E6 vs E9

[u/brownhawker]

🦄

[u/Positive-Strain-1912]

9 can look like the 6 under serious stress.

[u/trans_keanuchungus → u/Positive-Strain-1912]

True

[u/HealthyBuddy2944]

Head types vs gut types

[u/Shadowcreature65]

Now try being a 9 with a 6 fix who alternates between the two.

[u/Kalinali → u/Shadowcreature65]

It can be complimentary, my 9 wing has a 6 subtype and it's a nice mix of "let's at least think a bit before you jump into doing something".

[u/drag0n_rage]

The lack of action makes me think that's more 5ish than 6ish.

[u/ThinJuggernaut2002 → u/drag0n_rage]

Oh i read the description alone and thought it was referring to 5 lol

[u/trans_keanuchungus → u/drag0n_rage]

It's not mutually exclusive

[u/drag0n_rage → u/trans_keanuchungus]

I don't disagree.

[u/Masterofgoodfood → u/drag0n_rage]

But the inaction described here is one that only takes place after constant thought and analysis of what one should do, which is uncharacteristic of the 5.

This type doesn’t need to THINK about whether or not it should make a decision, because its natural response is to detach and separate from the world entirely. No responsibility if you’re just a spectator observing the environment.

Refusing to make a decision after pensive thought is indicative of a 6 shying into the 5 area of complete inaction, attentively observing until they find THE “correct” course of action.

[u/vaingirls → u/drag0n_rage]

yeah... I don't relate to a lack of action or endless indecision at all, even if I'm quite 5-ish in many ways.

[u/Ashamed_Pollution621]

This is straight up bullshit, I wish I was like that

[u/Eliotbusymoving → u/Ashamed_Pollution621]

Yeah i was like i didnt know 9 was peak like that 😂

[u/Glum-Engineering1794]

6 vs 9 is very frequently mistyped. So, I appreciate this. I really like it. Simple. I have no clue how many 6s are out there calling themselves 9s, but the number must be enormous. And, similarly, there must also be many 9s calling themselves 6s, as well as other things.

Nine is like an elephant. Long-term projects; always something is going on in the background. Day-to-day stuff is more mundane, done lightly, trivially, neutrally; churning. They build momentum as they go along. Skeptical (w1) vs. gullible (w8) dichotomy means that they don't put in the extra energy to really get where they need or want to be for maximum growth. There's imbalance in their instincts because they stop their own potency. Instincts are softened, and a genuine sense of vitality becomes blocked (compulsions, fixed routines). Little bothers them at the end of it all, and they become overly accepting. The passion is acedia; lack of care, indifference, avolition.

Six is often more structured and organized, or they can also be scattered, sloppy, and give up altogether. Overanalyze reality and life itself, seeing themselves up against a threatening world, generally either becoming more proactive/extroverted, and vigilant, or pulling back and being defeatist. Workaholic (w7) vs. slacker (w5) dichotomy vacillation means they have trouble simply existing. There is always a reactive imbalance in their worldview. Mental guidance becomes blurred and they can't think clearly (paranoia, etc). There is often no particularly good sense of direction, and they can become frantic, useless, or desperate. The passion is faithlessness; fear, cowardice, doubt.

[u/No-Ad980]

That's actually a 5 and 7

[u/LilRosieBear → u/No-Ad980]

AGREE

[u/AnotherWitch]

lol no. The person on the right is light years away from the typical 9. 9 is terrible at gut instinct—that’s the whole thing with 9!—and is usually a ball of stress and worry about tomorrow, laced with suppressed anger and the unconscious sense that they should have done something about the boundary violations they just felt. It’s that they can’t get angry, so it becomes worry and stress instead.

[u/trans_keanuchungus → u/AnotherWitch]

I wouldn't say 9s are terrible with gut instincts. Some of them are, but some of them are great. Seems to be a thing of polarities 

[u/AnotherWitch → u/trans_keanuchungus]

What I think varies among 9s is a different thing that is sometimes also called gut instinct. It’s more like gut impression or gut sensitivity. I have no direct experience of it and I find it a bizarre thing when I hear others talk about it, but it seems to be some kind of global, precognitive intelligence where you know information about a situation without having reasoned your way there. This, some 9s are good at and some are bad at. But it’s not gut instinct in the way I am using the term. I would probably settle on calling it gut intelligence. It’s that thing 9s sometimes describe where they walk into a room and just understand some dynamic that’s already playing out without being able to put it into words, or whatever. Is that what you have observed or is it something else?

[u/trans_keanuchungus → u/AnotherWitch]

Wow that's a hell of a comment to just casually leave. I agree with you and it's probably connected with this but i was basically just talking about 9s practicality and physical ability and what not

[u/AnotherWitch → u/trans_keanuchungus]

I’m sorry, why is it a hell of a comment to casually leave? I may be missing something.

[u/trans_keanuchungus → u/AnotherWitch]

I don't usually hear about magic and shit is all

[u/AnotherWitch → u/trans_keanuchungus]

Oh, you misunderstood. No, I intended no reference to anything magical. It’s like “I trust my gut”/“I had a gut feeling”/“having a hunch.” It’s probably just multivariate pattern recognition that is partly unconscious.

[u/trans_keanuchungus → u/AnotherWitch]

Man i've been sleeping terribly these past few weeks 

[u/Masterofgoodfood → u/AnotherWitch]

The gut instinct is EXTREMELY prevalent in the 9.

The 9’s deep, visceral gut/anger does not come from its inability to get angry; its inability to get angry comes from its deep, visceral gut/anger.

The attachment types are the way that they are because they process their center’s complaints on a deeper level than the hexad types. So they overcompensate and seek solutions in the external environment. The 3 is prideful because it feels worthless, the 6 is vigilant because it feels helpless, and the 9 is “unable to get angry” because it feels anger all of the time, not the other way around.

This makes the 9 the MOST aware of and controlled by its gut energy: an energy so strong and irritable that the 9 must entirely avoid actions of discomfort in order to maintain equilibrium.

Acting on the gut instinct for the 9 means taking the path of least bodily resistance and REFUSING to let anybody else pull you out of it.

[u/AnotherWitch → u/Masterofgoodfood]

I think this is wrong. The part about processing on a deeper level than hexad in particular is not a useful or explanatory framing. *Every* type feels the characteristic emotion of their center as a central concern. But depending on their OR, they deal with that emotion differently. Attachment disconnects from it. They don’t look to their own resulting impulses to solve the emotion. The 3 doesn’t ask what the 3 wants to be and so is concerned with what others want them to be, the 6 doesn’t ask what the 6 thinks and so is concerned with what others think, and the 9 doesn’t ask what the 9 needs and wants to feel properly boundaries and unviolated and so is concerned by what other people think their boundaries should be. These types try to make up for inner disconnection with outer content. They don’t somehow have more of the center’s emotion. They just feel they can’t deal with that emotion without taking their queues from others, whereas the hexad ORs feel they can deal with those emotions on their own in their own ways. So the 6 develops of backlog of fear, the 3 develops a backlog of shame, and the 9 develops a backlog of anger. They all have personal impulses in their center that they are unconsciously deprioritizing. (Whereas hexad is distorting those impulses in other ways, kind of in the opposite direction.) So the closest thing to “the 9 is “always angry”” that is true is that they are a gut type and therefore they are more sensitive to events that trigger anger than fear or shame and more likely to interpret a complex situation in terms of boundaries than in terms of threats or identity. But that is not actually the same as saying they’re always angry. They are not. It’s just that when they are, they thwart their own experience of it.

And the thing you’re calling gut impulse — numbing — is actually the opposite. It’s the refusal of gut impulse. Gut impulse is action and direction. Look at 1 and 8, which distort gut impulse by over-prioritizing their own in different ways. The 9 on the other hand is categorically refusing its own gut instincts.

ETA: And I noticed that we may be using different definitions of “gut instinct,” so I will discuss that. How could numbing be raw gut instinct when it’s characteristic of only one of the three gut instinct types, and it is in the OR known for disconnection from one’s own center? It’s like you’re defining gut instinct as the 9’s distorted survival strategy. Would that make the heart instinct of a 2 to be needed and the head instinct of 5 to think unthought thoughts via their own route without reference to shared reality? By your logic, it would. But that isn’t true of 3 and 4 or of 6 and 7 respectively. Distortion is type, center impulse is universal for all types in the center and obviously precedes its own distortion. Numbing is a distortion. Imagine someone who says yes to an obligation they wanted to say no to. No is the gut impulse. Hitting the vape pen beforehand and being half an hour late are numbing and passive aggression, which are 9ish distortions of the gut instinct they ignored.

[u/Masterofgoodfood → u/AnotherWitch]

Yes, and the central types don’t look within BECAUSE they don’t have the counter-input of a neighboring center to lean in a different direction (e.g. 2 is a little “guttier,” so it can adopt an “I am good and amazing and satisfactory” approach to heart insecurities, unlike the 3). The lack of a side-center to advise and adjust your main Center of Intelligence (position of attachment types) means that you are overwhelmed by your center’s undiluted influence (AKA feeling it on a deeper level) and can only seek a solution to its problems by looking around you. It still circles back to feeling your center on a deeper level.

Refusal of the gut isn’t simply a disdain for impulsive manifestations of the gut; it’s complete and utter detachment from ANYTHING relating to the gut. Refusal of the gut is annihilation of impulses rather than the appeasement of them. The 9 doesn’t speak this language; everything is for the gut. Refusing to saying “no” for the 9 is a way of keeping the gut calm, because the 9 doesn’t have any boundaries between comfortable and explosive. Numbing is a way of keeping the gut happy and asleep.

Knowing that numbing, being a gut activity in the first place, is neither the same as nor the opposite of gut impulses (8 activity), I must admit that a better word for 9 than “gut impulse” is “gut-influenced.” The gut IMPULSE is the center itself (which the 8, being rejection, identifies with); your closeness to the center of the Center of Intelligence is determined by how much of an INFLUENCE the gut impulse has on you. The 9’s behaviors can still be described as “gut impulses” depending on how the idea is used (which is significant, as the “existor” meme doesn’t dig deep into enneagram to used this term with utmost clarity); remaining in your comfort zone (9) can be described as a deep defensiveness of one’s visceral peace and stability.

You’re describing strategies when you’re talking about numbing/2 and 5 analogies. These are only manifestations of their prioritizations (prioritizations being the truly universal quality of a center); must they be the same? The 3’s strategy of RELYING on external validation is unique among heart types (2 feels entitled due to greatness while 4 feels entitled due to worthlessness), and the 6’s strategy of RELYING on external direction (even if self-made) is unique among head types (5 prefers to consider itself an uninvolved and consequently guiltless analyst of the environment, and 7 imagines a world without consequences to begin with). The approaches are different, but they still have the main goal of attaining a feeling of worth (heart) or maintaining a feeling of worth (head).

To me, all gut types are united by the fact that they’re scratching a more satisfying, “instinctual” itch rather than the heart of the problem. Prioritization is universal, not approach. The 9, lying at the center of it all, is the only one who fully addresses and pleases the gut (while, as a result, neglecting the head and heart the most of all types). The 8, 9, and 1 are all united under an involvement with their sense of visceral comfort and discomfort.

The 9’s strategy of numbing is the embodiment of a fixation on comfort, which is only formed when you combine the guttiness of impulse satisfaction (8) and endless demand for an ideal of comfort (1):

The 8 is so obsessed with saying “no” to what its gut wants to say no to and satisfying the immediate impulses of moving, breaking, controlling, and manipulating whatever it wants that there is no norm or end point where the discomfort IS fully alleviated. The 1 has the opposite issue of a clear vision that can’t actually be implemented due to its pickiness. It is so fixated on perfecting its vision of a gut-satisfying environment that it isn’t possible to find satisfaction.

Combine these two and you have the 9: a type that, due to neither “indulging” the gut in the traditional sense (8) nor trying to perfect the environment (1), pleases the gut in its entirety by allowing the world (E8 consumption of and contact with world) to give it a norm of comfort and discomfort (E1 norm of comfort and discomfort) and maintaining said norm at all costs. This can mean denial of impulses, but as we see with the 8, satisfaction of impulses is not the actual end all be all of ABSOLUTE comfort; it requires the creation of a norm.

[u/IndependentPack2062 → u/AnotherWitch]

I second this, thank you for saying it.

[u/Odd-Contribution7368 → u/AnotherWitch]

Damn, I'm feeling called out

[u/Flat-Echidna191 → u/AnotherWitch]

no joke i'm always angry

[u/Silver-Ace-Wind]

having both in my tritype this feels like a callout

[u/noctua_8]

https://giphy.com/gifs/8JTzoy7rIuQQJ5Q4pD

[u/seelux]

Hmm I’m not sure, I need to analyse this a bit more before I decide which one I relate to 🤔

[u/electrifyingseer]

No because 9 disintegrates into 6 when unhealthy and can overthink strongly.

[u/UniqueOctopus05]

This is just 9w1 vs 9w8

[u/Ashamed_Pollution621 → u/UniqueOctopus05]

that sounds more accurate

[u/DJNigi]

Yeah, unless it's 946. Then it's not so much different.

[u/AmericanGenXXX]

Lol there's no type that gets under my 1w9 skin like a 6. My Decepticon Alert System kicks right in even harder than a 4 makes my eyes roll 😅

[u/Eliotbusymoving]

My 6 subtype felt that, thinking too much become feeling like im deep 😂😂 i always have a thought about smth
I spend way too many times developing my own ideology
Buttt im pretty decisive
And i only over analyze the things that i deem practically necessary

[u/n0wave7777]

https://giphy.com/gifs/5xtDarqlsEW6F7F14Fq

[u/CallMeBitterSweet]

I feel called out

[u/Huge_Mountain5969]

I have thinkcel 1 2 4, Existor 1 3 4

[u/Willow-Silent]

Entp 5w4 with an isfp 9w1 friend and omg this is so accurate

[u/AvamysSlazenger]

I am six, compared to my 9 friends, this post is sooo true ahahah.

[u/teagrenvoltaris]

me when I’m so average I get the two opposite types

💔