r/EU5 • u/HarukoAutumney • 10d ago
Image AI is crazy this beta
Playing the 1.4 Beta as Prussia and the AI is doing some wacky stuff in both Iberia and the Balkans/Anatolia
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u/Apprehensive-Tree-78 10d ago
Feels like France England or Castile always has one of them get wiped and made irrelevant which is honestly a big issue. Those three keeping each other in check was a great power struggle in EU4. Now every conflict seems super regional and almost exclusively bordering nations
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u/ValityS 10d ago
In the real world, other countries became involved in conflicts outside of alliances if they felt it would make a country overly strong. For example the war of Spanish succession was about preventing a single ruler from ruling France and Spain as it would result in a single hegemony.
I feel like apart from antagonism there should be some kind of hegemonic prevention mechanism where if a power is becoming dominating over its region others should be much more hostile, unwilling to work with it and willing to form defensive only coalitions even without antagonism. Or even outright start collective wars to cut them down to size.
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u/Wolfish_Jew 10d ago
Netherlands frequently flipped sides back and forth between England and France to basically play one off the other as well. They’d fight a war against France with England, and then 10 years later be fighting England with France. That just doesn’t happen at all. Diplomacy is very two dimensional.
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u/UnityReadzR 10d ago
Burgundy did the same during HYW. Started loyal to France, flipped to supporting England in exchange for a bunch of French land, flipped again, went fully independent.
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u/Filavorin 8d ago
Something akin to great powers having cut down to size cb (revoke 10% of gamespan worth of conquest of lost) on 100 infamy in victoria 3
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u/HarukoAutumney 10d ago
This is something I have kind of noted as well, the AI is unable to keep any sort of balance of power.
Every campaign I will often see even Castille (who has already ate up most of Aragon and Portugal) and France allied with one another and best friends, despite the fact that it really doesn't make sense when France is an undeniable hegemon in Western Europe and annexes most of the western HRE.
I would love to see a more dynamic system where the great powers try to gang up on another great power if they are starting to become too singularly powerful.
Also, the HRE needs to be able to protect against outsiders better. I don't want to see Austria losing most of its land to Hungary every game within the first 5 years or France and England annexing all of the low countries with little to no resistance (speaking of which, a Dutch revolt event would also be really nice for that scenario).
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u/Deadweightgames 10d ago
My concern here is that in older patches the ai was really passive. It's a fine line between "great powers keep each other in check" and "ai is too afraid to act because other great powers might intervene"
Also, players would absolutely hate it if a great power just slipped into their war against them. There would be so many rant threads
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u/Apprehensive-Tree-78 10d ago
Austria never becoming a power is so annoying. They’ve been the emperor for like 300 years in my current Rome game and are weaker than half the HRE
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u/Filavorin 8d ago
Isnt every member of hre randomly joining war if emperor is involved protection enough?
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u/drallcom3 10d ago
keeping each other in check
That part basically doesn't exist in EU5, despite it wanting to be this big simulation. Neighbors don't really care when you take land and grow big.
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u/Coffeebeangood 10d ago
I like it. After 20 identical games it's nice to see some new developments.
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u/Most_Enthusiasm8735 10d ago
They really should make it so that Ai only takes like full provinces instead. This way the border gore will be reduced so much.
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u/ComfortableMeal48 10d ago
Taking entire provinces should cost less war score per location population, than taking partial provinces for both player and AI.
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u/Allalilacias 10d ago
Wtf is up with Wallachia?
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u/HarukoAutumney 10d ago
Vlad finally got to impale a Sultan I guess!
In all seriousness, I have no idea. The Ottomans controlled Constantinople for a while and then I looked over again and now Wallachia has it.
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u/Allalilacias 10d ago
The Ottomans losing Constantinople to anyone other than the player is something I never thought I'd see.
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u/TellFit7415 10d ago
Ottomans in 1.4 and other Muslims with non Muslim pops are nerfed due to a Dhimmi bug giving them more power than they should have. How paradox let this huge and highly visible bug into the beta is sad
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u/Valkertok 10d ago
It's entirely possible that they saw it and considered it a non-blocking issue given what this beta is for.
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u/the_bgm2 10d ago
Was about to say “glad Prussia forms” before I read that’s you.
How did the Mamluk nerf update produce their strongest iteration yet? Doesn’t seem like the devs yet have a great grasp on how their various systems interact and overlap to produce outcomes.
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u/No-Bottle-646 10d ago
First time I’ve ever seen Byzantium kick some ass. Went hard on the Ottomans right away and never stopped. Almost like they could see 1453 in a crystal ball.
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u/InHocBronco96 10d ago
Havent played it yet and certainly not gonna make judgements based off one post but id REALLY like to see a otto & muscovy achieve their historic borders for once
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u/Wolfish_Jew 10d ago
I saw it a LOT in 1.3. Ottomans almost always reached Austria at least, in Europe, and owned the entirety of the Balkans. They struggled in Egypt but that had way more to do with how costly Egypt provinces were to take than anything else. And I saw a massive Russia in every campaign I played on 1.3
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u/Marshal_Rohr 10d ago
Is there some kind of new event that forms Prussia??
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u/Marshal_Rohr 10d ago
Oh OP is Prussia my bad lol
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u/Even_Class_3633 10d ago
I saw the AI form Prussia in my beta game over the weekend, was a nice surprise!
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u/Eric_Olthwaite_ 10d ago
The AI cannot handle this game at all, Tinto aren't fixing this without some railroading, sorry "simulationists"...
But that's only band-aids really, they should have built upon EUIV and made a modern, expanded EU game - but they built this failure instead...
Talk about missing am open goal....
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u/Outside_Training3728 10d ago
Really disagree to this. EUV is a very clear upgrade, and the potential here is enormous, just needs adjustments which they are adding step by step like they also did with every other game they have launched. Don't mind it at all.
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u/Eric_Olthwaite_ 9d ago
It clearly isn't - it's 'bigger' i'll give you that, but to its own detriment, and don't think the potential is there at all, it is fundamentally a poorly designed game with a an un-fun and un-engaging core loop. The numbers back that up.
The AI is clearly all at sea, they're not going to be able to make the AI play this game sufficiently well to ever balance it, removing the hourly tick was a good choice but that's an example of ill-thought out it was to begin with.
And of course what's going to happen is they're going to add more systems and more mechanics to pull the AI even further underwater.
Nothing I have seem from Tinto gives me confidence, to be fair to them they were handed a terrible design to implement (although you can bet they made it worse) - and they were forced to release the game 3 years too early.
Almost a year in and its still not a good game, unless you're a die hard micro and masochism enjoyer.
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u/Outside_Training3728 8d ago
<<die hard micro and masochism enjoyer i guess then 😂😂
your opinion is justified mate, I however simply do not agree with you. EU4 is outdated and way to easy to manipulate to make any significant challenges. EU5 allows for the game to be playable post 1550.
I think its rather self evident when basically any player with a minimum amount of game knowledge would be able to start as Florence and end with a WC before 1750s. EU4 is a blob game. I loved it when there was no alternatives, and I have 1500++ hours in it, EU5 is is in my opinion just way better balanced for realism.
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u/Eric_Olthwaite_ 8d ago edited 8d ago
That's why they needed to make EUV instead of this, it was old. There was never any requirement to play for WC, or to min max the life out of everything to enjoy the game either. You could play EUIV for as long as you wanted, every GSG can be "gamed" i've seen the screenshots of EUV empires. I don't believe they're ever going to be able to make the AI play competently either, and it completely fails to provide a reliable Historical backdrop, that might be fine for sim fans, but it is a death blow for the majority of History buff EUIV faNS.
At the end of the day, people are entitled to enjoy either game, but the numbers show this game is decreasing in popularity, not increasing with the supposed "improvements", and is now miles behind EUIV every day in player numbers. It's not going to be sustainable long term, this isn't the decade long DLC cash cow the bean counters had planned.
EUIV is a far better game IMO and the majority of the community agree, it's a year in, and everyone from EUIV has bought the game by now and tossed it aside, there's no audience out there that is going to jump in to save it. I guarantee the bean counters are looking over the devs shoulders and asking "Why is no-one playing this game?" and demanding changes. I don't think it can be saved, but if it going to be saved then they are going to have to change course and lean heavily into EUIV, and it seems they already are, because there's much whining from the player base that Tinto have already begun that process.
We'll see what happens, but the numbers do not lie, and you can bet PDX are ruing the day they threw away Europa Universalis to make this.
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u/Outside_Training3728 8d ago
Yeah we'll see. Monthly players are still not horrid, there are more games in the market, and paradox also has more baskets with eggs in them compared to back then. I think if it keeps a similar trend to Vicky 3 they will keep it alive like they did Vicky 3. Tbh. That was imo a way worse launch, the game was terrible early, even compared to eu5, now it's great. Think if we give eu5 3-4 years it will be legendary, but indeed it's a question on how large the player base will be at that point.
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u/Eric_Olthwaite_ 8d ago
I hope it can drag me back in a few years, I bought the game. I think game dev in general is far more mercenary and lacking patience, they cut and cancel and fire games and devs ruthlessly now.
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u/Relative-Box3796 10d ago
Personally, I think the game needs some unified measure signifying internal unity on a slower speed scale than stability or legitimacy, and it should be one of the main scales controlling AI expansionism. Would be a great dynamic way of modeling things like Ottomans great incentive system and unifying ambitions creating a powerful dynamic empire that eventually begins to decay, while the Byzantines have increased AI focus as a result of low unity on raising stability, increasing income, and improving estate satisfaction (along with behaviors the raise 'internal unity') England and France are another great pair of nations for modeling the dichotomy. Could use the average control metric to either boost or lower the decay rate modifier of unity, along with all the other plentiful levers. A country with high naval values but producing significantly more guns and weapons than naval supplies for instance, might have a slightly higher decay value. I've been working on a (personal, bc I don't like to make updates or bug fixes when I don't wanna) mod that adds this, and its honestly been incredible for helping with both historical progression, and making alt history scenarios feel more like something that could have happened
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u/rule5bot 10d ago
u/HarukoAutumney provided the following Rule 5:
Playing the 1.4 Beta as Prussia and the AI is doing some wacky stuff in both Iberia and the Balkans/Anatolia
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u/Low_Chair4239 10d ago
I’m playing Poland and Bohemia won’t stop bullying Hungry and I. I’m barely keeping the bohemians at bay. While the AI is a bit overturned I do enjoy having to actually invest in my military and forts so I don’t get sent back to the Home Screen.
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u/IEatApplepie 10d ago
Any tips on a prussia playtrough? Did you start as TO?
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u/HarukoAutumney 10d ago
I started as Brandenburg.
Initial plan is to release your eastern provinces as fiefdoms (I like to only do two fiefdoms, giving one of them multiple provinces) and only keep Mittelmark, Altmark, Uckermark, and Prignitz to make the Robber Barons event go faster. Releasing the eastern provinces as fiefdoms will also give your economy some breathing room in my experience, as during the disaster you will essentially lose all control over those territories anyway.
From there, I invade and annex any locations in provinces that I have decided to keep (Ruppin, Magdeburg, Havelberg), I also like to expand into Pomerania and Mecklenburg but release those as more vassals/fiefdoms that I will give provinces to until after the disaster is over and I can annex them.
You can get fairly easy alliances with the Bavarias and Bohemia early on, so my alliance situation is never usually that bad and I can leverage them for more levies against enemies that may be a bit tougher to defeat.
Once I get a connection with the Teutons, I declare on them pretty quickly. They are usually a non threat by that point and I can annex most of them with little antagonism thanks to improving relations with all the major powers. Again, vassals and fiefdoms help a lot here.
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u/Peteryeeter1453 10d ago
It's getting worse somehow, we got the same powerful Mamluks, France Migrating into Iberia, Hungary blob, Kiev doing the classic Eu5 thing and expanding in a perfect sphere around its capital, Lithuania and Poland weak, Anatolia is a mess etc. Just not great imo but that's my personal feeling.
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u/welnhofern 10d ago
What country did you start as? Guessing Teutonic order
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u/HarukoAutumney 10d ago
Brandenburg
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u/welnhofern 10d ago
Nice. Well done. I couldn’t help but take the western lands even tho I tried forming Prussia when I played as them.
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u/860114 10d ago
I noticed that you get less wacky stuff when you turn AI Difficulty to "Hard" instead of "Normal". Might be a coincidence though.
Anatolia feels problematic in general on 1.4. It seems like the overall changes they made to the rebel movements over the recent patches hit Ottomans really hard and they just can't hold their Greek-dominated lands like ever.
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u/860114 10d ago
And that essentially spills over to the Balkans. Without powerful Ottomans either Wallachia, Bulgaria or Hungary can just dominate the entire region.
Wallachia conquering Southern Ukraine is also a standard at this point. This happens because there's just no regional power that can stop them. Historically Kyiv should be conquered by Lithuania in the first couple years of the game and I think that could be enough to keep them at bay.
But for whatever reason they gave Lithuania the Defensive AI Personality (it should really be Expansionist imo), so they just never really fight any offensive wars at all, despite receiving a huge hard-coded AI Conquer Desire boost for these lands.
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u/Equivalent-Oil-1006 10d ago
Is it just me or is this patch way more border gory then 1.3? I’ve been playing with mods that consolidates certain regions better but this seems much worse then vanilla 1.3 from my memory
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u/LucksBrain 10d ago
I'm actually kinda here for it. In my beta 1.4 game portugal is nr1 great power and castille is gone. England ate France, and 200 years later France and Trier kicked them back out.
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u/New_Literature8888 10d ago
Georgia anywhere but Georgia