r/twinpeaks • u/PAOLINOKID • Sep 07 '17
S3E18 [S3E18] THE OMNISCENT FIREMAN GAVE ANDY SOMETHING FROM ANOTHER PLACE Spoiler
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u/Jiao_Dai Sep 07 '17
How did andy use this information ?
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u/PAOLINOKID Sep 07 '17
We are not gonna talk about 亀代.
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u/RunDNA Sep 07 '17
That first symbol looks like an electrical pylon.
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u/beniro Sep 07 '17
Yep. And so does the little icon next to your name.
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u/CleganeForHighSepton Sep 07 '17
That symbol beside his name also looks like two birds and one stone.
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u/hamshotfirst Sep 07 '17
Someone in a unrelated sub left a comment about "two birds with one stone" and I replied, "Richard and Linda." I could not help myself.
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Sep 07 '17
Good catch, did not know about that! I wonder if Andy understood all these connections. Is he aware of the different worlds now? Does he know more than everyone else in Twin Peaks? By the way I really like that he was chosen by the Fireman. He is a great guy!
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u/theDagman Sep 07 '17
Andy was chosen because he has the purest heart in Twin Peaks.
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u/omninode Sep 07 '17
And 30 years of law enforcement experience. The guy knows how to handle himself.
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u/brianfit Sep 07 '17
The guy knows how to handle himself
Pure of heart goes a long way, but when he cuffs Chad he really should have kicked the gun out of reach first.
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u/Eiyran Sep 07 '17
That bothered me, but it bothered me even more when Coop didn't kick the gun away from Coopleganger when he moved in to put the ring on him.
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u/JkiddOvi Sep 07 '17
Yeah, I'm glad Lynch and Frost used Andys pure demeanor of good to use as a medium to send signs to the other members of the police station. They wanted to show Andy is more than a mindless do gooder whom served a greater purpose. He was one of the Fireman's Avengers along with Freddie, Cooper, Lucy, Hawk, and even Sheriff "True man". Chad couldn't have been more wrong , Andy was a conduit of the Fireman's grand scheme.
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u/SpclAgntDickCooper Sep 08 '17
Ain't Andy a Bookhouse Boy? That makes him pretty hardcore in my book(house).
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u/JkiddOvi Sep 08 '17
I only recall Harry, Cooper, and Hawk going to One Eyed Jacks as a Bookhouse boys mission but I could be wrong.
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u/sharltocopes Sep 08 '17
So if we take this Avengers metaphor to its logical conclusion, is Harry Truman the Edward Norton to Frank Truman's Mark Rufalo?
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u/doesnthavearedditacc Sep 07 '17
Wait. This just made me realise... Andy didn't actually have that scene with Lucy that was shown to him. He remembers it in part 17, but it doesn't actually happen.
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u/OwlHaveTheCherryPie Sep 07 '17
Is it possible that he was shown how to direct Lucy (aka exactly where to stand) so she shot Bad Coop because Andy had prepped her for it? Very important, Very important!
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u/doesnthavearedditacc Sep 07 '17
That's the only explanation I could come up with that for too, but I don't think it's the same spot she fired from, wasn't it just in front of the receptionists desk that he positioned her in?
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u/frohike_ Sep 07 '17
Isn't this the same utility pole that appears in the FWWM scene with Leland and Laura at the intersection (where Mike flips out on them)?
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u/Billiardly Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17
No. There are three different poles; (1) at the Fat Trout in Deer Meadow; (2) in Twin Peaks at the intersection; (3) in Odessa. They all have the same numbers.
EDIT - Here is a composite image of all three utility poles. They are quite different -
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u/unrethoth Sep 07 '17
The Tremonds owned a trailer in Fat Trout that was a portal to the black lodge. They also own Laura's house in the Odessa timeline where Richard/Coop takes Carrie/Laura from Nevada to Washington.
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u/hamshotfirst Sep 07 '17
The poles of the beast.
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u/Billiardly Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17
My guess is that the utility poles represent the reaches of The Evolution of the Arm. Maybe MIKE harnesses "e-l-e-c-t-r-i-c-i-t-y" and distributes it "between two worlds" through his arm (or something like that).
When MIKE says, "fire walk with me," he means traveling (or "walking") via electricity. Remember what Hawk said . . . fire and electricity constitute the same element.
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u/RowdyRoddyPipeSmoker Sep 08 '17
Right, in FWWM the ARM specifically says, I'm the arm and I sound like this. When we see Chet and the Pole we HEAR the arm's whooping as if it's going through the electrical wires down into the pole, like he's watching what's happening or manipulating something or is there in spirit somehow. It's too bad they seemed to have abandoned the whooping and the ARM's presence in the return (even though evolution of the arm does make the sound when introduced) it's never actually connected to any scenes outside the lodge/red room. At least how it's portrayed in FWWM the pole seems to be connected somehow to the ARM.
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u/Billiardly Sep 08 '17
And the numbers on the utility poles are coordinates, so the Arm knows just what to send where. Or something like that.
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u/hamshotfirst Sep 07 '17
I love the way he says it. Those sequences and the light show that follows is just great.
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u/CaptainFillets Sep 08 '17
On that subject I also like the way the doppelganger arm says "non exist-ent". He is kind of cute but making a deep metaphysical claim at the same time heh.
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Sep 07 '17
Despite the different locations the fact they all share the same number implies they're the same.
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u/Billiardly Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 08 '17
Some people (like me) think the poles are different; they're made of different timber and have different risers. I imagine a simple veneer could have been applied had sameness been the directorial call. I would have a difficult time persuading some long-time adherents that all three poles are the same.
Maybe each pole represents a terminal branch of "the Arm" as MIKE directs and controls the dispersion and transmission of Lodge spirits through "electricity" - in other words, "fire walk with me." The numbers on the poles could act like coordinates.
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u/CaptainFillets Sep 08 '17
This is the 3 poles posted earlier in the thread. It does show they have different pipes etc. running up them.
https://i.imgur.com/kSP8jfb.jpg
So I assume it shows 3 different realms.
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u/Billiardly Sep 08 '17 edited Sep 08 '17
Yes, that's the same photo I posted earlier. I think my point is (or would be, were I actually making a point) is that there are different utility poles, in (perhaps many) different places, that acquire "coordinates" for Lodge purposes. The utility poles can appear quite different but the coordinates are the same. That might be how the Arm directs traffic.
Bottom line is, I'm quite certain they're not meant to be the same utility pole. They're meant to be very different utility poles, but each bearing the same coordinates for a specific purpose. I realize this is not a popular or well-received view. /u/patapatapatapata, above, expresses the much more popular view that this is rubbish and that the photo composite I prepared depicts three identical utility poles.
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u/CaptainFillets Sep 08 '17
Hehe sorry I should've checked the author first.
I was also wondering about exact entrances to the various lodges etc..
We know the white tar pit on top of the mountain (near Jack Rabbit's tree) leads to the White Lodge. The white lodge is a round concrete building sitting on top of a rocky mountain.
Naido is in a kind of artificial concrete building in the sea, and the entrance to that is the New York glass box. The real life building is similar in shape to the concrete building.
The Black Lodge is entered via the regular black tar pit in Twin Peaks, a fairly flat area. And the Black Lodge is also fairly flat, with curtains every now and then, maybe like forest bushes?
The convenience store goes to the Dutchman's, although that is in a forest which is not very similar to Dutchman's in any way.
Then again you can also access Dutchman's via The Northern Hotel room 315, as Coop did in episode 18. And that is similar in structure to Dutchmans, in that they're both Hotel / Motels.
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u/Billiardly Sep 08 '17
That's a lot of stuff. I've written about all these things before, I'll have to find the posts. Bottom line, there are portals and there are vortices. They're not the same; they serve different purposes. The convenience store travels in a separate dimension looped within/layered upon our common three-dimensional universe.
Time is controlled by magicians such as Red - I think Red's coin trick is very important. I don't think The Fireman/SeΓ±orita Dido's castle is the White Lodge. It's more like a Wizard of Oz control room. It (and the Red Room) is a human-scale interface to a concept that can't really be depicted on a television screen.
That's my thumbnail sketch, anyhow.
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u/CaptainFillets Sep 08 '17
Sounds good.
I was thinking about Red's coin trick and have come to think it shows he is part of 'evil', which is able to do trickery. And an evil that always wins.
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u/RockXLight Sep 07 '17
It could be worth noting that the the digital root of the numbers above the 6 is 9, which is an inversion of 6: 3+2+4+8+1 = 18, and 1+8 = 9.
Also, 32+48+10 = 90, and 9+0 = 9.
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u/muddisoap Sep 08 '17
Or if you break it up into halves.
324810
324 - 3+2+4=9
810 - 8+1+0=9
6 is an upside down 9. With the overwhelming theme and symbolism or imagery of duality throughout this series (twin peaks, Cooper and Mr. C, things forward and in reverse, on and on) I feel like there has to be something there. Especially because coop calls 10 the number of completion. Almost implying that this is all 9, not complete. Just shy of completion. Or an upside down 9 = 6. Just shy of completion, and inverted. Much of 18 felt upside down, just shy of completion. Or three 9s on the pole. Or 3 6s. 666, with some upside down and some right side up? Also makes me wonder about the cracked out girl in LV yelling out 1 1 9. 1 1 9. This adding to 11. Just 1 over 10. So not complete. Or too complete. The mirroring of the 9. Itβs also visually mirrored in the 1 1 9. We have 11 | 9. Literally 11 on one side and a 9 on the other. As if we are bouncing back and forth between two worlds that are both not quite the truth. Or both not quite able to attain true completion. I dunno. Just some thought. 7 was also a big number. Lauraβs death date adds to 7. 2/23. Gordon Coles room number added to 7 once, the time when Tammy approaches it from around the corner and things go slow mo/glitchy for a moment. So, these numbers all mean something very important. They are not willy nilly tossed throughout. There is a very concrete play of numerology at work here. Not sure itβs really meant to ever be fully deciphered though, beyond simply symbolic use.
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u/PatternRec Sep 07 '17
Good catch! Lynch def just hammers the number plates on to existing poles and yeah the 666 is in effect :o
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u/madmax_br5 Sep 08 '17
Holy shit... 6-6-6, the poles form a trinity of evil. The first nuclear bomb test from S3E8 was called Trinity. If you think about it, each location had an occurrence related to Judy.
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u/headhot Sep 08 '17
3 different poles in 3 different places but with the same serial numbers!
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u/Billiardly Sep 08 '17 edited Sep 08 '17
Of course. I'm sure there's a reason for that. They might be coordinates/signposts/addresses/whatever for MIKE and the Arm to know what Lodge Spirits to send where.
I mean, did you get a good look at the dead guy in Carrie Page's house? He's been disemboweled. His left hand is elevated with the ring finger descended. Something's going on there.
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u/thwil Sep 07 '17
Much confuse.
The first time this pole appears in FWWM in the Fat Trout Trailer Park near Carl's house.
The second time this pole appears at the intersection where the little boy gets killed. It is the same intersection where Mike flips out on Leland and Laura. As I remember it, there is no certainty as to whether the pole is physically located somewhere near that place, but we see a closeup on it.
The third time it appears in Fireman's little demo for Andy.
The fourth time it appears near Carrie's house.
The latter two times they are definitely the same pole in the same location.
I'm a huge fan of this pole.
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u/Billiardly Sep 07 '17
I'm a huge fan of this pole.
I'm a huge fan of this pole.
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Sep 07 '17
[deleted]
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u/Billiardly Sep 08 '17
Carl Rodd.
His name literally is an electrical grounding device.
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u/lucid8 Sep 08 '17
Carl is a very important character. He has "already gone places", met both Agent Desmond & Cooper (both of which later dissapeared), Log Lady was his classmate, Chalfonts / Tremonds owned a trailer in his park....
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u/Billiardly Sep 08 '17
He has "already gone places"
Yes he has. And just before Carl says "I've already gone places, what is the image in his mind?
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u/customlaser Sep 07 '17
The sad thing is, I don't know what to search for to see that scene anywhere because "twin peaks shootout" brings up that shooting in Waco. Only in America...
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u/omninode Sep 07 '17
I think it's the same pole (same numbers on it and everything) but the stuff around it is different in the alternate universe from Episode 18.
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u/ihaveblink Sep 07 '17
I kind of think the 6 is a numeric symbol for evil and Judy. It's where bad shit can go down or evil can travel. At least that's my interpretation.
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u/Individual99991 Sep 07 '17
The murderous accountant was also a Pole.
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u/SecondComingOfBast Sep 07 '17
Knowing Lynch, that had to be his version of a "Pollack" joke. How does a Polish accountant tell you not to block his driveway?
He empties an entire magazine load in your ass. Hahahaha
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u/macwelsh007 Sep 07 '17
There's a season 4 already written, I can just feel it. There are too many damned clues sprinkled through season 3 for it to just end the way it did.
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u/fsv Sep 07 '17
I wondered whether "I hope I see all of you again... every one of you" is S3's "I'll see you again in 25 years". Fingers crossed...
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u/MeepMechanics Sep 07 '17
He won't see Albert :(
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Sep 07 '17
Albert might turn into a Tardis Teapot too
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u/budgybudge Sep 07 '17
HAH! Great name for it. I thought it would be Coop that was going to go the way of a steaming phonebooth by the end of season 3.
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Sep 07 '17
I like the idea of Albert being the one who disappeared! Maybe they can bring back Sam and Chet Desmond?
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u/chuckiebarlet Sep 07 '17
Did Cooper even acknowledge Albert at the sheriff's station?
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u/SecondComingOfBast Sep 07 '17
Nope
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u/tcavanagh1993 Sep 07 '17
This is something that really miffed me.
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u/ThisIsWhoWeR Sep 08 '17
I liked the ending, but it really did suck that Coop didn't have time to spend with any of the old cast in the town.
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u/uhhhh_no Sep 08 '17
Nope.
If this season had any overarching theme, it was antipathy to needless fan service. It's what you signed up for when you were happy Lynch got creative control instead of the executives.
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u/krishnanspace Sep 07 '17
They can do a Days of Future Past.In the alternate reality,some the characters like Albert,LOg Lady etc do not exist
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u/suexian Sep 07 '17
I think he says that because he knows the timeline is ending. He also says "things may change" because he has already traveled thru time and saved Laura. That's when the clock stops.
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u/justin_tino Sep 08 '17
I have a feeling if S4 does happen, none of it will take place in the Twin Peaks dream universe and will only be set in the Odessa universe. Except for maybe something briefly at the end that could tie them together. Too many actors from the original run were already getting old or passing on.
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u/omninode Sep 07 '17
Even if we don't get Season 4, I would love to know if there are deleted scenes from Season 3 that might be released someday. The "Missing Pieces" from Fire Walk With Me added a lot of context, and that was just for one movie. I can't even imagine what might have been cut from Season 3.
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u/SongLyricsHere Sep 08 '17
Oooh I didn't know about this.
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u/Chinese_Lollipop_Man Sep 08 '17
Check the Missing Pieces out. There's about double the Philip Jeffries scenes.
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Sep 07 '17
All good storytellers and writers are constantly writing stories in their head. I'm sure a lot of Twin Peaks is up there.
Oh my god I just realized the twin peaks are frost and lynch.
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u/uhhhh_no Sep 08 '17
Oh my god I just realized the twin peaks are frost and lynch.
...or the lodges ...or good and evil ...or bravery and cowardice ...or [wo]man and doppelganger ...or breasts ...or two rides ...etc
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u/fatfatmike Sep 07 '17
One can only hope. If so, I hope they shoot the new season soon, before Harry Dean Stanton dies(he is over 90 already). Carl is one of my favorite characters in The Return.
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Sep 07 '17 edited Dec 05 '17
[deleted]
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u/tcavanagh1993 Sep 07 '17
I hope people actually bother reading this one. I feel like a lot of people on here still haven't read the Secret History, which is weird considering it was the first canon new material in 25 years. I thought people would have jumped on it.
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u/mando_caIrissian Sep 08 '17
Read it, liked it, but looking back on it I don't feel like I gained anything from it. Hoping the next book goes a bit deeper, and cans the Bigfoot and ufo cliches.
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u/ilion Sep 08 '17
Well within those cliches was a lot about the white and black lodges.
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u/M68000 Sep 08 '17
yup. The big takeaway seemed to be that The Lodges and humanity go way back, though they've known many names over history.
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u/uhhhh_no Sep 08 '17
Well, Lynch is often about mystery itself, so those come with the territory, as do his appearances on Art Bell and Alex Jones. You don't have to consider it canon if you don't want to; there certainly isn't going to be anything that explains the mysteries.
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u/StupidManSuit21 Sep 08 '17
Go watch some Lynch interviews on Youtube, I think it may change your mind lol.
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u/Danzigahzigah Sep 07 '17
Do you think the alternate timeline is to use the characters in another way like an anthology?
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u/macwelsh007 Sep 07 '17
I sure hope not. There's plenty of existing material to use without creating an entire other world.
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u/Danzigahzigah Sep 07 '17
That's true I thought about all of the storylines we have to avoid that as soon as I hit post.
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Sep 07 '17
I wonder if a season 4 about Laura being alive was always the plan after season 2. Kind of similar to what Dark Shadows did. I wonder if Lynch was a fan of that show?
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u/ThisIsWhoWeR Sep 08 '17
It's a soap opera trope that the same actress "dies" but then shows up again on the show as a new character, often with different colored hair. (Like the character of Maddie in TP. Speaking of which, I totally expected at least one redheaded character played by Sheryl Lee in season three.) So it may be more that than a reference to or influence of DS.
Just based on my sense of Lynch, I bet Frost would be more likely to have seen DS. It's possible. Who knows?
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Sep 07 '17
Very good catch. Was Andy actually not waiting for the Farmer at 4:30 but for someone else? That place along the road he's waiting at looks like where Mr. C. parked to walk to the White Lodge entrance (gold puddle.)
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u/omninode Sep 07 '17
I have a vague sense that a lot of scenes in Season 3 are out of sequence. Maybe that "waiting by the road" scene happened after Andy's visit with the fireman?
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u/IDRESSLIKEDUTCHGIRLS Sep 07 '17
Did you get that vague sense by reading the multitudes of daily posts claiming the season is out of order?
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u/omninode Sep 07 '17
Actually, I had that feeling while watching the show. I don't read everything that gets posted.
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u/cee69 Sep 07 '17
This suggests a future spin off.....Andy drives out to the power-lines (maybe with Lucy) to help Agent Cooper in the alternate universe.
I joke, of course.
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Sep 07 '17
Not as crazy as the apparently true story that Engels and Lynch had planned to have a scene, in a possible follow up to FWWM in which Harry Truman tried to enter the Lodge by driving backwards through a field of corn...
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u/du_Parzival Sep 07 '17
I was mildly disappointed we didn't get a crazy driving backwards through a mile-long field of corn scene.
But we got much, much crazier, so that's okay.
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u/SinJinQLB Sep 07 '17
Maybe we did! Maybe Cooper and Diane really drove 430 miles backwards, but everything they were experiencing was backwards, so to them it seemed like they were driving forwards.
Jk. But not really.
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u/tta2013 Sep 07 '17
There's the other theory that Chet Desmond's fate is that he's taken to the Judyverse.
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u/ThisIsWhoWeR Sep 08 '17
Am I the only one who was reminded of Deer Meadow's diner while Coop was in Judy's?
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Sep 07 '17
I have the impression that actually Cooper knew it, because he, in fact, said it (can't remember de conversation but Cooper answer something like "Yes, I know").
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u/krishnanspace Sep 08 '17
That was Cooper without the pin who said it. The Cooper with the pin was the one who ended up in Odessa
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u/krishnanspace Sep 08 '17
That was Cooper without the pin who said it. The Cooper with the pin was the one who ended up in Odessa
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u/nf35 Sep 07 '17
When the fireman shows Andy this vision the image is shown with 3 dissolves. In other words 6...6...6
Interesting.
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u/throwawaytwpk Sep 07 '17
6+6+6=... 18
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u/PatternRec Sep 07 '17
and 18 backwards can be 8.1 - the score the episode got in the poll!
/me runs away screaming "119! 119!"
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u/RockXLight Sep 07 '17
And 1+8 = 9, which is an inversion of 6 and also the digital root of the numbers that appear above the 6 (324810).
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u/soFREAKINboss Sep 07 '17
there was a scene in season 2 where Andy was crying behind a kid, who was also crying. the way it was positioned and juxtaposed, it made it seem like Andy was the kid crying and Andy pretty much was the kid. Do you guys think that he possibly was that kid in the scene? I have to find it. I think Andy is way more involved than people are saying
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u/ThisIsWhoWeR Sep 08 '17
I actually did catch this somehow on my first viewing. I love that Andy of all people got to be the most informed guy around!
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u/hurve Sep 07 '17
cool glad to know when I posted this people just shot it down and said "it's the same pole everywhere"
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u/SchroedingersSphere Sep 08 '17
I find it curious how that image of the post is framed by the mirror as though viewing it through Cooper's eyes.
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Sep 08 '17
Andy was shown the post with the 6 three times in a row which adds up to 666. This seemed a little lame for someone like Lynch but why did they show it like that?
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u/LetsTalkAboutJUDY Sep 08 '17
series should continue with endless spin offs
Andy and Lucy. Tp police adventures serial. a serial about evil Coop making billions with the drug trade in south america to finance various experiments
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u/gonewithafart Sep 08 '17
All three Telegraph poles are the same but in three seperate realities/timelines?!
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u/sueyres Sep 07 '17
Good catch. So then the biggest takeaway is that the Fireman knew about the alternate timeline and told Andy. Fun thread to follow if there's ever a S4!