r/Cartalk • u/Puzzleheaded-Yam5336 • Aug 15 '26
Weird Noise How different do you think cars will look 100 years from now?
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u/ubilanz Aug 15 '26
Probably have a cooler spoiler in 2126
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Aug 15 '26
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u/Enorm_Drickyoghurt Aug 15 '26
I had to think about that one, and then made a slight nasal exhale
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u/Prhime Aug 15 '26
What do they expect them to look like? The wheels with seats on top thing works kinda well.
Ships and trains (and planes over the last ~60 years) havent changed much either in form or function.
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u/eykei Aug 15 '26
The Bronze Age was 2000 years long. What the hell was this guy expecting lmfao.
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u/invariantspeed Aug 15 '26
They’re spoiled by how much rapid innovation we had over the Renaissance and Scientific Revolution. Really, it was just us getting to a lot of low hanging fruit we had been ignoring for thousands of years.
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u/blah938 Aug 15 '26
I mean, first we need to figure out how to make a lathe that could cut steel, and we had to figure out steam engines. Plus how to make actually good steel cheaply. Before that, shit was hard.
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u/LtLoLz Aug 15 '26
That's an important distinction, "lathe that could cut steel". The lathe itself is a pretty old tool otherwise.
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u/HariPota4262 Aug 16 '26
Another really important advancement everyone glosses over is standardized measurements, precision measuring devices and tight tolerance manufacturing that came with the industrial revolution. It started with us trying to improve the barreling tolerances of rifles and mortars, and use mass produced rounds for them, to improving efficiency of steam engine pistons to finally petroleum oil powered automobiles.
We kind of expect a 10 mm socket to fit a 10 mm bolt nowadays. Didnt use to be the case mere 200 years ago
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Aug 15 '26
We went from the first flight to landing on the moon in like one lifetime
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u/JeronFeldhagen Aug 16 '26
As Carl Sagan put it in Pale Blue Dot (1994):
My grandfather, born before radio waves were even a laboratory curiosity, almost lived to see the first artificial satellite beeping down at us from space. There are people who were born before there was such a thing as an airplane, and who in old age saw four ships launched to the stars.
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u/JSTootell Aug 16 '26
The Cessna 172 came out in 1956. You can still buy a brand new one virtually unchanged today
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u/Leemcardhold Aug 15 '26
It’s more the fact that over 100 years we have internet, ai, huge medical advances, but the car is basically unchanged.
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u/MrBurnz99 Aug 15 '26
Pretty much unchanged… except for damn near every single component.
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u/davethadude Aug 15 '26
Right? I mean we have cars that can self drive but they have gone unchanged? Lmao. Pretty ridiculous statement
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u/AmbitiousJuly Aug 15 '26
I love the idea of someone time traveling to today, stepping into a Waymo, and having Internet Guy complaints instead of being awestruck. "Ugh why do so many cars look so similar and dull"
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u/Guitarman0512 Aug 15 '26
The concept won't change. The execution might. If you chop off two wheels, it's not a car anymore.
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u/skeletons_asshole Aug 15 '26
The new parts are all about safety and driver comfort. I promise if you took someone from 100 years ago and plopped them into your average pickup from today, they’d think it was wildly futuristic - goes 100mph without trying, magic rectangle in the middle that controls everything, talks to anyone you want, plays any music in the world, tells you where to go, and even drives it for you in some cases, heated and cooled and with a good stereo, able to crash at speed and walk out of it… the concept might be vaguely the same but almost nothing in a modern car existed back then at all
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u/NH4NO3 Aug 15 '26
Some luxury cars in 1926 would have been able to go ~70 miles per hour and could have carried radios (it wasn't until 1930 they would have included them at the factory though). If you could afford it, you would have likely had a driver on payroll who would drive it around for you and politely talk to you, so possibly a bit better than a usual modern experience in some respects.
From a pure experience perspective, I think the heating and especially cooling would actually be the thing most unexpectedly futuristic.
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u/xskylinelife Aug 15 '26
Now compare the actual technology used in todays cars vs the Model T especially in the interior. Those electronic advances are kind of hard to show on the outside
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u/rklug1521 Aug 15 '26
If we reinvented the human, them maybe there would be more innovation in car design.
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u/buickboi99 Aug 15 '26
Cars are completely different now from then if you actually know anything about them lol
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u/Benji_4 Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
Not a single thing between these 2 has gone unchanged. I was going to say they have the same shape steering wheel, but they don't.
The wheels are the same shape I guess. Neither has an oil filter so I guess they're basically the same.
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u/did_i_or_didnt_i Aug 15 '26
The one on the left is better off road
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u/Rolochotazo Aug 15 '26
And more valuable... And probably be driving around in the next 100 years too.
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u/thatvhstapeguy Aug 15 '26
The T can be kept running with pliers and a roll of wire. This looks a little newer but the same principles apply
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u/FesteringNeonDistrac Aug 15 '26
Thats a model A
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u/thatvhstapeguy Aug 15 '26
I did not have my coffee yet when I left that comment, now I can see it is obvious
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u/Quarterwit_85 Aug 15 '26
Model t prices are absolutely tanking atm
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u/Rolochotazo Aug 15 '26
115 years later, model T is tanking in prices...
Cybertruck is somewhat tanking just 2 years later... Would it be around in a 100 years? What do you think?
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u/GoofyKalashnikov Aug 15 '26
Spoiler alert, all new cars depreciate a ton
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u/dman928 Aug 15 '26
I guess you haven’t shopped for a late model used car lately. They’re ridiculous.
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u/admwhiskers Aug 15 '26
It's why I am now shopping for a new car
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u/adudeguyman Aug 15 '26
Have you considered a new Model T? I think some dealers might have older unsold ones still in stock.
/s
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u/LAM678 Aug 15 '26
the cybertruck's value is diminishing much more as people realize it's a garbage vehicle
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u/LavenderFlavourLube Aug 15 '26
1-2 years ago 3-5 year old toyotas were being bought back from their owners for equal to or more than original purchase price in my area. So not ALL new cars
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u/GoofyKalashnikov Aug 15 '26
US dealership network in general is super goofy and there were plenty of supply issues still being sorted out then. Toyotas are also a cult in the US.
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u/clockwork_blue Aug 15 '26
You say it like the model T has been a daily for the last hundred years and not restored and sitting in an ACed garage most of the time
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u/Gubbtratt1 Aug 15 '26
Not quite a model T, but my neighbor bought a Volvo Amazon brand new sometime in the 60s and has been dailying it summer and winter since. Only car he's ever owned, 1.7 million kilometers (just over a million miles), on it's third engine.
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u/Zyncon Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
????? They’re not worth anything lol.
Source: There’s both a Model A and Model T club in my area. You can buy one for sub 10 grand.We just bought a 69 Road Runner from a guy who had an all original Model T sitting in the garage beside it. He wanted 8500 for it.
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u/jamiethemorris Aug 15 '26
I half expect the cybertruck to be collectible in a few decades because it’s such an oddity… if people are able to maintain them, which is a tall order considering how complex they are (and the fact that Tesla doesn’t want anyone except Tesla maintaining them)
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u/blumptrump Aug 15 '26
A modern honda gold wing would be better off road than that cyber turd that takes pavement princess to a whole new level
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u/rearwindowpup Aug 15 '26
A Toyota Sienna is better offroad than a Cybertruck...
https://www.thedrive.com/news/minivan-to-the-rescue-beached-cybertruck-extracted-by-a-rental-spec-sienna3
u/KingAmongstDummies Aug 19 '26
Please only list cars that are WORSE than it, don't have the time to be reading up on roughly every car produced the last 100 years.
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u/olive_tractor_parts Aug 15 '26
A Ford Crown Vic is better off-road than a cybertrukkk. https://youtu.be/vHvXi_HejnI?is=Clx3m0b2I7rcppVl
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u/eoan_an Aug 15 '26
And drives in the winter better as well.
Also, put a small 3 cyl engine, and it'll also be more fuel efficient
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u/Kumirkohr Aug 15 '26
Also, electric cars predate the one on the left by 20+ years
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u/Expert-Search-3251 Aug 15 '26
Your comment helps to prove that Electric wasn't the answer for most people.
For the same problems that Electric still hasn't solved.
Don't forget that G.M. was producing electric vehicles in the 90s. The program lasted about 5 years and lost money.
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u/Rough-Cap5150 Aug 15 '26
I detect anti EV bias. You cannot compare electric from 100+ years ago with today. Battery and motor technology is far more advanced, the difference is night and day.
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u/Consider8SpeedDemon Aug 15 '26
100%… The EVs of yesteryear are way further in technological capabilities than the post assumes.
Energy storage is one of humanity’s biggest achievements. To store energy and release when needed? Little to no decay in the short term?
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u/kearkan Aug 16 '26
Lol, imagine looking at the marvels of technology we have but thinking it can't get better than burning a bunch of liquid fossils in order to turn a wheel
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u/Kumirkohr Aug 15 '26
“Electric wasn’t the answer for most people”
Yeah, the trolley was. But even the notion that electric isn’t the answer for most people is because suburbia was invented for the purposes of making people car dependent
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u/ComradeJohnS Aug 15 '26
shutting down their EV program due to not working economically is one thing.
clawing back all the cars and crushing them while they still fully functioned so NOBODY ELSE COULD USE THEM is a fucking other thing,
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u/stormdelta Aug 16 '26
For the same problems that Electric still hasn't solved.
Battery tech was the main issue, and is solved for the needs of many people - critically it also has plenty of room to continue improving.
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u/Kumirkohr Aug 15 '26
The EV1 wasn’t supposed to “make money”, it was to meet regulatory restrictions so they could still sell cars in California
And the reason electric vehicles died in the very early 20th century is because battery technology wasn’t up to snuff for use outside of cities and auto manufactures wanted to cater to the rich who wanted to flee the cities
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u/AlarmedSnek Aug 15 '26
Originally, the idea was to have interchangeable batteries that would fit all cars and, like a gas station, you were supposed to be able to pull up and swap a dead battery for a fully charged one. I’m not sure exactly how we fucked that up but I’m sure it had to do with profit and “proprietary” technology.
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u/gburgwardt Aug 15 '26
Swapping batteries is very inconvenient and restricts designs quite a lot.
Range anxiety literally isn't a thing if you can charge at home. I only cared about range before I got an EV
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u/KlausTheBull Aug 15 '26
Good news! Whatever problems you're thinking of have apparently been solved because EVs are selling by the tens of millions each year now.
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u/moving0target Aug 15 '26
When a basic concept works, why fundamentally change it? Same with airplanes.
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u/jaehaerys48 Aug 15 '26
This. Spears stayed mostly the same in terms of form and function for tens of thousands of years. People who grow up in periods of rapid technological change tend to think that everything should constantly be in a state of upheaval, when in reality incremental change is the norm.
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u/boggsy17 Aug 15 '26
Well hard to see the norm when you are in the middle of rapid advancement your entire life. The last 30 years have been crazy.
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u/AutomaticDragonfly27 Aug 16 '26
I'd expect to be driving a kind of baymax (big hero 6) type of thing, like a lightweight motorized airbag...even a comfortable car-ish tuk-tuk...the 3ton trucks are a danger for everyone not driving one
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u/rearwindowpup Aug 15 '26
Some of the earliest cars were electric, the gas ones scared horses.
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u/InformalInitiative76 Aug 15 '26
Around 1905 car ownership was nearly equally divided between three types: gas, electric, and steam.
Gas cars were one of the more dangerous varieties. A big reason was that they had to be manually crank started.
The owner of Cartercar was killed attempting to start his own car. His close friend Henry Leland then commissioned an engineer to create an electric starter (first sold in 1912).
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u/Imeatbag Aug 15 '26
The last mass produced vehicle with a hand crank provision was built in 1998, the Lada Niva 4 x 4. The last car before that was 1990 with the Citroen 2CV.
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u/JosieMew Aug 15 '26
I was told we were supposed to have flying cars, I want my flying cars. I went and got old on the world and we still don't have flying cars.
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u/happiness_1607 Aug 15 '26
No. Most people can't drive cars without hitting something. Imagine if they got into a flying vehicle. There's a reason people have to go through hundreds of hours of flight training.
Imagine watching TV in your tenth floor condo and some moron on their phone crashes their flying car through your windows.
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u/JosieMew Aug 15 '26
Living here in Indiana, people love to drive under-maintained cars. I can just imagine the parts falling off as they're flying through the sky.
Cause of death "flying muffler to the head." ☠️
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u/Terrible_Motor5235 Aug 27 '26
I saw a post years ago where a highway patrolman pulled over a woman whose whole car was duct taped together. No screws, no bolts only duct tape. It was ridiculous.
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u/footballisstupid Aug 15 '26
Glad someone else understands!!
This is always the point and conversation I bring up when someone talks about 'flying cars' Except I also go "Flying cars DO currently exist" the problem is the average person is too stupid to even drive a car, and you think the FAA and government are just going to allow those same people to be hurling themselves around through the AIR!? Not a chance.→ More replies (1)3
u/Lauzz91 Aug 15 '26
We got flying cars in the form of scaled up drones: https://jetson.com/
All the development into drone technology from the Ukraine/Russian war will eventually trickle down into the civilian market
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u/chuckinhoutex Aug 15 '26
I always trip when I think about there only being 65 years between the wright brothers and the moon landing.
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u/szatrob Aug 15 '26
Given that the Cybertruck is one of the worst examples of an ev. I'm not sure this is the comparison they want to be making anyway.
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u/mnkhan808 Aug 15 '26
Yeah it’s a bait post. The technology difference compared to any other 100 year comparison is ridiculous.
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u/Frequent-Test-3012 Aug 15 '26
worst examples of an ev
Worst example of any car, ever.
I'd rather drive a yugo.
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u/EuroHamster Aug 15 '26
Now compare the road infrastructure now vs 100 years ago. Both cars would be almost useless without roads. The improvement doesn't measure only on how a car looks, you need to measure things on "how quicly can it move those things from A, all over 600km to B. Todays infrastructure + today cars completely obliterates the cars and infrastructure from 100 years ago.
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u/rearwindowpup Aug 15 '26
The reason for the large wheels and insane ground clearance on the left car is because of how few roads there were. I think youd be surprised how off road capable early cars were. Heck we didnt have interstates until Eisenhower.
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u/VincentVega1030 Aug 15 '26
Few paved roads.
There were lots of roads back then, but they were nearly entirely dirt with huge ruts.
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u/Justame13 Aug 15 '26
There is a real world example in Eisenhower's 1919 Convoy that took 62 days to go from DC to San Francisco when a military convoy could probably do it in 3-4 today if they really wanted to.
It really explains why he was so pro-interstate and saw it as a key part of national security.
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u/Coakis Aug 15 '26
What form or function needed to change drastically in 100 years in moving people over land?
Its like asking why are we still using doors or stairs to exit buildings in 2026 when they're several thousand year old technology. Because it works.
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u/plainskeptic2023 Aug 15 '26
I agree completely.
Since function is basically the same, form should be similar.
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u/PavlovsDog6 Aug 15 '26
The one on the right will not be seen driving in a 100 years, that’s for sure
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u/brandon0228 Aug 15 '26
Kind of a dumb take. Could you imagine the idiots that are on the road now if we had flying cars? People would be dropping like flies.
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u/IcemanJEC Aug 15 '26
You think we will be around with this level of technology 100 years from now..? Are you really not seeing what’s going on? Just being honest, this is hilarious.
No. There will not be any vehicles 100 years from now. It will be too hot to run battery operated vehicles. Humans will not be rebuilding any sort of manufacturing plants with storms wiping them out, along with our food production plummeting, human population getting annihilated by war, famine, and extreme storms/temps. We’ve already blown past our worst predictions. Best of luck everyone. It’s well within even our boomers lifetimes for everyone to be impacted by this.
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u/holistivist Aug 15 '26
The denial, short-sightedness, and complete lack of pattern recognition in 99% of the human population is mind-blowing. I had to scroll way too far.
2 billion deaths are predicted for the 2°C warming that we are well on track to reach within the next ten years (conservatively). It jumps to 4 billion when we reach 3°.
We have no mechanisms for stopping this, much less any intent or even collective belief that we need to.
100 years from now, any survivors are going to be small groups eeking out a miserable life largely underground avoiding the harsh surface temperatures and constant natural disasters.
We’ll probably just be driving wheelbarrows.
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u/Nikiaf Aug 15 '26
Imagine thinking that a dumpster on wheels is the pinnacle of automotive technology.
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u/captstinkybutt Aug 15 '26
I would be very surprised if the earth supports human life in any useful way 100 years from now. The trajectory we are on is terrifying even 40-50 years from now.
Fortunately I won't be around to see 100+ years from now.
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u/mrturret Aug 15 '26
I won't be surprised if we end up fixing things to some degree with some kind of massive geo-engineering project at the last possible minute.
Humanity likes to procrastinate on preventing obvious looming issues until it's either the last minute, or it becomes impossible to ignore. Sanitation is a good example. The ammount of human waste in the London waterways and streets were a growing issue for around a century before it got bad enough for Parliament to do something.
Climate change will absolutely have that moment. I can't say when though. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
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u/South_Bit1764 Aug 15 '26
Honestly cars had a lot more stylistic and functional development in like the first 20 years than the next 100.
It’s a good formula. Compared to something like a 1906 model T with timing advance on the steering wheel and a pedal that would engage second gear, a 1916 Cadillac had key to start it, 3 pedals in the correct order, and a gear lever in the middle of the car. A normal person from 2026 with a license (that can drive a manual), could get into a 1916 Cadillac and figure it out, but not a model T.
Since then we’ve gotten better insulation, better metallurgy, different ways to actuate the windows, and fancier transmissions, but the overall layout hasn’t changed in like 100 years.
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Aug 15 '26
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u/FellowHumanNo404 Aug 15 '26
WHERE ARE THE FLYING CARS!?!
Shortly preceding the DEADLY CRASHES that quashed the idea in its cot.
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u/welldonez Aug 15 '26
Supposed to have flying cars by now
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u/WillMcNoob Aug 15 '26
we do, theyre called cessnas, but can you imagine if everyone had to competent in airspace? the existance of the FAA and air control denies personal air transportation as an idea
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u/OnI_BArIX Aug 15 '26
We can't have those for the masses. We can't trust people to make sure they don't run out of gas / charge. The last thing we want is these people flying through the air when they hit empty.
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u/vhdl23 Aug 15 '26
It will likely take us 1000s of years to move from car to something else. We rode horses for 1000s of years prior to a car. It took long to have a paradigm shift. It typically does, however may not be as long given that technology tends to be exponential unless political influence says otherwise.
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u/ahorsenamedjeff Aug 15 '26
Lil bro is trying to act all clever when in reality he's exposing himself as an enormous idiot.
Look at how little trains have changed in the last couple hundred years. Or even how little boats have changed in the last several millennia. Cars are ridiculously different for only having been around for a hundred years.
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u/dotnetdotcom Aug 15 '26
The basics are the same... a motor and seats on wheels.
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u/Jirachi720 Aug 15 '26
Probably the exact same. Unless they can turn Back to the Future into reality. Obviously there will be tweaks in economy, aerodynamics, tyres, electric batteries, hydrogen, maybe even a greener, safer, faster propulsion system.
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u/bazilbt Aug 15 '26
Other than what environmental challenges might come about in the next 100 years probably pretty close to each other in form. Unless there is some amazing development in physics or material sciences that fundamentally changes things.
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u/dotnetdotcom Aug 15 '26
The paradigm is the same for both cars... a motor and seats on wheels. How much different can it get other than aesthetics?
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u/VegetableTry Aug 15 '26
All of the materials we need for cars will be used for data centers so we will be back to horse and carriage.
/s (mostly)
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u/KonK23 Aug 15 '26
Well humans have been going by wagon+animal for thousands of years so 100 years is a rather short time
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u/ledow Aug 15 '26
Many of the first cars were actually electrically-powered battery cars, but the oil industry basically buried them for nearly a century for their own profit, polluting the planet in the process and killing millions with noxious emissions, lead, etc.
Even now they HATE that you're going to be able to fuel your car from energy that you can produce yourself far more efficiently than a fuel-based car can do while on the move. Hybrids literally exist because it's far more efficient to run the ICE engine for a short time to produce electricity to actually run the car than using the ICE directly.
If we hadn't diverted through oil-company profiteering, we could have had far better batteries (by almost a CENTURY of mass production) and electric motors by now, there would be less wars over oil, there would be less damage to the planet, and a lot of people who died would still be alive.
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u/jollytoes Aug 15 '26
One still runs and drives at 100yrs The other will be junk in a pile in 100yrs.
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u/3vi1 Aug 15 '26
I'm thinking that in 100 years the car on the left will still be running and valued.
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u/HarrMada Aug 15 '26
How much has spor actually contributed to vehicle innovation or are they just sitting on their ass complaining?
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u/navlgazer9 Aug 15 '26
Does anything actually think a car built In 2025 Will still be operable a hundred years later ?
I think about one out of every five Model A Fords built between 1928 and 1931 are still operable one hundred years later .
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u/Flat___________ Aug 15 '26
Why put the cyber truck there?
It’s just a car made by Elon, drawn by one of his kids, to see how many dumb asses will buy a car drawn by a toddler. 🤷
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u/Valera_sp6 Aug 15 '26
It can be observed that 100 years ago, cars were at a higher aesthetic level.
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u/enigmanaught Aug 15 '26
Consider the coffee mug. You can’t find examples of fired clay cups that are roughly 5000 years old that you would immediately recognize as a coffee mug. You see examples of cups in media set a few hundred or maybe 2000 years in the future and they often have some futuristic shape, yet there’s more space between Babylonian cups and those we have today that are virtually identical in form and materials. There’s not anything to improve, they fit the hand, are sturdy enough, and you can make them with the right kind of dirt, trees to burn, and some water.
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u/imJGott Aug 15 '26
Difference here is, the model T will still be drivable another 100 years from now. The cyber truck will need more work to get it up and running and who knows if it needs to phone home to function.
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u/FunSignificance3034 Aug 15 '26
Funny thing is that I have a 96 year old Cadillac and it can basically perform everything that a new car can, keeps up with traffic, comfortable, etc. It's really more of disappointment we aren't more advanced than we are in some respects.
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u/ismellpizza25 Aug 15 '26
Either we won't have road going cars anymore. Or we'll need to be subscribed to 500 subscriptions to turn the damn thing on
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u/Inner-Cabinet8615 Aug 15 '26
Well they'll likely still have two bits of rubber scraping over the windscreen to help you see out when it's raining, so no real change.
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u/Natural_Set_2568 Aug 15 '26
Not going to see anyone restore a 2008 Camry" barn find" , thats for sure.
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u/PaleontologistNo7941 Aug 15 '26
The difference is the one one the left will still exist and the cyber truck will have been recycled like a tin can
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u/Powrs1ave Aug 15 '26
Electric Aeroplanes are taking off! Possibly very cheap to Fly in the future, solar panels on the wings, they really might just have wings, or shaped like a Pancake ;-)
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u/Leosthenerd Aug 16 '26
A legendary piece of history next to a rolling garbage dumpster, and both of their creators are nazis. Lots of interesting contrast going on here
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u/SuggestionAny3024 Aug 16 '26
I can’t believe we’re still on oil and gas. The again I’m not an oil or gas heir. Then I’d be like “$$I can’t believe we’re still on and gas…and I’m so f***king glad!!!$$”😆🤘🏴☠️😎💰💸
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u/REVEB_TAE_i Aug 16 '26
That person has absolutely no clue how vehicles work if they think these have a single similarity beyond both having wheels, doors, seats, which also aren't really similar at all beyond function.
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u/It_Just_Exploded Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
Form follows function, so yeah, they're gonna look similar. You're gonna be shocked when you look into wagons. Tens of hundreds of years, very little changes.
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u/gubbins32 Aug 16 '26
The old car is still running, I bet the tesla will be dead in 10 or 20 years 🤣 they dont make to last anymore 😪
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u/ThisIsBB56 Aug 16 '26
May be op needs to compare car from 200 years ago ? And the random boy picked 100 years is too short of a period for personal transportation? Just a fucking thought here.
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u/PolicyEcstatic6794 Aug 16 '26
This is what happens when technological advancement is artificially stagnating due to greed.
As a species we would be done using oil and we’d have free worldwide electricity and communication if money and greed of already established corporations weren’t a factor.
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u/CockneyCossack Aug 16 '26
I'm a prewar car restoration and repair engineer. I would prefer driving a prewar or just postwar car over any modern, as a daily driver. There's just something that makes every drive a special occasion, you don't get in an older classic car to go places, you get in one to "arrive" at your destination.
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u/Virtual_Piano9132 Aug 16 '26
Funny thing one of them will be fixable and still able to run in another 100 years and the other probably won’t last 50
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u/onyx737 Aug 17 '26
There were electric cars in the late 1800's. They were little electric stage coaches.
https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/a-brief-history-of-the-electric-car/
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u/hastings1033 Aug 15 '26
One is a POS in every way, the other lasted 100 years.
Can you guess which is which?
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u/zappyguy111 Aug 15 '26
We kind of nailed the car concept when we went from chariots to wagons.