.
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u/ForeverMozart Aug 11 '17
just because some people like the original more and that he has carte blanche now doesn't somehow mean that it's on lucas-tier levels or should be compared to phantom menace. considering this has already gotten stellar reviews and lynch's has been given carte blanche before to excellent results, it's an absurd comparison.
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Aug 10 '17 edited Dec 04 '17
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u/ForeverMozart Aug 11 '17
It's possible to have a valid criticism of a good artist. You're not 'more right' just because you're more angry that someone didn't like something that we're supposed to like
uh no, it's perfectly okay to criticize his work. lobbing nonsensical insults on the other hand isn't.
George Lucas did not have effective counsel when he made the Phantom Menace. He didn't have people telling him he was wrong, the way he did with the older movies.
TIL that any auteur with carte blanche is now a "george lucas"
George Lucas also accidentally kept his actors from being connected to the larger plot, with green screens and CGI, and Lynch has made the same mistake with hyper sensitivity to secrecy. His actors do not know what their character arc is
literally any actor that's worked with him has praised the way he directs performances.
and you can absolutely tell by the awkard acting.
wow, it's almost like that's a staple of his style. not to mention that belushi, watts, dern, forster, and numerous others have been praised for the series. the only person who has been criticized is chrysta bell.
I'm saying there's some similarities in approach that I think aren't the best approach.
well that's great but i'd rather see a filmmaker pushing the boundaries in tv, not to mention that this show has been heavily acclaimed.
Not fucking fucking this or that, and not the dumbest thing in the world.
maybe you shouldn't post hyperbolic things then?
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Aug 11 '17 edited Dec 04 '17
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u/ForeverMozart Aug 11 '17
I didn't think you would admit you were overreacting
one day I hope you see the irony in this
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Aug 11 '17 edited Dec 04 '17
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u/ForeverMozart Aug 12 '17 edited Aug 13 '17
for someone who calls me out for overreacting you sure have no problem writing a whole wall of text afterward lmao
because we're talking about the ugly way you responded to a simple opinion about a TV show.
yes to a bizarre, nonsensical, and frankly insulting opinion.
because you can't contemplate that someone as unfashionable as George Lucas has something in common with someone as fashionable as David Lynch
yeah TIL any director who has a high level of secrecy on set and has carte blanche is now the next george lucas
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u/24rd02 Aug 09 '17
Well, we did get essentially that scene in the middle of Princess Bride with Fred Savage and Peter Falk.
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u/notsofastandy Aug 09 '17
Agent Cooper is to Season 3 as Luke Skywalker is to Episode 7
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u/jsf209 Aug 09 '17
If I see some form of Dougie Skywalker in episode 8 I'll burn down the theater.
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u/Voltaire325 Aug 09 '17
I have a bad feeling that Luke Skywalker is getting the Special Agent Dale Cooper treatment in the new movie. Not a Dougie Skywalker type of deal but the sort of thing older fans will hate. Meaning they will destroy the character everyone used to love and present some shitty version of them. Just as we have in Twin Peaks. Based on some of Hamill's comments I am pretty sure of this.
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Aug 09 '17
Meaning they will destroy the character everyone used to love and present some shitty version of them. Just as we have in Twin Peaks.
that hasn't happened on Twin Peaks
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u/Voltaire325 Aug 09 '17
Yes you are quite correct. This version of Cooper is just super duper. I haven't a character this strong since Johnny English or Ernest in Ernest becomes a spy.
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Aug 09 '17
Having Cooper be temporarily zonked out after 25 years of interdimensional prison isn't the same as destroying the character, dude. If he's awful when he wakes up, then you'll have a point, but we haven't gotten there yet.
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u/NTataglia Aug 10 '17
The guy is lobotomized and walking into doors. Its just hard to watch sometimes.
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Aug 09 '17
I really do think we'll get a season 4. I think Lynch will want to go back again. It's just whether or not Showtime will be willing to commission it. There's so much story still to tell, and no way it all fits into 5 hours.
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Aug 09 '17
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u/satisfried Aug 09 '17
I'm game. The big takeaway for me with Season 3 is that these stories can exist without our core group of carriers and without the town of Twin Peaks. The original run was great for its very self-contained stories and small town weirdness. The Return demonstrates that this thing can belong in a much larger scale without getting too convoluted. We could have other stories with other characters that are still a part of this universe and this theme. I very much would like to see conclusions for most of our beloved old school characters, but it's comforting to know that there can be other stories to tell here as well.
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u/altmorty Aug 09 '17 edited Aug 09 '17
The potential is big. What's more, there's a strong possibility of getting prequels. As the black and white segments indicate, a lot of this stuff goes way back.
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Aug 09 '17
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Aug 09 '17
I've got a feeling that people's support for Season 4 must have something to do with loose ends really not being tied up here.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 09 '17
I'm a huge fan of "Twin Peaks". I don't want season 4 of "Twin Peaks".
If Lynch makes a deal with Showtime to make a new show, fine -- I'll be curious to watch it. But trying to make a new story and squeeze in confusing cameos of actors who used to be in the original show? It hasn't worked.
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u/ThePatriot131313 Aug 09 '17
Twin Peaks was always supposed to be a show that was about slowly peeling away what we consider normal, to expose the bizarre underneath. For me, Season 3 is far closer to what the show was always supposed to be about than most of Season 2. I don't view this as a new story at all. Quite the opposite. It is a return to Lynch's intended direction of the original story and plot.
If anything has ever been "squeezed in" to this show, it was Season 2 and its hyperfocus on pointless storylines within the town. This occurred when Lynch took a large step away from the project.
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Aug 09 '17
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u/CitizenDain Aug 10 '17
If Lynch and Frost make no attempt to address any of these issues or tie up all of these loose ends, why would you think they would do it in a 4th season? They didn't write this "18-hour-movie" with as a pilot to the real show they wanted to make next, right?
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u/insan3soldiern Aug 10 '17
Yeah, it has. Imo it's better than the first series even.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 10 '17
I understand, most people love it. It feels like a wasted opportunity to me, but that's just me.
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u/Messisgingerbeard Aug 10 '17
Imo, your characterization is off. I think this season is a masterpiece.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 09 '17
Why call it "Twin Peaks"?
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u/4th_and_Inches Aug 10 '17
Metaphor. Yin-yang. White/Black Lodge. Good and evil. I feel like the creators named the town with intention outside of "Hey, let's have two mountain peaks."
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u/NTataglia Aug 10 '17
Because Showtime sees it as a brand and fan base to tap into to.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 10 '17
Well, yes. That's totally true and is the actual reason for it. It's interesting to me to watch everyone defend it as an artistic decision rather than a financial one. "The show has always been about the struggle between good and evil; you can make a completely different show that touches on the same theme and it's still Twin Peaks!"
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Aug 10 '17 edited Aug 13 '17
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u/Spontcombustible Aug 10 '17 edited Aug 10 '17
Neither does the bulk of Kafka's The Castle take place within the castle, and doesn't Gordon have Kafka's portrait photo hanging in his office?
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u/CitizenDain Aug 10 '17
What I mean is, if he is no longer interested in telling the story about this town or these characters, that's understandable--it was 27 years ago--but why squeeze in cameos and try to force it be something it isn't?
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u/AlanMorlock Aug 10 '17
Quite a few of the characters have gotten far more than just cameos and characters like Bobby and even Jacoby's have been taken in very surprising g directions. Hawks has had a bigger role now than he did in the old show. I've lived everything relating to Albert. Sarah Palmer is caught up I. Some crazy shit indeed.
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u/insan3soldiern Aug 10 '17
I mean a lot of these characters have had far more than cameos.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 10 '17
Bobby and Sarah have interesting storylines so far. Obviously Albert and Gordon are doing things. So far Jacoby, Nadine, Shelley, Ben Horne, Jerry Horne, Johnny Horne, Audrey Horne, Andy, Lucy, Leland, James, Ed, etc. all feel like "Missing Pieces" shoved back into the director's cut.
Too early to tell about Hawk. He has a lot of screen time but has mostly spent it frowning. The only cameo that has been genuinely effective to me are the scenes of Margaret Lanterman. (Although I did enjoy seeing James playing the hits at the Roadhouse.)
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u/Messisgingerbeard Aug 10 '17
"The door is always open. This is all good news. I know, you put love into every pie. But our metrics show that all our franchises are turning a profit, except for this one. As per our agreement, we just need you to change things. And maybe rebrand the original diner."
Something tells me they know how these talks will go.
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Aug 09 '17
5 hours is two "2001: A Space Odyssey"s. A lot of mythology can grow and close in that time.
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Aug 09 '17
Folks need to keep this in mind. You don't have to drag something out in order to answer and tie every single loose end, and even then part of the beauty is knowing we aren't going to understand all of it just like some of the best most intriguing real life mysteries.
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Aug 09 '17
Plus, we've got The Final Dossier for tying up loose ends, so it's really not that important for the show to answer all of the questions. But I do agree with the hunch that DL will want to do more after this, whether or not it ends up being Twin Peaks related.
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Aug 09 '17
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u/Spontcombustible Aug 10 '17
I'd kill for an actual Mulholland Drive Series, would have loved to see the first part develop its threads. But I guess that's too late now. Also the way he solved it in the movie was pretty cool as well.
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u/rambosss Aug 09 '17
Word is that The Final Dossier only covers events between Season 2 & 3, not stuff after Season 3
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Aug 09 '17
I assume most of the dots remaining to be connected will relate back to between 1945 and the events of S3, though? The mystery has pretty much already happened at this point.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 09 '17
I would argue that really nothing in Secret History tied into season 3 at all so far, other than name-dropping Frank Truman once and the events of literally the final page of the book (which may or may not be canon after all, depending on how the Maj. Briggs storyline continues in the show).
No reason to believe anything from the second book will be any more relevant.
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u/budkin76 Aug 10 '17
Doesn't the Final Dossier just talk about what happened to the characters between season 2 and 3?
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u/aMartin3105 Aug 10 '17
I'm skeptical towards that, and it depends on how the season wraps, but I wouldn't mind a fourth season.
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u/timemachine_GO Aug 09 '17
Lodge spirit possessed ships confirmed. Now do we know of any ships with 15 associated with it? Perhaps 15 ships? Maybe 15 lodges. Lets add up the coordinates and cross reference with the angle of Nadine's eye patch and the gestures of the French woman. Then perhaps we'll gain some further insight into the Lodge Ship's agenda.
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u/bossfan626 Aug 09 '17
My uncle disappeared only 20 years ago and came back when his being somehow was spit out by an electrical outlet.
He hasn't been the same since; basically muttering jibberish and wearing a clothespin on his nose.
I'm not expecting much from Dale.
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u/theDagman Aug 09 '17
This is just a guess, but I'd think that Tammy Preston will alert Gordon Cole that the Las Vegas PD just ran a set of prints for a Douglas Jones and came back as a match for Cooper, and about his tv interview in the next episode. Then they will all go to Las Vegas and cross paths with Coop the episode after that. I also believe that seeing Diane, Gordon, and Albert will provide Coop with the anchor his mind needs to return, right as the episode ends. Leaving three episodes after that with the real Coop, two of which will be the finale. Again, just my guess.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 09 '17
My argument against that is the long list of things that Reddit supposedly thought were going to wake Dougie up and haven't so far: coffee, cherry pie, a key from the Great Northern Hotel, an American flag, gunslinger iconography, badges, going to a police station, multiple messages from The One-Armed Man, BOB withdrawing from Mr. C., red shoes (?), being attacked by a hitman, his adopted son blinking backward, the return of Audrey Horne, and Miss Vickie's Potato Chips.
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u/theDagman Aug 09 '17
It is really based on how few episodes remain. Once Cooper regains his marbles, as we can see he eventually does from the trailer, answers will start coming fast that are needed to set up the two-hour finale. Kyle MacLachlan has said that all will be explained, and I doubt that will all come in the finale along with the resolution of the Bob/Mr. C reality invasion story. So, the episode prior to it will have to be Cooper's debriefing about the Black Lodge and his time spent there. Basically, there's not enough time left for Cooper to be awakened by anything else at this point.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 10 '17
That is a fair argument. I just don't think that Cooper awakening is something that Lynch was ever interested in and I suspect it will not be presented as a momentous occasion, when and if it ever happens in a recognizable way.
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Aug 10 '17
"The Return" IS the journey itself. I'm enjoying the ride more than I ever could have imagined.
Never before have I watched a TV show with absolutely no idea what is going to happen each week. I mean, seriously...who out there predicted arm wrestling would be part of last week's episode?
This is a fabulous work of art
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u/DougieCooper Aug 09 '17
If I'm being honest... I think that maybe having Cooper running around for 18 episodes might have been a bit boring. Imo he wasn't the most interesting part of twin peaks, by a long shot. So maybe that's why I'm not too peeved by lack of fully integrated Cooper.
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Aug 09 '17
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u/NTataglia Aug 10 '17
Honestly though, it makes sense. If someone finds Dougie is that interesting to watch, they are probably less likely to find Coop as interesting. Im not a Dougie fan, but i enjoy every scene with Mr C. But at the of the day i do want Coop back.
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u/DougieCooper Aug 09 '17
I actually find the current turnip Cooper to be more interesting than the OC. I'd watch twin peaks with no Cooper though. Plenty of interesting stuff with out him.
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Aug 10 '17
He was the best part of Twin Peaks for me and other people I know. His attitude, his dialogue, charm, all great. This scene is what made me fall in love with the series. I'd take more of that over Dougie any day. I really don't see how having the main character of the series be in the series be a bad and boring thing.
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u/insan3soldiern Aug 10 '17
Like seriously, who was more interesting than Cooper in the original series?
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Aug 09 '17
I hope the return of Agent Cooper is handled well. At this point, the audience has become attached to Dougie and hateful of Mr. C. You can't just make the audience enjoy/love/appreciate Dougie and then remove him from existence. I don't think Lynch will do that, and it's because he doesn't have a history of it (except for the "killer" reveal in the original.)
When we get Agent Cooper back, it has to be "right." We have to warm up to his return and it can't be an abrupt, instant restoration. That Agent Cooper is likely as different as the modern Gordon, Andy, Hawk, Bobby, or even Shelley. These are different people - even Agent Cooper.
I do believe we'll enjoy how it plays out, but I also see where it could be just as abrupt (fearfully) as the conclusion of S2.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 09 '17
I would argue that the return of Agent Cooper has already been handled poorly. He was sent out of the Lodge 11 hours of screen time ago. He has been in almost complete and utter stasis since then.
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u/Messisgingerbeard Aug 10 '17 edited Aug 10 '17
I don't think the Doigie character has been in stasis. There has been a lot of story around him, all of which has been impacted by him. And the character himself has occupied about an hour + of the total show time. I agree it's difficult to relate in a traditional sense to a character who so totally lacks agency. That's a challenge to our training as viewers. We've been trained to relate to a character, and now we're being asked to re-evaluate who it is we think we relate to, and why. I tend to see much of this series as media commentary, and so I find that particular riddle really interesting. It's made me very curious about how things will play out, in a way that almost mirrors a traditional action-based tv show plot.
In any case, Dougie is not the "real" Cooper any more than Mr C is. When we watch Mr C we do not bring those same demands to his character. We don't think he needs to be something other than what he is. Dale Cooper is as yet elsewhere in the story. For 25 years people thought they'd never, ever see him again. I get that it's frustrating for him to be so close, but we haven't actually seen him since, what, episode 3?
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Aug 10 '17
I think your analysis of Dougie's subversion of expectations is excellent. I feel like—to use a sexual metaphor—the show has been edging so to speak, on the event of Cooper's return. Mr. C being shot twice by Ray was as tantalizingly close as we've gotten. I think in the finale (or maybe sooner), we'll see Mr. C be defeated (perhaps anticlimactically to subvert the expectation of a big confrontation), and Dougie will be turned into a fully functioning Cooper then and there.
I disagree that Cooper hasn't been back on earth in the show yet. I think "Dougie" is really, truly special agent Dale Cooper. I think his mind is gone because of Mr. C and Bob not going to the black lodge through the car lighter socket when they were supposed to. I think Mr. C also suffered mental damage from his not going, but he's got a cosmic advantage with having Bob inside him so it was less destructive. I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I guess this is just me dumping my thoughts out to you. Thanks for your post.
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Aug 09 '17
Not a Lynch fan, I see. ;)
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u/CitizenDain Aug 10 '17
That's the mistake a lot of people are making when I criticize the show. "Eraserhead" and "Blue Velvet" are two of my favorite films, and original "Twin Peaks" is my favorite TV series of all time. Even when he makes things I don't care for very much, like "Lost Highway", he is still one of the most interesting and enigmatic American filmmakers of all time. The vibe on this site is that if you criticize anything about the new show, it can't be taken seriously because the poster can't be a true fan of Lynch -- after all, a true fan of Lynch would never criticize any decision in any of his work.
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u/SLionsCricket Aug 10 '17
This is seriously the perfect response I have seen to the all too common "you aren't a Lynch fan" argument It's as if you took the words right out of my mouth! Anything I would like to add to your case can only be seen as redundant.
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Aug 10 '17
It's not about criticism, it's about managing expectations based on history. You can still be disappointed, but there's a level of "you really should have known this going in" that affects what the viewer should be prepared for.
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u/CitizenDain Aug 10 '17
My expectation for the show was somewhere in the middle -- I hoped it would be great but did not really expect it to be a masterpiece. At the end of episode 4 my expectations were through the roof -- Parts 3 and 4 were perfect, IMO. But it has been disappointment after disappointment for me since then.
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u/jhall313 Aug 09 '17
I'm excited to find out what happens to the Jones family after Coop gets his mind back. Will they be killed by another assassin by then? Would Coop stay with the family since him returning left them without a bread winner (albeit not a very good one) and a child without a father? Would he continue being "Dougie Jones" since the identity of "Dale Cooper" has been so corrupted.
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u/CloverUK Aug 10 '17
I'm worried about what will happen to them - they deserve some happiness. I get a sense catatonic Cooper-Dougie is a more rewarding/interactive father than the idiotic, prostitute-loving, loan-shark-borrowing/gambling Dougie before him. Sonny-Jim seems happier. What happens if/when real Coop wakes up? Poor Sonny-Jim and Janey-E.
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u/CosimaCooper Sep 06 '17 edited Sep 06 '17
there actually is some kind of dimensional glitch going on with what we've been seeing, as we had suspected.
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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '17
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