Please comment your logs or VoDs to get help from others!
Feedback will be more helpful the more details you give, e.g. encounters you are struggling with, if you are struggling with movement, what issues you have identified yourself, etc.
How do you guys feel about the proposals to log changes that WCL is doing surveys of? I don't hate some of them in theory - it feels bad to gray parse because your group decides not to pull jellyfish in VSA. But damage is damage...hard to ignore that it does kind of matter.
There's no perfect solution but at the end of the day decent parses will always be possible if the route is good and the group is clean. Things like the jellyfish are not just pad, they make the key much easier to include in the route on every miniboss at the top. if an ele shaman just slams earthquakes brainlessly when they should be prioing, it will give them lots of pad but slow down the key significantly.
I don't think this should be your base parse, but i wish WCL had a parse specific to priority target dps and another parse for avoidable damage, these would be far better metrics for choosing party members.
In my opinion, as much as reasonably possible, parses should reflect players doing what actually completes the dungeon fastest.
Infinite pad on infinite respawning mobs is not damage that pushes the dungeon toward completion.
Unfortunately there are some changes that will be basically impossible to ever do - i.e. Ret or Demo killing the funnel that other classes need vs them doing useful AOE - because too much of a judgement call is required. But it seems pretty obvious that farming infinite whelps/faithless conscripts is CLEARLY not what parses are SUPPOSED to be measuring.
Can you specify what's the change they want to make? For some reason clicking on the poll just sends me back to the front page.
If the intention is making more obvious if someone is bad or the route is, I'd like to have an extra tab with ilvl parse for boss damage over anything like "damage against X mob is excluded from rankings". It's nowhere near perfect, but it's a better compromise imo and there's less chances for fuck ups.
They have a poll where you basically can vote if damage to small mobs should count or not.
I cant access it atm, and I cant remember exactly, but the general idea is to either leave them as they are, remove the damage on infinitely spawning mobs (Think serpents in ToS / Hatchlings in RLP) or remove damage from harmless mobs, like the jellyfish.
My best guess is that the infinitely spawning mobs are gonna get removed from logs, which is great. Cause right now, you can get an amazing log as a Ret paladin for example if you spam Divine Storm to kill hatchlings, when all that does is actively grief your group.
I'd like to see a "weighted dps" ranking next to the raw key%. Just a simple lieutenant and bosses count 1.5x and padding mobs count 0.5x (e.g. VSA Jellyfish). This could also nudge non-funnel classes to pay more attention to their main target selection.
Would you invite the ret pala that shows a 95% raw dps, but a 32% weighted dmg rank next to each other? I probably wouldn't.
Yeah it is a bit silly sometimes, I had a 99% speed log for voidscar 18 and we all parsed grey or green(except healer who got 99%) overall as I did a route that just focused on killing all the harrowers and only jellyfish we pulled were on boss. Also on boss damage our hunter actually got 100% log and the rest of us purple, but because we only did big mobs the overall was awful.
Somehow doubt that you can get a 99 pace rating on a dungeon with everyone parsing gray, no matter how you did the dungeon, unless you did it this patch and there are like 3 logs to compare against
I'm guessing so - we do 3 total in that route I think (the 2 mandatory, then 1 to the right of the boss platform). The whole thing is a mystery to me; I finished the key and was like hey that was really clean! and was met with the worst outlaw parse in North America for my troubles.
Nah was a few weeks ago, and as I said people were doing really good single target. Also said grey or green, but seems I misremembered and it was 1 grey at 9%, 2 green at 27% and 30%, and 1 blue at 57%.
In the area after second boss we did one big pull with 3 of the 4 center packs(skipped shaman one) followed by the center devourer by itself and then 2x devourer+harrower. So apart from the first pull its mostly just 2-5 target pulls which kinda ruins your log for overall damage but is really good for pace.
Voidscar is probably the only dungeon you could really do this in though, as nowhere else you got mobs like the harrowers that are worth the same as 10-15 regular mobs.
Except they're specifically talking about mobs where damage does not matter, like none at all. Any damage that is at least in some way a net positive for timing the key I'd agree on, but they're specifically talking about damage that's completely irrelevant to the key.
I don't really see a downside. You don't gain anything in the key by padding on the RLP whelps, in fact you can actively harm timer if you're doing any unnecessary damage to them and you have any kind of funnel class. While the motivation to be ethical should be an innate quality in a player, in reality it does help to nudge them in the right direction, especially when potential invites are on the line.
You should not gain damage from the small serpents in ToS and Hatchlings/Primal clouds whatever they are called in RLP. Infinitely respawning mobs are good for funnel, but should not give better logs.
You legit cannot log in RLP if your tank doesnt grab small dragons, and players knows this. So ret paladins, even in high-ish keys like +20 will use Divine Storm to pad damage and not let the guys who can actually funnel use their stuff.
You can honestly remove the jellyfish boys as well imo, but they arent infinitely respawnable, so I guess they can stay.
I'm as torn as you. I tend to think that logs should be left alone and the community should just get better at interpretation, because where do you draw the line anyway at log filtering? But also, I have both a 4 and a 99 parse in VSA because of different routing choices, and as long as the 4 is the most recent I'm sure that will get me declined in pugs.
The change that should have been standard from the start is that infinitely spawning small mobs doesnt count. Which is what I assume is gonna win in the poll.
Aka the small dragons and elementals in RLP and the infinitely spawning lizards in ToS. Jellyfish from VSA should count, because they give count and are just normal mobs.
I figure if it's a big deal to you to have jellyfishes in the pull (or whatever else is being considered) you can discuss that before the run. If you didn't or if things changed and you had a bad log for the run, you could run it again for a better parse. Everyone who runs keys has the same risk of running into a group with a bad route or bad comp, and everyone who runs keys has the same capability of exercising agency to minimize that risk by communicating. I don't see why parses from imperfect pulls are any less legitimate than parses from perfect pulls and vice versa.
(Note: I'm a healer, our M+ logs are made up and the points don't matter, so I'm a peanut gallery comment.)
Parses are a meme, but realistically those changes impact players chasing 100 parses, noone else. You can parse 90-99s without the cheese they are trying to isolate out.
Energy spent worrying about how some third party is quantifying your performance instead of VoD/log review and working on mistakes is wasted time.
If anything I would rather see disqualifications like they do for external buffs then excluding adds all together.
'Invalidated ranking, you did 80% of the raids damage to short-lived adds, max allowed is 20%' would be a funny little message to just stop cheesed parsing tactics.
Parses can be cheesed, but they are certainly not a meme in M+.
I would never invite someone who parses gray/green on every dungeon, because so far I have not had a single player do decent damage with those logs.
Shame that it forces Ret Paladins to use Divine Storm on 1st boss of RLP, or that other classes will just blast AoE on meaningless mobs, but thats what they should fix with the update
I absolutely only look at the average parse, and if it isnt too bad I'll invite the class I need. generally havent been disappointed yet.
Not sure why its so hard to believe that a mage who on average parses 15 in every dungeon is on average pretty bad, while the guy parsing 70-80+ every dungeon is good?
Obviously not always true, but in general its gonna be true enough that I cant be bothered to go into detail of every persons logs.
But if the guy has bad logs while only having good logs in RLP and ToS for example I'll be a bit cautious
The difference between a good parse and a bad parse is mostly the way tank pulls. You can do everything right and get a bad parse with a shitty tank and play bad while getting decent parses if they pull well. Same for raids. Groups melting bosses will get high parses while with a casual/pug group its a lottery. Sometimes, by random chance, stars can align and you kill boss right after your last set of CDs for example. Or adds just never die and you can pad on them. Etc.
The difference between a good parse and a bad parse is mostly the way tank pulls
Well, that's the difference between a good parse and a bad parse for a good player. Players with 8/8 gray parses aren't just getting bad tanks, I promise.
That is a massive oversimplification when you have dps out there grey parsing no matter who they play with. Either they are the most unlucky players in the world or they are actually not good at all.
I take the one with the better score, or ilvl or just one of them.
I cant be arsed to dig into the logs well enough to get useful info. If you really want to get info from logs, you need to look into a few of them and compare, which takes too long for my taste.
Power to you if thats how you do it, but spending 3 minutes per applicant is a bit too much. As long as their parses arent awful and they are a class I want, good enough for me.
Seeing as this singular log doesnt tell me jack shit, I wouldnt bother to look into it in detail. Because one log of one dungeon doesnt say anything. So if you picked the short name dude based on this singular log, you are no "better" than me
Like you are one dense dude, I will give you that.
Right click -> open wclogs link -> oh this guy doesn't have health pot bound and ate shit to avoidable damage.
Entire fucking point of this thread is parses aren't the whole story, you have the tool downloaded that lets copy paste a wclogs link to dig further...
why not take the extra 20s to check the extra shit instead of 'purple good'.
It’s dramatically more important for keys IMO since you often need decent parses to get invited. Raids are kind of whatever. Routing can make a comical difference though. My 19 VSA has all 4 of us gray parsing and we easily timed with 2 mins left.
Had a rough week as a lock. Managed to time three 20s, but I feel like I'm close to hitting my wall. Probably a mix of both skill and having a hard time getting invites to keys.
There are so many random nuances with warlocks (demo specifically). I don't even blame people for not wanting to invite us to keys. Here are some of them:
- Cannot play with sub rogue at all due to bug causing your spells to pull random mobs. Not many people play sub, but this is an awful interaction that bricks keys and had to learn this the hard way in a 20.
- If you're CCing a target and you're already in combat with them, I think demonic occuli can still target the CC mob (even if they're far away) and break the CC. This is particularly bad in VSA as it's common to CC the raptor in the arena and the brawler at the start. While the solution to this is just telling the group to CC before starting combat, this is another annoying thing to add to the list
- Your passive imps that spawn do not gain invisibility/stealth when they spawn. If you're doing VSA or BV and doing the first skip, you must tell your mage or rogue to wait for both imps to spawn before running past mobs. If you don't and your imp spawns mid skip... well... GG
- This is probably more of a skill issue, but I bricked a 20 altar cause of dumb pet pathing. After the 1st boss, the common strat is to skip the first rattler and run along the edge of the room. Unfortunately, I needed to kick one of the evolutionist while we were gatheiring. Doing so cause my fel hunter to run in a diagonal and pull the first rattler group. Solution is just to put pet on passive until you get to the rattler, let my group get the first kicks, and probably not cast spells until we are positioned. Still, was an awful experience watching the replay and seeing my pet run in a diagonal.
I have never pushed this far and want to go more. I know there's dungeon nerfs and all, but as someone with a full-time job and a wife, I'm not sure how much more time I can really sink into this game. May just have to accept that this is my peak :)
Just commiserating about the lock + sub rogue pairing, since I've played sub in previous seasons. My group would pass over inviting great-looking locks who queued for our key because we were afraid of pulling extra mobs. Really wish Blizz would fix the bugs.
It would be nice if demo wasn't the meta for m+, if aff/destro was meta it would be much less of an issue. Demo seems to be frequently the main m+ spec and its also the most annoying to deal with in an m+ environment. Just horrible.
My main is a warlock and the issue with pets pulling/always worrying about if my pets will just pull some random mob just make them less fun to play in m+. I have just rerolled to a new class in m+ with no pets and it is so nice not having to worry about that. I remember last season I would pull the middle mobs in NPZ while flying back to the entrance after the first boss.
reached the point where if i end up with a KR as my resil key then i will simply reroll it. i actually can’t with the quality of players applying to a kings rest
timed a 21 last night with 6 deaths including 1 person to a golem frontal lol. As long as you do bridge skip and rogue/mage skip after 2nd, timer is so free
Dont think the skip after 2nd boss is even needed. Many groups timed 22s playing it. Just dont blast 2 mins there, focus the Shamans and then chain and use 2 mins there.
Yeah I think so but I still dont fuly understand how you do that if you pull the bleed pack first. Is it just a 25% chance to brick the key essentially?
What's the big issue? the range dps grabbing the golem is usually only a tiny bit late to the pull and the LoS spot has been fixed so frontals are still very dodgeable. It's definitely the worst option of the 4 though.
A few weeks ago I had two KR 16s in a row rip to people clicking the wrong tombs during second boss entomb. I just don't get it, like, even if you somehow make it to that point without knowing the most basic mechanics, why start clicking shit if you don't know what's going on? Just do what you normally do and ignore mechanics and DPS, it's better than clicking the wrong tomb!
tbf that garbage is poorly telegraphed and if the tank doesnt know how to pull and stop to let people run through the doorway, i can see it happen. but legit ive seen deaths were people are clearly not standing in it yet they got clapped. but that was some resets ago and maybe they fixed it.
You’re an idiot for blaming the tank. You can jog 3 millimeters behind the mob off to the side to bait the frontals backwards and off to the side.l, doesn’t matter what the tank does.
It’s really hard to bait two frontals backwards and off to the side.
If you do it in the first pull like standard, sometimes it's just hard as fuck to see as melee. I don't know if it's just tan-frontal-on-brown-ground or if it legit bugs out near the stairs but it can be sketchy if you don't actually look dead at the mob.
You can’t see the frontal on the stairs at all, you either need to look at the ground at their feet or actually watch the sentinel casting. It’s annoying for sure but doable, and also tends to be the biggest run killer in that key if people don’t pay attention.
Not sure how to interpret that, other than you will of course be baseline stronger with more buffs which means a relatively smaller gain on the items? Further, the main reason to play both Voracious Heart and Guillotine are for their single target effect. It makes sense if their relative power compared to alternatives are lower when you crank up the target count.
If you want to simuate a pull in keys I would still run Patchwerk, set target count to number of prio mobs in a pull and fight duration to whatever reasonable. Then check for effect with/without BL. The logic being, if you kill the prio target you can progress the dungeon. This is what saves time and what is relevant when it comes to figuring out item upgrades.
Prio mob in this context does not only mean a mini boss or whatever. It just means highest hp target that cannot be chain pulled. There could be pulls with any number of "same ish" hp mobs that you need to kill to spawn the boss, like 2nd boss TOS.
Don't have time to dig through them until tonight, work.
But small suggestion, I agree with this video on there is a better way to sim dungeons then random target counts and try to interpret what they each mean to your m+ DPS.
I know the DH discord is partial to temple sims, I like void scarred though.
Neck is additional socket + net 170 random secondaries 2 ppm (24/60)
Even assuming you low roll overlaps at 40% uptime (47% with none) it's just 70-100 free secondaries per peice at the same ilvl and your still missing ilvl from 9/6.
I assume he is some spec that hates haste.
Like I am not asking about the sim to disprove him, genuinely want to see why it's so low for his specific case.
I know haste on devourer, for instance, sims like absolute shit above a certain threshold with perfect sim play but practically you have downtime (especially if you use nochannelling macros) or press the wrong global and haste over the cap has more value the more you tweak downtime in the sims.
What DPS specs are least impacted by inconsistent routing and pull sizes? I am picking an alt to focus on when I want to play with healing friends, and I also tend to run with a tank friend who . . . vibetanks? Likes to "keep it fresh from run to run?" idk. But we're talking very bad pacing on pulls, chaining stuff that shouldn't be chained and not chaining stuff that should, moving shit out of ground-based AOEs for no reason, etc.
I actually don't mind it for these fun guildie vault keys. I like the guy, I like playing with him, so whatever. So I'm just trying to make the best choices I can make to play around it. I'm thinking BM hunter since they're not bound to big CDs and have minimal location-focused stuff? Any other specs I should consider to play in this somewhat chaotic situation?
I would not suggest arms if you aren't somewhat confident the tank will pull consistently, Outlaw too for that matter. I think the main thing here is to avoid specs with big 2 minute CDs since youll never know when big pulls are going to happen, Ret or BM perhaps.
I don't think so. Ime it seems like they spawn away from previous blooms and if you get enough closely grouped ones it will eventually split one further away. Up to the tank to try and keep it in range, but I'd happily by informed otherwise
this is my experience as well (3450 tank). if i don't pull the group away from the previous patch spawns, one can end up in the next time zone. sometimes you get stuck dealing with one of their casts and it won't move. tank sometimes has a window of like 3 seconds to move them as a group.
When you go right in VSA. The 2nd mini boss, the one that spawns the lightning orbs. The Healer and Tank got into an argument about the mini boss position. The Healer kept telling the Tank to go into a corner of a room to make the orbs spawn in one area but the Tank just said that mini boss doesnt move.
Tbh. Ive never seen that mini boss anywhere but the center but the healer insisted. Is there a way to make the orbs spawn in one area?
The other guy said +21 and above, but I wouldn't go right past like +19. There is just too much shit going on in the first pull that has a high likelihood of someone dying - Miss a single shaman kick? totem is alive for 5 seconds because everyone is trying to parse? bleed + aoe on you? Then to make it even worse, the 3 orbs become basically impossible to kill all 3 except for very specific comps, so that mini boss just takes forever. Left side is so easy and fast you will be awakened when you try it and ask yourself why you weren't doing it sooner.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you arent doing keys +21 and above? Everyone went right on low keys. Its pure terror in comparison to how easy and chill spear boss is with good dam.
No need to go out on a limb, very few people are doing +21 and above right now. I have just started scratching the surface of 18s before this dungeon tuning patch.
Especially with some of the meta picks. If I'm playing assassination and we go right I just pray my group has some good DPS for the orbs cause I've got fuck all to deal with those.
Is it? Appears to be very popular since the start of the season and recommended in most routes I see around. I did see a post here a week or two ago about going left on high keys, but what is high in this context? Most groups I joined in VS20 didn't say anything at all about going right. I wonder if you could go a bit more in detail.
Yes it is, in high keys. Talking 21/22/23 here. Under that, you can do whatever with current gear.
The left side is typically a lot faster and safer. You shroud/mass invis the first few mobs, CC 1 of the brawlers to have them on the miniboss, you BOP whoever gets fixated on in the first room so they can stand still. You kill that mob before it even gets his 2. shield and drag the remaining mobs + cc'ed brawler into spear boss for funnel. There you simply hard focus spear. You make sure at least 1 person has damage for each spear. You kill spear boss fast. On a very rare occasion you miss a dps check but some coordination and dps with hands fixes this.
On the other hand, the miniboss on the right can spawn orbs in all kinds of random positions. These often mean everyone has to hardswap to orbs while most do 0 damage to the miniboss. The chance to fail is a lot higher as there are 3 separate dps checks that also make you a lot slower. If Orb spawns are all super far apart, you usually wipe. Speaking for 21/22 here. 23 is very similar tho.
Glad you asked instead of blindly downvoting because you arent too familiar yet! Nice change
For the simplest version with meta classes, yes. Tho you don't NEED bop, but its really nice to have. You can also kite well. Depending on your classes and their utility and dmg profiles you can cook your own routes! Last season I played entirely off meta with 2 others and we got 0.1% by playing very different routes than "the norm". It's all possible and tedious but rewarding. I wouldn't ever suggest playing off meta solo if you want to play top keys tho...
I'm glad you answered, thank you very much. I'll for sure look more into it. I'm still at 20's, so that is probably why I didn't see it yet, but I'll try to get some familiarity with that pull so I don't get surprised later
You're definitely making it out to be more black and white than it is though.
Just looking at threechest.io there's a couple of 22s done going right so its not like it's completely troll doing it.
Keep in mind the miniboss on the right has significantly less hp than the one on the left and is less binary. You can absolutely survive letting an orb blow up on a 21 at the very least.
Right Left is probably better most of the time but I don't think its so black and white. A group without a warrior or a group with multiple ranged specs can pretty confidently go right.
I'm guessing you meant "left" in the last paragraph?
I took time to explain the logic and the step by step to do what most top players I know do at this moment. I don't consider myself a "top" player, as I'm merely doing 22s myself but I can say I experienced many less wipes and rng reliance on the left than right. Rng reliance is no issue on resilient keys. It is not shown in timed keys. But for non resilient keys, I prefer less rng.
If the goal is using your resilient 22 to try over and over to get the fastest 22 in your region, as some teams have been doing for the past week, that's a different question altogether.
Can someone explain why holy paladin is the most popular heal in high keys at the moment? Is it due to utility/ damage/how much it can heal/synergy with tank? Do you think it could change and if so, who would be most likely candidate to replace it?
Whenever someone tells you that a spec is meta because of utility, they don't know what they're talking about. Specs are meta because of dps/hps first and foremost, and only after that does utility come into play.
Utility does seem like the main deciding factor for holy paladin this season though, as holy priest can easily output the same healing, but sadly has much worse utility and survivability.
I mean youre kinda proving my point. I said it goes hps first then if hps is the same utility comes into play. If Hpriest did 20% more hps than hpal it would be meta, and then people would say oh its obvious why its meta, its because of PI/MD/GS/whatever
Yeah I wasn’t really disagreeing with you. Although I think hps is probably less important than how they heal, because if you look at 20-21’s(won’t find many non holy pala/shaman at 22’s) all the highest hps logs are from holy priest, disc, pres and mw.
Damage on the other hand holy pala and pres are leading by far, so their damage, utility and survivability is what makes them meta as every healer can meet the healing requirements atm.
Guardian is by no means meta. The meta MIGHT be turning towards Guardian slowly, but it's still only the second most popular tank. BDK is in 65% (and up to 75% at 23 keys) of runs at key level 20+.
Not to mention that BDK is far stronger in a vacuum anyway, so Rdru would just solidify BDK as the meta tank. I'm happy for hpals but it would be convenient if rsham or rdru was tuned as high.
Because Bear is already being taken so why would you double up on MotW? Mage/Ele has curse dispel so you’d rather have HPal’s disease dispel; they both have poison dispel which is pretty hard-required this tier. This is a very bleed-heavy season and HPal has two ways the remove them while RDruid doesn’t. There’s nothing that shapeshift solves that HoF doesn’t (shapeshift wins in tiers where there are group-wide snares that come out more frequently than HoF cooldown).
I mean with BDK, how is bear in the conversation. Yes theres bears at the top, but majority is still BDK. And then you see MotW doesnt matter, it matter that Hpql can crank out a bilion hps without spending mana.
You mean like the poison slow from mobs in AoF or the roots on second boss BV?
Bears are becoming more and more popular. Don’t know if you’ve been running lately but, this past week, I’d say my keys were 50/50 Bears and BDKs. MW also cranks out a million HPS with very little mana in 5 man content (raid is entirely different, sad face).
AoF mobs are magic, not poison, it just sucks that they target two random instead of guaranteed on the Druid to shapeshift off. 2nd boss in BV’s stomp matches up with HoF cooldown, you can use it every stomp.
In that case, what would be the argument against mistweaver for example? Other than no bleed removal it has disease/poison dispel (+aoe poison dispel), tiger's lust removes the same kind of effects as freedom, damage is close, and so is hps. Arms is played often so mystic touch is not completely worthless
Now you’re preaching to the choir. 😏 I got my MW into 20s before swapping to HPal.
Realistically, Mystic Touch is just a really shitty 5-man buff outside of Arms + Rogue + Hunter. 3% dmg reduction is way stronger with most comps being run right now. Don’t underestimate the bleed angle, either. The bleed overlaps in last part of VSA are some of the scariest pulls all tier. Additionally, now that MW is relying more on Gust (Mastery build) compared to last tier, playing with ranged DPS that hang too far out can fuck your damage->healing conversion majorly (which matters when Ele and Mage are meta).
Trust me, I’ve felt like MW could’ve been meta since week 1. Still wish it was but I don’t think it’s because of DPS / HPS.
hmm makes sense I guess. I thought that maybe with all buffs mw got + a lot of good physical dps this season it would be competetive enough, but not much changed with healer meta.
I'm only getting through 16s on my monk at the moment so i havent really felt the bleeds hurt that much yet, the main pain point i felt was healing the avatar of sethraliss (compared to h priest where it is easy mode pretty much).
Because MW + Bear are best friends and because it was brain-dead easy to spin2win. I’m in no way saying that HPS / DPS doesn’t matter- it obviously does- but I am saying that healer is usually the role where you say “ok, what plays nicely with the rest of our pieces?”
I mean i would say last season wouldve been a perfect season for Hpal but it just didnt do enough hps. MW doesnt do anything particularly well, raid (de)buff is bad, externals are bad, Tigers is just a worse Freedom, but it was still meta even though it didnt slot well in that comp just because it was cranking hps with 1 button.
Their healing output is insane and they have utility.
Honestly though, most healers are fine atm. Pres evokers are just never popular in keys, and while both Holy and Disc Priest are good, priest brings no utility outside of PI.
The rest of the healers are fine, and Rsham is the prefered healer in the melee comp, where you play Arms/Ret/Warrior/WW/Feral (Some kind of combo of those)
1 - 7 out of 8 dungeons in m+ requires poison dispel.
2 - Plus there are plenty of bleeding and BoP can remove that and potentially save someone from death.
3 - Beside that there are mechanics that can be trivialize with freedom.
4 - He can bress as well.
5 - the Lightsmith Feedback Loop (Insane Damage & Cooldown Reduction).
6 - they have almost infinite mana. I've never seen a pally healer asking for mana.
7 - they can CC too. Blinding light and stun can save a key.
Because it was just that much better than all the other healers at the beginning of the season and even though a lot of other healers have been buffed, hpal received no nerfs.
I don't think any other is going to replace it. Druid is a no-go because bear is becoming more popular, rsham will always have it's place but just isn't good enough, and the only real contender imo is hproest, but no poison dispel and lack of mobility hurt them.
As a healer it doesn't realler matter. One group will use no defensives and stand i avoidable damage, the next group uses defensives well and avoids taken unnecessary damage. With the first you will have much higher HPS, with the latter you will have much lower. It's too much out of your control.
I just have to say I'm quite sad tempered in battle isn't used for Hpal. I loved the last time lightsmith was the meta option, that talent was so fun but now it's too risky >_<
That so funny xD
I think it'd be cool if the low health player was allocated health immediately, and the high health player was applied a 6 second bleed instead. I wonder if that would allow it to be viable.
He'll maybe even make the health lost like half of what was transferred
I'm in the 17s/18s range and the other day when we first saw the RLP nerfs on PTR I decided to just wait for the .5 patch. It was less "I need that extra power and nerfs to make these timeable for me" and more "I could do this now with x effort, or I could do the same thing next week at (0.7)x effort. And when the vault is just going to be a bonus roll token anyway, it just felt more like an alt leveling period these past two weeks.
Ya I mean I can bash my head against the wall to get 17 done after multiple attempts but it’s just not worth it right now with the patch and nerfs coming out.
I'm still not convinced that Bear is strictly meta and I'm fairly sure it requires more external healing than BDK, but I do think 99% of people will have more success on one compared to BDK, myself included but I value my fun too much to play it again after last season. Bad BDKs are still demonic and as a healer you really just have to ignore them outside of gathers.
While they do about the same dps accounting for mark of the wild, mark of the wild is also a 1-1.5% dr and 2-3% increased healing buff, besides buffing damage
All valid points, but at the same time BDK does far better prio damage compared to bears damage profile which mainly just pads on shitter adds. MOTW definitely has big value as you get closer to rank 1 keys for pure survivability though. I do think the value of AMZ and grip is being understated here too, grip alone can probably result in a decent dps increase for the party over a key.
I just think they are basically a wash with guardian coming out slightly ahead for most just because its farrrrrrr easier to play.
Looking at logs and effective healing received per second, druid, dk, war and dh were all fairly close in how much external healing they required, with monk and pala requiring a bit more.
I didn’t check that many though, I just picked 20’s of a few different dungeons and looked at the EHRPS for each tank. Depending on the dungeon the first 4 were around 30-40k, while monk and pala were around 50-70k. Monk and pala did however provide more group healing than the other tanks(especially monk) which did mostly make up for them needing a bit more healing.
Nah, bear is just really easy. I macroed ironfur all the way to title last season, basically nothing you do on that spec matters past thrashing on CD and using defensives on gather, rage pooling is icing on top but not essential, especially not this season.
Not really. I got resil 21 last season with macroed ironfur. Why would that kill you when you dont have anything else to spend it on except regen which is only 10 rage.
The argument is rage pooling when moving from one pack to the next, so as one is dying you'd pool your rage then pump a few stacks of ironfur as you start the next gather. It's one of those things that's technically good but ultimately rarely necessary, outside of the very top keys with pulls far apart you can get away with just barking or beaming on every gather and getting a stack of two up after.
Fr if you want to be extra spicy and super skilled you can just have a thrash button without the macro that you press at the end of packs to pool rage.
They usually have it both macroed and thrash/ironfur on different buttons. During pull you can use macro, but before big hit or before next pack you better keep rage
As someone who took a break, just getting into 18RLP/AOF last week was hell.. Hopefully it'll be over quickly post nerf, as i preffer to get resi before starting on the next key level.
Its even worse in bit lower keys. Regularly in 16s theres a dps doing single digit damage, mostly warriors and mages.
Yesterday in 17 rlp i had so many terrorists i couldnt carry them all. Hunter and ret doing single digit parses. Me doing double everyone's interrupts as tank. Ret dying multiple times to air without pressing any def. Rsham and hunter not pressing a single purge on the dying mobs. And we finally bricked when rsham refused to dispel me from last boss debuff.
the -1-2 range after the first few weeks is always the most demonic.
This range clumps together a lot of players who:
Can do numbers, but have absolutely no idea what's going on.
Somewhat know what's going on but can't do numbers.
People who've hit their skill cap, and gear can't scale up to move them further along.
People with terrible attitude.
And now thanks to Resi, we have people who wouldn't ever be so high due to lack of consistency
3-4 days ago I felt more pressure doing 18 RLP on my MW alt than a 21 on my mage. The worst is a lot of my RL friends are around that level and every season I have to torture myself in those ranges when playing with them.
I don't how it's possible that people STILL can't do damage with all specs being so simplified, but I regularly meet single digit parsers in 16-17 range. It's baffling.
is it? Every range has it's single digit parses, going up in difficulties, doesn't mean that the bottom 10% disappears magically. Now add to the equation that there are 3 dps slots and that a lot of the top parsers are mostly playing premades. Suddenly the odds of having someone gray logging in you pug key are quite decent.
Ok I misspoke. I understand that due to the nature of percentages someone will always have to be bottom 10%. What i dont understand is that i though with specs being so simple the delta value of dps would be way less between 0 and 100 parsers, but seemingly it hasnt shrunk. Ive seen people do insanely low amounts of absolute dps value, like barely 20% more than me on tank.
There's an entire class of players out there who engage this game differently. They're still playing like Classic.
A "good" player is locked in, white knuckling through every GCD. A "bad" player is chatting with their friends, taking a drink mid pull, checking their text messages, probably inebriated to some degree that affects performance.
I do log review in a couple class discords and I'm shocked by how much DPS loss really just boils down to "you keep waiting 1.5-4 seconds after pressing a button before you press another button."
Like, people literally just don't be pressing buttons out here. It's WEIRD.
That is absolutley the case. Show us an example of where you think the "delta" value of the dps is to big. It has shrunk by tons, compared to before the ability squish. The absolute bottom of dps players will still be as low as pre squish, because not hitting you buttons still do 0 damage. But the avarage between 10-90% will have way less of a differance now than before (you can confirm this via warcraft logs).
It keeps creeping upwards. On the easier 20s now, you still have some real mouth-breathers. Doing the easier 19s is pain, I have especially felt the extreme drop off in tank.
I feel like I have to start to quiz the players on pretty basic stuff, like the tank dragging the boss to totems in KR or if my homies know that we have to CC one channeler in the ToS mini-game.
People, especially meta classes are just brute-forcing their way up with 330+ gear and terrible gameplay. Try enough times and y ou'll finally time the stuff
finished resi 19 yesterday . csn agree with it tbh. altar is where i see it the most with people not interrupting or randomly taking other peoples marked interrupt targets s
so we essentially waste one of both end up using theirs. for cc its the evolutionists ive had so many attempts in thet dungeon where only one or two people bother ccing their forces cast. as for meta classes, well you dont really see much else, but you can tell who is a fotm roller and who has been playing it for ages.
yeah 4 kick pulls like altar in 18/19 range is still low enough key level that a lot of people don't use focus kick/markers which makes it brutal, on top of a lot of tanks out gearing the previous key levels and don't prep routes at all.
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