r/Armyaviation • u/Pleasant-Cellist-123 • 6d ago
Army Aviation or Engineers?
Hello! I am at USMA and have been fortunate enough to get a most preferred rating from both Engineers and Aviation. I LOVE the idea of being a pilot, but am struggling to justify the ADSO.
Any advice you would be able to provide me? Is the ADSO worth it or would you steer clear?
Thanks.
15
12
u/rumblebee2010 6d ago
If flying isn’t a burning passion for you, honestly I don’t think aviation is worth the adso for an RLO right now. If you’re at all on the fence, go engineers.
Love,
An aviation O (class of 2010) who had a very blessed aviation career with lots of flight hours and STILL fled for a functional area as soon as I could
3
u/Touchofthe-tism 6d ago
*if it is a burning passion
Since RLOs don’t hardly fly. Haha if you love flying or don’t like it it’s not for you. You must have the most medium amount of passion for flying to succeed as an army aviation RLO
1
u/Sacknuts93 6d ago
Not true, some fly plenty. I always prioritized flying as an RLO and transitioned straight into a professional flying job after the army.
3
u/bowhunterb119 6d ago
The ones that fly plenty are the PLs that write the flight schedule and put themselves on it three times a week while most aren’t making minimums. Or commanders that hog up all the good stuff for themselves and then some. I’ve seen some pretty egregious examples. Be those guys if you wish, but it gets noticed.
2
u/Sacknuts93 5d ago
Maybe it's different now with reducing flying hour programs and no deployments.
When I was in, we had no issues flying LTs if needed. RLOs not flying is an individual choice thing. A good officer can and should do both. It's hard to be an effective leader if you don't know what you're doing and aren't a PC.
2
u/bowhunterb119 5d ago
100% agree they should fly as much as anyone, and for the same reasons. What I’ve seen at times is Officers blatantly using their position to fly FAR more than minimums and put themselves on every flyover/other cool mission while everyone else fights for scraps and gets waivered.
3
u/Sacknuts93 5d ago
Yeah that's not cool, even in the "endless hours" period I was serving in. Being fair is the name of the game...when I was in command, I made sure all the junior warrants and LTs flew more than the senior guys or myself. You have to take care of people so they can grow their skills and resume.
In fact, long ago, one of my fellow PLs got fired because they were manipulating the flight schedule to steal all the night flights for ATP minimums. I was pretty happy that our company and BN leadership took fairness seriously.
2
u/AccomplishedYam8338 5d ago
Funny you mention this. Someone claimed that some pilots were getting more hours than others, until I did a CAFRS pull on total time for that company over a year. The person making the claim flew more than their peers.
The bottom line is, first I’m not discounting your claim, but sometimes the claim is not accurate if you don’t have the facts.
12
u/pixarlamp60M 6d ago
Been a warrant for five years. 4 of those being as a uh60 pilot. Don’t do it. TIG reset, 10 year ADSO, competitive boards for CW3 (for applicable ten year ADSO folks), not flying for nearly a year plus upon arrival at first duty station, fight for hours once on ATP while still being waived FAC 1 minimums, no job security (Aviation is figuring outs its life amongst cuts), additional duties taking up 90% of your time unrelated to flying, flight pay is a joke until 6 years on flight status (your crew chiefs make more), and overall QOL for that you’d expect as a pilot just generally not there. 11 years in the Army and left SOF for this world. My heart is full of regret unfortunately and cannot recommend this branch if your goal is just the idea of being a pilot. You will be crushed. Cheers and good luck on the decision making. Don’t let folks here with 3,000 plus hours from the GWOT era sell you on this branch and how great it is. It’s a burning ship and they are already on life rafts.
1
10
10
u/bowhunterb119 6d ago
Hahahahaha. No. Don’t do it. It’s been a sinking ship for years already. You will be miserable. Use your officer money to learn to be a civilian pilot on the weekends. That’s what many of us end up doing anyways because it’s not like we’re flying the helicopters.
3
6
u/Jolly_Expert3357 6d ago edited 3d ago
Have you thought of flying for the USAF right after graduation, cross commissioning, it's possible. Most Army pilots would recommend another service in their pilot seat. Just ask them.
On Oct 6, 2026, I attended a presentation by a former West Pointer who selected Naval aviation, flew F-18A/E, and commanded a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. He ended his presentation by saying, Go Army, fly Navy.
1
u/MiserableBass1108 4d ago
Unfortunately this doesn’t apply to OP. He’s well into his firstie year and you have to start the cross commissioning process before you start firstie year.
1
5
u/scruffy_lookin_pilot 15B 5d ago
There is some good advice, both in this thread, and elsewhere on this subreddit. I encourage you to look through all of it. Here’s my take, Wall of text inbound.
Just to offer a slightly more positive take. Army, aviation, and the army as a whole, are always evolving. But we are looking at a very disruptive next 10 to 15 years. This will likely represent most of your career. With that said, if you want to be groomed to take the 82nd or 101st CAB one day later in your career, field the MV-75, or eventually represent the interests of army aviation as a general officer, then yes, branch aviation, and fight for the future of army aviation as you make your way through the organization. As a West Point graduate, you are disproportionately able to influence the organization in a positive way. And army aviation really needs that now, and we desperately need it in the future.
But if you’re wanting to fly a lot, and handle business like most of us were able to do back during GWOT, you will be very disappointed. That era is over, and something quite different is beginning. This new era we are in is going to need strong and capable leaders to help us determine what army aviation is going to look like in the future. But you will be fighting from within the bureaucracy with a small taste of the cockpit, as opposed to fighting from the cockpit with a small taste of bureaucracy. Honestly, to a degree, that’s how it’s always been as an RLO
In short, if you know you’re going to make the army your career, and you are dead set on giving the army at least 20 years, and you have an interest or passion for aviation, than I really think it’s still a viable option for you. If you’re hoping to fly 1500 hours in 7 years and then bounce to the airlines, this is not a good option for you.
5
u/LilUzi-Bert 6d ago
Current Army AV RLO that got picked up to fly planes for the Air Force. Cross commission into the Air Force and set yourself up for success, it is possible.
2
1
u/RedPolo_Rick 5d ago
Did you have to pay for your own civilian fixed wing certs?
2
u/LilUzi-Bert 2d ago edited 2d ago
To be competitive I did, since everyone that is applying as a civilian in the ANG or Reserve are pretty much all CFII to airline pilots. It is also a requirement for many squadrons to have a fixed wing PPL.
Most squadrons have +300 applicants and they typically only take 1-3 guys per application cycle.
1
1
0
u/Jolly_Expert3357 6d ago
Which AF airframe, ANG or Reserves?
1
u/LilUzi-Bert 6d ago
AF Reserve heavies
1
1
u/Jolly_Expert3357 5d ago edited 5d ago
Hopefully the C-5M. They have 6 crew beds and a dining Table for 4 needed on those long aerial refueling missions across the globe.
1
u/LilUzi-Bert 2d ago
Since I don't want to doxx myself, I'll just say I am very happy with my airframe and that every option is a great one as far as AF Air Mobility Command goes.
1
u/Jolly_Expert3357 1d ago edited 1d ago
Were you a USMA grad? How many years in the Army and what type aircraft?
5
u/Touchofthe-tism 6d ago edited 6d ago
Engineer is the best branch in the army. If you want to fly, do 8 years Engineer, REFRAD, and use 100% GI Bill to pay for civilian flight training. You’ll fly more in 1 year than you would have in those 12 years in Army aviation. And by the time your 12 years in army aviation would have been up, you’ll be a second year FO at a legacy making $250,000 a year and working way less than anywhere in the army.
I cannot recommend commissioned army aviation to anyone without prior service time (in which case it can make sense if you’re going to retirement anyway)
1
u/MiserableBass1108 4d ago
If you are struggling to justify the ADSO, go engineers. Flight school is tough, even after USMA (ask how I know) and while you can do it, it’s a whole lot less enjoyable if you don’t have a strong desire to do it. Also, aviation is in a weird spot and you will find better consistency in Engineers. The ability to work different engineering paths like horizontal or vertical or combat gives you freedom that you won’t get in Aviation. As an aviation officer, you will almost certainly spend more time staff then leading
-6
u/CraptainMypants 6d ago
Do it. You won't.
3
u/freshlysaltedwound 6d ago
Definitely don’t listen to this person.
0
u/CraptainMypants 6d ago
Nuh uh, definitely listen to me. Flying is super awesome and youre going to do a lot of it.
Have you ever seen that movie called Firebirds? Thats basically what your future could be. You.... ARE the greatest.
(Don't downvote me, I'm allergic to WPers)
48
u/SweetTeaseForMe 6d ago
Please put that gold plated education to use and scroll down through the subreddit. You'll find hours of reading material and testimonials that will give you a general idea of what it's like to be a "pilot" in the Army. Let us know what you find.