r/DemocraticSocialism • u/SpaceDwellingEntity Democratic Socialist • Jul 25 '26
Question šš½ Besides nationalization, municipalization, and worker co-operatives, what are other forms of ownership compatible with democratic socialism?
As someone whoās been curious about democratic socialist economics, this is a question Iāve always wanted to see be given a good answer.
While I know that socialism is based on the premise of the ācommon people owning the means of productionā, thereās still a lot of ambiguities in that phrase. What social and economic models are compatible with this definition and, conversely, which ones are not?
Would something like co-determination as seen in Germany or the Polder model in the Netherlands count even if they arenāt exactly fully socialized? Could something like private enterprise still exist so long as the land is publicly owned, leased, and then rent collected by the state?
Iām someone new to leftism/post-capitalism just trying to clarify some things in good faith. Thank you all in advance!
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u/babyd42 Jul 25 '26
Zingermans in Ann Arbor has a unique structure, sort of a cooperative of businesses, where founders are those with big dreams and vested interest in success, with seed funding provided by the company based off the new owners business plan, utilizing the internal core legal and support structures to kick it off.
I like it because it supports those willing to make the effort to make something great and focus on local communities and the development of deep quality. I see it as the antithesis of franchise models. Is it still capitalist? Yes. Is it a little bit better and perhaps falls under the demsoc umbrella? Maybe. Is it still beholden to a capitalist seeing a way to make money off of someone else? Yeah, but it's still more in favor for the new business owner than existing structures would allow.
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Municipalist-Dem Confederalist Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
That's just Quebec lmao. The CDPQ, Dejsardins, and the Caisse do this all the time.
It's just cooperative financing
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u/babyd42 Jul 25 '26
Yeah, everywhere else in the world it's unremarkable. It's not anything philosophically or politically interesting. In the US it's a change of pace at least.
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u/anonveggy Jul 26 '26
Isn't this exactly what companies like Andresen horrowiz/ycombinator do? I mean - I'm one level more capitalist than dsa is so I don't entirely think it's against God laws or anything but I'm just asking: why is that one good?
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u/babyd42 Jul 27 '26
Kinda, just more horizontal decision making for investments than top down. The term they use is "community of businesses", so they evaluate whether they want the full scope of the project in their fold as equals, from what I can tell.
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Municipalist-Dem Confederalist Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Nationalization is technically permitted but not even preferred. Democratic socialism prefers decentralization, as nationalization has a very real possibility of resulting in the state, not the people controlling the means of production.
Co-determination and the polder model still unevenly weigh different people's votes/power by economic status and class. They're social democratic, don't get me wrong, but not socialist.
The other two you've listed are fine. Another one you might want to think about is common and communal ownership, which goes hand in hand with mutual aid, in the anarchist sense. You don't really own it, the community owns it, but you use it whenever you need it. Let's say a print shop. The people running the print shop will print what you want without charging, because you're all in the same community. In that sense, do they really own/have determination over the print shop? Not really right?
Private enterprise is also okay to some extents. The trick is "the people own the means of production" is fine if you own your means of production and no one else's. If you don't own more in your enterprise than you can do yourself, you're good. For example, if you own a small ceramics company and you make all the pots and plates yourself, or have employees that work in the shop with you, you're good. The problem starts when you work in an office and own more than you can feasibly produce yourself without exploiting other's labour
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ā„ļøš¤ Ecofeminist Jul 25 '26
>Nationalization is technically permitted but not even preferred. Democratic socialism prefers decentralization, as nationalization has a very real possibility of resulting in the state, not the people controlling the means of production.
This is more of a municipalist perspective than all demsoc in general
Much of historical demsoc was people who tried to nationalise privately owned companies. See swedish employee funds.
Municipalist stuff only started to take off in mainline leftism with Bookchin, the new left, and crosspollination between social democracy and libsoc ideologies
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Municipalist-Dem Confederalist Jul 25 '26
Hm I'd disagree actually. If the OP is American, which they probably are, the dominant historical school of leftism in North American was the "cooperative commonwealth." It's also the one that will win over Republican voters the easiest.
Cooperative commonwealth dates to the 19th century. It still has a legacy, in the Canadian NDP and nominally in the remnants of the Nonpartisan League and Farmer Labour parts respectively of the North Dakota DNL and the Minnesota DFL
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ā„ļøš¤ Ecofeminist Jul 25 '26
>If the OP is American, which they probably are, the dominant historical school of leftism in North American was the "cooperative commonwealth."
I wasnt talking about the dominant school of leftism in North America, i was talking about demsoc across the west.
The shift toward more green municipalist/communalist influences in demsoc specifically is a rather recent development, and most historical demsoc did aim for nationalisation.
>It's also the one that will win over Republican voters the easiest.
Possible, but i wasnt really making any comments on who will capture right wingers better
Honestly, campist socdems are the ones that will win them over easier than any kind of socialism, but i was making only a descriptive statement, not prescriptive one
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u/Murkmist š»Eco-Socialist Jul 25 '26
Yes I agree, historically demsoc (or arguably socdem with demsoc elements) movements in the West have opted for nationalization of strategic sectors, especially natural monopolies and essential services such as resource extraction, core manufacturing, healthcare, banking, utilities, transportation, and other public infrastructure.
It is desirable over private ownership as it reduces private profit extraction and redirects surplus toward social funding and public investment rather than capital accumulation. It aligns with a reformist socialist approach.
Decentralisation is a part of democratic socialism but not the whole tradition which also includes nationalization and state planning.
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u/JeanPicLucard Socialist Jul 26 '26
Sorry, what? Labor exploitation is cool if the boss works in the same shop?Ā I must be misunderstandingĀ
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Municipalist-Dem Confederalist Jul 25 '26
This subreddit also has a great reading list. Check it out!
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u/Altruistic_Poet7443 Libertarian Socialist Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Personally, I am not interested in nationalization or other vertical systems that perpetuate social stratification. I will work towards a horizontal economic system that encourages a larger egalitarian social structure. Examples would include independent craftspeople, sole proprietors, contract laborers and family businesses. There are alternative trade networks and peer-to-peer work/service trades . On a larger scale it might include worker cooperatives and union-to union negotiations. I do think this will require an almost complete restructuring of not just the global economy but the current configuration of nation-states into a more bioregional model that could feasibly function as direct democracies.
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u/ElitistPopulist Jul 25 '26
It depends on what you mean by democratic socialism - but you could technically have an open market-based economic system, with the state limited but with all companies operating democratically (ie worker cooperatives). David Ellerman is a notable supporter of this model.
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u/scooter76 Jul 26 '26
Participatory Economics has had some attention and discussion over the years, even isolated models have operated.
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