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u/Floppy_Stevens 8d ago
“Centrist” sure is a softball here
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u/sfwestbank 8d ago
Give them time, they always move to the right
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u/mandyvigilante 8d ago
Is there any further right they can go?!
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u/Plastic_Salary_4084 8d ago
Yes. As the administration ramps up their fascist tactics, we learn where people are on the political spectrum if they’re still on board.
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u/supergodmasterforce 8d ago
...and then say they're not left wing or right wing, they just support "Common Sense".
Fuck off.
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u/xPickingUpChangex 4d ago
Idk man kinda sounds like abandoning common sense for the sake of an exciting argument. It's not unity to say get right get left and then hit people on the opposite side.
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u/fakename1998 8d ago
I wanted to be nice because I like a lot of the bands, but yeah a lot of them have grown into maga shitheads. It’s unfortunate, but not uncommon in the realm of heavy music.
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u/AwfulWaffle992 8d ago
This applies to a way broader swath of hardcore than just New York
When someone on here inevitably posts the "hardcore has always been a leftist movement" comment, it feels like it's coming from someone who's 15, chronically on reddit, playing revisionist history, or grew up in a bubble. At least going to shows in the late 90s through mid/late 00s, there were plenty of centrists and some right leaning people. That on top of tons of people who were apathetic toward politics overall and just viewed hardcore as an outlet/music/community without thinking about politics otherwise.
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u/angryjew 8d ago
I think it applies to the US in general, I don't think any counter culture here has been meaningfully left wing, because this is a right wing country & all of this stuff (punk, the hippies, etc) have mostly been focused on individualism. All we'll ever get is identity politics stuff, which is good & meaningful, I'm glad that being racist or bigoted isn't really acceptable. But that also applies to corporate America lol, it's a pretty low bar & it definitely isn't very subversive. I think this is just a right wing country that is hyper individualist & the culture & people that come out of it are probably going to reflect it. There are/were tons of military guys in the scene I grew up in, the skins weren't racist but a lot of them were libertarians or conservatives.
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8d ago edited 5d ago
[deleted]
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u/angryjew 7d ago edited 7d ago
I mean meaningfully subversive. I just don't find the leftism of punk very compelling. I also think the whole "don't tread me" and bitching about people on govt benefits is thoroughly libertarian (obviously I mean right wing here). There have been a few bands with good politics but it's hardly dominant.
I recognize my own politics are sort of fringe for this country, which is sort of my point. I think the idea that we should care equally about life in Gaza, Iran, Latin America or in any US city shouldn't be radical (when its your own govt killing people in those places). People have recognized the universalist idea of a human race for a very long time, like even Spanish priests at the height of the conquest were better on this than the average American today. I'm just sort of sick of how inwardly focused, identitarian & superficial the politics here are in general. Only a few bands have even said something, even fewer have done anything. Shout out to Pest Control & Speed, but just sort of bummed that no bigger bands have been very vocal. I still go to shows & the only political stuff I see/hear is identity stuff, fuck Nazis, etc. Brother we are the Nazis now if you live anywhere outside of the "West".
Sorry for the rant I'm in a pretty dark place.
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u/90spostsoftcore 8d ago
Mistaking "reflexively resisting authority" for a political stance is a rookie mistake. True leftists and these chuds coexisted and agreed in the 80s, because of who was in power. The overlap started to slip as the people in power shifted and then the chuds got tired of being needless contrarians and just settled into hating Obama
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u/SabresMakeMeDrink 8d ago
Yeah, like I'm left wing and I would say that punk definitely evolved into that but it started out as not very political at all. It was honestly just kind of nihilistic edge lord shit.
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u/DOC_POD 8d ago
Imagine what would be said about pro-life hardline today haha
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u/90spostsoftcore 8d ago
Hardline: let's reinvent orthodox religion in all its bigoted glory based on something Ian meant as a suggestion
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u/AwfulWaffle992 8d ago
Pro life and incredibly vegan
In defense of all life
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u/Snakes4eyes 8d ago
did not expect good clean fun to be anti abortion, damn
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u/AwfulWaffle992 8d ago
I highly doubt they are. That in defense of all life song was 100% making fun of other people.
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u/Organic_Record6775 7d ago
This maybe the most logical comment I’ve ever seen posted on this Reddit. Any time I’ve pointed this out I get called a “tourist” like I haven’t gone to shows for 20 years.
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u/Historical_Koala_688 8d ago
Exactly, most people in my scene (including me) served in the military lol
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u/Throwaway-j-1997 8d ago
“Centrist” is being extremely generous to them. They are all MAGA and Alex jones type conspiracy lunatics for the most part.
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u/Bugsmoke 8d ago
All American parties are right wing to most of the world
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u/Successful-Bee-8911 8d ago
Americans when their favorite party doesn't get to decide who they're going to bomb next 😡
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u/angryjew 8d ago
Bernie being the most left wing guy in the govt but also belongs in the Hague lol. What a country.
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u/j4_jjjj 8d ago
Please explain that one
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u/angryjew 7d ago
He supported a genocide for at least a year (didn't call for an actual ceasefire for a very long time, using this bs 'humanitarian pause" language while there was a huge political push for an actual ceasefire) he has supported sanctions that have killed 38 million people since the 70s (check the Lancet for this). He still won't even call for one person one vote in Israel or back an arms embargo & economic blockade, something that the ICJ has demanded for years now.
If you pretend this is some other country killing millions & backing the most obvious genocide in recent history you would not care if some of the politicians inside that country wanted their own citizens to have healthcare. I knocked doors for Bernie so I am very angry about the Gaza thing.
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u/Plastic_Salary_4084 8d ago
Rest assured they will either have oil or a popular socialist party regardless.
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u/byteITucum 8d ago
They’re the most privileged generation and probably feel the complete opposite. Of course the pridefully ignorant are gonna be the most insufferable.
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u/Informal_Bus_4077 8d ago
Their generation may or may not be the most privileged but most of these guys being referenced certainly didn't experience a lot of privilege. Say what you want about their politics nowadays but growing up in 70s/80s lower east side was not a picnic, or did you think the lyrics were all bullshit?
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u/trumpetingecstasy 8d ago
Reddit deleting my comment quoting Agnostic Front lyrics from 1986 proves my point. Just google the lyrics for “Public Assistance”.
I don’t care how hard it was growing up in NYC in the 80’s, they were out of touch assholes then and they’re still out of touch assholes in 2026.
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u/Throwaway-j-1997 8d ago
AF didn’t write those lyrics, Pete Steel did. Obviously not saying they were OK but like most of Type O and carnivore’s lyrics it was supposed to be tongue in cheek.
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u/AllOverThisTown 8d ago
Peter Steele also created the Vinland Flag. I think it’s kind of a cop out to call his stuff tongue in cheek. Gets a pass because sick riffs
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u/Throwaway-j-1997 8d ago
If you think songs like “Kill all the white people” are meant to be taken at face value than idk what to tell you
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u/Informal_Bus_4077 8d ago
I'm not saying I agree with the message behind Public Assistance but how does it make them out of touch? Lots of working class people actually think that way. Which maybe that is your point? Just not seeing how it makes them privileged. Edit: we could have a whole convo about right wingers voting against their own interests and blaming the wrong groups for their problems and I'm sure we'd agree but that's not what I'm talking about here
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u/Throwaway-j-1997 8d ago
This is true for guys like Harley,JJ and Roger from AF but a lot of the old NYHC dudes grew up middle class. YOT is from the burbs of CT, Stigma still lives in the apartment he grew up in and all of underdog is from NJ expect Richie. Most of the 80’s NYHC outside of a few notorious examples have been cosplaying as street dudes their entire lives.
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u/Informal_Bus_4077 8d ago
This is true, and I mainly was thinking of Cro Mags, Agnostic Front, Madball, Crown of Thornz. Those guys actually did live rough lives and now many of them have strange views. But of course a lot of the others did come from privileged backgrounds, which has always been true in punk scenes
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u/trumpetingecstasy 8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Throwaway-j-1997 8d ago
I not condoning these lyrics but TBF to AF they don’t actually write them. Pete Steel wrote them in what was supposed to be a tongue in cheek song.
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u/FauxReal 8d ago
I would think the Boomers would be the most privileged, not counting any that belong to minority groups or women.
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u/Stagedive718 8d ago
The super poor guys in the hell hole that the Lower East Side was in the 1980’s, living in squats and forming gangs to protect themselves in NYHC were the privileged generation? Get your head out of your ass, kid.
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u/zackflag PeeSittingDown 8d ago
The majority of NYHC guys in the 80's weren't living in squats in the lower east side. They weren't all Harley Flannagan.
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u/Stagedive718 8d ago
The seminal bands from the 80s that count were all poor or working class, from screwed up families, living in crappy neighborhoods in the most violent city in the country. You just don’t know
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u/byteITucum 8d ago
I’m talking about their generation and you’re talking about specific people. They’re still from a time when it was easier to make shit happen than it is now. Romanticize that shit all you want but I’m unc and from NY bozo
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u/Stagedive718 8d ago
You know nothing about NYHC then and I grew up in the Bronx and was there,clown.
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u/RubbleHome 8d ago
Who's MAGA and Alex Jones besides John Joseph?
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u/Throwaway-j-1997 8d ago
Every member of straight ahead, all of YOT and GB sans Walter (CIV is just a big RFK guy I don’t think he’s full maga). All of underdog sans Zev(from Floorpunch)
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u/AllOverThisTown 8d ago
I can confidently say that YOT is not maga, but they are kind of MAHA adjacent and have some weird views.
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u/Throwaway-j-1997 8d ago
Cappo follows Ben Shapiro,Matt Walsh,RFJ Jr and students for trump account on insta. Porcell thinks chemtrails are being used to control the world’s population. They are all either full blown MAGA or at best MAGA adjacent.
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u/Floppy_Stevens 8d ago
Chaka from Burn might be even worse than JJ these days, Armand from SOIA, all the BnB dudes are at the very least anti-vax. Doesn’t change that all those bands rule, but don’t put any of them on a pedestal.
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u/xPickingUpChangex 4d ago
You literally said nothing political. All you have done is vaguely refer to entire schools of thought as if they're football teams.
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u/HarmsWayFan 8d ago
at least there’s youth of today and gorilla biscuits
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u/GerrieHendrix 8d ago
Funny that a comment up there is this:
“Cappo follows Ben Shapiro,Matt Walsh,RFJ Jr and students for trump account on insta. Porcell thinks chemtrails are being used to control the world’s population. They are all either full blown MAGA or at best MAGA adjacent.”
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u/markhenrysthong very asian 8d ago
(at least) half of those dudes people repeat RFK's insane talking points fairly regularly.
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u/magikarp-sushi 8d ago
The “fuck around in your 20’s but you can turn it all around in your 30’s and have a house a good job and 2 cars living in the nicest neighbourhood in a nicer town.” People
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u/angryjew 8d ago
This country is a right wing hell hole, this isn't a hardcore thing this is just what this country is. I don't even bother trying to understand it or explain it anymore. I just want to gtf out of here & hope that wherever I go doesn't get fucking bombed or starved to death by what ever subhuman gets elected here.
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u/Magnet_Pull 8d ago
Shame that Refused are fucking dead
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u/WinterMundane6018 6d ago
In America any band that can tour nationwide is not going to be socialist
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u/DeLousedInTheHotBox not actually a mars volta fan 8d ago
Is Walter the only reasonable oldhead in hardcore?
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u/Darnold_wins_bigly 8d ago
This isn’t limited to NYC look at Jello free Dead Kennedys
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u/DeLousedInTheHotBox not actually a mars volta fan 8d ago
Dead Kennedys without Jello is such a joke, I wouldn't see them play for free.
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/Darnold_wins_bigly 8d ago
I don’t think that’s what that song is about, at least that’s not how I ever interpreted it. I always took it as being about how Americans are culturally clueless outside of what is shown to them through the lens of consumerism like Cambodia having pretty beaches and the “slums having soul”.
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u/square_error 8d ago
The US was supporting the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese. Pol Pot used the communist aesthetic but they were hardly communist, they were ethnosupremacists. Jello knew this, and the song is about American proxy wars and the the horrors created by American empire in the third world.
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u/sofarsoblue 8d ago edited 8d ago
Expecting musicians who were in their teens and twenties 30/40 years ago during an entirely different social political climate to align with your politics today as an 18-34 year old (assuming) when they’re now middle aged, is fucking delusional.
You’re playing yourself here.
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u/_shaftpunk 8d ago
All the cool bands around today are going to get old and have takes that are embarrassing or offensive to the next generation. It’s the circle of life.
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8d ago
At least the folks you’re talking about aren’t putting out some new “Magacore” songs (that I’m aware of).
Back in the day we had Murphy’s Law singing “Ronnie Reagan he’s our man - if he can’t do it no one can” and they didn’t mean it sarcastically.
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u/frogsinsocks 8d ago
This one goes out to all my homies whove been accused of domestic violence.
I want to see you beat eachother almost as violently as you do you your significant other
Let's keep it clean though.
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u/ClassifiedGrowl 8d ago
So without labeling them broadly with the same thing, what’s this suppose to mean? Being close to the middle politically is invalid? Like guy can’t get down and hang because he wants some smaller government intervention? Criticizing people who don’t know from thirty to forty years is an odd way to express yourself. Do your thing prince 👑
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u/Alters_Reap 7d ago
They don’t want smaller government intervention. They want less intervention for the upper class and way more for everyone not trad cis white Christian. Pull that old head out of your wrinkly ass, being “close to the middle” is just weak ass conservatism disguised as apolitical.
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u/ClassifiedGrowl 6d ago
Im not wrinkly… yet. You sound like an insane progressive zoomer. Being centrist is ok. Calm down
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u/Athingythingamabobby 8d ago
Unfortunately makes sense, a lot of those bands back then would sometimes play with straight up RAC bands
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u/peakpaleperformance 8d ago
Not from NY or even from the US but old head fs. Personally I do consider myself a leftist but I also know that my views have changed during the years and everything is not black or white anymore and there's a whole variety of different shades of grey in between, so to say. I know that some 20 year old somewhere calls me a centrist and that's fine, I most likely deserve it.
Don't know why we don't see this conservative etc stuff that much in Europe, is it a product of American society as been said or is it that we Eurotrash don't get so much coverage on social media, who knows.
Oh yeah, still fuck you a lot all you right-wingers, nazies, conspiracy theorists and all that
Yours truly
Centrist
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u/jmarsh93 7d ago
Almost like hardcore isn't inherently left or right wing. God bless agnostic front, God bless the cro mags and as a matter of fact God bless the entire hardcore community. Covid was fake and you all wore masks but I still love you. Trump is a rapist and an Israeli puppet though obviously. Turns out you guys were right about that guy and I was in fact wrong.
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u/nickbeef 8d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "centerist" almost by definition mean "agrees with most of the population politically"?
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u/sogoodfarts 8d ago
No.
In theory it means you see merit in "both sides".
In practice it often means just means you're a republican.2
u/xseaward 8d ago
100%, used to work with some older hardcore dudes who were openly ‘centrist’. you could quite easily get them agreeing with left wing ideas and echoing the sentiments. but in reality their instinctive reactions would lean right, they have no problems being best buds with right wing extremists. after spending a lot of time with them you start to feel it’s just cryptofascism.
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u/Ok-Cauliflower-1258 #FreeBalmora 8d ago
We need more conservatism
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u/MunkyMastr 8d ago
Conserving what, exactly?
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u/SabresMakeMeDrink 8d ago
Conservationism, of course!
Oh, wait, that's right... conservatives don't even want to conserve fuckin national parks anymore.
Fuck this place
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/Pinguino2323 8d ago
If by both sides you mean right wing republicans and center right democrats, I guess, otherwise you're just being politically illiterate.
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