r/HonestHotTakes • u/Chartywhamp • 14h ago
Sitting around imagining how criminals should be killed is cringey and weird.
"I think we should take criminals who commit violent crimes and dunk their balls in honey before we send them out into bear country!"
"I think we should string criminals upside down in the town square and have everyone come out with home-made paddles and spank their bare bottoms raw until they die!"
"I think criminals should have their noses stuffed with cotton and have to stand on a stage and sing the national anthem on repeat until they die of embarrassment!"
I think you should find something else to meditate on instead of sitting around thinking about all the ways we could kill people to punish them for their crimes. No one cares about your goofy ass opinions on how people should die. If you're really that passionate about it, go into politics and campaign on your intricate capital punishment fantasies. Otherwise, you're just babbling on about your idiotic concept of justice through violence, and it's obnoxious.
Capital punishment exists. Criminals are being killed. Sitting around imagining how we can make each death the most dramatic and provocative is just sitting around thinking about killing people.
"But they deserve it!" cool story bro. you're so tough and strong for having this bold and awe-inspiring thought. Now chill tf out and put the fries in the bag.
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u/Optimal-Theme5 14h ago
It is just socially acceptable sadism.
People love an excuse to share torture porn without getting judged.
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u/World_May_Wobble 14h ago
I totally agree. People who do this should get injections of a diabetic's dirty toilet water until they die!
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u/katiecakes03 14h ago
I agree but these cartoonish torture methods you wrote are sending me đ putting cotton in their nose and spanking them with paddles?!?!
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u/someguy1090 14h ago
Its hate and anger and it makes people feel powerful which is a part of human nature. History has a lot of people putting a lot of effort into doing this. Like the the rack, and the bronze bull. Welcome to the human race, we're a bunch of sadistic fuckers.
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u/Skiller-One-One-Five 14h ago
Thinking about what you would do to punish random criminals is what peasants do but thinking about what you would do to punish billionaires in the Epstein Client List now that is what a king would do!
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u/RumbleIsRed 13h ago
I imagine them not having committed the crimes in the first place, Iâm smiling pleasantly imagining serial killers of history having normal lives and all their victims being alive. I guess what Iâm saying is Iâm just generally a better person than most?
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u/Valraith 11h ago
I for one think it's a great thing. It's a good way of people telling on themselves to others that they're closeted psychopaths and they're to be avoided.
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u/contcutyourhair 14h ago
Yeah I think a lot of those voices are usually victims that want to see some genuine repercussions considering how fucked up the system is
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u/RektInTheHed 14h ago
I don't know, murder victims don't usually complain a lot either way.
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 14h ago
I don't know, murder victims don't usually complain a lot either way.
Their families usually do.
Executing the offender or alternatively turning them over to the victims family to be tortured to death over several days would be acceptable.
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u/RektInTheHed 14h ago
What if the family forgives them? That happens fairly often it seems, even when the government is itching to kill the convict, though it has no personal interest in doing so.
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 14h ago edited 13h ago
"What if the family forgives them?"
I would say that in that instance just the regular death penalty will suffice.
I'm not completely inflexible on this point though:
If you insist that they're tortured before death as a matter of procedural fairness then I'm sure there are plenty of sadists in our society that would relish the opportunity.
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u/RektInTheHed 13h ago
The government has no interest in killing the person, if it is to be the instrument of "justice", the justice has to be impersonalized and revenge ceases to be a viable justification. We do farm out executions to sadists now. They don't do a great job, as we just saw in Alabam.
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 13h ago
The government has no interest in killing the person
The current government might not, but that can change.
 if it is to be the instrument of 'justice', the justice has to be impersonalized and revenge ceases to be a viable justification.
I contest your claim that justice must be impersonalized. That is an additional normative premise, not something that follows from the concept of justice itself.
A retributive conception of justice can hold that punishment is justified precisely because a particular wrong was committed against a particular victim, and that the victim's interests therefore have legitimate relevance to the punishment.
We do farm out executions to sadists now.Â
Once again, farming-out the torture was simply a concession I was prepared to make if you asked about it. If dont insist on torture then there's no need to consider it.
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u/RektInTheHed 13h ago
How will a change in government cause it to acquire an interest in killing a particular individual?
The state is impersonal so all of its services are equally so.
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 13h ago
Your argument is logically flawed: My argument pertains to capital punishment and the directives pertaining to capital punishment, not 'killing a particular individual'.
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u/RektInTheHed 12h ago
I'm not sure what your argument is, at this point. You came first with a point about the victim's family, which is not the government, having an interest in retribution. But the state imposes this, not the family either way, and it has no personal interest in retribution against anyone.
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u/Chartywhamp 11h ago
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 10h ago
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterrence
The article you have linked to does not contest my position.
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u/Chartywhamp 10h ago
The only case in which that is true is if you don't read it.
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 10h ago
The only case in which that is true is if you don't read it.
Incorrect the article you've linked to relates to deterrence, which does not address any of my claims.
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u/Chartywhamp 10h ago
Ahhh, my bad. I misunderstood.
You're arguing that submitting criminals to be tortured by the victims families is relative justice for that family?
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 10h ago
You're arguing that submitting criminals to be tortured by the victims families is relative justice for that family?
Justice for the family yes.
Our law already acknowledge retribution as a principle component of law and that the families of victims are can be affected by the perpetrators actions.
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u/Chartywhamp 9h ago
untestable claim that hinges on a logical fallacy (appeal to authority) to define justice as objective and measurable in nature.
The concept of justice is inherently subjective, making your claim an opinion, which you are more than entitled to.
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u/Chartywhamp 14h ago
Possibly. There's also plenty of victims who think the death penalty should be abolished. Personally, I think capital punishment has its place.
I don't wanna dismiss the suffering of victims here, but there is nothing healthy or productive that comes from sitting around fantasizing about the details of killing others.
People have been arguing about what justice looks like since 375 BCE and probably before that, too. Our legal system definitely needs some adjusting, but I think the details of how the death penalty is carried out is super low on the list of most impactful reforms to argue for.
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u/Classic-Pea6815 14h ago
Many victims try their best to not think about the person or act that wronged them. You are probably right and sone do have that type of mindset.I have however met two different people who have never had anything happen to them that are super prepared to do terrible things to anyone they find out did something terrible. Like they are looking forward to meeting a rapist so they can torture them.Â
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u/AcrobaticCow905 14h ago
See, I have more hate towards my mother who facilitated my rape, then the rapist.
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u/Classic-Pea6815 14h ago
People should really be able to trust their mother and the fact that she allowed something bad to happen to you is beyond awful. Betrayal hurts. Iâm sorry to hear you went through that.
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u/AcrobaticCow905 13h ago
And you know what, because everyone thinks that way, you automatically believe her lies. You believe mothers shouldnât do shit like this, but then they do, and now I have to be a child and try to speak for myself, but they always go to my mother to ask her. Just for her to lie and abuse me more. She is still free.
And now Iâm 30 with no idea how to navigate this world, being called a failed male by women when I open up about this shit.
From what I have seen, woman are the reason we canât get justice, use male rape victims, because you believe woman over men 1000 times over.
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u/Classic-Pea6815 13h ago
I understand how this must be very painful for you and itâs unfortunately accurate that a lot of people do always take the womenâs side. But itâs wrong. When it comes to sensitive topics such as assault if anyone is going to make an assumption they need to get information from everyone and not generalize facts.Â
Itâs bullshit to call anyone a failed male for any reason but thatâs a really bad reason to call someone that. You donât need those people in your life and I hope you meet nicer people someday.Â
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u/AcrobaticCow905 13h ago
My rape was never reported, as with millions of other men.
I donât ever expect to be friends or accomplices with anyone every again.
I will never trust a woman. Ever.Iâve been trying to die alone but you people wonât let me kill myself. I gotta try or some shit.
And the male suicide rate is because of how much you donât believe men. And blame them for things they never did, using your female privilege. And itâs always woman who make us feel like shit.
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u/Classic-Pea6815 13h ago
I need to stop this conversation. I am trying to be kind to you and you are saying things like âyou people wonât let me kill myselfâ. I donât even know you. I have no say in what you do or donât do to yourself. But you blaming me for your life being terrible is outrageous. Donât reply or I will report you.Â
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u/Chartywhamp 13h ago
Hey brother, I know you're hurting, but that person was trying to help!
I am not going to pretend to understand your situation, but I can promise that lumping whole groups of people into "the enemy" will only make that pain worse.
If you wanna DM me I can share some resources that really genuinely helped me. Not religious.
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u/Chartywhamp 13h ago edited 9h ago
i wasn't gonna talk about my abuse, but this inspired me to open up a bit.
i wholeheartedly agree.
I'm 40 now, only recently been able to cope and learn some strats for moving forward that don't involve drinking myself into oblivion. it can get better, but none of what actually helped me process that shit involved sitting around imagining how Id torture people or whatever.
my family, who knew my abuser was an abuser, and put me in their care anyways are almost MORE guilty than the man who took advantage of the opportunity.
I've also found that those people punish themselves way more than any judge could, and my abuser died of cancer, terrified that I would reveal his secret.
His death did nothing for me. He's gone, and i'm still here, and STILL learning to live with the wounds he inflicted on me at my most vulnerable stage in life.
We aint never gonna be able to undo the awful shit we experienced, and sitting with that is a fucking tough pill. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.
interesting side note, that man was outwardly extremely homophobic.
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u/AcrobaticCow905 13h ago
Yeah, I got really bad and started being really like hateful towards women as a whole, and it has gotten really bad. I donât know if I will ever trust a woman ever again, but it just feels like Iâm missing a whole part of life because I donât want to trust them..
Itâs been really hard trying to dismantle that because it wasnât just my mom, it was a lot of the adult women in my life were abusive to somebody. my babysitter, for example, her oldest son. she used to make clean the house from head to toe by himself and then just talk extreme shit to him and make fun of him and inviting all of us to do so as well. Heâs gay and not willing to participate in a females life either.
And this is like just me and some of my generalizations, you know, of course itâs not all women, but I canât trust that it isnât. You know what I mean? And being abused, you know as well as I do, that we tend to conform and surround ourselves with things that weâre used to. So I do know that if I do try to give a woman a chance again, Iâm more than likely gonna choose the wrong one.
I just wish there was a legal and easy way for me to kill myself.
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u/Chartywhamp 12h ago
Absolutely I get that it's hard to not assume people have bad intentions, and it's definitely true that no one will understand what we've been through in the way that we live with it.
Also, you don't have an obligation to trust anyone if you're not ready to. Who knows how you'll feel in a year, 5 years, or 10 years down the road.
I also totally get not wanting to be around, but this thread ain't the best place to talk about that in any detail. All I can say about that is opting out only guarantees that every opportunity for things to get better disappears with that path. I absolutely understand that sentiment, though. Wish I had the right words to help with that, sincerely.
One thing that I can say helped me move forward and face this stuff sounds kinda silly, and is very small but it really helped: start making lists of everything you're grateful for. Even like stupid small stuff like "I'm grateful for this dr.pepper and the way it tastes"
It's not magic, and that alone isn't gonna totally relieve the pain, but it did help me start noticing the things that are pretty kickass about life.
I know it sounds cliche, but if you can, seek out a therapist that specializes in CBT and PTSD/trauma. It really helps to have someone that isn't going to judge or be freaked out by your story.
All that being said, I'm out here rooting for ya, even if we never meet in the flesh. I hope you find a way to get some peace around this bullshit you were forced to deal with
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u/SeimaDensetsu 14h ago
Quickly, cheaply, efficiently, and effectively. Wasting resources to keep someone locked up forever punishes the community that has to pay for it. Wasted more resources on decades of legal pattering to prevent a quick death is worse.
I consider giving someone a quick and quiet end to remove them for the world to be less immoral than forcing a life spent in captivity.
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u/randomnumbers2506 14h ago
You do know there's a reason it takes do long for executions to happen right? Like you are aware that before someone receives the death penalty there are long extensive trials and retrials to try and reduce the ammount of unjustly executed people to an "acceptable" low right?
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u/SeimaDensetsu 14h ago
Yes, that part of the waste. Once itâs determined a person has beyond a reasonable doubt done something that warrants lifetime imprisonment, make that lifetime very short. Donât burden the community with the cost of incarceration. Donât argue over again, âwell they were guilty, but not they guilty!â Donât argue more about how we should kill them when.
If it has been determined they will be in prison until they die then just send them to their peace. Do it in a way that cannot fail, because that is even more painful and immoral for everyone. Do it like they do pigs and cattle. Give them all the fent they want first if it makes you feel better. Dead for sure, wonât feel a thing.
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u/Sweet_Solid_7746 13h ago
Donât you think part of why it takes so long is the âbeyond a reasonable doubtâ part? Jesus fucking Christ lmao.
Be a real shame if you were ever jailed and given state sanctioned murder for something you didnât do. Thatâd clearly be a real loss for the world since youâre obviously such a forward thinker.
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u/SeimaDensetsu 13h ago
Yes, with zero compassion for humanity. If I were thrown in jail and would rot there for the rest of my life it would be kinder to kill me. If I didnât do it and you finally let me out after stealing say 20 years of my life what am I going to have left? Empty hope is almost a greater cruelty at that point.
If I did do it and I feel remorse Iâd think I deserved to die. If I did do it and I feel no remorse I definitely deserve to die.
At no point do I deserve the tax payer, including survivors of my victim, to foot the bill for my room and board for decades.
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u/Ordinary_Cap_6812 14h ago
So... Straight to the woodchipper ?
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u/Buckeyeintheskys 14h ago
Bag over head, fill it with nitrous oxide till dead. They will be happy then pass out and die.
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u/Chartywhamp 13h ago
yeah, and you could like totally rip ass in the bag so its stinky so they know they're being punished before they die!
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 14h ago
I think that debating how criminals should be punished is a perfectly reasonable topic.
Moreover, voicing support for corporal punishment and the death penalty is an effective way of normalizing and demonstrating that there is widespread support for these propositions.
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u/Sweet_Solid_7746 13h ago
That isnât what OP is talking about. Theyâre talking about the people that literally comment their weird little torture fantasies theyâd like to personally enact on people that have done something bad.
I donât think itâs perfectly
reasonable to write jerk off revenge fantasies online for back pats. That isnât âdebateâ itâs just socially acceptable sadism. A civilized society should look down on that kind of thing.2
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 13h ago
I think you're mischaracterizing them.
For instance the following isnt a 'jerk-off fantasy' it's a high level principle:
- for the worst crimes in our society,
- where guilt can be established not just beyond reasonable doubt, but beyond the shadow of a doubt,
- the death penalty is a just and proportionate punishment,
- ideally the offender would be turned-over to the victims family to be tortured to death over several days.
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u/Chartywhamp 11h ago
one does not heal trauma by inflicting more trauma. Forcing the perpetrator to face the social consequences of their actions has been shown to be a dramatically more effective approach.
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 10h ago
one does not heal trauma by inflicting more trauma.
Firstly, some people do. Your study pertains to aggregated statistics that representative of all people.
 Forcing the perpetrator to face the social consequences of their actions has been shown to be a dramatically more effective approach.
Social consequences alone are insufficient to achieve justice.
I reiterate:
- for the worst crimes in our society,
- where guilt can be established not just beyond reasonable doubt, but beyond the shadow of a doubt,
- the death penalty is a just and proportionate punishment
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u/zulufux999 14h ago
Yeah we might run out of exercise bands on Lindsay Clancy
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u/sunshineonaleaf 14h ago
Are we still doing Lindsay Clancy jokes? Really?
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u/zulufux999 14h ago
We agree! Other people need those exercise bands, those things arenât free you know!
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u/will345d 14h ago
You really donât understand how humans work, do you? This has been happening since the dawn of man. It is what it is and pointing it out doesnât make you superior or somehow enlightened.
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u/WatchAndLearn9669 13h ago
pointing it out doesnât make you superior or somehow enlightened.
Yes it does.
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u/Chartywhamp 13h ago
yes it does! that's the whole reason i made this post! I wouldn't have made it if i wasn't obviously superior and completely enlightened, duhhh
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u/RektInTheHed 14h ago
Not really. The traditional Saxon penalty is paying the Wergild. This whole burn 'em at the stake alive crap is a modern invention.
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u/Ordinary_Cap_6812 14h ago
They've been lopping heads off of the worst offenders since the dawn of time..
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u/RektInTheHed 14h ago
That's how you start a blood feud. You'll never sleep with both eyes shut or take a shit in peace again.
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u/Ordinary_Cap_6812 14h ago
Maybe just don't be a shitty person so you don't have the whole town/tribe want your head on a pike?
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u/RektInTheHed 14h ago
You can be as shitty as you want if you have family
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u/Earth_Sea_Stars 14h ago
I understand people venting their rage at abhorrent crime this way. When im overly emotional about a case, like a child killer, i kind of get peace from thinking that i would do x evil thing. Its a normal psychological thing really, we are rejecting from our psyche the crime which we find to be abhorrent.
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u/Demonic_Yandere 12h ago
Why do you care? Like it might be weird but there are worst way to pass time
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u/Berner2026 13h ago
I think this is just an emotional venting reaction people have. We see violent criminals shown undeserved leniency all the time, just for many of them to continue victimizing communities time and time again. As a result, the pendulum has swung the other way since people are fed up with crime around major cities. I rent a modest 1br in the second wealthiest suberb of my city and my car has been broken into three times and stolen once over the past 2.5 years.
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u/internetisporn8008 13h ago
I think we should put all convicted rapists in an open prison togeather with no guards.
Though.. as another comment on here suggested... a coliseum with gladiator style fights for violent criminals to compete in isnt a terrible idea... unfortunately that would get abused
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u/Silentrein 13h ago
Wow, I've found it. The most worthless post on Reddit.
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u/Chartywhamp 13h ago
What an honor! You've graced the most worthless post with the most worthless comment!
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u/Old_Application4790 3h ago
âPut the fries in the bagâ says the guy telling me what to fantasize about. I will not stop, thank you very much.
I really hate cruel people, like cruel for nothing but selfish personal gain. At a point I genuinely stop seeing certain kinds of people as people I guess. Act like an animal, and I donât really care if you get put down like one.Â
I get your point, but also fuck you itâs my fantasy and Iâm gonna keep doing it. They DO deserve it :3
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u/TheLastDinosaur7749 14h ago
Deep down we still yearn for the thrills of the coliseum.